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Maggy 28-03-2011 08:38
NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12868879
Quote:
Plans to allow teachers in England to search pupils for mobile phones and examine the phones' content have been called "reckless" by a teaching union.
The measures in the new Education Bill are designed to combat cyber-bullying.
But the NASUWT says it will create conflict between teachers and pupils and their parents.
Quote:
The Education Bill for England will give the teachers a legal right to search pupils and take their phones - and also look at and delete any messages and pictures they deem necessary.
I'm inclined to agree..but then I was highly dubious about the idea of searching pupils for drugs and knives.

Gary L 28-03-2011 08:58
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
LOL they can't go through their phones pictures and messages and start deleting stuff.
I don't care if they're kids. you just don't give teachers this kind of power.

Damien 28-03-2011 09:07
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
You certainly can't let teaches search their pupils' phones at a whim. I think if such bullying is taking place then it needs to be referred to a headmaster who can decide a phone needs to be looked at but is responsible for the privacy of the pupil and has to have a reason why.

martyh 28-03-2011 09:32
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
totally wrong ,if the police wanted to look in someones phone wouldn't they need a search warrant ?

danielf 28-03-2011 10:50
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
I thought the coalition intended to improve on Labour's record on civil liberties rather than continue to trample all over them?

Jon T 28-03-2011 10:59
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
I can't see how this can be done legally, anything on a personal mobile phone, text, email's are classed as the owner's data, therefore under the data protection act you would either need the data owners consent or a legal instrument to allow them to be viewed.

I think the data commissioner/ ICO may take a dim view of this.

martyh 28-03-2011 11:44
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
i think the schools have the right to ban/confiscate mobiles if they are that concerened about cyber bullying in school time but definately not the right to view any content

Caff 28-03-2011 11:52
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Let's remember why 'they' are in the building?
Bless thir cotton socks but...

martyh 28-03-2011 11:54
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200723)
Let's remember why 'they' are in the building?
Bless thir cotton socks but...
:confused:

Jon T 28-03-2011 12:01
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35200716)
i think the schools have the right to ban/confiscate mobiles if they are that concerened about cyber bullying in school time but definately not the right to view any content
A ban is fine, as is temporary consfication, permanent would be theft. As you say, viewing someone's personal data without their consent is a violation od data protection law, not even a disclaimer of "all mobiles brought on to the premises may be subject to inspection" would enable it to be done. Only way around it I can see is that all pupils wuold be required to sign something to allow any inspection to happen.

Teacher's would have to be carefull with this on a personal level, as personal prosecutions are perfectly possible, even if your doing something as part of your job.

haydnwalker 28-03-2011 12:02
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
All the more reason for kids to start pass coding their phones etc :) How exactly do the government plan to tackle that?

Teachers aren't the police, and they have and should not have the legal right to search/delete messages/pictures on a whim. If its supposed to combat cyber-bullying then there should be an entire process that needs to be followed before the search takes place.

Caff 28-03-2011 12:02
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35200726)
:confused:
Why would the pupils feel the need to have a mobile on hand and switched on during lessons?
They are distracting to the pupil, and those that are trying to teach them, if they insist on using the in class.
Gawd knows we might all have liked a bit of distraction during lessons but that ain't the point of being in school.
If the school decides that staff have found pupils' use of mobiles detrimental to the lesson and then it's good to damand that they are all switched off.
The 'searching' for them is plain wrong.
Let's remember that footage of staff has been recorded by pupils for good or bad - staff are aready showing dust and small stones as fast as they can go.
The matter should be taken up by senior management.

Chris 28-03-2011 12:11
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 35200688)
I can't see how this can be done legally, anything on a personal mobile phone, text, email's are classed as the owner's data, therefore under the data protection act you would either need the data owners consent or a legal instrument to allow them to be viewed.

I think the data commissioner/ ICO may take a dim view of this.
Teachers act in loco parentis at school ... In other words they are responsible to care for children as a reasonable parent would. In reality, they almost certainly already have the right to do this with mobiles if the circumstances justify it, just as they never lost the right to use reasonable force against children where justified.

The reason the use of force has been enshrined in statute, and I suspect the reason this measure is now proposed to be, is to take a stand against those parents who have a chip on their shoulders about their own school days and are prepared to resort to Law to deal with the school rather than supporting the school's attempts to deal with their children.

