ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

More:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...ned-by-the-asa
and
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adj...ADJ_50892.aspx

Discuss. :)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Considering VM sell an "up to" service, I think they're as bad as the rest. :)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Personally l do not think they did anything wrong myself as it seems its alright for the others to mislead consumers and their own customers in their adverts which they consistently do especially Sky and yet Virgin just pointed what is well known as the truth.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Rightly so too.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Next thing will be VM renaming each package, up too 100mb will now be up too 500mb etc.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

This isn't about Virgin Media or SKY misleading consumers about how fantastic their own service is (for once) It's about Virgin Media going out of their way to drag their rivals through the mud.

Virgin just pointed what is well known as an opinion.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

I'd like to see "at least"....

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Good News!

it was merely a smoke screen and they knew it.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Now thats a fantastic suggestion.

I don't see what was wrong with Virgin's campaign. Obviously the ASA would prefer people were miss-lead with this "up to" rubbish.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Yes definitely.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

If you want a service level agreement, expect the price to rise - we pay for a contended service, not a 1:1 service; the costs differ greatly.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

It did what was intended ;) and its made its point :LOL:

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Exactly.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The cost per customer should be decided on a 'what is actually recieved at the premises' basis rather than a 'what might be recieved if you live in the exchange or if your area wasn't over subscribed' basis.

After all, as far as I am aware, the quality or fit for purpose standard, is the purveyors sole responsibility. Why should ISP's get away with selling products of a not fit for purpose quality at full price.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Would that be per second, per hour, per day, per site, an average of week?

Where would you measure the speed from? From the CTMS, a local server, a remote server?

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

I'd be happy with that as I'd be paying VM less than half of what I do now for my seriously contended 10Mb/s "fibre optic broadband". It hasn't always been like this, a few years ago it was rock solid, but has deteriorated to 2Mb/s - 5Mb/s at peak times!!!

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

It's very ironic isn't it that Virgin accuse other ISP's of conning people when their are customers of theirs getting nowhere near their advertised speed at peak times.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

I'm getting a large sense of deja vu. I'm sure this thread is following exactly the same discussion as when the original ads came out

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

And where is your proof Muppetman as Virgin gets far less complaints and more awards then anybody else and delivers speeds near their advertised speeds nearly all the time and the others deliver speeds nowhere near their so called claimed speeds.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The thing is with the people that don't get the advertised speeds is it all works off percentages.

For example if they stated 80% of 50mb subscribers hit the advertised speeds I'd find that acceptable knowing that we are miles away from problem-free broadband.

Then sky release figures of a mere 20% of customers get the advertised speeds which is unacceptable

The above are examples and in no way represent Virgin or Sky

He does not need proof as no broadband is fail-proof and there will always be complaints but I agree with what you are saying by delivering your evidence of Virgin's multiple awards and fewer complaints than other ISP's

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Couldn't have put that any better I'm not calling VM BB I get a rock solid 30mb consistently , I'm merely pointing out no ISP is perfect including VM. There will always be over contended areas and faults on any network.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

And here is the latest example of Virgin's superiority.


https://shop.virginmedia.com/broadba...explained.html

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

And https://shop.virginmedia.com/broadba...d-matters.html

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

I think VM's original point was, comparing 'up to' on ADSL with 'up to' on cable is like comparing apples with pears.

On ADSL, the 'up to' speed is the max achievable by the technology employed. Telling me I can get 'up to 8Mb' is like telling me I can go 'up to 200 mph' when I buy a Fiat 500, just because the technology (i.e. 4 wheels and an internal combustion engine) is capable of it. The hard fact is, the way the technology is deployed in a Fiat 500 means it's physically impossible for it to get anywhere near 200mph. Same goes for my own ADSL line. The kit in the exchange may use technology that can deliver 8Mb, but there is absolutely no way it can do that for me due to the physical qualities of my bit of the network (extreme line length).

