Assisted Suicide.
 

Don't worry, I'm not considering it.

I'm just watching the excellent documentary from Terry Pratchett on this subject on BBC 2 and wondered about what people think.

Now, a polite request. People will have differing views on this, some guided by religion, and some by other beliefs. The request is that no one should tell anyone they are wrong. This is an emotive subject, and people are free to have their own opinion on it.

My opinion? IF someone is terminally ill and able to make the decision, are not considered a vulnerable member of society, they should, in conjunction with their family, be able to make the decision to die.

I don't think, however, that the family should be able to make the decision without the person, as I don't want families to get rid of ill relatives just because it's inconvenient.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Something the poll doesn't take into account is the "assisted" side to the argument.. It's all right choosing to die which the law doesn't prohibit against.. instead it's the assistance that is illegal in this country.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Adjusted.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I'm in two mind, mainly science is changing rapidly.

But I think it's strange that we put sick animals down to stop them suffering, but people are made to suffer!!!

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I think they should have the option. When people are towards the end of neurological conditions such as MS, ALS, etc then they face the prospect of waiting until the final part of their body goes. We have machines to keep them alive as various parts of their body fail. A lot seem to have to wait until they choke to death. A painless way out of that after the body has become useless seems a good idea.

However then you have the problem on where to draw the line. What is someone decides that their inability to walk was the final straw? What if they gave consent while able but entered a near vegetive state and wanted to withdraw that consent? What if family members, especially those with depression, feel they are a burden and feel pressured into killing themselves. Messy.

I am in favour of it but I can see why it's such a difficult issue.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Just watched it, my mind was racing between yes and no most of the time.... and I still don't know..

And being 42 my self, the same age as Andrew it sorta scared me..

Savage..

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

It's a pity that you mentioned God as a basis for one of the answers :(

and it doesn't really tie in to the actual question of
Do you think people should have the right to assistance if they decide to die? anyway

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

why ? for some people a religious belief will play a very important role in their decision and others will vote according to their beliefs

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I would like the choice to not be messed with too much and have the most peaceful ending possible. I would choose to have the same amount of resources, including personnel, funding, medication to 'let me go' with my full permission.
I might end up disappointed.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

No, it's not. Whether you or I believe in God or not, a lot of people do believe in and follow an organised religion. Certain religions do express views about suicide very strongly, so people who believe in those religions may well base their views on what their religion says.
Yes, it does. For the reason I have stated above.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Think it needs an option: Yes; but only if the person is terminally ill for e.g.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Yes and Their family understand that

I've voted

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I'm with Gordon Brown on this

Creating a legal “right” to die, no matter what safeguards were in place, would put unacceptable pressure on the sick and old, Mr Brown claims.

“The risk of pressures – however subtle – on the frail and the vulnerable, who may for example feel their existences burdensome to others, cannot ever be entirely excluded.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...d-suicide.html

We did go into this debate in some depth in this thread

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

equally the Hippocratic oath states to 'do no harm' - it could be easily, very easily argued that keeping someone alive in constant pain with no chance of reprieve from that is doing them untold emotional harm and that the kindest least harmful solution is to let them elect to end the suffering. We wouldn't let an animal go through that torment but we do it with people every day. DNR should NOT be the only means of escape from it.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I think that people with degenerating conditions, in conjunction with their family should be able to make the decision to die when they wish. I think however, that the decision must be one thats constantly reviewed, and not for example one thats taken when the person finds out they have parkinsons/huntingtons etc when they are 30 and then isn't reviewed at 40/50 etc.

There should be a legal process in place for this to happen, and it shouldn't not happen just because the government thinks its not the right thing to do.

Someone with an awful (though not degenerating) condition once said to me "Why do I have to carry on living like this, when we put animals down for less". I kind of agree in a way, as Humans have to suffer until their last breath, whereas we might put a horse down if it has a broken leg.... I've never understood that!

