Riots
 

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

And here is the latest update.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14434318

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I'm watching this on Sky news at the moment and listening to all the excuses coming out that the police are heavy handed in the area ,that unemployment is high in the area .There is no legitimacy to this behaviour at all it is mob rule sparked off because because "one of their own" was shot by the police ,we don't know why he was shot yet because the investigation is still ongoing .All we do know is that Mark Duggan shot at the police and was in turn shot by them so the local idiots think that wrecking their local community ,burning down local businesses and looting will solve any issues they have .
All that will happen now is local buisnesses will pull out ,unemployment in the area will rise so well done to those who took part in the riots ,you have just killed off your community

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Yes there is no excuse for this type of behavior in my mind and the fact remains that he was a criminal gangster who thought he was above the law and most of their other people who rioted well l suspect they are a bunch of good for nothings.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

i agree there is no excuse for this behavior they have ruined people's lives, some of the people that lived above carpet right had to leave so quickly all they were wearing was there PJ's they have lost everything, sickening behavior

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Excellent post Sir :tu:

Presently i am waiting for Flyboy to turn up here and justify the riot on the grounds "It was all the fault of the police and we don't know the full facts yet but it will be the fault of the police :blah: "

It was an excuse to loot the shops and smash things up nothing else, In fact it reminds me of the student riots. Mean while we as tax payers will have to pay for the clean up

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Very true.

There was a peaceful demo which turned nasty when, IMHO, the usual masked suspects got involved and decided to stir up trouble and cause mayhem. I heard many live interviews last night which conformed the state of mind of these thugs. One moron even claimed the police had murdered Duggan but didn't seem to accept that his being in possession of a loaded weapon was a problem and might just have been partly to blame for his demise. When someone else (a middle aged black woman by the sound of her voice) pointed that out to some of the crowd she was threatened with violence!

The sight of so many people looting, setting fire to property etc. is sickening and just goes to show that their motivation had far more to do with creating an opportunity for trouble making, theft and violence that it had to with the shooting incident earlier in the week. Protecting their 'community'?? What a total joke! What sort of community allows this to happen? Frankly these animals are **** and those who associate with and protect them from justice ought to be truly ashamed of themselves.

Burning cars/buildings, endangering lives and looting shops - what a great way to show how bad the police are..... :nutter: :mad:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I see the usual anti police nutters are coming out with their conspiracy theories,this one of the comments from this blog

http://thethinkingpoliceman.blogspot...-response.html

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

If the guy was routinely carrying a gun as is being reported, even for his own 'protection' then there can be no complaints from his 'gang'.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I am awaiting the arrival of the anti cop brigade here. ;)

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

i suspect you won't have a long wait ;)

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Don't worry, when they appear that well known police supporter Flyboy will spring into action and redress the balance in his usual fair and unbiased manner.... :D

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

;)

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It all comes down to who fired the first shot.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

nonsense ,if Duggan was prepared to carry a gun then it must be assumed he was prepared to use it

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Nonsense. they don't just shoot people dead for carrying a gun in this country. that kind of thing would cause riots amongst the people who say he should have been given a chance to surrender peacefully with the use of negotiations.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I don't agree. If a civilian carries a firearm or even a replica firearm and points it in the general direction of a police officer I believe the officer has every right to shoot. If he is in fear of his life then he should not have to wait for the criminal to take the first shot.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

If the criminals are prepared to use a gun then they have to face the consequences of it all.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

if he pointed the gun at anyone then he should be shot regardless of wether he fired or not

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

If you carry a gun then you have to accept the consequences of any action the police take. No grey area about it.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

We don't know if he pointed the gun. we don't know if he fired first. we don't know anything.

if he fired at the police first then yes. shoot the idiot.

---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

if, if, and if.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

in my opinion if he's carrying a gun full stop ,then shoot the idiot

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Agree fully. there is NO NEED for a member of the public to be carrying a hand gun.

All those that think the cops are to blame give me a legal legitimate reason for a member of the public to be carrying a hand gun in public that is loaded with rounds and ready to use ????

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The police don't have to wait for shots to be fired and nor should they.

Not sure of the actual rules of engagement but something along the lines of any threatening move with a lethal weapon, raising a gun with the intent to fire etc.

