A new flood of migrants ?
 

On May 1st the rules regarding migrant workers are changing .It means basically that migrant workers can claim benefits immediately upon entering the country


I suspect that these are changes agreed by Labour before they left office ,and if so why the hell can't the new government do something about it ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I too have serious concerns about the effects of this. It's all very well people arguing that these rules are EU wide and the same as those of the indigenous population but the attraction to migrants form the poorer parts of Europe will be huge as the benefits involved represent relatively large sums of money in those places. I believe France and Germany etc. are also supposed to be introducing similar rules but I have a sneaking suspicion that they will find ways to avoid them being taken advantage of on a large scale in practice. I do think that this is potentially a recipe for more unrest as some indigenous people perceive that, at a time when everything's being squeezed, migrants are now able to take advantage of a benefits system they haven't even contributed to, adding further to the burden we all face. Of course if the UK was booming the effects of all this may be masked but with unemployment probably not heading downwards any time soon and times tough throughout the EU, I think this measure is likely to cause trouble and cost us a lot of money we don't have. Time will tell.

As I understand it, the Lib-Dems would be unliklely to support moves to try to exclude ourselves from these rules so Cameron probably realises he can't win a fight on this issue.

I often wonder if mass migration would be deemed quite so acceptable by the great and the good if lawyers, journalists, politicians, judges and the like were more on the receiving end of it. If MPs were hired in the marketplace like everyone else and had to compete for their jobs against foreign competition able to undercut them like most of us do, I wonder if they'd be quite so keen on the free movement of migrants. Just a thought.....

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

apologies link added

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

A good thought though,migrant workers seem to be limited to seasonal work and temporary work at the moment but under these new rules workers can come to Britain and claim benefits whilst looking for more permanent positions whereas before thay had to work on entry for a year continuously

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

we should quit europe costs us far more than we reap.. they always fine the country for silly things to carry on paying the god knows how many thousands of pointless jobs with crazy salaries, the governemtn should simply say, how about FU europe dont like it kick us out?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Our ex-neighbours (Czech Roma) contacted me from Romania where they fled after losing part time jobs here (cleaners) and defaulting on several loans, credit card bills, rent payments, etc..

They wanted me to send them info about "4 or 5 bedroom houses" they can occupy rent and poll tax free once the new rules apply.

They were not the nicest of people, so I declined their request, especially when I asked what jobs they were going to and was told "Jobs? Who needs jobs?"

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I hate migrants.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

insightful as always gary :rolleyes:

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I hate migrants that come here for the free money.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Better;)

well it looks as though it's going to get worse ,one of my main queries is will they be treated the same as our own indigenous welfare junkies ,will they be made to attend interviews ,have their money stopped for 6 months if they don't show willing to find a job

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Very true and i agree to a point ,but how do you force an employer to take a unwilling worker forced upon them by the welfare state instead of a cheap willing foreign worker who will give more productivity

interesting blog :tu:

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I doubt it. they probably just get it coming in without argument.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

We'd never have guessed.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

You're just saying that.

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Why doesn't the EU make other countries give their citizens the security we enjoy here ,instead of making rules that allow them to take advantage of the security designed to help citizens of the UK .If the EU are going to encourage migration and force us(the UK) to pay them benefits out of our welfare fund then i think the EU should compensate us

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

why doesn't the government do what the PEOPLE WANT and tell europe to straight F OFF, what are they going to do ? fine us ? tell them again to F OFF!

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

because then that would be a "government for the people by the people" and we can't be having that :rolleyes:;)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Because the EU is the biggest, fattest trough that the government could ever have dreamed of.
It's a rest home for rejected MPs and basically unaccountable to anyone.

They just take our money and splash it about to their favourite causes, and you can imagine what those will be..

No way are they ever going to leave without an armed revolution.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

We could ask the French for help. they'll know how to sort it.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

The French are getting worried as they are slowly being outnumbered in their own country too...

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

:clap:

...............and check this out to get your blood boiling a bit more :D

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I so want us out of Europe.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Most people seem to think this.

Most people want this?

Why do the parties that advocate this do so bad then?

Serious question.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

because they tend to mix it up with other non practical/sensible stuff like throwing non-indigenous people out of the country .
If labour said they would take us out of Europe would it be worth bringing them back into power? serious question .

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

LOL didn't Blair and Brown both say they would when they were in?

Didn't Blair hope that he was going to be part of the club when he left?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

well i think they promised a referendum

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

So what promise would you like this time around?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

An end to boom and bust.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

:rofl: Would you ask Labours friend prudence to end it ;)

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Well i might be wrong but was it not Labour who put measures in place to ensure it would be almost impossible for any future Government to get us out of Europe thus ensuring they could get in on the gravy train when we kicked them out of power.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

It was the conservatives under Heath.

