Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12800725

Lets hope the present crisis in Libya resulting in higher oil prices don't have a detrimental effect but all we can do is play a waiting game for the next 3/4 years.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

got to love how obvious this guy is one sided.

it would be a huge mistake to water down cuts.

but not a problem to scrap tax increases.

doing either would increase deficit, but he talks as if one is disastrous and the other is fine.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Any bets fuel duty gets frozen, rather than dropped.

If it ain't dropped, the recovery will be slower.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

shame that 8 billion will end up wasted in Libya ( or a good protion of it every time a fighter takes to the air or a missile is launched)

This whole cuts and Vat increase thing is a total waste of time El Gov will just blow it all somewhere else instead of paying debts

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

yeah, funny how there is always money for invading other countries.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

I think if spirits are going up I will buy some bottles of vodka today.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

May as well fill your fuel tank full of the stuff, at the rate fuel's increasing; it's gonna be cheaper to run your car on alcohol.

I can see fuel duty being frozen, as if that actually helps given it's gone up a chunk already AGAIN.


Rant on
I just hope they don't try to wring the last drop out of an already bone dry mop.

I wonder who else we can drop bombs on in order to hike the price of fuel up
Rant off

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

£14, I spend £20+ (mind you it is 45 proof)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Sadly the price of oil went up before we were dropping bombs because of the unrest in several middle east despotic countries and nothing to do with our government's efforts at all.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Just watching PMQs - Some points about the budget raised - However, this was pointed out by a Tory MP and I sit beside myself with disbelief that this was allowed to continue under the last useless Labour Government. It cost £330+ to change a light bulb in an NHS hospital, is it any wonder why we are scraping the barrel and having to look at spending cuts when Labour couldn't have given a bloody crap about value for money. What a waste and what a farce the last Labour Government was. :afire:

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

OMFG, alcohol tax frozen.

Fuel duty cut by 1p (garages near me raised it last week by 1p) so I'll fill up tomorrow.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

You'll probably find many garages will increase the price now and reduce it by 1p later today.

the average car holds 55 litres. that will be 55p you'll be saving :)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Just a quick summary of some of the things announced in today's budget:-

• Corp. Tax cut by 2% from April and further 1% per year for 3 years.
• Income Tax and National Insurance to merge but could take years.
• Labour's planned increase in Fuel duty cancelled. 1p Cut in Fuel duty from 6pm tonight. Fuel Stabilizer to be put in to place.
• Business Milage rates from 40p to 45p.
• Air Passenger duty rise delayed until next year.
• Council Tax Frozen in every England Council.
• New Private Jet Tax Budget Introduced.
• Personal Tax allowances increased this year by £1,000 to raise to £8,105 in 2012.
• 50p Tax rate for highest earners a temporary measure. Osborne wants to see if it actually raises enough for the coffers.
• £100 Million to Fix Britains Roads and pot holes.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

They'll need that just for my street...

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

My local garage dropped the price by 4p a litre last week.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Do you live in a poor area?

ones by me dropped it by 1p.
Shell is actually cheaper. Super unleaded is 2p more than regular unleaded being sold at others.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Ditto.

I drive down what can only be described as a bombed runway.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

After that rotten winter I should imagine that there are a fair few roads in a pretty poor state so I doubt that it will go as far as is needed.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Baccy up again of course... and hand rolling baccy taking a bigger hammering..

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Ridiculous. that'll put the price up by around £1.30 on a 50g pack. making it around £14 a pkt.

Plenty more people will turn criminal and buy the 'illegal' stuff now. if you gotta smoke and you can't afford it. go to the dark side.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Nobody's 'gotta' smoke, though. Try quitting, you'll feel loads better, you'll be better off, your clothes won't stink ... Everyone's a winner. ;)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Including me who sells the stuff.

The meagre profit hardly covers the increased insurance costs.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

We need to keep smoking and smelling bad to save you money and get the country back on its feet!

but will you let us do all that for you in peace, no! :)

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------

What insurance?
actually how much profit does a shop make from 25g/50g pack?

