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denphone 22-07-2011 15:39
Norway: Terror attacks
 
There has been a explosion in Oslo at a government HQ perhaps injuring dozens of people and there is a report of two fatalities.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...q-2318850.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ity-blast.html

idi banashapan 22-07-2011 17:13
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
looks like carnage on BBC news 24

denphone 22-07-2011 17:14
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan (Post 35276849)
looks like carnage on BBC news 24
Yes it does look very bad.

idi banashapan 22-07-2011 17:15
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35276852)
Yes it does look very bad.
if only 2 people died in that, then that is very, very lucky. It's also good to see that the Norwiegians are NOT making any statement on whether this is terrorism yet, rather than immediately pointing fingers without evidence.

denphone 22-07-2011 17:19
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan (Post 35276853)
if only 2 people died in that, then that is very, very lucky. It's also good to see that the Norwiegians are NOT making any statement on whether this is terrorism yet, rather than immediately pointing fingers without evidence.
Looking at the pictures first of all it looked terrible and yes its important that people don't jump to conclusions.

idi banashapan 22-07-2011 17:22
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
news in - a man in police uniform has attacked a labour party youth camp with gunfire... this is looking really bad...

nomadking 22-07-2011 17:30
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35276855)
Looking at the pictures first of all it looked terrible and yes its important that people don't jump to conclusions.
Car bombs are a natural phenomenon?:rolleyes: The explosion was outside the building.

Osem 22-07-2011 17:31
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan (Post 35276853)
if only 2 people died in that, then that is very, very lucky. It's also good to see that the Norwiegians are NOT making any statement on whether this is terrorism yet, rather than immediately pointing fingers without evidence.
It's the media as opposed to the authorities who normally start speculating and pointing fingers in the confused immediate aftermath of such an event.

Let's hope this and the other event you've since reported aren't terrorist linked.

denphone 22-07-2011 17:33
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35276862)
It's the media as opposed to the authorities who normally start speculating and pointing fingers in the confused immediate aftermath of such an event.

Let's hope this and the other event you've since reported aren't terrorist linked.
Yes lets do hope it is not terrorist linked.

nomadking 22-07-2011 17:43
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Of course what people mean, when saying that they hope it's not terrorist linked, is that it's not Islamic terrorism. It's hardly simply an accident.:rolleyes:

It's being reported now that the Norwegian PM was due at the meeting where shots were fired, but didn't attend.

sir_drinks_alot 22-07-2011 17:44
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan (Post 35276857)
news in - a man in police uniform has attacked a labour party youth camp with gunfire... this is looking really bad...
4 have dead in that attck :(

denphone 22-07-2011 17:48
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_drinks_alot (Post 35276870)
4 have dead in that attck :(
This is utterly sickening.

nomadking 22-07-2011 17:54
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_drinks_alot (Post 35276870)
4 have dead in that attck :(
The captions are saying 5 injured not dead.

sir_drinks_alot 22-07-2011 17:54
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35276875)
This is utterly sickening.
yes yes it is :( wonder if the two attacks are linked ?

Hugh 22-07-2011 17:58
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35276866)
Of course what people mean, when saying that they hope it's not terrorist linked, is that it's not Islamic terrorism. It's hardly simply an accident.:rolleyes:

It's being reported now that the Norwegian PM was due at the meeting where shots were fired, but didn't attend.
Yes, you are right, unless you live in Europe, especially in Northern Ireland, or France, or Spain....:rolleyes:

Link

Quote:
However, the overwhelming message emerging from a closer look at European terrorism is that regional separatist movements are by far the most active and widespread perpetrators of terrorist attacks. Of the successful terrorist attacks on European soil, 64% (160) were carried out by separatists. Whilst instances of separatist terrorism have been recorded in Austria, France and Italy, it is the Basque separatist movement ETA in Spain, and splinter factions of dissident republican organisations in Northern Ireland, that account for the vast majority of these incidents.