In fact the only time the British people got to have their voices heard (albeit with a 66% majority voting to to stay in the EC) was courtesy of a labour referendum under Wilson in '75.

The subsequent signing of Maastrict and the formation of the EU (both of which took place under Conservative Governments) were the final nails in the coffin - as the Factortame case went some way to proving.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Ah yes. When we voted for a 'Common Market'.

It started with a lie and they've all built on that. Both as bad as each other.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Thanks.

I still wish we could get to hell out but i dont think we will ever get a chance

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I tend to agree. As I see it there's no real prospect of it ever happening I'm afraid.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I have to say I am coming round to this view - I was always a supporter of the EEC and its founding principles, but lately it just seems to be pointless bureaucratic growth, over-regulation and spending (and no, I do not get my views from the Express/Mail....)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Me too - join the club..... :mad:

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Like so many things formed mostly with the best of intentions but soon becoming a self-serving bureaucratic monstrosity whose primary function now appears to be rewarding the appratchiks with jobs and pensions and sending funds to their chosen causes.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

So let me get this right.....

There's potential for a wave of migration to happen which may or may not occur (Apologies to any mystics on the board)


This in turn then leads to some people stating 'I hate migrants' etc. etc.

Just a quick Q for the migrant hater(s) Don't you realise that migration is neccesary in this country ? As it is in fact in most countries

Oh and for one final point would anyone hazard a guess as to the numbers emigrating from the UK as opposed to those coming in ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Controlled Migration is the key here.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Indeed it is. However as part of the EU..........

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Neccessary?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Correct, would you like me to spell out the reasons as to why ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

If you're not too busy.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Ok then, labour for example cheap fruit and vegtables... who picks them ?

Skilled shortage areas such as Dr's., Surgeons.

Low paid, low skilled jobs that perhaps some UK citizens neither have the time nor inclanation to accept due to them being more interested in reproducing and paying for things out of catalogues on the never never......

There's a few to get you started

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Migration maybe, Giving them benefits as soon as they arrive NO. I say they must have been offered a job BEFORE they come here and if they lose there job in the first year they MUST leave. Why should i have to fund there life style when they have done nothing for this country but suck our benefits system dry.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Great stuff, can we do that with all the workshy bone idle gits who refuse to get jobs and instead play the system for all they can ?

cross border economic migration within the EU is bound within law.

Non EU migration into the UK works pretty much the same way as you have described above (without the buggering off when they lose a job)

We're all quite happy to go and work whereever we wish in the EU as well.....

As many as 100,000 (so no idea how many in reality) people from eastern Europe are expected to head (might head to the UK might not who knows) for the UK after May 1,

Does anyone have a breakdown of these supposed £250pw benefits that they're supposedly entitled to claim ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

The very same argument could be made about many bankers - migrant or not.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Touche (sorry can't be bothered to accentuate correctly !)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Sadly, this is so true. I don't know why the Brits are such a xenophobic lot. Perhaps it's the island thing, but whatever the reason, it's pretty sad.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Migrants.

Migrants.

Migrants again!
Can they afford to rent the house they live in out of the low wages that nobody else will work for, or is that paid for them?

Thanks.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Would love to. Plenty of them near me to start with.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

So therefore you would agree that migration is neccesary ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

No.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

We haven't been an island since construction of the channel tunnel was complete.....

Insular people in their insular worlds. shame really ?

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------


If you're in warrington I understand your statement. I had a partner who lived in Newton Le Willows ...... ;)

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

So erm, remove the migration element and who exactly replaces them in the areas that they're needed ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

At least they'd be making the effort to work.

I think most (rational) people would prefer to subsidise migrants who work and contribute to the UK society as a whole over their workshy counterparts - unless of course a misguided and ill informed racism / xenophobia is more important to them than fundamental economics.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I remember the BBC news opening on the day the channel tunnel opened:

It was hilarious, but very sad at the same time.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I think this is the death of the benefits system, a government can't stop EU migrants coming in but they can make it less attractive by ruining it for everyone and seriously cutting the amount of benefit people can claim.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Students and bored/retired people can do the fruit, veg and low paid jobs. and how many years do we keep needing foreigners to come over and doctor us? is nobody interested in becoming a doctor when they leave school anymore?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

When the pro-immigration people bring up that the NHS would collapse without immigration i always think "that's not good, it's a shameful admission"

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

And how exactly do you force these people to do these jobs ?