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Believe it or not, the thought of you going to an early, nicotine-stained grave just to pay my child allowance doesn't fill me with joy ...

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Thanks Chris.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

the streets are awash with black market baccy -and cigs - i blame taxes .

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

That's the real reason why they've put it up so much. they're peed that we're buying it cheaper on the streets. but I'm glad that the governments easing the burden and saving us around 50p per tankfull of petrol. that goes a long way to paying the bills does that 50p.

Liby's costing millions of pounds a day. smoke more!

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

[QUOTE=Gary L;35198295]That's the real reason why they've put it up so much. they're peed that we're buying it cheaper on the streets. but I'm glad that the governments easing the burden and saving us around 50p per tankfull of petrol. that goes a long way to paying the bills does that 50p.

and don't forget if you quit smoking you'll live longer and be able to work longer and pay more taxes ,so you see taxes are good for you

on a side note i will be better off than you cos my car holds 60 ltrs so i save 60 p every time you save 50 .

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Fair point.

I was working on averages. mine holds 88 litres :)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

your gona be loaded ;)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

I'll be able to afford to eat and pay for gas and electric now! :)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

thanks for the list, to me what stands out is a corp tax rate drop which wont be effective other than to reduce tax intake when we supposed to be closing a deficit, and the merging of NI with income tax.

On the latter is the most interesting as NI was originally created to specifically fund pensions and incapacity benefit, recent changes to IB will almost demolish it as a benefit as long term plans are to kick most people of it and overall NI still has a large surplus used for other purposes so in effect NI has become a generic tax source so the merge makes some sense I guess. However thinking about it a bit more this comes a tax cut by stealth to corp's again as currently companies pay half of NI themselves whilst the employee pays income tax. So it will be interesting to see how a migration is handled, would people in effect see a net salary reduction taking over the company part of NI as income tax or will it be handled in a manner where the average worker doesnt lose out.

On the corp tax people may (rightly) feel all the aggressive cuts going on in social services etc. are simply a way of shifting money to corporate profits with this tax cut.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Is that your personal view or do you have citations from a spectrum of economists to indicate that it will have zero stimulating effect on the private sector and will not be a pro-growth policy?

If it suits their agenda I'm sure that's how they feel, especially if basing that view on your assumption that the corporation tax reduction will have no stimulating effect on the economy.

Ireland's experience says otherwise.

Damn those vicious cuts.

Planned Public Sector Spending in £ billion

Year Change
2010-11 696.8 0.0
2011-12 701.8 +5.0
2012-13 713.0 +12.2
2013-14 724.2 +11.2
2014-15 739.8 +15.6

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

No, they aren't going to shove employer's NI onto the employee, that would be absurd. It'll be replaced by something else most likely or at very least employers required to hand that money to employees in increased salary or hourly rate so that they are no worse off.

There is nothing in this budget to shift burdens from corporations to individuals, the only policies that may give that impression are, rightly, being done to promote growth. The temporary VAT cut was to promote increased consumer spending, the corporation tax cut is to promote increased business activity in the UK, the kind that is needed to create jobs, those lovely things that turn people from welfare claimants into tax payers and mean money for the treasury instead of outlay from the DWP.

If you're looking for a nasty tax rise try this:

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

a) Shop insurance is heavily loaded if you sell/stock cigs. The more you stock the higher the premium.

b) Depends on what you charge, a £6.47 price marked pack of Golden Virginia 25g would earn you around 40p. 20 L & B price marked £5.85 would get you around 25p.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

why am I not surprised on the carbon tax. That one is indeed nasty as already some of the poor pay over 40% of income on electric/gas. It does seem they going out of their way to make (a) low income pay more tax and especially (b) shift taxation to benefit claimants. Easily done by taxing essentials and not taxing income.

All I am seeing is taxation been shifted from forms of taxation that the poor are excempt from such as income tax and NI (both benefit claimants dont pay and low income pay less), to consumption taxation which affects everyone equally and as a result is disproportioned to ability to pay.

My view on the corp tax is just my view yes, obviously I cannot state fact for something that hasnt happened, my view is quite simple really.

