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-   -   Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33681519)

Ignitionnet 30-09-2011 16:59
Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
So sayeth El Reg.

Quote:
Virgin Media is closing its outsourced call centre in Albert Dock, Liverpool, and "consolidating" its operations by shifting to an existing site in Swansea.

The telco said it hoped to "create a new in-house centre of excellence for customer management in Swansea".

VM's two sites are run by IBM and its contract partners Adecco and Manpower.

Staff at the centres are being told this afternoon about the Albert Dock closure and the move to Matrix Court, Swansea.

The headcount at the Liverpool office currently stands at 435 contractors, while Swansea has 680 people on its books.

BenMcr 30-09-2011 17:04
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Should point out this bit too:

Quote:
"Subject to consultation, all staff at the Swansea site with roles that map to Virgin Media’s existing organisational structure will transfer to Virgin Media under TUPE, with other roles to be discussed as part of the consultation," said VM.

Digital Fanatic 30-09-2011 18:04
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/09/1.gif

muppetman11 30-09-2011 18:35
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I really hate this current economic climate , is there ever going to be good news , coming in the same week as the BAE job cuts. I hope nobody on here will be affected by this.

vmfriend 30-09-2011 18:41
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 35307703)
Should point out this bit too:
How many people, in reality, can move/would want to move from Liverpool to Swansea, it's not really a commutable distance.

BenMcr 30-09-2011 18:44
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Directly employed VM people may be able to Knowsley, or Wythenshawe. Also Virgin are still recruiting Mobile Customer Service staff at Wythenshawe so IBM employed people may be able to apply for those roles

Saying that of course it's going to be a difficult time for those affected, as it always is when a building closes

vmfriend 30-09-2011 18:45
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
There was a comment on El Reg about job losses at Knowsley as well.

Edit : actually depends on how you read it, it might mean jobs available :-/

freeair 30-09-2011 18:52
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
In this current economic climate feel sorry for those affected but I guess that's the risk when employed as a contractor.
Good luck to all affected.

Peter_ 30-09-2011 19:09
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Some more about it from the Liverpool echo.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-29515192/

Sirius 30-09-2011 19:17
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
My thoughts are with those about to loss there jobs:(

Digital Fanatic 30-09-2011 19:23
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
BBC News:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-15130211

Quote:
Virgin Media is to close its call centre at Liverpool's Albert Dock, it has announced.

Work handled by the centre, which employs 435 staff, will be transferred to its site in Swansea, south Wales.

Virgin said those staff it employed directly in Liverpool could be redeployed to Swansea or at sister sites in Manchester or Knowsley.

A spokesman for the company said a 90-day consultation period was now under way.

The current sites in Liverpool and Swansea are operated by IBM and their contract partners Adecco and Manpower.

The consolidated base in Swansea will move all operations in-house.

Of the 680 posts at the current Swansea site, it is understood that at least 600 will remain.

Sirius 30-09-2011 19:37
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35307785)
Some more about it from the Liverpool echo.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-29515192/
Hope you find some where m8 and if you get one of the jobs at Concord nip down stairs and have a chat.

---------- Post added at 18:37 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35307793)
Sad news m8

Sephiroth 30-09-2011 23:07
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I hope you guys here make it throughto somewhere good.

Tech_Boy 30-09-2011 23:45
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Sorry to all the guys and girls loosing their jobs in Liverpool, I am amazed that it took them so long to close Albert dock.
It is a listed building, with no room for expansion, and was costing a fortune to run and rent.

Matrix Ct has room for expansion, and is owned by VM, when I "Left (pushed, that's a whole different story regarding taking Broadband support away from us, and giving us the truly dire ADSHell to support )" half the building was mothballed.

VM have lost a very large number of the "old heads" from Swansea due to a number of inept decisions and idiotic Moronpower actions, quite a few are now working with me in Bridgend. Most of us knew the network inside and out, and could spot a potential outage without having to book pointless engineers (if there was an efficient way of doing something or a Telewest way, the efficient way always got binned).

Good luck to VM, in finding staff, it seems like half of Swansea has worked there at one time or another, and wouldn't ever go back.

Harryn9000 01-10-2011 14:09
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
feel sorry for the staff who work at albert dock. any time i had a problem with my service majority of the time retentions put me through to liverpool. being from liverpool was perfect for me as i could understand the staff clearly unlike india hope most of them find jobs locally in the north west as it going to swansea everyday isn't viable for most ppl who work there as they are local to merseyside or north west area. stupid move by VM most vm staff in liverpool no what they are talking about unlike india.

denphone 01-10-2011 14:19
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35307789)
My thoughts are with those about to loss there jobs:(
l second that.

joglynne 01-10-2011 14:26
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35307789)
My thoughts are with those about to loss there jobs:(
I second that thought and I hope all the CF, VM Albert Dock, members get fixed up with alternative employment quickly. <hugs> to you all.

Maggy 01-10-2011 14:50
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I wish them and everyone else facing closures and job redundancy at this time all the luck in the world.:ghugs:

Digital Fanatic 01-10-2011 17:43
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Thanks guys :)

StuN 02-10-2011 11:26
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
The Albert Dock team are brilliant.
Thanks for all your help over the years

Mick Fisher 02-10-2011 14:17
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuN (Post 35308585)
The Albert Dock team are brilliant.
Thanks for all your help over the years
Ditto that.

Nopanic 03-10-2011 08:55
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Hopefully it will help those far too good to be in a call centre to move to something more technically and help them realise their potential.

The job market being so crap, to be honest I'd be happy to see them all in work for now .. so many families, mortgages, some people will get nice pay outs, if redundancy is given .. but I'd rather have a job ..

AndyCalling 04-10-2011 01:51
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
This is upsetting and I wish all employees the best of luck. To any companies in Liverpool reading this; You would do well to hire VM support staff, their UK people are some of the very best I've ever called.

On a practical note, I personally would pay an extra pound or two a month to keep Liverpool office open and retain their valuable support. Am I alone here folks?

Mick Fisher 04-10-2011 14:22
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyCalling (Post 35309716)
This is upsetting and I wish all employees the best of luck. To any companies in Liverpool reading this; You would do well to hire VM support staff, their UK people are some of the very best I've ever called.

On a practical note, I personally would pay an extra pound or two a month to keep Liverpool office open and retain their valuable support. Am I alone here folks?
I'd go for that especially if it meant getting rid of the awful off-shored support that let both VM and it's Subs down so badly.

RichardCoulter 04-10-2011 17:15
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I really do think that it is counter productive to send call centres offshore. Yes, the overheads are cheaper and the staff easier to manage, but, it takes much longer to sort out issues as many people can't understand what they are saying.

In many cases, they reach the end of their script and book an engineer unneccessarily. I dread to think how much that has cost the company.

This latest sad news about Albert Dock just goes to show how challenging the current economic climate is for all businesses at the moment. As a company director, I have had to make some difficult decisions to improve efficiency and implement austerity measures. Many forecasters are predicting that it will get worse still. :Yikes:

The best advice I can give to the remaining staff is what I told our managers to say at the latest team briefing. Keep your head down and work hard whilst remembering how important the attraction of new and the retention of old customers is.

VM, like the main industry that I am involved with, in the main offers a luxury product that people can live without.

All the best to anyone unfortunate enough to lose their job. If you are affected, please don't take it personally. It is true to say that management use situations like this to get rid of any dead wood, but, it is also inevitable that many decent experienced people lose their jobs too.

Times like this are just as upsetting for management, but tough decisions have to be made to ensure the long term survival of the company for the sake of everybody.

