Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

THE UK gay humanist charity the Pink Triangle Trust (PTT) has warmly welcomed unveiling on Friday by the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh of a memorial at Bletchley Park to honour those who played a pivotal role in decryption operations during World War II, including the celebrated gay codebreaker and founder of the modern computer Alan Turing, who was driven to suicide by homophobic bigotry.


Full Story can be read here..

http://freethinker.co.uk/2011/07/17/...-by-the-queen/

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

As far as l am concerned Alan Turing and the others totally deserved to be honoured and whatever his sexual preferences are this does not come into it and shame on those who drove him to suicide.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Agreed.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Orientation, dear boy, not preference....;)

That is like saying someone has an preference for their eyes to be blue - they are either blue, or they aren't - one's "preferences" don't come into it....

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Very well done and should have been done before?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Yes headmaster Hugh and Sir you will not give detention tonight will you.;):);)

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I knew what he was saying. :D

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

OK then another thread going off topic? All the people in the OP due to have some respect.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Very much overdue..:)

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Could not have said it better myself and "LEST WE FORGET"

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Not off-topic, clarification....;)

btw, I trained at Bletchley Park, so I have a great deal of respect for Turing and all his compatriots.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Hugh I did not quote anyone in the post that I did? Sorry if I got it wrong in my post:(

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Indeed, the man was a genius

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

why is there so much emphasis on him being gay and a Atheist? what has that got to do with his achievements at Bletchley

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I think that due to the day and age that he was both of the things that you have stated? Just my opinion and thoughts?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I think him being gay was an issue at the time. so that's understandable. but him not believing in all things God. I don't see that being relevant.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

this is what always makes me laff about when the Media reports things about us Gays especially if its a sex scandal. They always go over the top and try to make out we are all upto the kind of things that whoever is getting reported about for e.g. George Michael and the Bogs.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

so why bother including his sexual preference and religious preference in the title of the thread it makes it read like being gay and a atheist is somehow contributory to his genius when in fact neither are anything special

and yes it is about time he was honoured

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Religion and sexual preference seem to be taking over a thread again? It seems to the ones that start off with a little bit of politics? The world is made up of all kinds and we should all just get along.

As I said before " LEST WE FORGET"

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

A bit hard to avoid it when both are referenced in the thread title.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

The overtone of the thread was sexual orientation, nothing was taken over.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Fantastic tribute to Alan Turing and the rest of the codebreakers but I also have to ask what his sexual orientation and athiest views are to do with the honour??? Though looking at the site which you've linked the main story to I'm not surprised to see that it's an attempt to drag the story in a direction that isn;t relevant. :rolleyes:

Here's a more relevant and sensible link which isn't trying to desperately use the unvieling as a political soapbox!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14164529

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

None what so ever.

The man was a genius and still would have been if he had been a believer and straight.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I will say SORRY for the posts that i have done?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Quite a scary site and I can assure most definitely not the voice of atheism any more than fundamentalism is the voice of Christianity whatever their opinion of themselves.

Obsession with sexuality isn't particularly becoming either. Not a great touchstone on your life when you define yourself by the gender of the people you have sex with. Making a big deal of such things doesn't really help breed tolerance or indifference.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Thanks Kymmy a much more relevant article ,it doesn't mention Turin or his gayness or his atheism just everybody who worked there during the war years ..as it should be :tu:

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

This has also come 4 days after another Bletchley article on the BBC site referencing the three Polish mathematicians who were crucial tot he enigma code cracking

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...herts-14141406

As for the first post in this thread is sounds like someones taking Little Britain's "Only gay in the village" a bit too seriously :rolleyes:

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

My feelings exactly :tu:

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

ditto

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

because i just copied and pasted the headline thats why

---------- Post added at 18:52 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

The Media in this has an obsession with Sexuality with men more than women and whats sickening about it tho it does start at a very young age. People have been speculating about the likes of Justin Bieber and Tom Daley since they were about 14yo.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I guessed that ,my issue with it is that your thread title concentrates on Turin being gay and an athiest when in fact the honour is for everyone who worked at Bletcheley not just for Turin

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

erm ,the beeb link from Kymmy doesn't mention Turin or him being gay or an atheist it quite rightly devotes the article to Bletcheley and everyone who worked there

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Because the OP has an axe to grind, and chose to kick off the thread by quoting a pressure group with a similar axe to grind.

The memorial unveiled at Bletchley has nothing to do with anybody's sexuality and it cheapens the massive achievement of those to whom it is dedicated that the occasion is being used as a means of promoting any agenda other than the need to properly recognise the contributions of everyone who played a part in defending their country - especially those whose roles are not the sort that are normally held in high honour, or were of necessity kept out of sight and in secret.