Indeed, it was the recent political rapprochement between ETA and the Spanish government, and the corresponding 50% decline in terrorist attacks in Spain, which has led to a 22% decline in overall terrorist incidents between 2009-2010. Meanwhile, as tragically illustrated earlier this year by the death of PC Ronan Kerr, Northern Irish terrorism has begun to increase once more.

This compares to 45 incidents of left-wing or anarchist terrorism (18% of the total), and a statistically minute 1% of successful attacks relating to jihadist groups (three in total). Al Qaeda and their ideological peers may grab the headlines, but they barely register in terms of successful attacks in Europe.

Beyond attacks, arrests and criminal charges levelled during counter-terror operations also paint a useful picture for understanding European terrorism. Here, once again, the majority of individuals held for terrorist offences were separatists: arrested in France (123), Spain (104) and the Republic of Ireland (57). Compared to this, only 179 individuals were arrested for Islamic terrorist offences, constituting 29% of all counter-terror arrests
Anyway, here's hoping they catch the culprits....

denphone 22-07-2011 18:03
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35276882)
Yes, you are right, unless you live in Europe, especially in Northern Ireland, or France, or Spain....:rolleyes:

Link



Anyway, here's hoping they catch the culprits....
Totally Hugh and the sooner the better.

nomadking 22-07-2011 18:06
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35276882)
Yes, you are right, unless you live in Europe, especially in Northern Ireland, or France, or Spain....:rolleyes:

Link



Anyway, here's hoping they catch the culprits....
Others were denying that it was a terrorist attack of any origin. I'm not saying who was responsible for the attack(s), but whoever is responsible, it was still a terrorist attack, not something like an accidental gas explosion.

Damien 22-07-2011 18:21
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Does Norway have any issues with separatists?

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog...erage#block-24


Quote:
NRK is reporting that an unknown group called "Helpers of the Global Jihad" have posted a message that this is only the beginning of the reaction to Norwegian periodicals publishing the Muhammed cartoons, according to Andrew Boyle, a journalist in Norway.

Jimmy-J 22-07-2011 19:07
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Norwegian media is now reporting seven people killed by the bomb blast and two seriously injured.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog...erage#block-29

Hugh 22-07-2011 19:11
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35276866)
Of course what people mean, when saying that they hope it's not terrorist linked, is that it's not Islamic terrorism. It's hardly simply an accident.:rolleyes:

It's being reported now that the Norwegian PM was due at the meeting where shots were fired, but didn't attend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35276889)
Others were denying that it was a terrorist attack of any origin. I'm not saying who was responsible for the attack(s), but whoever is responsible, it was still a terrorist attack, not something like an accidental gas explosion.
You appear to be confusing 'hoping it's not a terrorist attack' with 'denying', and whilst you may not have explicitly stated who you thought carried out the attack, the implication was fairly clear...

denphone 22-07-2011 19:11
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy-J (Post 35276935)
Sadly l think this is what we all feared with more people confirmed dead.

Mick 22-07-2011 19:40
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Eye witness claiming that he has seen 20 - 30 people killed on the Utoya Island. :(

denphone 22-07-2011 19:45
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35276954)
Eye witness claiming that he has seen 20 - 30 people killed on the Utoya Island. :(
If this is confirmed well it just absolutely terrible.

Jimmy-J 22-07-2011 20:06
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/wo...o.html?_r=2&hp

denphone 22-07-2011 20:08
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
There is only one word to describe these terrorists and that is they are evil ****.

Jimmy-J 22-07-2011 20:19
re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
It's not been confirmed, but I've just read that some of the 20/30 killed could be children!

Kymmy 22-07-2011 20:55
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Thread title changed as it's more than just the initial bombing

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

Norway police are quoting about 9-10 people killed at the youth camp :(

denphone 22-07-2011 20:58
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35276991)
Thread title changed as it's more than just the initial bombing

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

Norway police are quoting about 9-10 people killed at the youth camp :(
Our thoughts and condolences go out to their families.