Nopanic 05-10-2011 08:49
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35309974)
I really do think that it is counter productive to send call centres offshore. Yes, the overheads are cheaper and the staff easier to manage, but, it takes much longer to sort out issues as many people can't understand what they are saying.

In many cases, they reach the end of their script and book an engineer unneccessarily. I dread to think how much that has cost the company.

This latest sad news about Albert Dock just goes to show how challenging the current economic climate is for all businesses at the moment. As a company director, I have had to make some difficult decisions to improve efficiency and implement austerity measures. Many forecasters are predicting that it will get worse still. :Yikes:

The best advice I can give to the remaining staff is what I told our managers to say at the latest team briefing. Keep your head down and work hard whilst remembering how important the attraction of new and the retention of old customers is.

VM, like the main industry that I am involved with, in the main offers a luxury product that people can live without.

All the best to anyone unfortunate enough to lose their job. If you are affected, please don't take it personally. It is true to say that management use situations like this to get rid of any dead wood, but, it is also inevitable that many decent experienced people lose their jobs too.

Times like this are just as upsetting for management, but tough decisions have to be made to ensure the long term survival of the company for the sake of everybody.
You really like to talk about yourself don't you ..

StuN 05-10-2011 13:11
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Actually Richard, you couldn't be further from the truth.
Statistics show that when there's a recession, people actually upgrade their media services as they don't go out as much.

Peter_ 05-10-2011 14:03
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35309974)

VM, like the main industry that I am involved with, in the main offers a luxury product that people can live without.
Broadband has not not been classed a luxury for a very long time as the is such a high demand which can be met by the different ISP's out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35309974)
All the best to anyone unfortunate enough to lose their job. If you are affected, please don't take it personally. It is true to say that management use situations like this to get rid of any dead wood, but, it is also inevitable that many decent experienced people lose their jobs too.
You have no idea of the kind of skill sets that will be lost when this centre closes and any so called "dead wood" are quickly weeded out by virtue of the targets that need to be attained and maintained so you cannot equate this to your business or many others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35309974)
Times like this are just as upsetting for management, but tough decisions have to be made to ensure the long term survival of the company for the sake of everybody.
Times like this are never upsetting for management and most companies find decisions like this all to easy to make.

RichardCoulter 05-10-2011 14:46
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nopanic (Post 35310352)
You really like to talk about yourself don't you ..
A perfect example of dead wood. Why would VM want to employ someone who speaks to customers like that and get rid of a valued team member instead? In my experience a period on reduced rate Jobseekers Allowance is often the best cure for such attitudinal problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuN (Post 35310447)
Actually Richard, you couldn't be further from the truth.
Statistics show that when there's a recession, people actually upgrade their media services as they don't go out as much.
Yes, you do have a point to an extent, but the economic experts say that the economy is set to worsen. Pay TV V feeding your family- no competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35310488)
Broadband has not not been classed a luxury for a very long time as the is such a high demand which can be met by the different ISP's out there.

Broadband is not an essential service for the vast majority of domestic users, indeed it has only been available in relatively recent times.

You have no idea of the kind of skill sets that will be lost when this centre closes and any so called "dead wood" are quickly weeded out by virtue of the targets that need to be attained and maintained so you cannot equate this to your business or many others.

It is unfortunate when those with skills have to be let go, as, has happened in past recessions, the same people have often moved on and are no longer available.

Times like this are never upsetting for management and most companies find decisions like this all to easy to make.
Nonsense, I have met a number of VM senior management. They understand the human cost of such action, however necessary it may be.

It is important to remember that management have to maintain a public face, but also have a private side to their lives. I tend to meet them during social occasions and many have expressed their regret at having to make the various forthcoming efficiency measures.

Management are not devoid of all emotion and a little understanding would be appreciated.

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

Not sure what happened there lol, my responses appear to have been absorbed into your message masque!

Chris 05-10-2011 14:57
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310517)
A perfect example of dead wood. Why would VM want to employ someone who speaks to customers like that and get rid of a valued team member instead? In my experience a period on reduced rate Jobseekers Allowance is often the best cure for such attitudinal problems.
Richard, I for one am quite sick of your aggressive, bullying attitude towards members of this forum that are identifiable as virgin employees.

Let me make something crystal clear to you: they are here in their own time and are free to share their own opinions. This is something that members of this forum team established many years ago when some of us met senior management and it is something I believe that some, at least, of our members have established directly with their own managers.

Nopanic is not here to represent the company and he is not here to treat you as his customer. You are not here to get customer service from Virgin Media. If you want people to crawl and cringe all over you, by all means clear off and find another forum where your ego might get the stroking it seems to need.

And no, I will not be deleting this post, as I deleted my previous comments aimed at you, because this time I've taken the precaution of checking that the thread hasn't been closed while I've been composing it. Which is the only reason I withdrew my suggestion that you live in a fantasy universe. Etc.

So, off you go, you know where the 'whinge about this post' button is.

RichardCoulter 05-10-2011 15:21
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
My point was, that if s/he feels comfortable speaking to others like that in an internet forum, what is to be expected in the workplace?

It could be argued that s/he may be able to control their outbursts at work towards colleagues and/or customers. This would mean that the attitude is still present, but masked, and, in my view this is just as bad as the behaviour itself!

What on earth is to be gained by identifying oneself as a VM employee and then being rude to someone who has identified themselves as a VM personal and business customer?

As previously explained, we are in the worst recession in living memory. It is imperative that ALL staff do all they can to keep existing customers and attract new ones. If this does not happen, you can expect more redundancies at VM.

For the record, I am anti bullying and, in fact, am the director responsible for the anti bullying strategy within our organisation. Coincidentally, I am currently working from home and reviewing our treatment of LGBT staff.

And no, I don't need my ego, or anything else for that matter, to be stroked by yourself :D

I think it would be a good idea to keep this thread as a place for staff to share information and/or seek support who are affected (or think they may be affected by) the Albert Dock closure.

joglynne 05-10-2011 15:43
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Those of you who have had any dealings with me know that I am very non-confrontational but I have to put my oar in here and say that I have been disgusted at the last posters attitude to the VM staff that he has tried to bully in this thread.

I have often found, in my professional life, that some of the worst bullies I came across believed that they were above such behavior and seemed to assume that their approach was a form of "constructive criticism." It worries me that he is therefore "responsible for the anti bullying strategy within our organisation"

I certainly would not like to see the thread closed due to his attitude as the staff effected will need all our support as I understand that many are employed by a third party who has no incentive to help them find alternative employment within VM.

Peter_ 05-10-2011 15:51
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310541)

I think it would be a good idea to keep this thread as a place for staff to share information and/or seek support who are affected (or think they may be affected by) the Albert Dock closure.
As recognised Virginmedia staff we have a private section of this forum as per most other forums so we can go there instead as it is actually somewhere we can air our views and I thank the forum team for letting us have the use of that section until we are no longer employees, excluding anyone employed elsewhere.

RichardCoulter 05-10-2011 16:04
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 35310559)
Those of you who have had any dealings with me know that I am very non-confrontational but I have to put my oar in here and say that I have been disgusted at the last posters attitude to the VM staff that he has tried to bully in this thread.

I have often found, in my professional life, that some of the worst bullies I came across believed that they were above such behavior and seemed to assume that their approach was a form of "constructive criticism." It worries me that he is therefore "responsible for the anti bullying strategy within our organisation"

I certainly would not like to see the thread closed due to his attitude as the staff effected will need all our support as I understand that many are employed by a third party who has no incentive to help them find alternative employment within VM.
Bullying and reacting to rudeness are two completely different things.