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I personally would rather there was an assisted suicide option.However as there isn't such a choice in law at present, I think I'm in the frame of mind that I'll cross that bridge IF I come to it

.Mainly because we can never be sure exactly what we feel about such an issue until it's in front of us and we have to decide.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I voted to have the right to have an assisted suicide and would not want my family to have to have the legacy of guilt that their making the decision could leave them with.

I have a Living Will in place which includes a advance decision which outlines what actions I refuse to have carried out in the event of my not being able to give the instructions myself. The Advance Decision is legally recognised and will stop anyone trying to prolong my life or carry out any medical procedure that would leave me alive but with a reduced quality of life.

So, I can legally force the people around me to watch my life ebb away over a long period, I can even force the medical profession to stand by helplessly, but I can't legally make the decision to die peacefully in a dignified manner.

I may well have to face this decision in the future if/when my condition is no longer controllable, I have long since come to terms with death and it holds no fear for me, in fact I plan on staying around a long time and one day do that table top Zulu Dance :D but I want the legal right to decide when and how I die.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I believe people should have the right to assisted suicide in the future.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

This would save the NHS and Welfare systems millions of pounds.

There are people out there that have incurable diseases and are just waiting to die usually in agony why shouldnt they be allowed to? As soneone else said in this thread we wouldnt let an animal suffer so why let a human?

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

My brother in law died last year of cancer and he suffered so much in the last year as he was totally unrecognisible from the person that everyone knew and loved.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

denphone exactly i remember watching my grandfather screaming in agony in hospital because his lungs were on the verge of collapsing through cancer.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Hard for someone with lung cancer to scream :(

There's no excuse for anyone with advanced cancer to be in pain in a hospital..

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

l know and l do not want anybody in my family to suffer in future and thats why the law should be changed.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

My brother in law was taking liquid morphine in the last 6 months and even though it curbed the pain he went from 15 stone to just over 6 stone and was totally unrecognisible in the end.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Father was on enough liquid morphine to knock out an elephant after he'd had a lung out the year before.. He eventually went into hospital on christmas day and was put on an automated morphine injection.

Eldest brother went with cancer which eventually ate through his liver.. again he went peacefully on an automated morphine injection.

There's a difference though with an aggressive disease like cancer which can most of the time be pain medicated with a fast end and someone with a debilitating condition who might suffer mentally and physically for decades before finally succumbing to the condition. They are the people more likely to want the option of assisted suicide.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Ok. it would be interseting if you could change the wording, so that it says "No, because of my religious beliefs"


I wonder if it came to it. someone would say "No, because of my religious beliefs. you'll just have to suffer"

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I think that members will realise fully well what the options are without having 100% exact wording :rolleyes:

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Are you talking to me, Kymmy?

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

People should have the ability to choose when to die.

I just finished watching that documentry a few minutes ago, very powerful stuff

That couple at the end were so brave, especially the wife.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Although I would say that is a personal choice for each individual. If we talking about society as a whole and if people should have the option then it doesn't matter IMO as people are still free to make that choice themselves.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

It's though still not just a choice for the individual who wants to die.. someone has to knowingly help them for it to be assisted suicide and that is the issue here.. Choosing to die is not illegal and everyone is quite free to take that action if they so wish as long as they can carry out the full action themselves..

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I have voted yes for this as I say my Mother go through lung Disease for the last 6 years of getting gradually worse and then having to be there for the final week of her life on ITU. Also this is how my uncle went and we cremated him on last Tuesday.
The other 2 members of my family who died of this, I did not meet.

If I do come down with this Disease I would take this option as I have seen what the Disease can do and the horror that it put's a family through.

Also I have seen the other end of the spectrum where they are in a Hospice, Due to a family friend with cancer and He even stated near to the end that He wished that he had gone sooner.

All this is just IMHO

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 18:01 ----------

Just to add to this part:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Well spoken Devil as thats why l voted yes but opinions on this will be polarised.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

The more relevant link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Act_1961

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Ok thanks for that, but it is hard to try and read when you have got tears in your eyes after laying yourself bare:(

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Not surprising, given what you've been through.