The DPA was never intended to prevent child bullies from being caught and disciplined and if that is inadvertently now the case then frankly that is insane. Nobody would suggest the DPA should be used to stop a parent dealing with unacceptable use of a mobile phone so there should be no justification for it being used against a school which is acting with the same duty of care s a parent.

If new statute law is required in order to prevent schools being prosecuted under the DPA whilst dealing with cyber bullying and associated issues, then I'm all for it.

Gary L 28-03-2011 12:31
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
If anyone agrees that 'teachers' should have the power to go through a persons phone, and delete what they want to. then that says a lot about that person.

if I was a pupil I'd pin protect the phone. let them beat me till I give in.
I'd put pictures of my sister in it too.

martyh 28-03-2011 12:38
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35200742)
Teachers act in loco parentis at school ... In other words they are responsible to care for children as a reasonable parent would. In reality, they almost certainly already have the right to do this with mobiles if the circumstances justify it, just as they never lost the right to use reasonable force against children where justified.

The reason the use of force has been enshrined in statute, and I suspect the reason this measure is now proposed to be, is to take a stand against those parents who have a chip on their shoulders about their own school days and are prepared to resort to Law to deal with the school rather than supporting the school's attempts to deal with their children.

The DPA was never intended to prevent child bullies from being caught and disciplined and if that is inadvertently now the case then frankly that is insane. Nobody would suggest the DPA should be used to stop a parent dealing with unacceptable use of a mobile phone so there should be no justification for it being used against a school which is acting with the same duty of care s a parent.

If new statute law is required in order to prevent schools being prosecuted under the DPA whilst dealing with cyber bullying and associated issues, then I'm all for it.

That's interesting Chris ,i thought that the child act 1989 removed the 'in loco parentis' bit but on further checking it doesn't it actually re-inforces it ,so as such yes i agree that teachers ,or at least the head of school already has the right to examine content of a childs phone given just cause

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200771)
If anyone agrees that 'teachers' should have the power to go through a persons phone, and delete what they want to. then that says a lot about that person.

if I was a pupil I'd pin protect the phone. let them beat me till I give in.
I'd put pictures of my sister in it too.
As has been said above by Chris whilst at school the teachers are the parents and have the same rights in most matters ,this new bill will remove any confusion and re-inforce the authority of teachers .

Gary L 28-03-2011 12:47
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35200772)
As has been said above by Chris whilst at school the teachers are the parents and have the same rights in most matters ,this new bill will remove any confusion and re-inforce the authority of teachers .
Do you think that the kids themselves will allow it even? the first thing that will come of the power to "give me your phone I want to read your messages and look at your pictures" is either violence or accusations of the teacher doing it for perverted reasons.

kids or not. you don't give 'teachers' the power to read the data on a kids phone.
if they have strong suspicions then get the police involved.

It will never happen anyway.

Jon T 28-03-2011 12:50
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35200742)
Teachers act [I]in loco parentis
Don't know about that one, far too many things a kid does at school needs parental permission for it to be as straight forward as that.

If no extra legislation is needed, and the inspection of kids phones is brought in, then it'll be something else that's used when it suits, and ignored when it's inconvenient, just like every other anti-bullying strategy that's come and gone.

My mum has recently retired from teaching, she thinks this is a dreadful idea. It's dangerous on both legal and moral grounds.

martyh 28-03-2011 12:54
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200783)
Do you think that the kids themselves will allow it even? the first thing that will come of the power to "give me your phone I want to read your messages and look at your pictures" is either violence or accusations of the teacher doing it for perverted reasons.

kids or not. you don't give 'teachers' the power to read the data on a kids phone.
if they have strong suspicions then get the police involved.

It will never happen anyway.
I think you missed the point Gary ,the teachers already have the right as pointed out by Chris so the childrens permission is not required .If children use violence against the teacher to protect the dodgy content then usually the police are involved anyway .
No-one is suggesting that teachers will arbitrarily be confiscating phones to have look at photos and messages in the staff room ,there will doubt be strict controls over who will be granted access and the reasons used to justify it

Caff 28-03-2011 12:56
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200771)
If anyone agrees that 'teachers' should have the power to go through a persons phone, and delete what they want to. then that says a lot about that person.

if I was a pupil I'd pin protect the phone. let them beat me till I give in.
I'd put pictures of my sister in it too.
Never watched over a child's shoulder whilst they surf then? Or had to clean up the HD afterwards until you are certain that they can show themselves to behave responsibly?