Maggy 22-07-2011 21:24
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
It's rather an extreme reaction for a few cartoons..:mad:

Osem 22-07-2011 21:36
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35277004)
It's rather an extreme reaction for a few cartoons..:mad:
Well it just puts into perspective the value these 'people' attach to human life and demonstrates just how twisted their beliefs are.

Damien 22-07-2011 21:36
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
We don't know it was in relation to the cartoons yet.

Osem 22-07-2011 21:44
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35277008)
We don't know it was in relation to the cartoons yet.
True, but we do know such 'crimes' have been cited as justification for murder before by certain Islamic fanatics.

Damien 22-07-2011 22:01
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35277009)
True, but we do know such 'crimes' have been cited as justification for murder before by certain Islamic fanatics.
Yes. Norway seems a bit odd though, I don't think it was Islamic fanatics. I think they would target the UK/Spain/Germany more than Norway.

Osem 22-07-2011 22:08
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Perhaps they deemed super safe Norway a relatively soft touch and a great opportunity to spread terror to a new, previously untouched place? It could be payback for the fact that Norway has had troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Whether Islamic fanatics or any other sort, who knows how animals like this think?

Damien 22-07-2011 22:20
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
The suspect was from Norway. Same guy at both attacks.

On BBC now.

Kymmy 22-07-2011 22:21
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35277025)
Perhaps they deemed super safe Norway a relatively soft touch and a great opportunity to spread terror to a new, previously untouched place? It could be payback for the fact that Norway has had troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Whether Islamic fanatics or any other sort, who knows how animals like this think?
I agree with that. Norway is an active NATO member with troops in conflict areas. UK, US and other major NATO countries are very aggressively hunting terrorist suspects so it would not be a surprise if this turns out to be an Islamic extremist attack.

The only thing puzzling me is the description of the shooter (6ft, blonde..) so it could point towards a political attack instead of religious.. Only time will tell

denphone 23-07-2011 05:26
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Well sadly l am afraid the death toll has risen massively and they are now saying that 80 people have been killed at the Youth camp and also police have arrested a 32 year old man of Ethnic Norwegian origin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-shooting-oslo

Jimmy-J 23-07-2011 06:19
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content...4/16035914.jpg
Quote:
The suspect being held in connection with both attacks has been named in Norwegian television reports as Anders Behring Breivik.
Police are understood to have searched a flat in west Oslo where the man lived.
An anonymous police official said the suspect was arrested in Utoya and appears to have acted alone in the attacks.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...ousel_Region_0

denphone 23-07-2011 08:13
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
The latest news is that the death toll has now risen to 91 and this now seems quite likely to have been a political motivated attack.

Kymmy 23-07-2011 08:22
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
84 at the camp and 7 at the bomb site.. :cry:

It'll probably be some senseless reason as to why this person has done this :mad:

Hom3r 23-07-2011 08:37
I cannot believe that 1 person was involved, and that others will be found in the coming days

Kymmy 23-07-2011 08:42
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Latest reports is that Police say suspect's website indicates he has right-wing Christian fundementalist orientation.

I really do hope that this isn't caused by religion :(

denphone 23-07-2011 08:43
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Our heartfelt condolences go out to their familys and relatives.

Osem 23-07-2011 09:21
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
I've just heard a Norwegian media guy being interviewed on BBC radio and he was saying that if found guilty, the guy in question would face a maximum term of 21 years in prison. In Norway, apparently, that's as harsh as the penal code gets! If this is indeed the case, given the scale of this slaughter and the horror that it's evoked, it'll be interesting to see if the Norwegians will decide that their penal code needs to be revised to take account of a world in which terrorist acts and mass murder seem to be becoming more common.

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35277153)
Latest reports is that Police say suspect's website indicates he has right-wing Christian fundementalist orientation.

I really do hope that this isn't caused by religion :(
Yes, that's now looking more likely to be what's behind this. I find it ironic in the extreme that religious ideologies supposedly developed and practised to spread good can be twisted by some to justify evil.