Personally I wouldn't want the job,

Immense pressure, immense responsibility and knowledge that your every move will be scrutinised. Demonised by people in the area and usually by the press most of which have no concept what is involved in shooting a weapon.

JJ

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Yup, agree with most...man has gun..man gets shot

Man not carry gun...man not get shot

Simples

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Even a water pistol?
does anyone get a few seconds to say it's only a water pistol?
or shot dead?

walk into a police station with a gun found on the step outside.
shot dead?

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

A excellent well thought out post.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

'Operation Trident' and CO19 were not involved because he had unpaid parking tickets.:rolleyes:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Are you going to have an adult debate here or are you going to keep posting verbal diarrhea

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

the rules of engagment are ruffly the sames as the armed forces when based in the uk.

Must identify themselves and declare intent to fire (unless this risks serious harm).
Should aim for the biggest target (the torso) to incapacitate and for greater accuracy.
Should reassess the situation after each shot.
must only fire if instructed to by a superior officer, or you belive that your life or another life is in danger.
must only fire if there is minimal danger of civilian casualties.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

If it is being pointed at someone and looks like a real gun, should the Police take the chance? Even if they say it is a water pistol, they could be lying and would have to pull the trigger to prove it was a water pistol.

If you find a gun, I would have thought it best to simply report it, in order to preserve any forensic evidence etc. If someone did pick it up to take into the police, would they be waving it around or hand over in something like a plastic bag?

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I am debating. debating is when one doesn't say what Sirius is thinking. such as bringing facts or points of view into it.
the only time I don't debate is when I think the same as you :)

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I was going to post something similar to you but thought it best not to encourage Gary and his fantasy theories

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

What if it was a pellet gun. they wouldn't have time to pull the trigger to prove it.

it would be in their hand because it was like that when they picked it up.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Here is something you could have googled or read on the day of the actual shooting, somehow I do not thing that a bullet could have come from a pellet gun.

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/n...rrest_attempt/

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

People have been campaigning for a ban on replica guns ,air pistols ect for years for the very reasons we are bringing up .Police do not know what is a real gun and what is a replica and for your information air rifles and guns can kill ,even water pistols can be made to look like a real gun

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Exactly as per this from the Thames Valley Police Force. http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/ab...st-repguns.htm

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I didn't say it was a pellet gun in this case :(

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------

Thanks for that Marty. I'd never had known that unless you told me :rolleyes:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Gary

Debating yes, however your post was proposing fantasies. ;)

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Have you forgot that I like to use posts as a sounding board and yours was perfect.;)

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

yet another thread that has got off the topic onto Gary L bashing how do you do it Gary is it a gift

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I think it is :LOL:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I know. that's why I'm scared to have an opinion sometimes. but it does give a good idea of who's suitable for jury service I suppose :)

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

i wonder how many new TV's are going to be on ebay later

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

hopefully the police will be doing a bit of door to door knocking and checking for stolen electricals ,and if the thieves are as thick as they appear then they will be putting them on ebay making them easily checked

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I always worry about someone who equates carrying a water pistol with a real gun and then tries to justify leaving everyone with a gun alone, just in case it is a water pistol.

Probably the same bleeding heart liberals who feel you should go soft with criminals as they have human rights...despite the disregard the crimimal has for others

One has to question whose rights come first

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Yes l agree as there are too many wooly Liberals who's first move is to stand up for the criminal and their rights and forget about the poor victim and their rights.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

As one of my Facebook friends has put it.

"So armed police go to arrest a man, man resists and opens fire with a handgun hitting one of the cops who then return fire, killing him. Now people are rioting demanding justice? What the *flip* is going on with this country?"

Duggan was obviously a thug, you don't get followed and arrested by an armed surveillance team for a giggle. He knew the Police were following him and texted someone to say so yet still decided to shoot first before the Police returned fire.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

When did looting become a form of protest?:mad:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Yes l agree totally but the problem is non law abiding people obviously do not see it that way and that shows how idiotic they are.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

well i for one fully support the police shooting gun toting idiots ,but i wouldn't want to be a police officer in that area at the moment ,lets hope they get the full backing of the local mp's and lets hope the police have broad shoulders 'cos they're going to need them