Gary L 28-03-2011 12:59
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200789)
Never watched over a child's shoulder whilst they surf then? Or had to clean up the HD afterwards until you are certain that they can show themselves to behave responsibly?
Are we talking porn here?
that's where it will be going one step further from the original thing. I've deleted pics of your girlfriend and some of them saucy texts she sent to you whilst I went through your phone.

martyh 28-03-2011 13:00
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 35200786)
Don't know about that one, far too many things a kid does at school needs parental permission for it to be as straight forward as that.

If no extra legislation is needed, and the inspection of kids phones is brought in, then it'll be something else that's used when it suits, and ignored when it's inconvenient, just like every other anti-bullying strategy that's come and gone.

My mum has recently retired from teaching, she thinks this is a dreadful idea. It's dangerous on both legal and moral grounds.
as far as i know most of the things that require a parents permission are for activities outside school hours so are not covered by in loco parentis


I agree that it could be dangerous on legal and moral grounds but if it is restricted to the head teacher only and for very specific reasons such as bulying or even watching porn in class then i wouldn't have a problem ,because as a parent if i found that on my sons phone i would remove it

Caff 28-03-2011 13:07
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200794)
Are we talking porn here?
that's where it will be going one step further from the original thing. I've deleted pics of your girlfriend and some of them saucy texts she sent to you whilst I went through your phone.
That's beyond banter.
Speak for yourself.
I was talking about watching over young 'un's shoulders to make sure they surf safely and can interact responsibly, as you well know.

Chris 28-03-2011 13:14
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 35200786)
Don't know about that one, far too many things a kid does at school needs parental permission for it to be as straight forward as that.

If no extra legislation is needed, and the inspection of kids phones is brought in, then it'll be something else that's used when it suits, and ignored when it's inconvenient, just like every other anti-bullying strategy that's come and gone.

My mum has recently retired from teaching, she thinks this is a dreadful idea. It's dangerous on both legal and moral grounds.
As Marty says, regular school activities don't require parental permission, only those things that are beyond routine, like school trips, medical inspections/injections etc.

The thing about the proposed law is that it seems to be intended as clarifying what teachers are able to do, not compelling them to do anything. If NASUWT members or any of your mum's colleagues don't wish to make use of the option when dealing with cyber-bullying then there's no reason why they should.

I'm somewhat suspicious of the Union's intervention to be honest. It appears to be motivated by a desire to make sure that teacher's duties are as narrowly defined as possible rather than giving them freedom to do whatever is necessary to maintain good order at school, for the benefit of the majority of pupils.

Caff 28-03-2011 13:17
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
[QUOTE=Chris;35200808]As Marty says, regular school activities don't require parental permission, only those things that are beyond routine, like school trips, medical inspections/injections etc.

The thing about the proposed law is that it seems to be intended as clarifying what teachers are able to do, not compelling them to do anything. If NASUWT members or any of your mum's colleagues don't wish to make use of the option when dealing with cyber-bullying then there's no reason why they should.

I'm somewhat suspicious of the Union's intervention to be honest. It appears to be motivated by a desire to make sure that teacher's duties are as narrowly defined as possible rather than giving them freedom to do whatever is necessary to maintain good order at school, for the benefit of the majority of pupils.[/QUOTE]

Sadly - I have to agree.

Gary L 28-03-2011 13:24
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200802)
That's beyond banter.
Speak for yourself.
I was talking about watching over young 'un's shoulders to make sure they surf safely and can interact responsibly, as you well know.
No I didn't. I thought you was talking about porn.

anyway 'anti-cyber bullying' 'anti-terrorist' all phrases to give an excuse to control people.

Chris 28-03-2011 13:27
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Controlling or discipling children is inherently different than controlling adults. 'anti-bullying' and 'anti-terrorism' are so utterly different that it's pointless trying to discuss them in the same context.

martyh 28-03-2011 13:32
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200812)
No I didn't. I thought you was talking about porn.

anyway 'anti-cyber bullying' 'anti-terrorist' all phrases to give an excuse to control people.

so you dissagree with those measures on the basis that they are trying to control people ,or is that the foil hat talking again

Gary L 28-03-2011 13:37
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35200814)
Controlling or discipling children is inherently different than controlling adults.
You have to remember that a boy say 14 or 15 years of age having pictures of his girlfriend on his phone are not illegal. but will they fall into the 'innapropriate' and to be deleted?

pics of any woman even.
I know this is in the guise of 'anti cyber bullying' but we all know that this will be part of what's classed as innapropriate. and we should mind our own business.

unless we really are going to down the road of teachers being parents.