VM, on the other hand, are selling you a service that is capable of going exactly as fast as it says it can, limited only by the congestion you may experience at any given time of day ... much as a motorway may at times get so busy that the effect is to limit the speed you can go.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The thing that annoys me about Virgin is they are too smug. they come across as they'll use anything like this to their advantage. but what's worst is that they come across like an outfit that are really out to con you and it's all a front.
(this is just my opinion)

comparing connection speeds from a telephone provider to a cable 'fibre optic' provider? they know very well that a phone lines speed depends on how close to the exchange the customer is. don't insult our intelligence. peeelllleeeeaaaaasseeeeee!!!

oh and then you got the speed drops with cable after 5 or so minutes of using it.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Nice analogy :D

How did you know I drove a Fiat 500 ;-)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Wishful thinking ... that is, I wish we had one. :D

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Because only a muppet would ;) :D

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Because only a muppet would ;)



Is it Kermit by any chance.:D:D;):D:D

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The quality of a connection could be graded into Bands A, B, C and maybe D.

Based of the real world speed, packet loss and jitter to and from a remote server set up by the ISP.

Individule results could be averaged out to form a regional or area Band and charged accordingly until such time as conditions change, for better or worse.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Agreed, in theory it's capable of doing just that, in reality it's only allowed for 10 hrs a day, and is heavily reliant on not living in an oversubscribed area to do so.

What with STM, application throttling, and threats to cut you off if you hit an (as yet) undefined limit during peak hours, Virgin Media is in danger of loosing the ground it once held without any effort, to the very companies it keeps slinging mud at.

I guess what I'm saying is, that I would like to drive VM's Ferrari like connection with petrol in the tank, and air in the tyres for more than just 10 hrs a day, and also not be expected to do so when I should be in bed fast asleep :)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The 10mb service has a 1500mb download limit between 4-9pm meaning if you streamed a movie in HD at 4pm by 6pm you would be throttled right down to 2.5mb.

And if it's ok I'll stick to my Fiat 500 ;)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

And the problem with averages is ... that they are averages!

Several years ago I got fed up with the ATM at my local bank being out of order when I visited it. I went into the bank and asked to see the manager, his response to my complaint was that the average availability of their ATMs was 98%. My reply to this was that although an ATM may be available at 3am it is no good to me if it is unavailable at 3pm!

And by the same reasoning if I wish to use the full capacity of my broadband service at 5pm and it is only delivering download speeds of 2Mb/s and e.g. can't deliver a YouTube video without stalling, something which my neighbour next door can achieve on BT "up to 8Mb", I don't wish to be told that I can do it at 5am when magically my broadband will deliver 10Mb/s and YouTube streams faultlessly!!!!!!!

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Conning people is pretty common nowerdays, companies suck you in with false & misleading promises, then screw you with price increases whilst your tied into a 12 month contrick, (Sorry, contract!)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

If Virgin are so superior perhaps they would be good enough to remove the traffic shaping and throttling from their network, as surely being so superior they cope without it?

Failing that if they are assured of their superiority why don't they have a rate guarantee as another cable company do?

No 'up to', a maximum and a minimum.

I do hope you're getting paid for spreading the good word on here.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

Yup this is what they all do.

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

Bit optimistic hoping people will actually read the adjudication. The usual suspects with tongues in Virgin Media's orifices will say it's all grossly unfair, the usual people who loathe the company will say that it's great and proves their point that they murder babies.

The adjudication itself is perfectly sensible on all points. Whatever the fundamental message and its validity it was lost in hyperbole and mud slinging.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

That's the problem with negative advertising - sooner or later it will come back and bite you in the ass.....

Naughty VM.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Absolutely.

Dragging others through the mud for "Up to" advertising when most of the "Up to" is out of their control, and when your own service is just as much clearly "Up to" (and all the speed drops are entirely within your control) is just plain hypocrisy.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The other 20% of Virgin customers are probably not using any anti-virus software and or using an old 486! :D

I have never found the speed test to give me less than 29MB on my 30MB connection.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

I don't have an issue with an "upto" as sometimes speed is out of control of the provider. Where it's not acceptable is to simply use "upto" as a means to sell a service that will never be able to provide that speed.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Very true :D My car can go up to 118MPH but I'am only allowed to do a maximum of 70MPH on the motorway:erm:

Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

More of a bluff i'd say

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

That article refers to Virgin's HFC as FTTP and fibre?