Maggy 23-07-2011 09:41
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35277008)
We don't know it was in relation to the cartoons yet.
You were right..proving my usual point that speculation at early stages is pointless.;)

Osem 23-07-2011 09:50
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35277189)
You were right..proving my usual point that speculation at early stages is pointless.;)
I don't think speculation is pointless and by definition it's something done before the full facts of any subject or event are known. We do it all the time about all sorts of things (the Eurozone problems for example) and forums like this will be pretty thin if we all stop (although that would of course reduce your workload a bit ;)). At this stage we're still speculating about the motives behind this guy's apparent actions. IMHO reasonable speculation is fine as long as it isn't presented as fact in spite of all the evidence to the contrary and/or deliberately used to promote hate.

denphone 23-07-2011 10:17
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35277189)
You were right..proving my usual point that speculation at early stages is pointless.;)
And thats why l thought it was important not to mention any potential groups or persons when l first posted as these things can change very quickly as more facts become known and revealed.

Halcyon 23-07-2011 10:59
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
This is dreadful. :(

I hope they get the person who did this.

Osem 23-07-2011 11:12
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35277208)
And thats why l thought it was important not to mention any potential groups or persons when l first posted as these things can change very quickly as more facts become known and revealed.
Take all the speculation out of the NOTW thread and there's not much left. ;)

denphone 23-07-2011 11:15
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35277232)
Take all the speculation out of the NOTW thread and there's not much left. ;)
l suppose you are right about that thread but in this thread l thought it was important not to tar any ethnic group with the bombing before the facts were known.:)

LondonRoad 23-07-2011 11:38
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Probably my failing memory but I can't remember any similar cases of mass shootings where the perp has actually been caught alive.

RIP to all the victims and heartfelt sympathy to the families. :(

Derek 23-07-2011 11:44
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonRoad (Post 35277239)
Probably my failing memory but I can't remember any similar cases of mass shootings where the perp has actually been caught alive.
One of the Mumbai terrorists was captured and there was a shooting at a US army base a couple of years ago where the shooter was arrested but it is a rarity.

adzii_nufc 23-07-2011 12:02
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989

Seems this was an act of their own people :(

denphone 23-07-2011 17:41
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Sky news has said there are 98 people who are now confirmed dead in Norway.

Hugh 23-07-2011 22:10
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Billy Bragg made, IMHO, a good point on his Facebook page

Quote:
"We often complain that, whenever an act of terrorism is claimed by 'Islamists', Muslims everywhere get the blame. So before we rush to condemn every Christian because of the terror that Anders Breivik perpetrated yesterday, its worth noting that, like 'Islamists', he appears to have been motivated by his politics, rather than by his faith."
And as for today's Sun front page.......

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5697470&type=1

martyh 23-07-2011 22:22
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35277565)
Billy Bragg made, IMHO, a good point on his Facebook page



And as for today's Sun front page.......

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5697470&type=1
where the hell do they get Al-Quaeda from ,talk about jumping the gun ,or just plain making things up .
I see everything is back to normal at News International :rolleyes:

Hugh 23-07-2011 23:23
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Just plain making things up.

They put Al-Qaeda in quotes, so that makes it alright, 'apparently'......

TheDaddy 24-07-2011 07:31
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35277603)
Just plain making things up.

They put Al-Qaeda in quotes, so that makes it alright, 'apparently'......
Might have had some thing to do with that Global jihad message, think a lot of news organisations took it as legit and ran with it.

NRK is reporting that an unknown group called "Helpers of the Global Jihad" have posted a message that this is only the beginning of the reaction to Norwegian periodicals publishing the Muhammed cartoons, according to Andrew Boyle, a journalist in Norway.

RizzyKing 24-07-2011 17:27
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
My sympathy and condolences go to the norweigen people in this terrible time and i hope the pain is as shortlived as possible for all those families. As to the person who committed this and any others that may be responsible i don't care right now all thoughts should be with the victims and their families.