And as to the bolded part, It's fairly obvious that this may be a reason otherwise we wouldn't be needing migrants to fill those roles :confused:

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Depends how far you want to go with the subsidises. free house, free council tax, free health care and treatment, etc..
that's for the ones who work.

then you have to subsidise the ones that haven't come over to work.
free house, free council tax, free health care and treatment, free benefit money, etc..

the disadvantages can far outweigh the advantages. and bringing racism into money matters is silly.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Source to back up all that you've just posted above or I'm calling it just another rant by a xenophobe

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Are these jobs below the minimum wage or something?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Why should a retired person (who has worked all their lives) continue to work ?

How do you force someone to take a job ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

When we had a decent school system and not an overly attractive benefits system the young adults would have wanted to do them willingly.

Unfortunately we now have the lost generations.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Before I can answer, I need to know whether these fruit picking jobs are below the national minimum wage.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Kettle, meet pot.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

And that's the migrants fault because..........

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

Some are, some aren't

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Still waiting.......

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Nobody ever answers the point. just the easy one :)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Not saying its the migrants fault, it's why our children don't want to work and the reason why we've had immigration pushed on us.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Tidied......


PS anyone like indian or chinese takeaways ?

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

People in glass houses ? Still waiting for the evidence to back up your so called claims

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Just how face do you think I can type?
I'm still composing my reply.

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

I do. which one you doing?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

By composing do you mean copying and pasting from various organisations websites such as the EDL, NF, Combat 18 & The BNP ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Slow down a bit or you'll start making mistakes. ;)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

So erm the first generation of migrants that came to the UK to open these resteraunts/takeaways they should of buggered off 'back home' ?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Particularly your good self Gary.

You like to make racist / xenophobic comments and then try to skirt around the fact that you have done so.

Take for example this little gem from earlier in the thread;

You explicitly linked your xenophobia with a money related matter in relation to migrants and then announced shortly thereafter that anyone who does so is "silly".

Given this self admission on your part and the associated schizophrenic / short term memory issues you obviously suffer I think you should try to establish if there is a provision for care in the community in your locale that you might be able to avail of that is not only available to adults.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

No.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Now tell the truth... or no crispy duck for you


I'm presuming you will be naming your sources also (please note spelling) just so we dont get any HP, Heinz or any other pithy sauce based hilarity

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

I suppose you assume they live in cardboard boxes then?
it was a legitimate point. if they take on the low paid jobs and being in this country when you don't earn enough you get housing benefit.

this is not about colour. it's not about xenophobia. it's not about racism. it's about money.

He's off again.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Actually it's becoming more about your xenophobic bigotry and general lack of knowledge regarding socioeconomics but lets not let the facts get in the way of a good rant.....

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Can't you shut up for 2 minutes? :D

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

That being the case Gary then why did you make your comments specific to migrants?

Again, since you're trying the old "Oh no, they think I'm a xenophobe" selective memory loss trick, your quote was:

Originally Posted by Gary L http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/im...s/viewpost.gif
Migrants again!
Can they afford to rent the house they live in out of the low wages that nobody else will work for, or is that paid for them?

At least have the nads to stand up for your opinions, however offensive to others they might be. You'll find that people will probably think more of you for doing so.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

H8r :(

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

My dead goldfish could have composed a reply quicker than this and thats with his fins being amputated and suffering from fish alzheimers........oh and being dead too:erm:

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Because we were talking specifically about Migrants?

"Migrants again!" you are quoting out of context to make a point :(

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Stop oppressing him!

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

RIP fishy?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

How did you know i stood on my fish ?:shocked:

---------- Post added at 11:50 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

You would have been glad, he was a migrant fishy :(

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Thanks.

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 ----------

What did he do for a living? or did he just swim around all day doing nothing?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

He picked fruit and veg, got bowling benefit though on account of the low wages.......

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Yes, that's right Gary, we are. And you stated - rather crudely:

Originally Posted by Gary L http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/im...s/viewpost.gif
Migrants again!
Can they afford to rent the house they live in out of the low wages that nobody else will work for, or is that paid for them?

Subsequently you contended that this is "not about colour. it's not about xenophobia. it's not about racism" but "its about money".

That being the case then why do you contiunue to make it specific to immigrants?

Are you that blinkered that you can't see how "silly" (your choice of words - not mine) your contradictory positions make you appear?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

You pulling my leg?

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 ----------

You're asking me why I'm talking about Migrants. then you're asking me why it's not about their colour or racism. you're also asking me why I continue to make it specific to talk about migrants?

1. the subject is about migrants.
2. you are the one who said unless of course a misguided and ill informed racism / xenophobia is more important to them than fundamental economics. to which I said that it's not about racism.
3. see 1 above.

