David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Kirchner.html

And the rhetoric is pushed up a notch or two.

However could Britain be forced to hand over the Falklands to Argentina?Especially as the US is pushing for a settlement of the situation.

Also

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13803111

So are we in any position as a state to actually reinforce our position?

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland Islands, says Argentina pres
 

as long as thet want to remain under our soverenty then the argies can expect to have another battle ship sunk and a cruise missle up the jacksy if they want it back if the islanders want to be part of argentina fair enough

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland Islands, says Argentina pres
 

As you know l do not like David Cameron but who does this Argentine idiot think he's talking to and also what has it got to do with America and also yes with our increasingly stretched armed forces can we cope with any further military problems in the Falklands.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland Islands, says Argentina pres
 

I feel I should point out that he is a she..

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland Islands, says Argentina pres
 

l think l need a new brain transplant this morning as thats the second mistake l have made already today.:dozey::dozey::dozey:

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

its already settled- Argentina invaded. and got their ass kicked after inflicting unforgivable casualties to British forces ,i don't see whats up for negotiation .

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Just another example of how the US really views the so called 'special relationship'. IMHO the massive contribution the UK has made to their various escapades overseas counts for very little in the Whitehouse and the moment the US deems it's in their interests to support the other side they will. It seems to me that our politicians have placed their faith in securing US goodwill in return for British lives when they should have been using their leverage to negotiate formal defence agreements covering such issues as the Falklands.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Just so you understand WHY this has appeared on the news out of the blue.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Actually that's not the reason.

The reason it has become an issue and was raised at PM question time was because a chap called James Beck, whose father helped the British forces in 82, gave up his British passport for an Argentine one and Kirchner presented it to him personally (much to the annoyance of some MPs who raised the issue in the House).

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Our inability to re-take the Falklands is entirely matched by Argentina's inability to re-invade them in the first place.

Sir Sandy will say what he needs to say, competition for scant resources being what it is. Fact is, the hardware and personnel stationed in the Falklands these days means they are an absolute fortress compared to what was there pre-war in 1982. The chances of the Argentine military getting within 50 miles of the islands without being shot down or sunk are extremely remote. And the islands' best defence of all is that Argentina is now a democracy. Democratic governments are far less tolerant of military casualties than dictators.

Regardless of any diplomatic willy-waving, the islands will become Argentine only if the islanders ever wish it to happen. And that's unlikely to be ever.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

here's my statment COME AND HAVE A GO IF YOU THINK YOUR ARD ENOUGH

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

....unless sheep get a vote ;)

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

That seems to work quite well in this country...

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Too true.... :rofl:

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

I believe Sir Sandy really ought to learn to keep his big mouth shut..

I mean seriously, going out of his way to inform a potential enemy about how incapable we might be to retaliate, should they try to invade again..
How did this halfwit ever become an Admiral?

As for American pressure.. I guess Obama figure's the oil won't cost as much, if the Argentines are the one's supplying it..

I think it's about time we had Mrs Thatcher cloned, and made combat ready ASAP, as she never took any crap from any of them.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Oil ,they didn't show any real interest untill we started exploritory drilling last year in the surrounding waters .If we don't find oil will argentina still be so interested ,i think not

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

We don't want any military conflict and a possible resurgence of the 'war spirit' we got last time - Thatcher took full advantage of that to smash the unions and ruin this country by selling everything off, a classic example of disaster capitalism. She'd wanted to use shock therapy for years, but until the Falklands happened she had no excuse. 'There is no such thing as society' is classic capitalist thinking at its very worst.

Do we want Cameron et al to do something similar? I sure as hell don't. The country's in enough of a mess as it is.

(See Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine for details of disaster capitalism)

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

I stand corrected Sir :)

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------

We dont have the ability to defend the Falklands any more. Infact i dont think we could defend our own country against anyone any more :rolleyes:

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Smash unions = A good thing. This country is run by a democratically elected Government, not a gang of Trotskyite coal miners.

Selling everything off = A good thing. The democratically elected government of this country should concentrate on creating a safe environment where people can live their own lives according to their own choices, not trying to sell us gas, electricity and telephones.