Quote:
'anti-bullying' and 'anti-terrorism' are so utterly different that it's pointless trying to discuss them in the same context.
They are both the same in the way that the powers involved are of control.

martyh 28-03-2011 13:45
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200821)
You have to remember that a boy say 14 or 15 years of age having pictures of his girlfriend on his phone are not illegal. but will they fall into the 'innapropriate' and to be deleted?

pics of any woman even.
I know this is in the guise of 'anti cyber bullying' but we all know that this will be part of what's classed as innapropriate. and we should mind our own business.

unless we really are going to down the road of teachers being parents.



They are both the same in the way that the powers involved are of control.
That is the reasoning of someone paranoid about state control ,when you have children gary and they go to school you will see things differently ...i hope .

Bullying in schools can and does ruin childrens lives to the extent of suicide .Many posters on this forum have shared their own experiences of bullying at school and ,i have no doubt ,wish that during their time at school the authorities were so "controling" of the problem instead of just pretending there wasn't a problem

Gary L 28-03-2011 13:48
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
if it's just about bullying, then get the police in. they'll only be 5 minutes away.

Caff 28-03-2011 13:52
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200812)
No I didn't. I thought you was talking about porn.

anyway 'anti-cyber bullying' 'anti-terrorist' all phrases to give an excuse to control people.
I apologise :)
However - you're not far wrong off the mark regarding to my youngest ;) :rolleyes:

Gary L 28-03-2011 14:09
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200831)
I apologise :)
However - you're not far wrong off the mark regarding to my youngest ;) :rolleyes:
No need to apologise. I'm thick skinned :)

Maggy 28-03-2011 14:12
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Only a complete ban of students from having mobiles in school will work.They are not necessary or required for the process of learning and should be left at home.

Therefore if this is going to be the required process by the government then I as a head would just insist that any child found with a mobile in school will have it confiscated,be punished and if they persist in bringing the mobile to school then they would face exclusion.I would also search pupils at the gates before school begins.A bit like the customs where every 4th or 5th pupil would be stopped.

I would also ask the government to pay and install any means to make mobiles unusable within the classrooms.That way we can ensure that public exams are not tainted by the possible use of mobiles.Too expensive for the government though as well as probably needing some legal rethinking.

Caff 28-03-2011 14:15
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200844)
Only a complete ban of students from having mobiles in school will work.They are not necessary or required for the process of learning and should be left at home.

Therefore if this is going to be the required process by the government then I as a head would just insist that any child found with a mobile in school will have it confiscated,be punished and if they persist in bringing to mobile to school then they would face exclusion.I would also search pupils at the gates before school begins.A bit like the customs where every 4th or 5th pupil would be stopped.

I would also ask the government to pay and install any means to make mobiles unusable within the classrooms.That way we can ensure that public exams are not tainted by the possible use of mobiles.Too expensive for the government though as well as probably needing some legal rethinking.
Calm down.
Many parents insist on their wee ones carrying a mobile for safety/peace of mind. I'm talking way back to primary ones.
Exams - leave your bag/blazer on the peg outside? Or plain make sure it's switched of during teaching time?

Gary L 28-03-2011 14:21
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200844)
Only a complete ban of students from having mobiles in school will work.They are not necessary or required for the process of learning and should be left at home.
Give them lockers like our American friends have. if the phone is found on them and not in the locker then use the normal punishment. you can't tell them to leave them at home. phones are part of everyones lives now.
even childrens.

the cost is minimal. if they can't take bullying seriously enough to justify the cost. then shut up I say.

Caff 28-03-2011 14:26
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200848)
Give them lockers like our American friends have. if the phone is found on them and not in the locker then use the normal punishment. you can't tell them to leave them at home. phones are part of everyones lives now.
even childrens.

the cost is minimal. if they can't take bullying seriously enough to justify the cost. then shut up I say.

And how would you regulate finding out if they did not put their phone in their locker but was in pockets with all sorts of paraphenalia?

Gary L 28-03-2011 14:33
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200851)
And how would you regulate finding out if they did not put their phone in their locker but was in pockets with all sorts of paraphenalia? The teaching day is too short too accommodate a complete pat-down of every pupil.
Same as you would for if they had drugs on their person. you don't know, but if you do find out then you punish them for breaking the rules. then if it turns out that you have grounds for suspicion that the phone was used for cyber bullying purposes. then call the police while the alleged sits in the office waiting.