You are correct in your understanding about the position of employees working in an outsourced capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35310563)
As recognised Virginmedia staff we have a private section of this forum as per most other forums so we can go there instead as it is actually somewhere we can air our views and I thank the forum team for letting us have the use of that section until we are no longer employees, excluding anyone employed elsewhere.
I didn't know that Masque! I think it's a really good idea to have a private place on the forum for VM staff to privately air views that may not necessarily
be appropriate in the public domain. Are those working for VM via agencies allowed to join, or is it just for staff directly employed by VM?

Peter_ 05-10-2011 16:23
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310572)


Are those working for VM via agencies allowed to join, or is it just for staff directly employed by VM?
That is up to the forum owners.

RichardCoulter 05-10-2011 16:30
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
OK, thanks for letting me know. The reason I ask is that we had a young man who started working in one of our Yorkshire venues as a glass collector whilst at college. He was 17 and, frankly, was a cheeky lippy young man! I took him under my wing and, upon leaving college, has turned out to be a thoroughly decent and well rounded young man.

I did have hopes of eventually training him up to be a venue manager, but, unfortunately, the recession has meant that we are now supernumerate with managers.

He found it difficult to get a job, but, eventually got a job working for VM through an agency (in Manchester I believe).

I put him in touch with VM as he has a keen interest in the company and it's products (bordering on obsessive lol). I'm sure he would want to join the employee only forum if he is allowed to as it would help him get to know people and allow him to indulge in his passion for VM!

He is openly gay, so I hope that doesn't cause any problems for him. I know there are now laws to protect the LGBT communities, but, in the real world, what is the VM record like in their treatment of gay staff?

Peter_ 05-10-2011 16:38
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310587)
He is openly gay, so I hope that doesn't cause any problems for him. I know there are now laws to protect the LGBT communities, but, in the real world, what is the VM record like in their treatment of gay staff?
They are treated as just another person as you would expect.

RichardCoulter 05-10-2011 16:53
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
That's good :)

I must get on with my work now, as I want to try and finish early this week as I am going to Wales for the weekend after a very stressful week :cool:

Russ 05-10-2011 16:59
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310541)
I think it would be a good idea to keep this thread as a place for staff to share information and/or seek support who are affected (or think they may be affected by) the Albert Dock closure.
Good idea. A great start is to keep comments about VM staff posting in their own time out of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310541)
Are those working for VM via agencies allowed to join, or is it just for staff directly employed by VM?
Those who can verify their employment with either a VM staff or contractor email address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310541)
I must get on with my work now, as I want to try and finish early this week as I am going to Wales for the weekend after a very stressful week
<fingers crossed>

(Please don't be the south, please don't be the south...)

</fingers crossed>

RichardCoulter 05-10-2011 17:33
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35310597)
Good idea. A great start is to keep comments about VM staff posting in their own time out of this thread.


Those who can verify their employment with either a VM staff or contractor email address.



<fingers crossed>

(Please don't be the south, please don't be the south...)

</fingers crossed>
As previously explained, my actions were in reaction to the instigation of rudeness from a VM employee.

Thanks for clarifying the details about the VM staff forum Russ, I shall let him know. Who does he contact to set this up?

We are going to Fontygary. Can you recommend any decent rated hotels around there? (my next job is to book something on the internet). I see you live in South Wales too. If you fancy, you would be most welcome to join us one afternoon or evening for drinks and something to eat.

Russ 05-10-2011 17:39
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
He can contact us on the team email.

Any further off-topic posts will be removed and infractions issued.

This thread is about Vm closing the Albert Dock office only.

Sirius 05-10-2011 17:47
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Previous part of post removed to comply with above


As for the loss of Albert dock i honestly feel this is a massive loss to customers who had a personal on shore service. I have had contact with those in Albert dock and it has always been good and my faults have always been correctly diagnosed and fixed swiftly, The same cannot be said of my constant battles with off shore faults. I honestly dread having to contact them as i find they never fix my problem and i end up requesting to be put through to a onshore office.

Paul 05-10-2011 21:01
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35310517)
A perfect example of dead wood. Why would VM want to employ someone who speaks to customers like that and get rid of a valued team member instead? In my experience a period on reduced rate Jobseekers Allowance is often the best cure for such attitudinal problems.
My cure for your attitude is removal.

If I see you aim one more insult at anyone, I will terminate your membership of this forum.

weesteev 06-10-2011 09:01
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
On Albert Dock, im devastated to hear of its closure but slightly heartened that the company is committed to keeping faults in the UK with the expansion of the Swansea site. Great bunch of guys based in Wales and I'm sure the new centre will be very successful but in the meantime my heart goes out to anyone affected by this news. I think this has been on the cards for some time, i went through the same pain in Scotland but was lucky enough to stay with the business and I hope that any affected in AD have the same opportunity.

:)

Russ 06-10-2011 09:48
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Thread closed while I clean up the posts from people who have ignored my above warning.

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

Thread reopened, and in case anyone missed it....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35310611)
He can contact us on the team email.

Any further off-topic posts will be removed and infractions issued.

This thread is about Vm closing the Albert Dock office only.
Don't test me on this, my frack hammer is dying to be wielded today...

LaineY 06-10-2011 15:12
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Sorry to hear about your news guys. All the best from the guys up north ;) (Scotland)

Peter_ 06-10-2011 15:28
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by weesteev (Post 35310979)
On Albert Dock, im devastated to hear of its closure but slightly heartened that the company is committed to keeping faults in the UK with the expansion of the Swansea site. Great bunch of guys based in Wales and I'm sure the new centre will be very successful but in the meantime my heart goes out to anyone affected by this news. I think this has been on the cards for some time, i went through the same pain in Scotland but was lucky enough to stay with the business and I hope that any affected in AD have the same opportunity.

:)
Unlikely that many if any will move or be relocated in another centre and the are two important elements that are only based at the Albert Dock and to lose those people will not be a good thing for the company but it is their decision.

Sirius 06-10-2011 17:08
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35311211)
Unlikely that many if any will move or be relocated in another centre and the are two important elements that are only based at the Albert Dock and to lose those people will not be a good thing for the company but it is their decision.
I take it your not going to go for any of the mobile jobs ?

Peter_ 06-10-2011 17:10
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35311267)
I take it your not going to go for any of the mobile jobs ?
What mobile jobs?

Sirius 06-10-2011 17:15
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35311270)
What mobile jobs?
There is supposed to be some at wythenshaw ?

PM sent

BenMcr 06-10-2011 20:24
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35311270)
What mobile jobs?
These ones

joglynne 16-11-2011 20:06
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I have just noticed this news report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-15756444

Quote:
MPs are urging Virgin Media to rethink plans to close its office in Liverpool's Albert Dock, leading to the loss of more than 400 jobs

Peter_ 24-11-2011 18:49
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
A little something from the CWU for you all to watch http://www.youtube.com/user/CWUTV#p/u/0/rHDh59dD218

joglynne 24-11-2011 19:12
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35334698)
A little something from the CWU for you all to watch http://www.youtube.com/user/CWUTV#p/u/0/rHDh59dD218
I hope that the YouTube vid garners lots of support. Petition signed and linked to my Facebook.

Nopanic 24-11-2011 20:09
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
That's crap .. Sorry

Mick Fisher 24-11-2011 20:41
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
A great vidthat would be funny if it weren't Oh so true.