Quote:

'There is no such thing as society' is classic capitalist thinking at its very worst.

Actually it's a classic example of a quote gleefully wrenched out of context and repeated so often that few people bother to question what she actually said and what she actually meant.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

i thought the Falklands was more heavily defended than the UK ;)
from what i understand the uk's main line of defence is mothballs .

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Anytime an argentinian politician wants to rouse the population they bring up the falklands and as soon as they achieve their short term goal they drop it again. As for the US wanting this settled well time to tell them to sod off really it has nothing to do with them and the only reason they want a settlement is so US oil companys can move in on any sizeable oil fields found.

Could we defend the falklands as we did last time currently no we couldn't we don't have the naval power right now to do it and i doubt the political will if we did have the naval forces. But as Chris said the falklands are not the easy target they once were and it would be a brave argie admiral\general that fancied his chances anytime soon.

End of the day we gave an assurance to the islanders that as long as the majority of them wanted to remain UK citizens their wishes would be met and if we were to ever break that promise i think it would be a dark day for the UK as a whole.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

It's one of my favourite self contradictory quotes of all time and, I suspect, one of the first signs that the cheese was starting to slide off her cracker.

"They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society"

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

I know what the words she said were - what she meant was, society is not a faceless mass that simply takes on problems and deal with them without there being any consequences for anyone else. It is comprised of real, individual people - i.e. when someone absolves themselves of their problems, they make them someone else's problem.

That's a problem that in many ways still exists today. We have a well-known member of this very forum who posts repeatedly to say that his main criterion for voting is to choose a government that will "look after me and my family". That's a nonsense; we are not clients of a faceless State any more than we are the dependants of a faceless Society. The State is paid for by real people; society is made of real people. Everything we feel entitled to receive, ultimately is provided by other people.

End of off-topic rant.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

You are trying to tar every union with the same brush and my dad was a union shop steward and he was never confrontational with anybody and always tryed to come to a amicable solution if he could.

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

We get told off for going off topic.;)

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Indeed we do ... naughty me. I hereby suspend myself from the forum for 10 minutes :p:

Re your dad ... I don't doubt it - but then 'smash the unions' is equally a somewhat hysterical and sweeping generalisation, wouldn't you agree?

If I smash a glass or a plate, generally it ceases to exist and I have to throw the broken bits in the bin.

The trades unions still exist, however the worst excesses of the abuse of power that gave industrial relations such a bad name in the 1970s are, thankfully, curbed.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

I'm sure in her dotage she's glad you're here to interpret her intent for her Chris.

If that's what a certain well known member of this forum sets his main criterion for voting as then well done him for exercising his democratic right and having the wherewithall to have a barometer by which he feels he can judge a potential Government.

Who are you, I or anyone else who believes in a democracy, to assert that his moral barometer is "a nonsense"?

END.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Yes l do agree that it is a hysterical and sweeping generalisation and l do agree that there were some union leaders one in particular Arthur Scargill who was a absolute idiot and he never helped his members at all and in matter of fact made things much much worse for them.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

they wount dare 2 words

nuclear submarine

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Flt. Lt. William Wales is following in his uncle Andrew's rotor blades and heading south to fly helicopters in the Falklands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15682242

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

So when are the Argies going to invade ?

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Not a chance, their military has been cut even more than ours since the 80s.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

but when unky andy was there some naughty people were trying to kill him :)

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Unky Andy was trying to kill some of the naughty people too ... this time the royal posting is purely with the aim of saving lives though, as he is on detachment with a search-and-rescue team.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

i think that with britain cutting defence, oil discoved in the falklands, all of south america behind argentinas claim, and argetina continuting to claim those islands, plus david cameron losing popularty (like the Maggie before the falklands war), war is coming, when is another matter

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Who is going to fight it?

We have no aircraft carriers at present and when we do we will have to borrow some planes to put on those carriers..we are cutting naval,army and RAF staff as well as in hardware.. Argentina have also been forced to make cutbacks in their military.