Caff 28-03-2011 14:43
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200855)
Same as you would for if they had drugs on their person. you don't know, but if you do find out then you punish them for breaking the rules. then if it turns out that you have grounds for suspicion that the phone was used for cyber bullying purposes. then call the police while the alleged sits in the office waiting.
I wouldn't punish school children like that.
I'd call in someone with more expertise than I have and sit quietly and responsively with them until expert help arrived. Crickey - what part of the world did you grown up in?

Gary L 28-03-2011 14:47
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200862)
I wouldn't punish school children like that.
I'd call in someone with more expertise than I have and sit quietly and responsively with them until expert help arrived. Crickey - what part of the world did you grown up in?
You're going to have to apologise again :)

Punish them like what?
I said if they have a phone on them and not in the locker, then punish them as you would for breaking any school rules.
(do they still do detention?)

Then I said if they think that the phone may have been used for cyber bullying purposes, then sit them in an office and get the police to take over.

Maggy 28-03-2011 14:49
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200848)
Give them lockers like our American friends have. if the phone is found on them and not in the locker then use the normal punishment. you can't tell them to leave them at home. phones are part of everyones lives now.
even childrens.

the cost is minimal. if they can't take bullying seriously enough to justify the cost. then shut up I say.
Rubbish! Children do not NEED a phone in school. What they need are fewer distractions and a better attitude.:rolleyes:

Gary L 28-03-2011 14:53
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200867)
Rubbish! Children do not NEED a phone in school. What they need are fewer distractions and a better attitude.:rolleyes:
No they don't need it in school. before and after school is when they need it.

Maggy 28-03-2011 14:54
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200845)
Calm down.
Many parents insist on their wee ones carrying a mobile for safety/peace of mind. I'm talking way back to primary ones.
Exams - leave your bag/blazer on the peg outside? Or plain make sure it's switched of during teaching time?
Sorry but children do not need a phone in school..and when did we allow parents to start dictating about such issues in schools.
We are not there for the convenience of parents,we are not paid child minders, we are educators and it's about time we are allowed to chuffing well be able to do so without the entire universe hanging over our shoulders going,you can't do that and you must do this and my Jenny needs that...Parents should stay at the school gates UNLESS invited in.

Gary L 28-03-2011 14:57
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200877)
Sorry but children do not need a phone in school..
Why don't you set an example and leave your phone at home when you go to school. instead of leaving it in your bag or office?

Maggy 28-03-2011 15:06
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200884)
Why don't you set an example and leave your phone at home when you go to school. instead of leaving it in your bag or office?
Tsk,tsk..just what the children would say.So typically teenager in attitude.:rofl:

Bit along the lines of demanding that teachers should wear school uniform because the students have to..

No I say again mobiles are not needed by students in school and it's my last word.;)

Caff 28-03-2011 15:08
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200866)
You're going to have to apologise again :)

Punish them like what?
I said if they have a phone on them and not in the locker, then punish them as you would for breaking any school rules.
(do they still do detention?)

Then I said if they think that the phone may have been used for cyber bullying purposes, then sit them in an office and get the police to take over.
OK - but give me a reason :)
There are policies in force in every school relating to behaviour (and one for staff behaviour too). Guidelines are set down by the local authority and schools generate their own policies, all in in line with government demands.
What if there are no lockers???

Gary L 28-03-2011 15:10
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200894)
What if there are no lockers???
Like I said. if it protects the victims of bullying, then provide the lockers.

just like that thing about "if it saves the life of one child then it was all worth it"

Caff 28-03-2011 15:13
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200877)
Sorry but children do not need a phone in school..and when did we allow parents to start dictating about such issues in schools.
We are not ther for the convenience of parents,we are not paid child minders, we are educators and it's about time we are allowed to chuffing well be able to do so without the entire universe hanging over our shoulders going,you can't do that and you must do this and my Jenny needs that...Parents should stay at the school gates UNLESS invited in.
I didn't say that children needed one but many parents require them to have one on them for reassurance.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200899)
Like I said. if it protects the victims of bullying, then provide the lockers.

just like that thing about "if it saves the life of one child then it was all worth it"
It's enough for some of them to remember if they have their lunch box and PE kit in school let alone remember about a locker and code :D

Gary L 28-03-2011 15:16
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200892)
Tsk,tsk..just what the children would say.So typically teenager in attitude.:rofl:

Bit along the lines of demanding that teachers should wear school uniform because the students have to..