Duly signed via the Google link.

Peter_ 24-11-2011 22:54
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nopanic (Post 35334762)
That's crap .. Sorry
So are the excuses given to us, I prefer honesty rather than lies.

Nopanic 25-11-2011 07:40
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35334875)
So are the excuses given to us, I prefer honesty rather than lies.
I mean it's not funny, you know I support you.

Peter_ 25-11-2011 07:54
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nopanic (Post 35334941)
I mean it's not funny, you know I support you.
I know that just using your post as a sounding board to emphasise my point.:)

I would prefer the truth from the company rather than them trying to pull the wool over our eyes but I know that will never happen as big business never work in that way, subterfuge is the tool of choice when going down the redundancy road.

Itshim 25-11-2011 09:56
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I am sorry sorry to here about any job loss in the UK . A backward step I feel in losing UK jobs to the far east. Are there any petitions out there ? or is it a done deal .
As with all big business its mushroom management.

Peter_ 25-11-2011 10:14
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35334964)
I am sorry sorry to here about any job loss in the UK . A backward step I feel in losing UK jobs to the far east. Are there any petitions out there ? or is it a done deal .
As with all big business its mushroom management.
The petition is via the link above.

RichardCoulter 25-11-2011 13:43
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
So, is it the case that everybody can keep their jobs if they are prepared to move to Swansea?

Pauls9 25-11-2011 15:07
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I've signed the petition - in the vain hope that VM will take notice.

By the way - I notice the CWU are calling for Richard Branson to stop the closure. I thought he had no connection with VM?

Peter_ 25-11-2011 15:17
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauls9 (Post 35335109)
I've signed the petition - in the vain hope that VM will take notice.

By the way - I notice the CWU are calling for Richard Branson to stop the closure. I thought he had no connection with VM?
He does not own Virgin Media but any bad publicity may prompt some action possibly.

Pauls9 25-11-2011 15:54
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35335114)
He does not own Virgin Media but any bad publicity may prompt some action possibly.
Let's hope so.

Digital Fanatic 25-11-2011 16:43
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335030)
So, is it the case that everybody can keep their jobs if they are prepared to move to Swansea?
If you are job matched, yes.

Pierre 25-11-2011 17:52
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35335114)
He does not own Virgin Media but any bad publicity may prompt some action possibly.
He doesn't own it, but he's still a large shareholder, and obviously Brand owner.

but it's irrelevant, if it has to shut, then it'll shut.

Peter_ 25-11-2011 18:02
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35335231)
He doesn't own it, but he's still a large shareholder, and obviously Brand owner.

but it's irrelevant, if it has to shut, then it'll shut.
He has approx 7/10% shares but does not have anything to do with running the business as it is still NTL/Telewest behind the facade.

RichardCoulter 26-11-2011 10:41
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35335204)
If you are job matched, yes.
So those people can keep their job if they choose to :)

What about those that aren't "job matched"? Will they be redeployed or retrained etc?

Chris 26-11-2011 10:50
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335569)
So those people can keep their job if they choose to *move home from Liverpool to Swansea*
There. I corrected your post by adding the extremely non-trivial information you somehow forgot to include.

Maggy 26-11-2011 12:55
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Can I ask if there was any suggestion of the costs of moving house being taken into account..It's not exactly cheap to move.:erm:

Digital Fanatic 26-11-2011 13:02
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335569)
So those people can keep their job if they choose to :)

What about those that aren't "job matched"? Will they be redeployed or retrained etc?
Not much of a choice for most, as only a tiny percentage will be able to move to Swansea as they will have family commitments etc in Liverpool. It's a fair distance to relocate to. Of course I'm not privvy to everyones plans around this.

Anyone who isn't job matched will be made redundant. They can apply for other roles within VM or any other company if they wish to, but there is no guarantee of a job at the end of it.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35335609)
Can I ask if there was any suggestion of the costs of moving house being taken into account..It's not exactly cheap to move.:erm:
There is a relocation package, yes.

Maggy 26-11-2011 13:13
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35335612)
Not much of a choice for most, as only a tiny percentage will be able to move to Swansea as they will have family commitments etc in Liverpool. It's a fair distance to relocate to. Of course I'm not privvy to everyones plans around this.

Anyone who isn't job matched will be made redundant. They can apply for other roles within VM or any other company if they wish to, but there is no guarantee of a job at the end of it.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------



There is a relocation package, yes.
Well it's not much but at least it should make the move easier.

As for everyone else I'm sorry for them all.Indeed my sympathies go to everyone else facing redundancies at the moment.

Chris 26-11-2011 13:21
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
The social cost of a long-distance job-move can be far higher than the basic financial cost of hiring a removal van and arranging house sale/purchase, though the emotional costs even of those things should not be under-stated.

I have taken the long-distance relocation option once before following a buy-out so I am well aware of the long-lasting implications, especially for those with families. I find the statement "they can move if they choose to" to be lacking in any understanding or empathy for the implications of it and I find the attachment of a smiley to that statement to be both highly patronising and, given the evident lack of understanding, misplaced in the extreme.

RichardCoulter 26-11-2011 13:41
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35335573)
There. I corrected your post by adding the extremely non-trivial information you somehow forgot to include.
Many people move all the time, either in order to keep their job when their employer relocates or to obtain promotion, it's commonplace.

It all depends on how seriously people wish to be in employment and/or work for VM in particular. In the current economic climate, I would advise staff to think very carefully indeed, if they are lucky enough to be jobmatched.

Of course, there will be limited circumstances where a move may be more problematic eg having seriously ill family members in Liverpool, having a partner who is settled in a good career there etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35335609)
Can I ask if there was any suggestion of the costs of moving house being taken into account..It's not exactly cheap to move.:erm:
I would imagine so, most companies have some sort of relocation package. Ours is called a "disturbance allowance".

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35335624)
The social cost of a long-distance job-move can be far higher than the basic financial cost of hiring a removal van and arranging house sale/purchase, though the emotional costs even of those things should not be under-stated.

I have taken the long-distance relocation option once before following a buy-out so I am well aware of the long-lasting implications, especially for those with families. I find the statement "they can move if they choose to" to be lacking in any understanding or empathy for the implications of it and I find the attachment of a smiley to that statement to be both highly patronising and, given the evident lack of understanding, misplaced in the extreme.
The smile was to indicate my pleasure that some people will be offered the chance not to lose their job.

Digital Fanatic 26-11-2011 13:49
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35335620)
Well it's not much but at least it should make the move easier.

As for everyone else I'm sorry for them all.Indeed my sympathies go to everyone else facing redundancies at the moment.
Yes, I obviously can't post the exact details here, but it's some help to anyone who can relocate.

---------- Post added at 12:44 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35335624)
The social cost of a long-distance job-move can be far higher than the basic financial cost of hiring a removal van and arranging house sale/purchase, though the emotional costs even of those things should not be under-stated.

I have taken the long-distance relocation option once before following a buy-out so I am well aware of the long-lasting implications, especially for those with families. I find the statement "they can move if they choose to" to be lacking in any understanding or empathy for the implications of it and I find the attachment of a smiley to that statement to be both highly patronising and, given the evident lack of understanding, misplaced in the extreme.
Totally agree, Chris.

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Personally, I have a chance of a job with VM more close to home. Fingers crossed!

Peter_ 26-11-2011 15:12
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335629)
Many people move all the time, either in order to keep their job when their employer relocates or to obtain promotion, it's commonplace.