There will just be a war of rhetoric but not of armaments.;)

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Argentina's military spending is almost the smallest in South America and its infrastructure and equipment has had little in the way of upgrades since 1983.

Despite our own spending cuts, the UK's military is technologically far more advanced than it was in the early 1980s and there is a lot more hardware deployed to the Falklands also. Even if they fancied having a go, Argentina couldn't get near enough to the islands to land on them.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

i have no idea if britain can fight a war against argentina

but it was defence cut in the uk the encoruged argentina to start this war, a mistake then and now

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

what if the other south americans join in, they back argentinas claim

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Defence cuts led to a catastrophic miscalculation of British resolve on the part of the military dictatorship that ruled Argentina at the time. Argentina and its government are now both very different. They may still want the Falklands back but they have neither the political will nor the resources to take them by force.

Prince William has nothing more to worry about during his forthcoming tour than fishermen getting blown overboard in the South Atlantic.

---------- Post added at 12:17 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------

They are also democracies with economies and international reputations to protect. It won't happen.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

well i hope that britain and argentina have another war, ultimately they should talking about a agreement:

maybe they should have a Referendum on the falklands to deiside their future

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Territorial claims causes in the constitutions of foreign countries really aren't worth sending people to die for. They are simply ink on paper and nothing more. Such things only become a problem when they are used to legitimise military activity.

But the military activity needs more than a bare territorial claim to be worth the cost. It was worth it to the military government of Argentina in 1982 because military dictatorships are by their nature attracted to military solutions. They had a problem with their domestic popularity and saw military action in pursuit of a popular cause as a solution.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

There is not going to be another falklands war argentina is not that stupid the cost to them would be horrendous and very likely a complete fail. Falklands are secure for what threat they face and that will be the case for the foreseeable future no government in the UK can afford to let those islands go as long as the population there wants to be british and that also shows no signs of changing in our lifetimes.

It's all a moot argument it really is something that might be fun to hypothesise about but at the end of the day no actual physical activity will occur because of it again.

Falklands war part 2?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-15703340

The Duke of Cambridge's posting to the Falkland Islands has been condemned by Argentina as a "provocative act".

Britain says Prince William's deployment for training as a helicopter rescue pilot is routine.

But Argentine official Sebastian Brugo Marco said Argentina could not ignore the "political content" of the mission.

The prince's tour next year will come shortly before the 30th anniversary of Argentina's defeat in the Falklands War.

Argentina still claims sovereignty over the islands, which it calls Las Malvinas.

Mr Brugo Marco, the Argentine official with responsibility for the South Atlantic territory, made his comments in an interview with the Argentine newspaper, La Nacion.

"It is one more provocative act that shows Britain's military presence in a zone of peace where there is no armed conflict," he said.

"One cannot ignore the political content of this military operation bearing in mind that the prince forms part of the Royal Family".

'Arrogant' Britain
The Royal Air force has stressed that the posting is a normal part of Prince William's training and says he will not perform any ceremonial duties.

His uncle, the Duke of York, served as a helicopter pilot in the 1982 conflict, when Argentina invaded the islands only to be defeated by a British task force.

Earlier this year Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner called Britain "arrogant" for refusing to negotiate on the islands.

Her government stepped up its campaign to gain sovereignty over the territory in 2010 after Britain started to search for oil in Falklands waters.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has said there can be no negotiations on the status of the islands unless the people of the Falklands want them.

Britain has ruled the Falklands for more than 180 years, but Argentina insists it has a prior claim.

Surely the sending of a member of the royal family is not a political or threatening move. If anything I think its a let's shove him out of the way then he does not get hurt move.

Re: Falklands war part 2?
 

Argentines are talking tough but thats all it is talk they are in no position to actually do anything about it and the falklands are not the easy target they once were. Of course there is nothing provacative in william doing a tour down there unless your looking for something to call provocative which they are.

Rattling of sabres for the benefit of the argentine public knowing they won't have to do anything about it.

Re: Falklands war part 2?
 

Falklands war part 2 some how i don't think so. The Argentines had there arses handed to them on a plate once i don't think they want it again.

Re: Falklands war part 2?
 