AdamD 25-07-2011 00:00
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Ugh, The Sun, more like "The Sewer".

The more I read the stupid headlines these scummy newspapers put out, the more I despise them.

As for the topic at hand, a very sad day, very shocking.

I can't understand how someone could do such a thing.

Maggy 25-07-2011 01:37
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
So if he is a right wing Christian fundamentalist with a beef about Muslims why did he attack Norwegians? That makes no sense.:confused:

RizzyKing 25-07-2011 03:21
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
One of the great things about being a nutter is that things only have to make sense in your own mind not the minds of the sane majority.

TheDaddy 25-07-2011 06:03
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35278163)
So if he is a right wing Christian fundamentalist with a beef about Muslims why did he attack Norwegians? That makes no sense.:confused:
It makes perfect sense if you're an irrational nutter, he reminds me of Muslim fundamentalist Barry from 4 Lions when he said "attack the Mosques, make the Muslims rise up and start a revolution" it's almost word for word what this guy was hoping for except he hoped the up rising would be aimed at Muslims and immigration of course by attacking Norway's very structure of society.

I am very impressed with the way Norway has handled this situation, they are a credit to the human race.

Jimmy-J 25-07-2011 07:27
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35278163)
So if he is a right wing Christian fundamentalist with a beef about Muslims why did he attack Norwegians? That makes no sense.:confused:
Quote:
Breivik appears to have developed a pathological hatred of the Norwegian "establishment", principally the political class symbolised by the ruling Labour party, whose youth camp on Utøya he attacked. His political views were too extreme for the rightwing Progress party, of which he was once a member.

An ethnic Norwegian, he was strongly opposed to signature government policies favouring multiculturalism. Although an apparent racial supremacist and Islamophobe, he adopted the language of Muslim jihadists.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ered-questions

Damien 25-07-2011 08:35
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
He presumably blamed the left-wing establishment and population for embracing multiculturalism. I don't think there was much 'Christian' motivation in his actions - just irrational hatred. Rather ironically the EDL are distancing themselves from him saying he doesn't represent their views - wonder if they will now extend that view to Muslims?

Maggy 25-07-2011 08:49
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Well it still makes no sense to me..:(

Damien 25-07-2011 08:57
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
I just saw the comments on the Daily Mail site who seem to be blaming governments, immigrants and Muslims for creating the atmosphere where this kind of thing happens. :( I feel sick.

Maggy 25-07-2011 09:11
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35278182)
I just saw the comments on the Daily Mail site who seem to be blaming governments, immigrants and Muslims for creating the atmosphere where this kind of thing happens. :( I feel sick.
Simple ,don't read that crappy toilet rag...

Gary L 25-07-2011 09:14
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35278182)
I just saw the comments on the Daily Mail site who seem to be blaming governments, immigrants and Muslims for creating the atmosphere where this kind of thing happens. :( I feel sick.
I don't blame you :)

denphone 25-07-2011 10:15
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35278186)
Simple ,don't read that crappy toilet rag...
l would not dream of using that as a toilet rag.;)

Damien 25-07-2011 11:33
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35278168)
It makes perfect sense if you're an irrational nutter, he reminds me of Muslim fundamentalist Barry from 4 Lions when he said "attack the Mosques, make the Muslims rise up and start a revolution" it's almost word for word what this guy was hoping for except he hoped the up rising would be aimed at Muslims and immigration of course by attacking Norway's very structure of society.

I am very impressed with the way Norway has handled this situation, they are a credit to the human race.
Sadly the Internet is awash with people who seem to think this is the case. People cannot accept that such uncontrollable hatred can lead to such actions so they are shifting the blame on the killer's antagonists. Instead of re-evaluating if the extreme hatred against Islam that seems to have inspired him should perhaps be kept in check, they seem to be defending that ideology (although not the actions).

So depressed.

