School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

Yep it's that old chestnut again.

As a product of grammar school education which gave him a lot of social mobility I'm a big fan of selective education, I would be interested in the perspectives of any teachers and employers that are here as to how true this story is.

Certainly anecdotally there's plenty of evidence that standards have declined, and indeed by some measures there are statistics that support this point of view.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

I would agree that we need a return of grammar schools or modern equivalent .The main problem that i see is that the education system seems to think everyone is capable of the same standard and are educated such which is obviously not the case .
And as an employer albeit very small yes i think the standard is very low

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

I was educated in a Comprehensive School.... I came out OK, university educated etc.

I don't necessarily think its schools that have "gone down hill" but rather, parents no longer pushing/urging their kids to become well educated, which leads to "bums".

My parents weren't posh or anything, but they saw the potential in me, and urged me to reach it.

Some people, granted, aren't academic, but some of them just want to sit around watching TV and drinking tinnies. I think TV has some part to play, as have some teachers, peer pressure etc, but ultimately, its the individual that chooses to become educated (or not) and make something of their lives (again...or not).

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

There was a guy in my year in school who was in what was then called the slow learners group. When he left school he was still barely able to read and write and his wife is now not only teaching him but also their two kids at the same time. I know he was a complete idiot and so on always smoking drugs and so on but i think a lot to do with his behaviour was people just gave up on him but as a teenager you dont see what you do now as an adult looking back.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

Standards have declined because behaviour and discipline have declined.This is as a result of children and parents now exclusively regarding their own rights as paramount.The rights of educators to do their job unimpeded and other students to get a hassle free education don't even figure.

Also business and would be employers are always complaining about this every decade..they said the same during the period of Grammar schools.They tend to see education as being only for turning out a trained workforce that they can then put straight to work without any expenditure on their part.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

It does seem to have become that children are taking the lead with parental support. Rather than teachers having the lead with parental support.

Would also add the loss of the apprentice system has skewed the education system toward academic study which is not suitable for all.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

Business are unfortunately being completely unrealistic with their opinions.

You can't just put someone to work with no training whatsoever. Even me, in a technical role, had to be trained, and I still do need ongoing training - its the nature of my job.

As a teacher you still get trained (otherwise what are "Training Days" for?) Private Industry cannot be any different - even if those industries say otherwise...

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

i have to say though my education suffered majorly as a result of being bullied and the school offering little support. I dont think i would be here now if it wasnt for a teacher who would come to find me to give me his keys to go back into his classroom on break and lunchtimes. He also used to give me a lift home sometimes. I was very very close as a teenager to suicide and now having post traumatic stress from it i have attempted it 4 times.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

If someone fails to get ANY GCSEs, even if the grades are poor then they should be taken out back and shot as they obviously didn't even bother to turn up to the exams

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

'Unfit for work' is a scary term.
With support and inspiration anyone can reach their full potential, whatever that level is.

We all need the porter in the hospital to take us from reception to the operating table and get the instruments there swiftly, and the surgeon to work the magic, and the cleaner to help keep the germs away, and the guy/girl keeping the carpark flowing, and hospitality staff to make us smile and make sure we get fed and watered.

Get my drift?

'Reaching full potential' is all and everything to me.
There's a place in the world for everyone and it might not be 'the work place either'.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

It's not training in general they are complaining about, I think it's having to do basic remedial skills training in maths and English.

Obviously companies will have to accept the need to train their staff somewhat when they join, even if it's just procedural training.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

If only you had sat in on one :D

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

Bumhole.

Fair enough, I left myself so open you could drive a truck through, well played ;)

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

I beg your pardon???

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

You made a really quite sharp funny, apparently without noticing! :D

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

I did,I did. That's me - I do it all the time - it amuses no end of people ;) I'm an easy target :D
I thought you were name-calling :D

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

It's not too much for employers to want a workforce that can read and right and do basic maths to an acceptible level .The last few years i have been shocked at the standard of basic education from some of my apprentices/labourers .I do accept that there has always and always will be an element that will never achieve or want to achieve any kind of educational standard but that element of society has got bigger over the last few years imo .

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

And I told you why. Behaviour and discipline are at fault.Add to that unrealistic aims and goals and you have a recipe for disaster.
Thanks to X Factor and reality shows there are many who fail to see that the best way to succeed is to study/train/practice as hard as they can.One only has to glance at the rejects from such shows to see how deluded they are at thinking all they need to do is appear on TV.

The number of argu..err discussions I've had with youngsters who are going to be acting,singing,dancing for a living who think they need only to study drama,dancing or music and they will make it.

As Ignitionnet says it an old chestnut dragged up every decade.School leavers could leave with top grades and crystal clear received pronunciation and would still be found wanting by prospective employers.

I'd also like to point out that your own presentation in this thread has some spelling errors.Plus it is correct grammar to use a capital letter when referring to oneself in the singular mode.;)

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

Uhhh…:erm::p:

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

I agree that discipline at school and in the home has a great deal to do with the problem ,and hopefully ,with schools getting new powers with discipline or at least confirmation of existing powers that will get better .That isn't the only problem though ,we have record numbers of children leaving school with record numbers of qualifications year after year and yet basic skills are still lacking so somewhere there is a problem with the government figures .I also think that a lot of teachers haven't got the dedication they used to have, either because they have had it knocked out of them by the system or simply because they aren't in the profession for the right reasons

@the spelling police ,i was going through my year end accounts when i wrote the above post so :upyours:;)

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

I think the problem is that they are leaving with top grades but the standard of their basic skills is abysmal.

Employers have every right to complain if people leaving school and applying to them for jobs aren't able to do maths, read and write to expected standards.

The argument that we perhaps need to wind our neck in on education and stop with the more 'exotic' aspects of subjects and concentrate on the basics rather than a collection of tick boxes to satisfy a curriculum is a good one. Without the basic communications skills even someone with the skills to do a job won't be able to present themselves articulately to an employer.

All well and good teaching pupils a wide curriculum but entirely pointless if the extent of their ability to deploy this knowledge is a multiple choice exam paper or a clearly framed question they have been able to practice via mocks and given guidance on how to answer for best results.

That requires nothing beyond the ability to learn by rote and recite information when certain stimuli are provided. Life generally requires a bit more than that.

Re: School Leavers Unfit For Work 2011 Edition
 

And yet you still refer to yourself in the first person with a lower case instead of a capital letter.;)

Possibly the passion for texting is to blame?I suspect that speed being the main motivator in working these days and technology playing a larger life may be another reason.

I also wonder how many homes possess a dictionary or thesaurus?

And finally we get the education we pay for. If we want our children to really parse their English correctly then we need to train the teachers to do so and lay more emphasis upon it in schools than is done at present.Trying to do this while getting an increasing minority to sit down and STFU while you teach is possibly what is at the basis of what goes wrong.