Sorry to hear of the suffering you've had to see others endure and what you've had to endure, watching people suffer as well.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

OK Cheers for that mate:D

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I voted for yes but with discussion with the family. Mainly for the long suffering of terminal illness that you know isnt going to be cured within the next 5 year or something.

always said to my friends and family that if I would loose my marbles then just shoot me take me out hunting and make it look like an accident.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I have very strong views on this, l firmly believe that IF the person is terminally ill and there is nothing left with life and they are in a condition that is 'not repairable with drugs' then l feel that they should make this decision.

I would not like my family look after me, if l am terminally ill, thats not right.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

i voted yes i believe that everyone has a choice in life and death and if the individual decides that this is what they want why should they not have this as an option avaiable to them, i hope this country legalises it here in the near future

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Nope, no way, never.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy watching a loved one in pain and suffering but making this sort of thing legal would be abused left-right-and-centre when some people get an idea there's an inheritance in it for them.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Yes I can understand your view on this, But have you seen family members go though the turmoil :confused:There has been no inheritance for me :(

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I don't think there's much evidence of it being abused 'left-right-and-centrre' in countries where it is legal.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I'm sure there isn't but no two countries are alike.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

I'm pretty sure I didn't say it would happen in all or even most cases.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

True, but it does suggest that it is possible to build in sufficient checks and balances to make sure the system is robust enough to prevent abuse.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Discourage yes, prevent no.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

There's a difference between not preventing abuse and something being abused 'left-right-and-centre'. There is no system that is 100% abuse proof. We need to weigh the probability of abuse against people's 'right' to die in dignity. So far, it appears there is very little (if any) abuse in countries where assisted suicide is allowed. Why have the apparently unfounded fear of abuse prevent people from dying in dignity?

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Society is far too focussed on money-grabbing. Compensation culture et al. There are enough unscrupulous people in this country to almost ensure it will happen.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Frankly, I doubt that the UK is so different from other countries to make impossible here what is possible elsewhere. Hell, it's legal in some states in the US, the home of compensation culture...

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I'm sorry Russ but any inheritance would be the last thing on my mind and seeing your family or close relatives suffer is heartbreaking.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Don't think I said you would be after anyone's inheritance.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

You're joking in you're own country they allow people feeling depressed to be put down, if that's not an abuse I don't know what is.

Bosscher wanted to die. She refused treatment for her depression, claiming that her mental suffering was such that nothing would help. Dr. Boudewijn Chabot was acquitted of assisted suicide because the patient was rational and had not been diagnosed with any psychiatric illness. Thereafter, the Dutch guidelines included information advocating that physicians be allowed to assist depressed people to commit suicide.

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/57...THERLANDS.html

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

l know that Russ but l do not think there would be much abuse on any new law if it was to come in.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

And I think there would be. Neither of us are right or wrong as both our opinions are based on supposition.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I presume that if assisted suicide ever did become legal in this country it would be on a permission basis with checks, examinations and only permissible in certain circumstances..

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Yes our opinions are based on suppostion but its good l think for people to bring this difficult subject up for more discussion and debate.

---------- Post added at 08:26 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

Absolutely.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

To be honest, I'm not familiar with the details of that (relatively old) case, though I would agree that assisted suicide on the basis of mental suffering is contentious. However, reading Dutch media on a regular (daily) basis, I don't recall any high profile dubious cases being reported in the last 10 years. On that basis, I would say that abuse is not rife. Furthermore, I have no reason to believe there have been any cases where the system has been abused for monetary reasons, as was suggested by another poster.

On that basis, I see no reason why it couldn't be implemented in the UK, at least where physical suffering is involved. The (non-representative) poll here suggests that many people agree it should be allowed.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I watched the documentary and was very moved by it. Peter Smedley was going to die anyway as a result of having MND. But by choosing when he should die meant that he was able to avoid the increased pain and suffering that lay ahead of him coupled with the indignity of it. This way he was able to have a dignified death with his wife close by and his wife was spared the pain of watching him suffer later.