Virgin referring to their products as 'fibre' is a far greater con. That the ASA didn't stop them calling their product 'fibre optic' originally is disgusting. :(

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

The thing is right, is Virgin's broadband fibre or not?

Answer yes it is the whole backbone is Fibre.

Could BT and Sky and other companies advertise saying "our fibre optic broadband" simply put yes they could because there backbone is fibre.

Also why shouldn't Virgin be able to stop other companies advertising at those speed's considering probably about 30% if that of there customers, actually get anything above 2mb - 4mb where as I am guessing here at the pecentages but I reckon atleast 80+ of Virgin's customers get there max speed.

Not to mention that Virgin have or are curretly trialing 1.5gb connection's using fibre to the home so, if and when that get's released are you then going to say the same thing.

The funny thing I see is when companies including Virgin advertise "Unlimited Broadband" when they all and we all know it is not truly unlimited because of the traffic shaping.

I don't think any company should be able to advertise super fast broadband unless they are selling 100mb and upwards, simply because I don't consider anything less as superfast.

All the advertising I see from Sky and BT etc is false advertisment when it comes to speed, and from them all when they say unlimited especially when some companies will charge you per gb if you download more than 300gb a month.

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

By this reasoning, back when people were using dialup or ISDN it could have been marketed as 'fibre internet' because the entire backbone at that point was quite likely fibre.

The last mile matters. HFC has different performance characteristics to FTTH. Virgin's last mile is not fibre. They shouldn't be able to call it such.

For what it's worth, I'm also very annoyed by BT's VDSL2 (and resellers) being marketed as fibre. It's also clearly not.

If/when Virgin start actually running fibre to people's homes then of course I'm not going to say the same thing... because it wouldn't be true? It'd be brilliant if they did this on a broader scale!

Hangon, I just googled this and it's 1.5gb down and 150meg up, which sounds suspiciously like massive amounts of channel bonding on DOCSIS3? Prossibly not fibre.

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

VM are about to try fibre directly to the home but we are as yet not allowed to say where :)

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

In India probably.

Re: Was 'Stop The Broadband Con' Campaign a Con?
 

Showing your lack of intelligence again Gary its in Telford cables house ;)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

I knew you'd talk. you can't be trusted :)

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

The trial that was googled was I found out done on copper, where as the other one that is mentioned is actually on Fibre.

As for saying Sirius can't be trusted I think you need to think again especially considering he does know what he is on about.

I don't know you so I can't comment about you and I won't but I do know Sirius and believe me, when I say he can be trusted unless you know of some reason why he can't that I don't?

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Damien Gary was joking m8

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

If Virgin are so keen to stop the broadband con then they should start by reducing my bill. I don't get the speed I pay for, and when I want to watch iPlayer or YouTube they stutter and buffer like mad. They work on Vodafone 3G so it is not a site problem, it is a Virgin problem.

Either deliver what I pay for or give me some of my money back. Until they do that they can shut up about other ISPs conning their customers.

Re: ASA bans 'Stop the Broadband Con' campaign
 

Well I don't get the speed I pay for considering it says up to 50mb but I only get 48.5mb so I should have mine reduced as well.

Are you on Virgin's ADSL because if you are then that is the same as BT etc where you get a lower speed because of, distance and also the age old cable they still have around the country.

If you are on the normal cabled connection have you ever thought that your area might be oversubscribed, which if that is the case then when they have finished some of the work I have heard about, then that should be resolved.

As for the Youtube etc can I just ask do you happen to have VLC installed on your pc as when I had VLC installed I couldn't, stream video's from any site on the net but as soon as I took off VLC they worked without a problem.