Further to point 2.
that is the reason (imho) why these issues get passed by in government and such. because as soon as the issue comes up someone (probably not you) casually stands up and says "that's racist" and then casually sits back down again.

everyone looks at each other and says, ok, lets leave this one. lets go onto the next issue of emptying the bins and what we can do to solve the mass amounts of rubbish we are dumping in this country.

he (probably not you) doesn't say a word with that one.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

How come the "migrants" (immigrants, really, but hey) can afford to live work/here by taking low-paid jobs and then claiming all the supposed benefits that Gary states they do, but "indigenous Britons" can't seem to do the same?

Is it because
a) the benefits systems favours non-Britons
b) the immigrants are willing to work harder/willing to get up in the morning and survive without 40" plasma TVs/Xbox/etc
c) Gary is talking bolleaux

Please vote A, B, or C..... (one can chose more than one option)


(btw, love Gary's pathetic pre-emptive straw-man argument re racism - sometimes you are called racist, Gary, because you are a racist; as Mr A said, man up to the crap you spout, rather than the usual "Who, me?" surprised expression).

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Because it might be a fortune to them compared to what money is worth where they came from?

D - if you think Hugh is on a point scoring exercise again.

Are you the man that stands up and says "that's racist"? :D

I am as racist as you are a drunk.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

But the cost is the same for them in this country as everyone else (as this is where they are paying for things) - whereas equivalent value in their own country is meaningless, like much of your postings.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

E) You're one of those male chickens ?

Still waiting for my request for evidence of your earlier claim, or, as hugh puts it to succintly perhaps you were talking bolleaux ??


Oh, B, C & E for my vote........

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Marty said earlier about whether they will be held to the (looking for work and having their money stopped if they're not) thing.

I expect they have more rights than someone that was born here when it comes to it. I mean we said come on in and have the benefits. it would be quite cruel of us to hold them to conditions and suddenly take it off them for something as silly as that.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Well, I get reasonably relaxed with alcohol around twice a week - are you reasonably racist twice a week (if so, you must be cutting down...:D).

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Ok, here you are. sorry it's took so long.

Depends how far you want to go with the subsidises. free house, free council tax, free health care and treatment, etc..
that's for the ones who work.

This was in reference to your below minimum wage fruit and veg picking jobs that nobody else wants.
and I won't mention the fact that I said Depends how far you want to go, and the rest were just examples, because I think you will be really disappointed.

the free options are not a certainty. they are a possibility (due to an assessment of earnings) probability is that due to the low wages from picking fruit and veg, a free house, free council tax, and NHS treatment is highly likely.

then you have to subsidise the ones that haven't come over to work.
free house, free council tax, free health care and treatment, free benefit money, etc..

if you haven't got a job, then it's a very high probability that you will receive all of the above. just like someone who already lives in this country does.

why should migrants be any different?


the disadvantages can far outweigh the advantages. and bringing racism into money matters is silly.

This one doesn't need any explaining. does it?

Again sorry it took so long.

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:58 ----------

You don't understand, Hugh.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

What a cop-out.

As usual, the depth of your answer is equalled only by its credibility.:(

Are you saying that it is cheaper for an immigrant to eat and live in this country than it is for a native? If so, how?

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

For those migrants whose aim is to stay here for good, buy a home etc. there is no real advantage (except that they haven't paid much if anything into the system beforehand) over the equivalent indigenous population since they'll have the same sort of income and the same sort of outgoings - a level playing field you might say.

However, for those who want to come here for just a few years and don't mind 'roughing it' for that period, the attraction of working here (and now claiming benefits) is huge because that money, when repatriated, represents a vast sum which could buy a home outright for example. They're effectively using the UK's much higher wage and benefit rates to subsidise their long term existance elsewhere and whilst I can understand them doing just that - many UK expats have done the same, after all - we can't deny it a) is happening, b) will probably increase now that they don't even need to have had a job to claim benefits and c) is going to cost a lot more money at a time when a lot of people here are really struggling.

The option that migrants have to live cheap for a while, save as much as they can and then take the money back home where it goes a hell of a lot further is isn't really open to the indigenous masses, especially those who're already embroiled in the housing market and struggling to pay mortages etc. It is something the young here can and are doing to an extent (by, for example, staying at home much longer to save house deposits) but the truth is if they work just as hard and for the same money as their migrant equivalents, what they come away with over the same period isn't going to go anywhere near as far because the housing and other costs they're going to have to contend with permanently are much higher than those the returning migrants enjoy back home.

We have a friend (a single mother with a very severely disabled child, neither of whom were born here) who has never really worked here but is eligible for quite a few benefits as you'd expect. She's certainly not living the life of Reilly but has, over the years, used the money she's saved from her benefits etc. to build a home back in Poland.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Now that is a credible answer - thank you, Osem.

Mind you, I remember the Brits doing the same in West Germany in the 80s....

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Please add the vote so we CAN vote please :)