Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-29253547/

:td:

This has gone on long enough. If the police were at fault then this needs to be made public now.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

l agree totally with you on this and l have no doubt there has been a cover up for far too long.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

If they where at fault then we need to know why they where at fault,was it through lack of experience or incompetence

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I wonder what they've got to hide

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

what ever it is its been covered up by successive Governments and they should be ashamed of themselves

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I was reading about this in another forum. the theory is you remember these recent riots. ok, now here's the interesting part. the police were told to hold back on purpose. stand around and watch (yes, even the looters thought that was weird) (that's probably why it got so out of control in the first place even) anyway. now they're punishing them really hard so if there's any future thoughts of public disorder over anything. such as a big government cover up or something. nobody would dare do it at the risk of going to prison for a couple of years.

Cameron knew about this thing way before the recent riots. he doesn't want whatever is in there to be released to the public.

yeh. I thought it was silly too.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

You can sign the e-petition here:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199

It's at 50,000 at the moment. 100,000 will make it debatable in the house of commons, where I suspect the government won't be keen on defending their appeal against the documents release and may relent to avoid it becoming a bigger issue.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Signed.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Signed.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Sees bandwagon, jumps on...

Signed.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Signed.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Signed

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

The petition is about to cross 100,000 :)

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Excellent, This will be a test of the process and if they are listening to the voice of the voters

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Signed.

Now 100,820 signatures.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Signed and they just need to release them as it will never go away from whoever is in charge. It happened not far from where I live and I can remember the chaos that happened:(

May the 96 finally get the justice that they deserve and also the families.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Thats excellent that it has reached over 100,000 signatures as being a Liverpool supporter l remember that day totally and justice has never been done and now lets hope that finally it will be done.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

What are families of the victims, and the wider group, looking for?

I think everybody knows that policing mistakes were made.

I think everybody knows that the police fearing trouble outside the ground opened the Leppings Lane external gate thereby causing the influx of thousands of fans down the central tunnel thereby causing the tragedy.

If the police come out and say that, say that they made a mistake and they're sorry, then surely that'll be the end of it?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I would say they are looking for an end to the coverup that the government of the day helped instigate and that is the reason the present day government are so against it as it probably would not show the primeminister of the day in a very good light either.

Remember people died at Hillsborough and it was hushed up and a certain now none existent Sunday rag and its toilet paper weekly sister rag were given the go ahead to post wild accusations against fans who were trying to save their fellow fans.

I was not there that day but remember watching it live on Grandstand as they went live with the coverage and could not believe the scenes that I witnessed that day and the way the police behaved, it was callous and it was murder.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Perhaps someone can put me straight.

There was an inquiry, the cause was put down to overcrowding and failure by police to control the crowd.

I assume my synopsis in my previous post is also correct as I remeber watching several programmes where the cause of the tragedy was given as what I have posted.

So if the police have already been found to be at fault over this, what is the cover up?

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Poor policing, poor decisions and poor communication - followed by poor reporting.

Murder though......................... over active emotions help nobody.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Not first degree but it was murder if you can stand back and watch the life being crushed out of someone while others are begging you to open the gate which would have saved them, I would like to know how those policemen can live with themselves.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Nobody is being over active with their emotions but all we want is the full truth to be told instead of this establishment cover up.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

As I said above I saw this on live television and you could see what was happening and my emotion is anger due to what I witnessed via a box in the corner where I could see people dying.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Very well put Masque these are my sentiments as well. I watched it live as well and it made me feel sick to my stomach and also cry as well (due to all that was going on):(

Even typing this has made me remember it all over again and all I feel is anger now:mad:

Just release the documents.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

It is interesting why successive governments have sought to block the public release of these files. Why? Presumably, as the Conservatives were in power, Labour would have a political advantage to release the files. They did not. What motivated their decision not to do so because there were certainly people call for their release? Why is the Government blocking it now, over 20 years since the event?

Is it just because it contains conversations Thatcher had with her cabinet? Are there civil servants who stand to be harmed by their release? Maybe no government is pleased with setting a precedent over the release of 'private' conversations?

Either way people deserve to know what happened, the full details. The feeling is that the police were at fault and this was covered up and therefore the guilty parties were never held responsible. The anger at this runs deep amongst the support and Liverpool as a whole.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

If one party starts declassifying and releasing documents that could embarrass their opponents, then it's a green light for those opponents to do likewise the next time they are in power.

I think it's just one of those things that there is an unspoken agreement, you just don't do it.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

What's being covered up?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Plenty in my mind and people will not rest till we get the full truth and nothing but the truth in this establishment cover up.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Who knows? If there was nothing to hide they would release them straight away:confused:

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

No, they wouldn't - there is an extreme culture of secrecy in Whitehall. They don't release stuff because they're in the business of not releasing stuff. Any other speculation is verging on nutty conspiracy territory.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Didn't really answer the question, did you?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

These are the questions that need to be answered.



