MP's to debate EU referendum
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15354203

Whilst I don't think the motion will be passed because its another one of the issues MP's think the public shouldn't have a say in just in case they come to the wrong conclusion it might be interesting to see if Ed Milliband wants to try and give the government a bloody nose.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

My two points

A. I hope they give us the vote

B. I hope we vote to get the feck out of the EU

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

what's to debate ? ,anyway i seem to remember that we were promised a referendum a few years back by labour ,isn't it about time that promise was honoured even if it is by a different government

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Constitutional matters should be resolved using a referendum. They tend to be matters that are difficult to or cannot be overturned. You should not allow an one off parliamentary setting to decide something that a later parliament cannot change.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Cameron is showing what he thinks of public pressure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...eferendum.html

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

As if MPs of any variety are going to vote to have their trough taken away..

It'll happen about the time that pigs start taking flying lessons or until we can get the Army on our side.

Anglo-Saxon Spring anyone?

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Not a chance that it will happen - what do you want democracy. Your MP will do as he told,but not be YOU. Now is the time to tell him or her what you think, & remember what they did when you next vote. Me I am looking for the Flying Pig Party, as I expect MY MP( Johnathan Evans Cardiff north ) to keep his head well down.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Oddly on this matter the Liberal 'Democrats' have a bit to answer for.

They may have been able to point to the coalition agreement as an excuse for many of their other changes of direction, this time around not so much.

http://campaigns.libdems.org.uk/europe

Ignoring that the page can't spell referendum properly this would seem at odds with this.

I appear unable to find anything in the coalition agreement about this so can only surmise that Euro-sycophant Nick was threatened with the loss of his EU pension if he went along with this.

So Liberal Democrats, not especially liberal, and opposed to democracy when they're scared of the answer. Hope they all get wiped out in the next election in favour of a decent alternative.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Given the last time the UK population got to vote on the EU was in the mid seventies and they were voting for somethng totally different to what we have ended up with i fail to see how any government can justify the EU in it's current state. Give us a vote on the matter and allow us to really have a proper debate and weigh the current pro's and con's. Personally i loathe much of what the EU is and does on a daily basis and i would much rather we were out of the grand EU federal project, instead being part of a europe wide free trade and cooperation treaty.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

If we do have a referendum, we need to be told in plain clear English the pros and cons of leaving, so we can make a proper decision.

I think we should leave the EU, but if it makes us far worse of then I would say no.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Brillo blowing away the usual nonsense spouted about how we'll be cut out of trading with Europe if we leave the EU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...oB_BZnc#t=394s

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15382019

The big parties showing once again they are in touch with the people :rolleyes: and treat voters with contempt thinking they can't be trusted with the important questions.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

This whole "we will lose trade if we leave the EU" is and always has been a complete false argument and only hands ammunition to those of us who want out. Whilst i don't claim the tiny tiny minority of people i know on the net from the euro mainland are the majority view i have noticed a change of attitude amongst them towards the EU in the last couple of years.

Some of them used to be so enthusiastic about the EU it bordered on fanatacism at times and while they still favour it they are nowhere near as vocal as they once were. Others are out and out hostile now towards the EU and the euro as a single currency and say they want out as they only see further and greater problems down the line.

Whilst as usual the federal europe idea is great on paper it just isn't working in reality, despite the claims it doesn't level the playing field amongst member states. It doesn't help our economy's in someways i am certain it actually harms them. All these things need to be properly debated and discussed by all citizens in europe not just us and a consensus needs to be reached.

Here is the problem though given how many failed and past it politicians manage to find a new trough in the EU it isn't likely for the turkeys to give us the right to bring xmas forward anytime soon. Thats the crux for me the EU exists not for us normal citizens not really to benefit us but to benefit the political classes and allow them to keep jobs their own electorate decided they no longer deserved after getting kicked out in their own country.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15425256
That's more than likely going to be a big fat NO to a referendum then.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

'Did you honestly think they would allow the people that vote them in a referendum or a say in anything other than the election.