It all depends on how seriously people wish to be in employment and/or work for VM in particular. In the current economic climate, I would advise staff to think very carefully indeed, if they are lucky enough to be jobmatched.
As you will be on virtually the same wage the is little incentive to move unless you are originally from the area or want to try living in another part of the UK.

Realistically it is not really viable to move and I would fully expect anyone doing so to quickly realise their error and return home.

RichardCoulter 26-11-2011 17:19
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35335635)
Yes, I obviously can't post the exact details here, but it's some help to anyone who can relocate.

---------- Post added at 12:44 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------



Totally agree, Chris.

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Personally, I have a chance of a job with VM more close to home. Fingers crossed!
I wish you luck with your application ;)

An uncle of mine started off as an office junior at a well known insurance company.

As a child it seemed that my cousins were moving every six months! Looking back it can't have been that often.

He moved wherever he was needed by the company and was rewarded with promotion time and time again. His family were rewarded by an ever increasing standard of living.

He got to the top and is now enjoying himself after taking early retirement. His family were very supportive throughout his career and his children, far from suffering from having to change schools frequently, are now confident adults who are able to make new friends easily.

Whenever I have had to move because of work, I have viewed it as an exciting challenge. Meeting new people, making new friends and living in a different place is so refreshing.

Obviously, as I touched upon earlier, everybodys situation is different and moving may not be suitable for everyone eg those with an autistic child who is traumatised by change, but, for most people I would say go for it!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35335684)
As you will be on virtually the same wage the is little incentive to move unless you are originally from the area or want to try living in another part of the UK.

Realistically it is not really viable to move and I would fully expect anyone doing so to quickly realise their error and return home.
As I understand it, there will help available to deal with the costs of moving house.

I don't think the level of wage is an issue, as, if anything, the cost of living could possibly be cheaper at the new location.

Of course, those lucky enough to be offered employment in Swansea, who have no pressing circumstances that make such a move impossible, are free to turn the job down and remain in Liverpool, but may find it extremely difficult to find alternative employment should they choose this option.

Chris 26-11-2011 18:35
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335755)
I wish you luck with your application ;)

An uncle of mine started off as an office junior at a well known insurance company.

As a child it seemed that my cousins were moving every six months! Looking back it can't have been that often.

He moved wherever he was needed by the company and was rewarded with promotion time and time again. His family were rewarded by an ever increasing standard of living.

He got to the top and is now enjoying himself after taking early retirement. His family were very supportive throughout his career and his children, far from suffering from having to change schools frequently, are now confident adults who are able to make new friends easily.

Whenever I have had to move because of work, I have viewed it as an exciting challenge. Meeting new people, making new friends and living in a different place is so refreshing.

Obviously, as I touched upon earlier, everybodys situation is different and moving may not be suitable for everyone eg those with an autistic child who is traumatised by change, but, for most people I would say go for it!!!



As I understand it, there will help available to deal with the costs of moving house.

I don't think the level of wage is an issue, as, if anything, the cost of living could possibly be cheaper at the new location.

Of course, those lucky enough to be offered employment in Swansea, who have no pressing circumstances that make such a move impossible, are free to turn the job down and remain in Liverpool, but may find it extremely difficult to find alternative employment should they choose this option.
Sorry ... could you clarify please, are you of the belief that only something as serious as a complex and incurable paediatric medical condition should preclude a family from relocating to a different part of the country to avoid redundancy?

I would really like to get this straight before I tell you what I think life on Planet Richard must be like.

RichardCoulter 26-11-2011 18:53
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
No, that was only one example of reasonable situations where relocation could not be considered as a serious option.

Others could be a terminally ill relative living in close proximity to Liverpool or a partner who is unwilling to disrupt a good career.

Nobody who does not wish to go to Swansea will be forced to, they are free to seek alternative employment so that they can remain where they are, however, the current difficulties in obtaining employment should not be underestimated.

Those offered employment in Swansea, who turn it down without "just cause" and who do not obtain a replacement job at their current geographical location may face difficulties when trying to claim benefits.

There are regulations in place that the Department for Work and Pensions use to protect public funds.

Hugh 26-11-2011 19:02
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335789)
No, that was only one example of reasonable situations where relocation could not be considered as a serious option.

Others could be a terminally ill relative living in close proximity to Liverpool or a partner who is unwilling to disrupt a good career.

Nobody who does not wish to go to Swansea will be forced to, they are free to seek alternative employment so that they can remain where they are, however, the current difficulties in obtaining employment should not be underestimated.

Those offered employment in Swansea, who turn it down without "just cause" and who do not obtain a replacement job at their current geographical location may face difficulties when trying to claim benefits.

There are regulations in place that the Department for Work and Pensions use to protect public funds.
Are you seriously suggesting that if someone does not wish to uproot themselves to move over 240 miles with an employer, they would be seen as making themselves unemployed and thus refused benefits? Surely this would only be valid if one's contract contained a mobility clause?

As has been stated, employees are being made redundant, not being fired for refusing to move.

Chris 26-11-2011 19:12
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335789)
No, that was only one example of reasonable situations where relocation could not be considered as a serious option.

Others could be a terminally ill relative living in close proximity to Liverpool or a partner who is unwilling to disrupt a good career.

Nobody who does not wish to go to Swansea will be forced to, they are free to seek alternative employment so that they can remain where they are, however, the current difficulties in obtaining employment should not be underestimated.

Those offered employment in Swansea, who turn it down without "just cause" and who do not obtain a replacement job at their current geographical location may face difficulties when trying to claim benefits.

There are regulations in place that the Department for Work and Pensions use to protect public funds.
I'm aware there are regulations that can prevent unemployment benefit payments if a reasonable job offer is turned down. However I would be immensely surprised if it were judged unreasonable to turn down a job offer requiring a displacement of some 250 miles (or 4 hours by car).

I think you're allowing your uncle's experience to skew your view of how this scenario might play out in other people's lives. Perhaps you place little value on community and extended family. It would appear your uncle's family saw things in that way (or else, perhaps the standard of living he pursued meant that getting back to visit was never a problem for them). That is not the situation most of the support personnel at VM are going to be in.

Incidentally, I never suggested you had held autism up as the only reason not to relocate. I asked if you thought only something as serious as autism was a good enough reason. Your alternative examples, of a terminal illness or a good career, suggest to me that my judgement of where you're coming from was not far off the mark. And I find that really rather sad.

My wife and I took the relocation option before we were even married and it took effect immediately after our honeymoon. We found the separation from friends and family very difficult but stuck with it for five years, moving back closer to family when our first child was pre-school age.

Ultimately I think a sense of community and extended family is infinitely more important than chasing money around the country. And in the absence of any empirical evidence I would also seriously doubt your assertion that your uncle's kids are confident individuals because they moved around so much. You could just as easily postulate that they may find it difficult to form deep relationships that mature beyond a few months due to lack of that experience. We simply don't know.

Those that are offered a move from Liverpool to Swansea will have all sorts of personal factors to weigh up. Whatever works for them is right for them, and implying that they are deficient in some way just because they may use a different measure than you or your uncle really isn't on.

Peter_ 26-11-2011 19:40
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335755)



As I understand it, there will help available to deal with the costs of moving house.

I don't think the level of wage is an issue, as, if anything, the cost of living could possibly be cheaper at the new location.
The are many people working at the Albert Dock who are married/living with a partner possibly have children and already have a mortgage and would have zero incentive to even consider such a move.