Sparkle 25-07-2011 12:23
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35278164)
One of the great things about being a nutter is that things only have to make sense in your own mind not the minds of the sane majority.
Sane majority? :rofl:

denphone 25-07-2011 12:51
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
The gun massacre hearing is going to be heard in private and that is totally the right decision.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-2320115.html

denphone 25-07-2011 14:53
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
The breaking news on the BBC is that he claims that he had 2 more cells working with him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14280210

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...anders-breivik

Maggy 25-07-2011 17:10
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35278304)
The breaking news on the BBC is that he claims that he had 2 more cells working with him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14280210

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...anders-breivik
From the last link

Quote:
Associated press is reporting that police have lowered the death toll in the youth camp massacre outside the Norwegian capital to 68, down from 86. Police spokesman Oystein Maeland said that higher, erroneous figure emerged as police and rescuers were focusing on helping survivors and securing the area. Maeland also said the death toll in the bomb blast in Oslo before the shootings had gone up to eight, from seven. That puts the total number of people confirmed killed in the twin attacks at 76, down from 93.

denphone 25-07-2011 17:23
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35278359)
From the last link
While glad the death toll has been revised downwards it is still a shocking massacre Maggy and our thoughts are with the parents and families.

Kymmy 26-07-2011 10:37
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
I see that Norway is now looking at other charges to try to raise the limited term of imprisonment.. Latest thought is crimes against humanity which has a limit of 30 years.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the victims were nationals of other countries as that then opens up the possibility of putting him away for 20 years then charging him in another country for another term (as long as their judicial limitations allow it)

Maggy 26-07-2011 11:55
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35278367)
While glad the death toll has been revised downwards it is still a shocking massacre Maggy and our thoughts are with the parents and families.
I never said it wasn't.I was merely making sure everyone had the FACTS.:rolleyes:

Pierre 26-07-2011 12:50
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35278641)
I see that Norway is now looking at other charges to try to raise the limited term of imprisonment.. Latest thought is crimes against humanity which has a limit of 30 years.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the victims were nationals of other countries as that then opens up the possibility of putting him away for 20 years then charging him in another country for another term (as long as their judicial limitations allow it)
Forget terrorism, Surely he is guilty of mass murder. He should receive a life sentence for everybody he killed.

That'll keep him in.

Hom3r 26-07-2011 13:00
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
lawyer calims he might be insane:rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...Geir_Lippestad

No poo Sherlock, like a sane man would kill children.

Any bets that Norway changes its prison times for mass murderers after this.

Question about the max 21 years is that for all the deaths or each death?

downquark1 26-07-2011 13:04
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35278679)
lawyer calims he might be insane:rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...Geir_Lippestad

No poo Sherlock, like a sane man would kill children.

Any bets that Norway changes its prison times for mass murderers after this.

Question about the max 21 years is that for all the deaths or each death?
Insanity has specific legal connotations that will affect his trial. I am actually inclined to say he's not insane.

Mick 26-07-2011 13:08
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Very easy to play the insanity card - I think he knows that what he has done was completely wrong and against the law even though he has denied that, I think he is more than likely annoyed with himself now for not turning the gun on himself.

Maggy 26-07-2011 16:47
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35278684)
Very easy to play the insanity card - I think he knows that what he has done was completely wrong and against the law even though he has denied that, I think he is more than likely annoyed with himself now for not turning the gun on himself.
What I want him to see is how his actions had completely the wrong effect and has actually melded Norwegian society together..

idi banashapan 26-07-2011 17:01
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35278684)
Very easy to play the insanity card - I think he knows that what he has done was completely wrong and against the law even though he has denied that, I think he is more than likely annoyed with himself now for not turning the gun on himself.
I think he believes what he did was right. from what I've read and images (which are limited, but telling, none the less) I've seen of him since the attacks, he is apparently eating well, talking openly and frankly about what he did, is co-operating fully with the police, is calm and shows no remorse for his actions. these behaviours after commiting such acts would be consistent with a level of self-belief, not guilt or shame which he would have to show were he to 'know' what he did was wrong.