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Anybody interested in reading a slightly less skewed report of events could try reading this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-2314335.html

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

He was leaned on,prevented from doing the sort of work he did during the war in case he was 'blackmailed' and generally hounded by the society that originally couldn't give a toss about his sexuality during the war because what he was doing was too important.However during the 'cold war' any one who was homosexual was viewed as being a possible security risk and therefore not fit for certain high security risk jobs.

Eventually he ate a cyanide impregnated apple as a form of suicide.

So yes his sexuality played a great part in how he was dealt with.
It was a great shame as we lost one of the most wonderful minds of the 20th century far too early.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Gay Atheist Hero sounds like a really awful idea for a comic book.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Well change the title then..it does seem a bit over the top,especially the Atheist bit.;)

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Complaining about a media obsession with sexuality and quoting an article utterly obsessed with sexuality along with a healthy dose of aggressive atheism aren't really compatible.

I keep in touch with the lovely Dr Sue Black via Twitter, she was actually there for the Queen's visit and has been a huge evangelist for Bletchley Park. I'll ask her what she thinks of that story.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Not so much emphasis as focus. Nothing to do with his achievements, but because he chose to end his life due to persecution re his sexual orientation...

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

non of which has anything to do with the honour that the workers at Bletchley received .

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

No. It's not an honour to Turing, but to the workers in general, of which he was one. The Pink Triangle Trust has decided to focus on Turing though. In (not so) related news, a charity campaigner has called for mandatory sun safety policies for schools. It's what pressure groups do. Drawing attention (often rather single-mindedly) to whatever their focus is.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Sadly, I have to agree.
Spies, infiltrates, intellgensia, etc, had to be beyond blackmail of any kind. There was only one out way of it for him - it was either of their own doing or others'.
His sexuality made him vulnerable to blackmail or worse in those days.
I expect that nothing much has changed since.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

A little worse than that Maggy. He had his security clearances revoked, was fired from every project he was involved with at the time, Arrested, criminally charged and prosecuted (Homosexuality was illegal at the time) and chemically castrated which no doubt led to his suicide. (Although his family said his death was accidental).

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Royal pardon for Turing. Guess some on here will say it ignores the contribution of others who served at Bletchley Park...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Its about time to :clap:

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Seconded.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Hopefully there will be more pardons coming for others convicted of the same 'crime'.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Know the name & what he done, but didn't know he was a convicted homosexual :dunce:
Its a shame that it has taken so long, but at least its happened. Im sure there are many others who had done just as much & they also are deserving of pardons.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Sadly it's just too late. We could have had access to a truly great mind for a lot longer. :(

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Exactly my thoughts ,what about joe bloggs who did nothing apart from be a normal guy ,are they any less deserving because they weren't famous ?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Long overdue. Such a waste of genius!

:clap:

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Did they contribute this much to the war effort?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419691

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

does it matter ? or is the correction of an injustice only available to those who where famous or contributed x amount to society

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

No, it should be equal treatment for all.

However, we have always treated those, in time of war and other times, differently when they made major contributions - Winston Churchill, Sir Barnes Wallis, and many, many others.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Well lets hope this is taken as a precedent and all those convicted and castrated for being openly gay are pardoned,some may even still be alive .

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for equality - but do you really think there will ever be 'equal treatment for all', seeing as we are all different?

Lefty and PC types may be happy to deny this but we do all judge on appearances - it's a human trait seeing as we're hunters and sight is our primary sense. The difference of course is when someone is judged negatively on their appearance. But even then that's not such a bad thing necessarily. If I see a gang of chavs on a street corner and I need to walk past them I'm going to be quietly on my guard - that's self preservation.

If you break down and call out the AA, when you see the van pull up you expect the driver to be male. If it turns out to be female and you assume she won't be able to fix your car as a result then yes that's where problems start.

My point is whereas we should aim for true equality, I think human nature dictates that will never happen.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Well I wonder just how many of those 50,000 Tatchell is muttering about would have made any real contributions to society?Indeed how many would have been criminals and useless to society?

Having got that off my chest I'm perfectly happy for every maligned gay to be pardoned..BUT if it must start somewhere why not with Turing?Why must we seek to downplay his contributions?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Was this guy's "crime" that he admitted to being gay or that he did something associated with being gay?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

no bodies downplaying his contributions Maggie ,it is fitting that his contributions are recognised but it is not fitting imo that everyone else who broke the law in the same way remain criminals whilst Turing is singled out and decriminalised

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

He simply admitted to a homosexual relationship during an investigation for a burglary according to wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Tu..._for_indecency

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I'm on my tablet and for some reason links aren't working for me today - so if I've got this right he wasn't prosecuted for admitting to being gay, just that he was in a gay relationship (which presumably was illegal at that time)?