But Sirius, the last time the Royal navy had fighters that could operate from carriers like the Sea Harrier, now it would have to be long range support of tankers.

oh not to forget last time there was a decent navy left as well dont think the type 45's are that great for air defence myself and without air support a fleet is a sitting duck :(

Re: Falklands war part 2?
 

And with the cuts to our armed services, I think we could only send a slingshot this time.

Re: Falklands war part 2?
 

We could always call on our friends in America there always after oil ;). Because lets face it we can not trust the EU to help us against a common cold never mind the Argentinians

Re: Falklands war part 2?
 

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

If wiki is anywhere near accurate the defense looks poor, just 4 fighter jets. I am assuming there is a lot more then that the way people are posting its a fortress. If I am not mistaken our navy is weaker than in the 80s as well.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Neither side can AFFORD to go to war..except one of rhetoric and insult.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

If they are worried ship another squadron of euro fighters and tornados over and that will deter enough

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

The size of the navy is less important than how much of it is stationed at, or close to, the Falklands. Also, there were no fast jets stationed in the islands in 1982 - there wasn't even a runway that could serve them. There is now a whole new RAF base, RAF Mount Pleasant.

In 1982 the Argentine army was able to land on the islands unopposed and, once there, had only to over-run the modest garrison that was stationed near Stanley. Now, just getting close to the islands would be a costly business. Those four Typhoon jets and their armament are far superior to anything in the Argentine arsenal, which has suffered chronic lack of investment over the last 30 years.

The British military presence in the Falklands is a powerful deterrent against attack - an attack, incidentally, that the Argentine government has absolutely no intention of launching anyway.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Ok there is the RAF base which I already read, but how many planes?
How many troops?
Anti aircraft defenses?

A navy becomes important if we lose the island and need to reinvade.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

okay from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Mount_Pleasant

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

We could tell you but why let the Argies know? Keep them guessing..;)

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Not a lot is it 4 Euro Fighters.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

This is all it says?

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...landsbfsai.htm

http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/s...ation=Overseas

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

it is if you think that the most modern figthers of the Argies is a Mirage III or a IAI Finger (clone of the mirage 3)

see info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_air_force

Devil that looks like old info its 4 Euro's that are based there.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

indeed, I am assuming wiki is wrong as it should be classified info. Building an airbase for 4 planes doesnt make sense. Or maybe there was originally much more planes then cuts after cuts dwindled it down.

I am just assuming also tho that there is more info than I know as people seem confident somehow the island is heavily defended.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

Back in 1982 total heavy weapons for the defence of the islands consisted of four l7a1's and two 2" morters neither of which were in working condition. There were no prepared defensive positions or anyway on the islands themselves to detect an approach by hostile forces.

Now there are prepped defensive positions, working and better morters, light artillery, anti aircraft defences, surface to surface missile systems to engage incoming ships and anti armour missile systems as well. On top of that four fighter jets that on their own can probably hold off the argentine aurforce which is not a shadow of what it was in the 80's.

Not forgetting full radar coverage it is completely different now to the situation back then. There is zero chance of armed conflict over the islands again unless some complete lunatic gets power in argentina.

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

The reason for such a big base would be if trouble flares up again it would be sufficient enough for more planes and probably attack choppers being delivered by a big transport like the c17

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

The island is defended heavily enough to deter all but the most lunatic of generals. And the infrastructure is robust enough for the defences to be strengthened if there were ever a reason to do so.

RAF Mount Pleasant was not built for four planes. It just so happens that the current threat level only requires four planes.

As for four not being enough - this isn't the Battle of Britain. It is no longer necessary to launch waves of dozens of aircraft to mount an effective attack (or defence).

Re: David Cameron 'bordering on stupidity' over Falkland , says Argentina president
 

We have nearly handed them over twice before under Harold Wilson in 1968 and before the invasion itself under The Iron Lady herself, difference is now though that the islanders are British citizens and that there's a shed load of oil there now to of course.

As for the US we can't rely on them, they were backing Argentine claims before right up until invasion and it looks like it wont be any different this time around.

http://atlanticsentinel.com/2011/06/...-in-falklands/