I feel this is down to paranoia and narcissism and maybe even sociopathic tendancies. he's going to love being in the spotlight over this. it will help him get his 'message' to the masses. the media is giving him exactly what he wants - notoriety and elevation. if he didn't want to see that happen, he would likely have put a bullet in his own head after the attacks were complete, but he let himself be caught and arrested.

he's obviously a dangerous man, and he likes that label. hopefully, he won't like being locked up for life. I think his only fear in this whole scenario is that he gets forgotten about. he had to do something big in order to be remembered, but will we remember his name in a year's time? that's what he is worried about, imo.

denphone 26-07-2011 17:07
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
To me the most appropriate punishment for this evil man is the death penalty.

Damien 26-07-2011 17:17
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
He sounds like a Psychopath. Lack of empathy is pretty much the textbook definition.

TheDaddy 26-07-2011 17:31
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35278684)
Very easy to play the insanity card - I think he knows that what he has done was completely wrong and against the law even though he has denied that, I think he is more than likely annoyed with himself now for not turning the gun on himself.
He said it was wrong but necessary and I don't think it was ever his intention to shoot himself or allow the authorities to shoot him either. What has annoyed the little twerp is that his case was heard behind a closed session so he couldn't spout of his motives or ideology, plus he's being kept in solitary for 28 days so he doesn't even have the prison audience.

idi banashapan 26-07-2011 17:35
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35278779)
He sounds like a Psychopath. Lack of empathy is pretty much the textbook definition.
lack of empathy is more noticable in sociopathy. Psychopaths are good at emulating emotion in order to gain trust and thus increase the chances of success when building abond or blend. without knowing if he shows any kind of emotive traits (be them real or fake), it's hard to pinpoint.

at this stage, it's better to look at other traits, such as does he have a social life? can he hold a steady job? is he of a nervous disposition? where the attacks planned? it's these that will give us as civilians a better understanding (obviously, those interviewing him will know a lot better than us). if he is more social, it points to Psychopathy. if he holds a steady job, it points to psychopathy. if he isn't a nervous type, it points to psychopathy. if the planned the attacks maticulously, it points to psychopathy.

I'm pretty sure someone who is building the profile will have a lot of info available to them, including the man himself. but just going by a lack of shown empathy alone is not enough.

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35278791)
He said it was wrong but necessary and I don't think it was ever his intention to shoot himself or allow the authorities to shoot him either. What has annoyed the little twerp is that his case was heard behind a closed session so he couldn't spout of his motives or ideology, plus he's being kept in solitary for 28 days so he doesn't even have the prison audience.
exactly right. it must be doing his head in.

Hom3r 26-07-2011 19:30
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Texts between Mother & daughter (she survived)

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor..._Julie_Bremnes

denphone 26-07-2011 19:35
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35278859)
Texts between Mother & daughter (she survived)

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor..._Julie_Bremnes

How terrifying for them both in this unbelievable situation.

martyh 26-07-2011 20:12
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35278679)

Question about the max 21 years is that for all the deaths or each death?
I would imagine that he could get life for each sentence ,as in this country the Norwegian judge could rule that the sentences run consecutively as opposed to concurrently.
They also have a sentance called "containment" which is set at 21 yrs with parole after 10yrs ,if the offender is still deemed a threat then another 5 yrs can added once that has finished the prisoner can have further 5yr terms added so in theory he could end up serving actual life

Quote:
The maximum indeterminate penalty, called "containment" (Norwegian: forvaring), is also set at 21 years imprisonment, and the prisoner is required to serve at least 10 years before becoming eligible for parole. "Containment" is used when the prisoner is deemed a danger to society and there is a great chance of committing violent crimes in the future. If the prisoner is still considered dangerous after serving the original sentence, the prisoner can receive up to five years additional containment. If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment.[2] However, the offender can be paroled or released at any time if it is determined that the offender is no longer a danger to society
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_im...ment_in_Norway

nashville 26-07-2011 20:33
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
This is so unbelievable. My hear goes out to all the families. They will never get over this disaster. My prayers are with them.