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

here's the relevant section from wiki

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

We will never all be the same as we are all (mostly) different, with different abilities and views - there should, however, be equality of opportunity; we should all have the opportunity to succeed, without being held back by perceptions because of race, colour, sexuality, sexual orientation, etc. etc.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

I've seen many posts like this on forums, but "chavs" is sometimes replaced with other words, including "blacks".

What are "PC types"? People who support political correctness? Something that has caused people to be more considerate of others? Yeah, what a terrible thing that is. Cue examples of "political correctness gone mad!", lol.

The reason for prejudice is not human nature. It's largely propagated via fear-mongering from the mass media and government, as well as things being considered societal norms of the time. There is nothing innate that makes a person paranoid of a group of teenagers on the street if they're wearing particular clothing, in fact, that is wholly irrational.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Not on here it's not.


No, people who take it to extremes. I remember a good few years back when Robert Kilroy-Silk had his chat show and they were discussing some sort of race-related issue and there was a very loud and opinionated "lefty" woman who had to have something to say about everything. In principle her suggestions and notions weren't bad - she was anti-racism but she became more and more ridiculous, culminating at one point where the black guy sitting next to her spoke up about peoples' initial reactions to him in the street "...as a black man". When RK-S turned to her for an opinion she turned to the guy and said "Well I didn't even realise you were black".

There was a member on here once called "HatedByTheMail", he used to stumble over himself trying to show how PC he was, and one time some topic turned to 'chavs' and wanting to show how 'totally' non-judgemental and anti-labelling he was, when asked what he though of chavs he replied "I honestly don't know what that word means".

Quite.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Only because the forum rules dictate otherwise and because saying "I would cross the street because of a group of chavs" is a socially acceptable thing to say. If you think it's because nobody here is thinking it, you're naive.

I'm not sure what the above is. Is it a rebuttal to anything I said?

I think you're cherry picking to deliberately misrepresent what being "PC" is. Political correctness is a good thing. Most people who are "anti-PC" are just people who are upset that their prejudices are no longer socially acceptable.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

You made the reference to other forums.


You asked what "PC types" were.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Again, these are not rebuttals or discussion points. They are simply statements that say "you did X and Y". They would be useful if my memory was as long as that of a goldfish.

But I would wholly disagree with your definition of "PC types" being "people who take it to extremes". That's simply cherry picking so you can continue you to attack all "PC types" and a general "lefty" point of view, without which, Alan Turing would not have been honoured BTW.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

OK I'm confused. You asked a question, I gave my answer. Are we not reading the same forum?

One of the benefits of a democracy is you have the absolute right to disagree with my definition however I stand by it.

I do need to correct you though, I am not attacking political correctness. Just when it is applied with overzealousness. I'm guessing you're trying to pigeon-hole me as someone unhappy at having prejudices being blocked. If so nothing could be further from the truth.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

You didn't answer my question though, even if you believe that you did.

You can stand by an incorrect definition if that suits your stance, but it only makes what you say even more transparent.

Except you used the terms "lefty" and "PC types". I'm a little confused as to whether you see all "lefties" and "PC types" as extremists, which is demonstrably false, or whether you were just unclear in the point you were making.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

(Sigh)

This is getting tedious now. I'm sorry if the answer I gave did not follow how you wanted me to reply but answer it I did.

Just because I said something that you disagree with does not make me "wrong" any more than it make you "right". That's circular reasoning: "I'm right because I say I am".

As far as I know there are no universal definitions of "lefty" or "PC types". You asked for MY definition and I gave it. That you disagree with it is your right but again does not automatically make me "wrong" other than in your opinion.

There is a difference between being politically correct (most of the time a good thing) and being a "PC type".

Hope this finally clarifies the point I've been making.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

No, I was saying that you didn't answer my question at all, not that the answer you gave was "wrong".

As for PC types, given some of the other posts I've read on here from you, I think I'm having a discussion with the intellectual equivalent of a hamster rolling about in one of those little plastic balls, not quite sure of its aim, unable to express its point, but carrying on regardless. Have fun with that.

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

Resorting to insults.... :rolleyes:

Re: Gay atheist hero and genius Alan Turing honoured by the Queen
 

There was a thing about Turing on QI XIL