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

For once I agree with Gary.We do not know enough and I suspect that all those who rioted last night just had a garbled idea of what they were rioting about.They just wanted a ruck.Until the IPCC have finished their investigations we cannot actually KNOW what happened precisely.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Ask some of the students that rioted in London they might know.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

all i want to know is were was Superman while this was going on is he on holiday

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Now Sirius lets not stereotype every student as most are decent law abiding citizens.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Be thankful it isn't 1980....you would be paranoid when they started chanting "Let's get serious..serious" :D

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I always worry about someone who sees things in black and white. and then tell them that it's their own fault for getting shot in the head for chasing after the women in their life on a hot summers day with a water pistol.
because it may have been a gun and the womans life was at risk. nobody had time to assess whether you live or die.

but give my love to gran when you get there.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The more I watch this the more my blood pressure rises.

The BBC are allowing members of the 'community' to go on about the murder on Thursday without challenging it. I'm sorry what murder? There was an attempted murder of a Police officer but no murder.
You get complete ring pieces like Jodi McIntyre taking a break from deciding if he needs a wheelchair or not putting status updates on twitter saying the violence was all the fault of the Police and urging people to rise up against Police brutality.

In any other country in the world someone shooting at the Police and getting killed would be written off in a matter of days. Here it gets passed to the IPCC to sit on it for months before coming out with a report.

And yet not one senior Politician comes out to back the Police action, maybe they are ashamed that they are relying on the Police while planning to cut wages and increase pension contributions.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

are you serious

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

No. I don't believe in heaven.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Thats because most politicians lack any moral backbone and are more interested in their holidays.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Just saying, It seems the same every time there is a riot the rioters appear from some other group and start trouble and its never the people who started the protest . who tells them to be there at a certain time and place ???

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

Would that be all of them or only those you have an issue with. How are politicians to know that this would happen in advance of there holiday

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The media are going to be the biggest problem for the police they will allow the public to form their own conclusions and then broadcast them fueling more ill feeling and violence

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

No showing non political bias my comments apply to all parties.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

They have to get there viewing figures up some how. ;)

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Excellent you would make a good politician with an answer like that :LOL:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Very true.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I am so glad a certain poster on this forum does not run the news broadcasters :)

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I believe some of the news was spread via twitter.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

And this is the latest update on it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14435251

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...mmy-warns.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-shooting.html

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

These events have little to do with the shooting, racist oppression, the legacy of slavery, government cuts or any of the other well worn excuses. They have everything to do with a large mob of lowlife **** taking advantage of a situation for their own nefarious aims. In so doing they showed themselves to have no interest in the lives/wellbeing of the 'community', Mr Duggan, the protest or even (in the case of those who live in the area) their own environment. They looted, set fire to shops/homes and attacked entirely innocent people like the driver of that bus and the fire crews being sent to the scene. I also heard first hand reports of a local shopping area overrun by a mob who were openly ransacking shops and threatening anyone taking pictures or using their phones. The police truly are damned if the do and damned if they don't. They act too soon and they're blamed, they act too late and they're blamed. They respond too harshly and they're wrong and they act too softly and they're wrong. This time the police are being blamed for not intervening swiftly enough with the result that matters got out of hand but how much of that decision was due to previous criticism when they have intervened promptly/forcefully to snuff out trouble and were then accused of overreacting to things that didn't happen. I dare say if people have died in the resulting fires the police will be blamed for that too! The only people to blame were the thugs and the mob!

I think we're on a seriously rocky road when it's common knowledge that our police are so tactically and politically hamstrung that you can freely mask yourself up, have yoursleves a nice little riot and walk away with a trolley load of looted goods as a bonus. This **** showed they have no respect for law and order, no fear of the police or authority in general and not one iota of care for their own 'communities'. Unless the excuses stop and the police's tactics change we can expect more of this sort of thing.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

wow this is messed up. couldnt believe it when i read it, this is some messed up town anyway

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

well said :clap::clap:

As a law abiding citizen and tax payer i demand that tonight when it all kicks off again we have some batton rounds and water cannons employed by the police and local TA regiment

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Yeh, it's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum.

and to get the authority back that these kind of people think they can destroy.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Excellent post :clap:

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Having fired both 25 grain and 45 grain baton rounds i can vouch for there effectiveness :D

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The behaviour of the yobs in Tottenham yesterday was despicable, the damage to shops, flats and the carnage to vehicles had nothing whatsoever to do with the 'so called murder' we don't know what happened to the guy.