denphone 27-07-2011 08:48
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Just saw this on one of the online newspapers sites and quite worrying it is as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ting-live.html

devilincarnate 27-07-2011 16:09
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35279001)
Just saw this on one of the online newspapers sites and quite worrying it is as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ting-live.html
I would be worried about this as well?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14315108

downquark1 27-07-2011 16:22
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35279157)
I would be worried about this as well?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14315108
It should be noted that his manifesto is incredibly large and detailed (I happen to know he played some of my favourite games for instance and he likes top gear) and while most of it is completely nuts, there are bits that if you cut out look liberal and sensible compared to your average daily mail column.

devilincarnate 27-07-2011 16:38
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 35279164)
It should be noted that his manifesto is incredibly large and detailed (I happen to know he played some of my favourite games for instance and he likes top gear) and while most of it is completely nuts, there are bits that if you cut out look liberal and sensible compared to your average daily mail column.
Never read the Daily Mail so can not comment on that:erm:

Cobbydaler 29-07-2011 23:25
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
You can show your abhorrence / support for the victims of the killings here:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/lenke.php

Click on Klikk her for å styrke lenken and enter your details...

Maggy 30-07-2011 08:42
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/30/wo..._r=1&ref=world

Quote:
On a sunny, placid Friday one week ago Marcel Gleffe was relaxing at Utvika, a pristine campsite on Lake Tyrifjorden not far from here, when he recognized the sound coming from Utoya, an island less than a half-mile away. Some at the camp thought it was fireworks. No, said Mr. Gleffe, a German with a military background, it was gunfire.
Without pausing to consider that he might be thrusting himself directly in harm’s way, Mr. Gleffe ran to his Pioneer 15 motorboat, gunned the engine and pointed the boat toward Utoya. “For the first trip,” he told the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet, “I was all alone.”
By the time the police arrived at least an hour later and ordered him to stop, Mr. Gleffe said, he had made four or five trips to Utoya and picked up 20 to 30 people.

denphone 30-07-2011 08:47
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35280618)
What a hero for risking his own life to save others.

Tezcatlipoca 30-07-2011 13:18
Re: Norway: Terror attacks
 
Morrissey: 'McDonald's, KFC worse than Norway massacre'

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalSpy
Morrissey has suggested that the actions of the fast food industry are worse than the recent massacre in Norway.

The ex-Smiths frontman compared the behaviour of McDonald's and Kentucky Fried Chicken to that of Anders Behring Breivik, who killed at least 76 people in two terrorist attacks at the weekend, The Mirror reports.

Before playing 'Meat Is Murder' at the Stodola Club in Warsaw, Poland, Morrissey said: "We all live in a murderous world, as the events in Norway have shown, with 97 dead.

"Though that is nothing compared to what happens in McDonald's and Kentucky Fried <removed> every day."

(snip)

As always, NewsThump has a good take on it:

"Your leather sofa is worse than the holocaust, insists Morrissey"

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewsThump
Leather sofas sold by high street retailer DFS are five and a half times worse than the holocaust, claimed eighties singer Morrissey last night.

The former Smiths frontman, on a visit to his hometown, accosted shoppers at DFS’s Wythenshawe branch as they browsed the latest furniture designs during their lunch hour.

The singer has called on people with television sets not to be taken in by adverts featuring smiling families cuddled up on a huge leather settees, and likened the featured actors to members of the Gestapo.

“In my eyes they are no better,” he told us, “Sure, they’re only doing what they’re told by the director, but is that really an excuse?”

“Oh – and check out the blonde woman. Enough said.”
Morrissey outrage

Morrissey has since been barred from the store after telling a six year-old girl that she was sitting on a dead animal and “how would she like it if someone came round to her house and turned Daddy into an L-shaped leather recliner with a moustache”.

(snip)


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