I myself have only a short time to run on my mortgage so to consider a move to another part of the country would be madness considering how much a comparative property would cost down there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335755)
Of course, those lucky enough to be offered employment in Swansea, who have no pressing circumstances that make such a move impossible, are free to turn the job down and remain in Liverpool, but may find it extremely difficult to find alternative employment should they choose this option.
Does this mean that you consider Liverpool and the Northwest to have a few jobs available.

I personally will be going down the home working route and already have a position lined up.

I think that you should stop commenting on this subject now as you are just digging yourself ever deeper with every post.

chrisidaho 26-11-2011 19:49
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Sorry to hear this. have dealt with staff from Albert dock many times over the years and have always been impressed with both their honesty and professionalism when dealing with problems.

As to being forced to relocate or risk losing benefits I have never read such rubbish. How many employees at Albert dock would have homes to sell to facilitate a move? How easy do you think that is in the current climate. How many rely on friends and family for child care or provide it to others? How many are happy where they live and don't want to leave friends behind? If the move works for some then great, but it is more in VMs interest to save on redundancy, retraining etc than as a stick to beat employees with. It would take a heartless employer indeed to tell staff they must relocate when a site is closed in this way (maybe that explains your attitude on these forums?)

I hope VM are looking to provide the employees at Albert dock with a comprehensive package of support to find alternative employment either within or outside the company. Having worked with many companies in this situation over the last 5 years I know what a difference this can make for employees in this situation.

RichardCoulter 26-11-2011 20:05
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35335795)
Are you seriously suggesting that if someone does not wish to uproot themselves to move over 240 miles with an employer, they would be seen as making themselves unemployed and thus refused benefits? Surely this would only be valid if one's contract contained a mobility clause?

As has been stated, employees are being made redundant, not being fired for refusing to move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35335800)
I'm aware there are regulations that can prevent unemployment benefit payments if a reasonable job offer is turned down. However I would be immensely surprised if it were judged unreasonable to turn down a job offer requiring a displacement of some 250 miles (or 4 hours by car).

I think you're allowing your uncle's experience to skew your view of how this scenario might play out in other people's lives. Perhaps you place little value on community and extended family. It would appear your uncle's family saw things in that way (or else, perhaps the standard of living he pursued meant that getting back to visit was never a problem for them). That is not the situation most of the support personnel at VM are going to be in.

Incidentally, I never suggested you had held autism up as the only reason not to relocate. I asked if you thought only something as serious as autism was a good enough reason. Your alternative examples, of a terminal illness or a good career, suggest to me that my judgement of where you're coming from was not far off the mark. And I find that really rather sad.

My wife and I took the relocation option before we were even married and it took effect immediately after our honeymoon. We found the separation from friends and family very difficult but stuck with it for five years, moving back closer to family when our first child was pre-school age.

Ultimately I think a sense of community and extended family is infinitely more important than chasing money around the country. And in the absence of any empirical evidence I would also seriously doubt your assertion that your uncle's kids are confident individuals because they moved around so much. You could just as easily postulate that they may find it difficult to form deep relationships that mature beyond a few months due to lack of that experience. We simply don't know.

Those that are offered a move from Liverpool to Swansea will have all sorts of personal factors to weigh up. Whatever works for them is right for them, and implying that they are deficient in some way just because they may use a different measure than you or your uncle really isn't on.
Measures are in place to prevent people claiming benefits instead of taking up the offer of a job. without "just cause", as is entirely reasonable.

In the modern world of work, many people have had to move to meet the needs of their employer or find another job instead, the latter being easier said than done in the current economic climate.

The current Government appear to agree with the view of Lord Tebbit that people should "get on their bike and look for work" and be prepared to move to where the work is. Changes to benefit and social housing rules have been/are planned to better facilitate this.

What "just cause" is depends upon an individuals circumstances. The rules, particularly in this redundancy/relocation situation, are complex, open to different interpretation and employment advisor discretion.

What is clear, however, is that people turning down work because they "didn't fancy it" or it "wasn't convenient" are likely to receive short thrift if they then turn to the benefits office for help.

Another thing to consider, is that any mortgage or credit card unemployment protection plans are unlikely to pay out if becoming jobless is viewed as a voluntary decision. All I will say on that is, in my experience, they often try to use anything they can to avoid paying out.

In relation to friends and family, I would say that providing for ones immediate family should be the major/deciding factor.

I find it "wet" to hear that people are prepared to limit themselves because they feel the need to be close to their family.

The world is growing ever smaller too, with contact through the internet/telephones having never been easier and the advent of modern transport.

I once had an 18 year old employee who was offered promotion. It involved him moving about two hours away by train. He started saying how he was close to his family etc.

I explained that one of the main roles of a parent is to bring up an individual to be an independent useful member of society. If his desire was to be forever attached to his mothers apron strings, then his parents had failed. I told him to man up, grow up and give me his decision the following morning.

He chose to relocate. As a result he made new friends, found a partner and moved out of the staff accommodation into his own home.

He keeps in regular contact with his family and travels down to one of our venues nearby to DJ once a fortnight. This allows him to see people and pays for his train fare.

That was two years ago, about five months ago, he wrote on facebook that he was really proud of what he had achieved for a 20 year old and thanked me, but not by name, one of those "you know who you are" scenarios. I couldn't help having a wry smile to myself as I read it...

I left home at 17, lived all over the UK and worked hard. I have had to move due to work in the past and still have to stay overnight in hotels to this day!

The days of being born in a town with everybody getting a 9-5 permanent job and living like the Walton family are long gone.

Chris 26-11-2011 20:45
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335829)
<major snippage>What "just cause" is depends upon an individuals circumstances.
... which neatly side-steps the specific example offered by this discussion. I will stick my neck out and say that no Job Centre would rule the turning down of a job offer 250 miles away as voluntarily making oneself unemployed.

Quote:
What is clear, however, is that people turning down work because they "didn't fancy it" or it "wasn't convenient" are likely to receive short thrift if they then turn to the benefits office for help.
Please don't hide behind generalisations. Under the circumstances I find your comments to be a wilful misrepresentation of the facts as clearly presented in the specific case under discussion.

Quote:
In relation to friends and family, I would say that providing for ones immediate family should be the major/deciding factor.

I find it "wet" to hear that people are prepared to limit themselves because they feel the need to be close to their family.
While respecting your obvious right to live as you choose, in general I find this attitude repugnant. It saddens me to see people limiting their definition of 'providing' to purely financial considerations.

Quote:
The world is growing ever smaller too, with contact through the internet/telephones having never been easier and the advent of modern transport.
Careful, you're starting to sound like a public information film. Believe it or not most of us are aware of the internet. And some of us still find personal contact with those we love and care for to be an infinitely richer and more rewarding experience.

Quote:
I once had an 18 year old employee who was offered promotion. It involved him moving about two hours away by train. He started saying how he was close to his family etc. <major snippage>

That was two years ago, about five months ago, he wrote on facebook that he was really proud of what he had achieved for a 20 year old and thanked me, but not by name, one of those "you know who you are" scenarios. I couldn't help having a wry smile to myself as I read it...

I left home at 17, lived all over the UK and worked hard. I have had to move due to work in the past and still have to stay overnight in hotels to this day!

The days of being born in a town with everybody getting a 9-5 permanent job and living like the Walton family are long gone.
Congratulations, Mr Miyagi.

Again, let's talk about what's specific to the case in point. Masque has already volunteered that he has a mortgage mostly paid off. We can infer his family circumstances if he is at that stage in his life. He has also pointed out that there are others at Albert Dock with children settled in school.