1 What, in detail, happened after 3:15pm on the day of the disaster?

2 Could more people have been saved if the response to the disaster had been better co-ordinated?

3 Who removed two CCTV video tapes from the locked control room at Hillsborough on the night of the disaster?

4 Why was nobody identified to have removed them, and what investigation was mounted?

5 Which South Yorkshire police officers worked in the unit that vetted police statements before they went to Taylor and the inquest?

6 Who gave the orders for them to do so and what was the stated intention of those orders?

7 Are the documents lodged by order of the government in the House of Lords library a complete archive of South Yorkshire police's Hillsborough documents?

8 What was Det Supt Stanley Beechey, a former head of the West Midlands serious crime squad, doing on the Hillsborough investigation while he had been placed on "non-operational duties"?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

2. Is a bit of a no-brainer question, isn't it? Hindsight is always 20/20.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Yes 2 is a bit of a no-brainer but there are stll many questions that need to be answered and lets hope we get these answers soon .

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I expect more would have been alive if the police had allowed the ambulances access to the ground rather than holding them back even though they know people were dying, I wonder if that officer that gave that order feels he has a clear conscience.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I doubt they did it out of spite. Clear thinking is not that easy in the mist of a crisis..

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Good article here that cuts though some of the posturing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/d...ependent-panel

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

How does answering those questions, some of which are irrelevant (2,3,7,8), give the families of the deceased ......justice?

The police have already been found guilty in regards to the tragedy.

The facts are already known.

1. Fearing crowd trouble outside the ground the police opened the large exit gates.

2. Crowd surge through the main central tunnel caused the crush.

3. Lack of communication and failure of the police to assess the situation inside the ground most likely resulted in more preventable deaths.

I don't know what conspiracy you're looking for, but I don't think there's one there.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

If there is no conspiracy? Why do they not release the documents then:confused:

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I do not think it was done out of spite, rather blinkered stupidity.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Well l am sorry Pierre but l have to disagree with you on this one.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Can I just ask one very simple question here?

If it was one of you family members/ Children or friends that lost their lives on that fateful day, And you were going through this for the last 20+ years.

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED

EVERYTHING

Sorry if this has offended anyone but just trying to get my point across!!!

Justice for the 96

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Point taken,

I'm just confused over the whole "Justice for the 96" stance.

What "justice" are you looking for?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

How do you determine it was stupidity ? No doubt decisions were made based on whatever information was at hand at the time. If you were not there, with that information, what gives you the right to call people stupid ?

So what is your theory then ?

What do you expect to find out ? What are you/they going to do with this mystical information if it even exists.

I can tell you what id be doing, getting on with my life, not spending 20+ years thinking about something I cannot change.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Well l think some very poor decisions were made at the time by the Police which resulted in the terrible tragedy which then engulfed many at Hillsborough and if you read my post earlier you will see some of the questions that need answering.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

The poor decisions made by the Police at the time were highlighted by the Interim Report by Lord Taylor, especially Chapter 18 - have you read it?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Yes l have quickly looked at it and it confirms the poor decisions made at the time by the police.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

What gives the Yorkshire police force the right to let people die and in many cases the police officers just ignored the cries for help even as the life was crushed out of victims in front of them while they stood back and watched.

The blinkered stupidity of senior officers not allowing ambulances to approach the ground when it was obvious people were dead or dying, just look at the television footage and think again how those decisions can be made.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Goalposts and moving springs to mind.....:rolleyes:

You quickly looked at a 88 page report, and made up your mind from that brief perusal - had you read it before I posted the link?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

l have always had the same view on the Hillsborough disater ever since it happened as anybody that had seen it and the aftermath of it knew that there were many poor decisions made by the police on that dreadful day and as a Liverpool supporter l have always followed this since the disaster has happened and have waited for the day when the full truth comes out and hopefully that will be soon.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Once again - had you read the report before I gave you that link?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

No but as you politely pointed out l have read chapter 18 since then and my views on it are still the same.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Aah - before, your opinion was uninformed, now it is partially informed.....

Try reading the rest - context (and being fully informed) is our friend, when making comments and decisions (imho).

After all, we wouldn't want to be making comments based solely on tabloid headlines, would we?;)

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

I'd still like to know what "Justice" people are expecting to get from this?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

l tend not to read tabloids so l have never based anything l have to say on those rags so that assumption is way off the mark as l tend to read papers like The Guardian and Daily Telegraph and secondly l carefully consider my comments before l make them but it seems Headmaster Hugh will have to call me in for extra classes to teach me properly.:)

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Read through all of this after the video and see what you think?

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/index.htm

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Yes, confirmed what I already knew, and a bit more besides.

IMO the only way the 96 would get "Justice" would be for criminal charges to be brought against SY Police?

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

MPs to debate release of Hillsborough cabinet papers


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ers-parliament

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Ministers should release all government documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster, MPs have agreed following a debate in the House of Commons.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-15339818

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Indeed they should, Its a shame that ALL of the successive Government's since have refused to release the papers. I hope that with this release there is closure but some how i don't think they will be.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Yes this hideous paper should be forced to reveal its sources.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

signed

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17382896

Well lets hope the truth wins out in the end as we all know that the Police were at significant fault for this disaster and yet they are still denying it to this day.

Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 

Will all the government papers on this subject be released?