Come on there not that stupid :LOL:

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

well if they do defy cameron and vote for a referendum it looks like we may need a new government

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16094882

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

They will be required to resign from government jobs, if they have them, but not to resign as MPs. So any ministers or private secretaries who vote with the rebels ought to resign.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Presumably they will be expected to stand as an independent candidate (if at all) at the next elections as well?

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

No, they won't, unless their local constituency Conservative Association is so peeved with their activities that it chooses to deselect them as the Conservative candidate. Which, given the general level of Euroscepticism in the grassroots of the party, is highly unlikely.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

I hope they do defy Cameron and vote for a referendum ,because at the end of the day the MP's are supposed to representing the views of their constituents not those of Cameron

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

It's live now. Hague is on his feet at the moment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/...00/9434799.stm

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Oh how i wish we could be given the chance to have a vote, Unfortunately as the Government knows that we would vote "Get us to hell out" they would never allow us the vote.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

but come the next election we can vent our spleens and dump them in favour of those who oppose the eu .

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

It would be interesting to see a general election decided with Europe as the key issue but unfortunately it isn't going to happen. "It's the economy, stupid" ... almost always has been and almost always will be.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Seems to me that while the EU is battered and bloody would be absolutely the best time to make demands. Cameron talks the talk about repatriating powers from the EU but if he can't see the opportunity I have to doubt that he is sincere.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

yea fix the economy and end the cycle of bust and boom :)
followed by fix the economy and end the cycle of boom and bust :D

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

What would Cameron say in favour of the EU?

One of the problems I have with a referendum is the level of anger directed at the EU is matched by ignorance, on my part as well, of what the EU actually does. We see a lot of stories about the EU banning or changing the name of a multitude of things but I am not convinced by those stories, not least because they never come to pass. It reminds me of the Yes, Minster! episode where the Minster wilfully misinterprets a trivial EU mandate as 'banning the British sausage' in order to patriotically rail against it.

So what would those in favour of the EU say?

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

We had a referendum..it was reinterpreted by TPTB over time to suit themselves.Any further referendums would be treated the same. So let's save the money..it will only be wasted.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

It gives us somewhere we can dump our useless and/or possibly corrupt politicians. :erm:

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Austin Mitchell, fully paid-up member of the Labour Backbench Awkward Squad, just gave a rather good speech in favour of the motion, railing against the 'abomination of democracy' that is three main parties all whipping against the motion.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Lets see just how in touch with the public MP's are.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-uk-withdrawal

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Looks like i will be voting UKIP from now on.

http://www.ukip.org/

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Oh, come on! Did anyone really believe that we were ever going to get a referendum?

Seriously?

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

I believe that we should have the right to say if a government is not doing a good job for the people that voted them in, should have right to vote them out after 12 months.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

We might, but we were never going to get one today. The significance of today is the size of the Tory backbench rebellion.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

How do you propose that we do that Arthur?

Do you have a large military base in mind that we could ransack? ;)

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

I agree Chris, however whilst the snouts are still in the trough so to speak it is never going to happen though imo.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Cameron..

"He insisted he remained "firmly committed" to "bringing back more powers" from Brussels"

The man is either a fool or a liar. The whole structure of the treaty denies the 'bringing back of powers'.

I don't believe he's a fool. A puppet maybe but not a fool.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

An unconfirmed 81 according to the Times. That's over 25% of all Tory MPs. Big ouch if true...

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

I think this one thing more then any other so far has shown cameron to be nothng but a political oppurtunist. When labour didn't give us a referendum as they said they would he couldn't shut up about our right to have one and now when he has the chance to give us one he impose's a three line whip. Whatever happened to "listening to the people", "more open and free government" and "true democracy" they were all things he banged on about at one time or another but now seems more then happy to get the usual bout of amnesia about.