Guess what Richard, a great many of us in this thread left home at 18 and went to university. There is nothing remotely unusual in someone of that age getting out into the world and enjoying the experience, even if they needed a little push to do it.

The point you are persistently, and wilfully, refusing to acknowledge is that there are lots of families represented at Albert Dock. Many of those employees are not 18, do not have a child with a chronic condition or a terminally ill mother or a well-paid spouse. But they are settled in their community with their family around them. Such things are still important to some people and they don't need patronised by people who have sold their souls to their career.

I, too, have done my fair share of travelling and hotel dwelling. I've been pretty well paid for it too. These days I work from home, working hard to try to build a business that pays a lot less but means I see my children before and after school every day and am able to take them to see members of the extended family -in person - without thinking about the logistics or the cost.

My bank balance is a mere shadow of what it was. And I wouldn't swap back for anything.

You, sir, have my pity.

Peter_ 26-11-2011 21:46
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335829)
Measures are in place to prevent people claiming benefits instead of taking up the offer of a job. without "just cause", as is entirely reasonable.
For one you are talking through your rear end as no is being told they must move to Swansea, because in the real world that does not happen because the employer in situations such as this one prefers to employ staff from the local area to ensure stability of the workforce.

Any offers towards the possibility is just the company paying lip service to laws of the land as under TUPE this must happen, but as you are still in the realms of victoriana you believe that we should all up sticks and move to the new place of work.

Oddly enough redundancy takes care of that and no one will be penalised for not taking up an offer be it a tenuous one of possible employment in the Swansea centre because the employer has to by law put in place Outplacement and Employment workshops to help facilitate their soon to be redundant employees help finding work.

So do please stop spouting carp about something you clearly have no idea about, if the company turned around to me and said the is a position for you in Swansea and I refused it then that would be the end of it, and if I could not find work in Liverpool I would still be entitled to claim Job Seekers allowance for six months along with every other person who has lost their job through no fault of their own.

Again Richard stop posting rubbish about a subject you clearly have no understanding about, as all you are doing is making yourself out to be a bigger fool with each post.

RichardCoulter 26-11-2011 22:21
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I am a realist and do not believe that, just because someone is settled and has children in school, that they should expect others to keep them because they are not prepared to move to where employment is available.

People have had to move and/or be apart from their families for centuries.

Children are very adaptable and it's a good lesson to learn early on in life ie we don't always get what we want and things don't always go to plan either.

How do you think army families cope when they are posted overseas?

You remind me of somebody who thinks everybody should have Christmas day off to sit by the fireside with their family...who then switches the light on and expects it to work, puts on the TV and expects it to be broadcasting or 'phones for an ambulance if somebody hurts themselves and expects it to turn up.

Do you seriously believe that those who do not wish to go to Swansea, who do not find alternative employment and have no exceptional reason not to relocate, should be entitled to claim state benefits at a time of such austerity measures?

You live in "nice world", a place that doesn't exist.

The Government are currently taking steps to get the sick/disabled off benefits next year, do you think that they are going to allow a healthy person to linger on benefits!!!

As previously explained, benefit rules are indeed very complex. Any redundancy pay which takes a persons savings over as little as £6,000 will find their JSA/IB affected.

Finding yourself without a job is not a good position to be in at this moment in time and I urge everybody affected by this closure to be realistic when considering their options- the best of luck to you all.

@ Masque, no-one, including myself, has suggested that going to Swansea is compulsory.

Virgin Media are committed to helping employees as much as they can and to suggest that it is merely "lip service" to comply with legislation is offensive to those working so hard to make the process run smoothly for all concerned- don't forget, management have feelings too.

I hope you have a pleasant evening.

Chris 26-11-2011 23:01
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335870)
Do you seriously believe that those who do not wish to go to Swansea, who do not find alternative employment and have no exceptional reason not to relocate, should be entitled to claim state benefits at a time of such austerity measures?
Yes. Because our society, thankfully, still places a certain level of value on social cohesion.

I snipped out your rant about Christmas shift workers as it is in no way relevant, even tangentially, to the subject at hand.

Quote:
You live in "nice world", a place that doesn't exist.
An attitude that serves only to reinforce your need to find excuses for putting the pursuit of material gain ahead of everything else, whilst lying awake at night telling yourself you're doing the right thing by your family.

Keep repeating it. You might even believe it one day.

chrisidaho 26-11-2011 23:14
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335870)
I am a realist and do not believe that, just because someone is settled and has children in school, that they should expect others to keep them because they are not prepared to move to where employment is available.

People have had to move and/or be apart from their families for centuries.

Children are very adaptable and it's a good lesson to learn early on in life ie we don't always get what we want and things don't always go to plan either.

How do you think army families cope when they are posted overseas?

You remind me of somebody who thinks everybody should have Christmas day off to sit by the fireside with their family...who then switches the light on and expects it to work, puts on the TV and expects it to be broadcasting or 'phones for an ambulance if somebody hurts themselves and expects it to turn up.

Do you seriously believe that those who do not wish to go to Swansea, who do not find alternative employment and have no exceptional reason not to relocate, should be entitled to claim state benefits at a time of such austerity measures?

You live in "nice world", a place that doesn't exist.

The Government are currently taking steps to get the sick/disabled off benefits next year, do you think that they are going to allow a healthy person to linger on benefits!!!

As previously explained, benefit rules are indeed very complex. Any redundancy pay which takes a persons savings over as little as £6,000 will find their JSA/IB affected.

Finding yourself without a job is not a good position to be in at this moment in time and I urge everybody affected by this closure to be realistic when considering their options- the best of luck to you all.

@ Masque, no-one, including myself, has suggested that going to Swansea is compulsory.

Virgin Media are committed to helping employees as much as they can and to suggest that it is merely "lip service" to comply with legislation is offensive to those working so hard to make the process run smoothly for all concerned- don't forget, management have feelings too.

I hope you have a pleasant evening.

This post is so inaccurate it is untrue. I reply mainly because I fear an at risk employee could be scared by the inaccuracies you state.

1. IB is a legacy benefit. Someone losing their job now would not be able to claim it. It was replaced some time ago by ESA (employment support allowance) regardless the chance of someone moving directly from a job (fit to work) to ESA is minimal they would most likely move initially to JSA

2. Most employees made redundant would be entitled to contribution based JSA. This is non means tested and therefore unaffected by savings regardless of size. You are entitled to this for 6 months because you have paid NI as an employee and it is there to provide support whilst out of work. The vast majority of people not eligible for this are due to not contributing sufficiently to NI and therefore probably not employed for two years plus and therefore not entitled to redundancy.

3. Even this government are not so vicious to stops the benefits of those who are sick/disabled. They want to move people who they deem as fit for some type of work off IB OR ESA to JSA and "encourage" them into work with support

I work in a job centre on a weekly basis and whilst the staff there are realists and tough with claimants they believe to be evading work people made redundant would be supported to the best of their ability and certainly not given another kick on top of the pain of losing their job.

As other have said I really believe you should drop this, as it is evident you are gaining your expertise in this area from daily mail headlines....

Russ 26-11-2011 23:23
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisidaho (Post 35335882)
This post is so inaccurate it is untrue. I reply mainly because I fear an at risk employee could be scared by the inaccuracies you state.

1. IB is a legacy benefit. Someone losing their job now would not be able to claim it. It was replaced some time ago by ESA (employment support allowance) regardless the chance of someone moving directly from a job (fit to work) to ESA is minimal they would most likely move initially to JSA

2. Most employees made redundant would be entitled to contribution based JSA. This is non means tested and therefore unaffected by savings regardless of size. You are entitled to this for 6 months because you have paid NI as an employee and it is there to provide support whilst out of work. The vast majority of people not eligible for this are due to not contributing sufficiently to NI and therefore probably not employed for two years plus and therefore not entitled to redundancy.