I cannot see a policeman marksman deliberately firing on a suspect without reason, I have been going to Tottenham for the past 30 years, mainly for the football, they are good decent people and don't need this.

It was sheer despicable actions by **** who should spend the rest of there life behind bars, but they won't in case it ruins that human rights.

I went to Spurs last night, and if this trouble had started when Spurs were coming out it would have meant certain fatalities, as many of the fans walk down this to road going back to Seven Sisters tube.

And after last night the 'famous icon' on the High Road, the tower which is on the junction is no longer there, that was total destroyed.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

It seems trouble is spreading to Enfield.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/20...ce-duggan-live

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...riot-live.html

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

great getting nearer to me. just seen a few police car going from local station in the enfield direction

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Just saw this on twitter

Police car wrecked in Enfield - most rioters looked under 16, lots of young girls throwing concrete slabs through shop windows.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

To be fair it's hard to know if that's a riot or just a typical night out in Enfield. :confused:

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/20...-live#block-44

Anyway. I see a lot of people are automatically assuming the police account of the events are legit. We do not know this, there is a investigation. It's too early to say if this was as clear cut as they make out and it's also too early to assume the police made a mistake.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

It could be a copycat bandwagon type of thing just to get a few headlines

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Because there should be a investigation! That doesn't mean the police are guilty but you don't write off someones death in a matter of days because the police did and they say he fired first.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

If there was no-one against them, They would stop? So if they all just stopped and left it alone it would be a-lot better? IMHO

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

" Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands. "

" police issue bullet" What exactly defines a Police issue Bullet?:erm:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

It hurts:erm:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Well:

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Any gun can fire a Hollow point bullet.
I mean, they`re not exclusive to the police.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

i find it hard to believe that the police would try to cover up a shooting in such a sloppy way

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

exactly ,i refer to my earlier post about the media inflaming the situation

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Yep the Police are the only people in London who have hollow point bullets...

http://gangsinlondon.blogspot.com/20...um-bullet.html

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Well we need to see what type of gun the suspect had. I am not saying the police killed him and covered it up, I am saying we need to wait and see until all the facts come out.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I ued to shoot fullbore pistol and Hollow points are the worst for damage causing.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The hydroshock from a hollowpoint as it mushrooms can destroy most of your internal organs.. The reason though why they're used is that it's safer for the public as a round will not go through a person and hit a bystander.

They fall under section 5 of the firearms act though there are exceptions but that wouldn't stop illegal importers/dealers as that's how most ammunition ends up on the street..

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

From reading between the lines here, the police are to blame.

Isn't it about time, we looked at the overall picture, a guy gets shot dead in a police operation, they must have done plenty of investigations work before doing the operation, which sadly led to the guys death.

What happened that tragic night, does NOT excuse to sick people that ran riot in Tottenham. you cannot call them people, they are sick animals.

On Sky news this evening, they were saying that looters were clearing out a PCworld site KNOW WHERE near the High Road, clearing out everything and selling it on the pavement.

We saw on TV where the yobs had there faces covered, as they didn't to be seen on screen, smashing windows ans stealing property quite openly.

This was pure and disgraceful acts of violence, and deserve severe punishment.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

How on earth can you come to that conclusion?

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

:td:Making a protest about something is one thing, Looting and stealing, thieving in general is what these people do all the time.! They use the rioting as an excuse for personal gain.:mad::mad:
They`re not at all interested in what happened to the guy who was shot and killed, its just an excuse to get what they can for free. *******s.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The way the comments are going, its looking that way.

I am all for the police doing there job by any means possible, water cannon the lot, if it brings peace to the area.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

I was thinking the same thing.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

because it's arthur ,he doesn't need facts to come to a conclusion,he only needs a few unfounded rumours

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

Let's hope it's not true. because if it is we'll be needing the Army.

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

seems to be getting realy bad in Enfield now Twitters going nuts

Re: Riots in Tottenham
 

The thing that irritated me earlier was the BBC talked to one of the organisers and while he didn't give out and out support for the looters, he did not condemn them and said it was the polices fault.

IMO, the people looting didn't give a proverbial rats about the reason behind the riots. They were just in it for what they could loot. As such, they are vermin.