It is obvious by that paragraph that I think assisted suicide should be legalised in this country. I do not think that a person should be forced to endure pain and suffering if it is known, unequivocally, that there will be no chance of recovery.

In the case of Anthony Bland, who was injured in the Hillsborough disaster and as a result was left with a condition of persistent vegetative state (PVS), it was decided that as he was beyond recovery, life-sustaining treatment should be stopped. Anthony did not and could not make this decision, as he had no awareness. It was made for him by those treating him and by his family. The decision was made with the aim of letting Anthony end his life and die peacefully, with dignity and with as little pain as possible.

Yet, in contrast, in the case of Diane Pretty, who had Motor Neurons Disease (MND) which we know has no cure and results in death, but not before a degree of pain, suffering and indignity, was informed by the courts that her husband could not assist in her suicide without the consequence of prosecution. (Diane Pretty was by this time physically unable to take her own life due to the progression of the MND).

Here, a woman who is of sound mind and intellect, making a choice to have help dying for reasons that the courts deemed valid in the case of Bland, even though it wasn’t he himself that made the choice, is refused.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2600923.stm

Obviously, there would have to be many checks and balances in place in order to protect the vulnerable. The person wishing to die must be terminally ill, with no chance of recovery, be of sound mind, not being coerced etc. The DPP’s interim policy has some points on it, which could be incorporated in to the checks and balance procedures should assisted suicide be legalised.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/journals/...ion/index.html

There is always the fear of systems being abused, but that is what the checks and balances would be for. For something like this to be legalised, procedures would have to exhaustive.

I believe that every individual should have the right and freedom to make the choice and to be assisted with that choice if necessary. It is wholly unfair that an able bodied person of sound mind can make that choice and follow through on it but that someone who is physically unable but still sound of mind can make the same choice but is discriminated against in being able to follow through because they require assistance.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I don't think anyone would be reckless enough to suggest that watching a loved one in terminal pain is going to be easy especially if they're prepared to be allowed to die - I think this is reflected in the courts as IIRC there have been cases when the CPS have chosen to not go ahead when someone has admitted helping a spouse to die when in serious and untreatable pain. If it was someone close to me then obviously I would find it hard to disagree with assisted suicide and I truly sympathise with anyone in that position.

I don't think it is possible to totally safeguard against people with financial gain in mind when it comes to this. I'm not going to say it would be easy to pull the wool over peoples' eyes but how often do we hear of someone scamming and raiding an elderly person's savings when they had power of attorney over their affairs and were supposed to be looking after them? The jump from that to this is not a big one in my opinion even though it may turn out to be a rare occurrence. But even so, I am very uncomfortable with the notion of anyone assisting a death even if morally (and possibly legally) they are doing the 'right' thing.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

l respect your side of the discussion Russ but l still disagree with you on this.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I would think that allowing a spouse or relative in assisting in suicide would probably be risky. Allowing a GP or (panel of) medical experts that have no personal relation to the patient in question to assist would be a safer bet imo.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Having a relative to be involved would surely be the next step if allowing a doctor to do it became legal.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I would think that having a panel of medical experts involved would be the minimum of checks that needs to be built into the system. You can't have it carried out or sanctioned by just anyone. Let's face it: you need someone who is medically qualified to provide the means.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

I don't thinks it is possible to 'totally' safeguard against anything...any policy, legislation etc is going to be vulnerable somewhere. The best that can be done is to minimise that vulnerability as best as possible, which is why, with an issue such as this, the procedures would have to be extremely stringent.

Re: Assisted Suicide.
 

Denying a dignified end to people with terminal illness by medical assistance just because it might be abused, assumes there are totally unscrupulous doctors out there who would be complicit in such an act. If there are such doctors like that out there a sensible law with safeguards is hardly going to change this, apart from perhaps make them easier to find.

It just seems too cruel in this day and age to force innocent terminally ill people go through a living hell because they no longer are able to bring about their own death.