3. Even this government are not so vicious to stops the benefits of those who are sick/disabled. They want to move people who they deem as fit for some type of work off IB OR ESA to JSA and "encourage" them into work with support

I work in a job centre on a weekly basis and whilst the staff there are realists and tough with claimants they believe to be evading work people made redundant would be supported to the best of their ability and certainly not given another kick on top of the pain of losing their job.

As other have said I really believe you should drop this, as it is evident you are gaining your expertise in this area from daily mail headlines....
:clap:

Excellent post :tu:

Nopanic 26-11-2011 23:26
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Seriously guys, this is about peoples lives, why are you playing up to the troll ?

Maggy 27-11-2011 00:16
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nopanic (Post 35335886)
Seriously guys, this is about peoples lives, why are you playing up to the troll ?
Tsk,tsk.You used the t word..:nono:;)

RichardCoulter 27-11-2011 04:10
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisidaho (Post 35335882)
This post is so inaccurate it is untrue. I reply mainly because I fear an at risk employee could be scared by the inaccuracies you state.

1. IB is a legacy benefit. Someone losing their job now would not be able to claim it. It was replaced some time ago by ESA (employment support allowance) regardless the chance of someone moving directly from a job (fit to work) to ESA is minimal they would most likely move initially to JSA

2. Most employees made redundant would be entitled to contribution based JSA. This is non means tested and therefore unaffected by savings regardless of size. You are entitled to this for 6 months because you have paid NI as an employee and it is there to provide support whilst out of work. The vast majority of people not eligible for this are due to not contributing sufficiently to NI and therefore probably not employed for two years plus and therefore not entitled to redundancy.

3. Even this government are not so vicious to stops the benefits of those who are sick/disabled. They want to move people who they deem as fit for some type of work off IB OR ESA to JSA and "encourage" them into work with support

I work in a job centre on a weekly basis and whilst the staff there are realists and tough with claimants they believe to be evading work people made redundant would be supported to the best of their ability and certainly not given another kick on top of the pain of losing their job.

As other have said I really believe you should drop this, as it is evident you are gaining your expertise in this area from daily mail headlines....
To clarify the points you have made:

1) No-one has mentioned Incapacity Benefit. JSA/IB stands for Income Based Jobseekers Allowance.

2) You are correct about Contribution Based Jobseekers Allowance (JSA/C), but I was trying to keep things simple. Most people will be affected if their savings exceed £6,000. This is mainly because:

- JSA/C will not be enough to live on, so they will need to apply for JSA/IB too. This particularly affects those with a mortgage, after the qualifying period has been satisfied.

- People in rented accommodation will have to claim Housing Benefit/LHA. This is means tested.

-People responsible for Council Tax will have to claim Council Tax Benefit. This is means tested.

3) The Government intend to reassess every sick and disabled person in receipt of health related benefits.

There will be three outcomes:

A) They will be found completely fit for work and transferred to JSA/IB or JSA/C and be required to actively seek/be available for work.

B) They will be found capable of doing work of some sort and put into the "work focussed" group. Discussions are currently taking place to end contribution based health benefits for these claimants after one year.

C) They will be found unfit for any work, put into the ""support" group, unless they want to be put into the "work focussed" group voluntarily and may continue to claim contribution based health benefits indefinitely.

It is widely expected that the vast majority of claimants will fall into categories A or B.

My knowledge comes from being part of a consultation panel to the Government about various work related issues.

It is worth noting that, instead of benefits being increased by the lower CPI, instead of the higher RPI, as was announced earlier, they are now very likely to be frozen.

Peter_ 27-11-2011 07:58
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335870)



@ Masque, no-one, including myself, has suggested that going to Swansea is compulsory.
Strange the way every post reads that way, shows how little you remember of your prior postings.

The fact is people are being made redundant and no one in their right mind would carry on the way you have about why we should be moving to Swansea, if the company wanted us that badly they would relocate locally.

In reality those jobs are not for us and we realise that as fact.

Sirius 27-11-2011 09:26
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35335894)
Tsk,tsk.You used the t word..:nono:;)
Yes but its accurate :tu:

Hugh 27-11-2011 10:50
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335789)
No, that was only one example of reasonable situations where relocation could not be considered as a serious option.

Others could be a terminally ill relative living in close proximity to Liverpool or a partner who is unwilling to disrupt a good career.

Nobody who does not wish to go to Swansea will be forced to, they are free to seek alternative employment so that they can remain where they are, however, the current difficulties in obtaining employment should not be underestimated.

Those offered employment in Swansea, who turn it down without "just cause" and who do not obtain a replacement job at their current geographical location may face difficulties when trying to claim benefits.

There are regulations in place that the Department for Work and Pensions use to protect public funds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335918)
To clarify the points you have made:

1) No-one has mentioned Incapacity Benefit. JSA/IB stands for Income Based Jobseekers Allowance.

2) You are correct about Contribution Based Jobseekers Allowance (JSA/C), but I was trying to keep things simple. Most people will be affected if their savings exceed £6,000. This is mainly because:

- JSA/C will not be enough to live on, so they will need to apply for JSA/IB too. This particularly affects those with a mortgage, after the qualifying period has been satisfied.

- People in rented accommodation will have to claim Housing Benefit/LHA. This is means tested.

-People responsible for Council Tax will have to claim Council Tax Benefit. This is means tested.

3) The Government intend to reassess every sick and disabled person in receipt of health related benefits.

There will be three outcomes:

A) They will be found completely fit for work and transferred to JSA/IB or JSA/C and be required to actively seek/be available for work.

B) They will be found capable of doing work of some sort and put into the "work focussed" group. Discussions are currently taking place to end contribution based health benefits for these claimants after one year.

C) They will be found unfit for any work, put into the ""support" group, unless they want to be put into the "work focussed" group voluntarily and may continue to claim contribution based health benefits indefinitely.

It is widely expected that the vast majority of claimants will fall into categories A or ose
My knowledge comes from being part of a consultation panel to the Government about various work related issues

It is worth noting that, instead of benefits being increased by the lower CPI, instead of the higher RPI, as was announced earlier, they are now very likely to be frozen.
Just for information, those noises you can hear are the goalposts being moved.....;)

Peter_ 27-11-2011 11:00
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35335789)

Those offered employment in Swansea, who turn it down without "just cause" and who do not obtain a replacement job at their current geographical location may face difficulties when trying to claim benefits.

There are regulations in place that the Department for Work and Pensions use to protect public funds.
Not a single person is being offered alternative employment in Swansea that is fact!! no ifs or buts, as we are being made REDUNDANT!!!!!

As for any jobs in Swansea on offer anyone interested has to apply for them and go through the application process the same as any other applicant because it is classed as another employer, the same would also apply to moving to Wythenshawe or any other office within the UK.

I know it is hard especially with you continually posting inaccurate and untrue statements but try to remove your head from your rear extremity.

Maggy 27-11-2011 11:35
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
I think we had all better calm down before we say something we later regret because of someone's big frack hammer.

Peter_ 27-11-2011 11:41
Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35335967)
I think we had all better calm down before we say something we later regret because of someone's big frack hammer.
That is calm just ensuring he can actually see it outside of his blinkers, and Sirius has him bang to rights above.:)


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