No I say again mobiles are not needed by students in school and it's my last word.;)
But you agree that they need them before and after school? :)

Caff 28-03-2011 15:19
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200904)
But you agree that they need them before and after school? :)
I wish they didn't have to, and most don't. Working or distracted parents are a 'mare. Kids just like 'stuff' :D
Maggie and I are at tangents due to the difference in ages that we teach :)

martyh 28-03-2011 15:21
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200877)
Sorry but children do not need a phone in school..and when did we allow parents to start dictating about such issues in schools.
We are not ther for the convenience of parents,we are not paid child minders, we are educators and it's about time we are allowed to chuffing well be able to do so without the entire universe hanging over our shoulders going,you can't do that and you must do this and my Jenny needs that...Parents should stay at the school gates UNLESS invited in.

I agree with you on this ,there is no need for a mobile in school at all and what we are forgetting is that most of the cyber bullying happens at home or to and from school not in the class .My 19yr old apprentice is banned from using his mobile at work ,i will tollerate being interupted with a tweet or facebook or a text from the bird he dumped on saturday ,he lives with my rule or he doesn't work ..simple,the same should apply at school imo

Gary L 28-03-2011 15:25
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200907)
I wish they didn't have to, and most don't. Working or distracted parents are a 'mare. Kids just like 'stuff' :D
Maggie and I are at tangents due to the difference in ages that we teach :)
She's the Mary Whitehouse type, and you're the Mary Poppins :)

martyh 28-03-2011 15:26
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200899)
Like I said. if it protects the victims of bullying, then provide the lockers.

just like that thing about "if it saves the life of one child then it was all worth it"
Why go to the expense of providing lockers to cover up a problem ,that won't cure it ,thats just trying to bury the problem it's attitudes and discipline that need to change not storage facilities

Caff 28-03-2011 15:40
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200911)
She's the Mary Whitehouse type, and you're the Mary Poppins :)
And you are...?

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35200914)
Why go to the expense of providing lockers to cover up a problem ,that won't cure it ,thats just trying to bury the problem it's attitudes and discipline that need to change not storage facilities
Yes. Space and finances are very tightly squeezed let alone supervision of them.

martyh 28-03-2011 15:50
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
[QUOTE=Caff;35200924]And you are...?

QUOTE]

he's the Kevin or Perry type :D

Caff 28-03-2011 16:29
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
[QUOTE=martyh;35200935]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200924)
And you are...?

QUOTE]

he's the Kevin or Perry type :D
Gawd - got one of those still at home.
Where's me spoonful of medicine for that? :D

@ OP:
Testy ground and plain wrong. Youngsters know their rights and so do their parents. Lockers are not the answer - principles are.
If schools need to step in to educate children into a meaningful and rewarding and productive society then they have to. If and IF the children need to learn about a pat-down or worse then they'd better get used to it.

dazzer89 28-03-2011 17:56
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35200612)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12868879



I'm inclined to agree..but then I was highly dubious about the idea of searching pupils for drugs and knives.
They shouldn't take their phones into class anyway so I can't see the problem. Would you take your phone into a interview turned on?

Gary L 28-03-2011 17:56
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200924)
And you are...?
Just Gary :)

Maggy 28-03-2011 18:15
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzer89 (Post 35201021)
They shouldn't take their phones into class anyway so I can't see the problem. Would you take your phone into a interview turned on?
I'm dubious about being instructed on how to behave as a teacher and what to do etc by the government whom probably won't provide the infrastructure to aid teachers to do so. .I'm in firm agreement about no child needing a mobile in school IF you had read this thread

Parents who don't support this will go out of their way to make it difficult and frankly most head teachers won't bother to do more than pay lip service to it.

---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200924)
And you are...?
Best not to go there.To do so is to invite infractions.;)

Caff 28-03-2011 18:20
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

@ Maggy:

"Best not to go there.To do so is to invite infractions.;) "

I accept the warning, and thank you.

martyh 28-03-2011 18:27
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35201038)
---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

@ Maggy:

"Best not to go there.To do so is to invite infractions.;) "

I accept the warning, and thank you.

now think of those poor soles that didn't get the warning in time :(

Caff 28-03-2011 18:31
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35201043)
now think of those poor soles that didn't get the warning in time :(
I didn't think I'd done that much wrong TBH. I can only think of one.
I wouldn't want to skulk away with shame or a temper.
Ahem - I'm :notopic:

:D


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