We were never going to get a vote on the matter with or without the whip not least because i think most mp's realised if they gave us one and we voted to leave it wouldn't be long before other countries would demand the same vote. Whole thing stinks to high hell and this is one more nail in any faith i had in this government to actually do any good rather then repeat the past ad infinitum :(.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Exactly.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Any party when in opposition will take a stance on a variety of topics that are in the public eye at the time and are the opposite of what the present government are pursuing .They promise much and then when in power change their tune.The EU is always one of those issues that an incoming government changes stance on, Tory or Labour.

I do not and never have expected ANY party that said it would have a referendum when it wins an election to actually organise a vote on the EU.

IF they did it would be worded in such a way that we would still end up with a vote to stay in the EU.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

I'm rather hoping that this issue puts the last nail in the coffin of the duplicitous Liberal Democrats.

They went as far as removing their campaign from their website, the one I linked earlier in this thread, and I've had a bit of a discussion with my own Lib Dem MP, ongoing.

The trouble is they can't remove the printed leaflets, these are a bit less easy to weasel out of with legalese over manifesto wording.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

I was under the impression that the government was totally against bullying, if that's the case they are hypocrites.

The government told its ministers that if they voted against the government, they would be sacked - bullying tactics.

When l stated that after 12 months, if the government were not doing a good job, they would be voted out.

If l am not wrong, when we start a new job, ain't you on a trial basis. Should be the same for the government.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Time to appoint you as the new leader of the country then but only on a trial basis.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Standard parliamentary procedure, practiced by all parties. MPs with Government jobs are expected to support the Government line in Parliament. If they can't, or won't, they are expected to relinquish their government job.

No, it shouldn't. We would have a new government every 12 months forever if the were the way it worked. Politicians are prone to short-term thinking as it is. Th last thing we need is parties governing with one eye constantly on the ballot box. They need to be free to take decisions that are in the longer-term good of the country even if they cause short term difficulty or unpopularity.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Does that include Labour should anyone be daft enough to vote them back in Arthur

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Oh i fully get the false promise thing that politicians have had going for ever and a day but in this day and age where your gob gets repeated non stop you would have thought they would no longer be so blatent in their contempt. Truth is the vast majority of voters in this country have never had the chance to express their feeling on the EU and until they do this just isn't going to go away.

If there is one thing i could stop tomorrrow about the EU it is their talk of democracy because they are not democratic at all people have no choice in the EU and on the odd occasion where they appear too if they don't vote right they will be voting until they do. Same as cameron he talks big on democracy but has no intention of giving us it and the other two are just as bad on this issue.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Have never voted for them, Would never vote for them in the future. I have always said they are not trust worthy and i still do.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

The EU seem happy to keep having referendums till they get the answer they want so why not play them at their own game?

https://submissions.epetitions.direc...etitions/20133

:D

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Signed :)

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Signed.:)

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Signed. And I'll not forget how my MP voted come the next mock election.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

signed
and voting ukip at next election

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Signed.

And 'advertised' on faceache...

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Signed

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Same here

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

No UKIP are not for me.:)

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Signed for what it's worth i would like to think it will do something but the realist in me knows it won't.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Because they have absolutely no chance of getting into power.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Well i can never sell my soul to the devil ie labour, I will never vote for the Lib Dem's there not trust worthy, So i have a choice of the Tories or UKIP i chose UKIP

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Well Sirius we live in a democracy and we are all entitled to vote for who we believe in and l respect your decision to vote for UKIP.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

It did not seem like it the way the Mp's colluded to stop us getting a vote on the EU. :(

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Yes what a pathetic bunch some of them are.:td:

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Fixed that for you mate ;)

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Not really pathetic. It just depends on your point of view. If you happen to be one of the corporate masters that pay for them to get re-elected then they're just fine and dandy. Sticking to the script and doing what they're paid for.

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

So the Greek Government has more balls than ours.

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16100341

Now if they say NO what happens next ????

Re: MP's to debate EU referendum
 

Actually i see it the other way ,no balls and no guts .A decision such as that is one for the government to make and stand by,basically the Greek PM has copped out and if it all goes pear shaped he will be blameless