If a company wants to save on corp tax they will simply go to a tax haven, dropping a few % wont change that as the tax haven will still be cheaper, so all it will really serve is to boost profits, increase shareholder dividends as a result of the boosted profits and enlarge some exec bonuses. There is a slim chance workers would see wage increases as a result but I think that is unlikely. I would be extremely surprised if corp tax intake increased following this change.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Where does the increase in tax-free allowance threshold fit into what you are seeing?

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

could someone clarify if the change in the tax free threshold will come into affect for the 10-11 or 11-12 tax year

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

It goes up £1000 this April, and another £600 in April 2012.

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

My Daughter put £10 worth of petrol in her car tonight (at 6:30pm).

She paid a penny more per litre than this time last week. So much for the reduction.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Thanks for that. I get an idea of how much I'm depriving him of now :)

have you noticed a drop in sales of rolling tobacco since everyone started buying it on the black market? I know a lot of shops don't stock the 50g because nobody buys the stuff when you can get 2 for the same price.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

cheers for that Paul M :tu: that will be a handy chunk towards my anual refund

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

That one is an oddity only happened because of lib dems.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

I see they following the trend of propping up the housing market, something governments just refuse to let go downwards.

It should be simple, if you cant afford to buy a home then dont buy one.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

it is part of the budget that you claim is doing nothing but take cash away from the low paid. Either it is doing as you said, or it is not. Which?

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

More peole are rolling now hence why HMG has targetted that market. Interestingly customers' theory is that they will smoke less due to the hassle of rolling. :shrug:
HMG's action plays straight into the hands of smugglers...

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

OVerall it is, as I said its an oddity. It is just one part of a budget.

If you dont understand what I mean then I am sorry.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Just watched the budget in full, seemed quite 'coalition'. Less on the fiscal right than would be expected from an all Tory budget but considerably to the right of what would be expected of the Liberal Democrats.

Seemed quite responsible and largely reasonable, a few good measures in it to promote growth, a couple of measures to try and ease the pain of inflation and all apparently costed by the OBR. Responsibility seemed to be the order of the day - a pleasing and pragmatic contrast to declaring a ton of spending commitments, pulling growth figures out of the hindmost, borrowing according to an arbitrary 'golden rule' and bombastic announcements of the end of boom and bust using unbalanced public and private debt fuelled growth along with an unprecedented asset boom as some sort of evidence.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

I probably need to watch in full also rather than relying on news reports that pick bits out for sensation.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzo3wjyd1x8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDL7ogXKItA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fFIYtgFi3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHWZ_A0-Qng

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Looks like the government chose not to renew this benefit - does it make it a stealth benefit cut?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...allowance.html

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

i saw this on the news this morning - we will have to see what next winter is like and how many old people freeze to death in their own homes before judgement can be made .

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Ozzy Osbourne would have done a better budget.

As far as I can make out, when Labour left office - borrowing was less than was forecast and growth was higher than forecast. A year into The Tories and growth has not only fallen South but is in decline, is planned to go even further South than forecast this year and is in trouble of running out of places to go South next year. In addition to an extra £45bn worth of government borrowing over the next 6 years.

In case you hadn't noticed:

- the economy is shrinking
- unemployment is up
- government borrowing is up

Exactly how is this (as the Tories say) heading in the right direction?

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------

Sounds about right. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

In case you hadn't noticed, the last Labour chancellor stated, less than six months before the election, that measures more drastic than those taken by Thatcher would be necessary by whichever Party won the election.

Further, the economy is not shrinking. It is growing. It is growing more slowly than forecast, but it is still growing.

But if listening to Ed Milliband huffing and puffing gives you a warm feeling inside, I don't suppose I can blame you for taking his soundbites and rhetoric at face value.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Growing????? :dunce::dunce::dunce: Take your head out of your backside please.

In case you hadn't noticed they desperately want to get rid of the minimum wage something which has bougt stability to many who were paid peanuts when the Tories were last in power.. They are pushing through not 1 but 3 private members bills to do it.

The first is the Employment Opportunities Bill, that would allow ‘opt-outs’ of the Minimum Wage, though anyone who has worked for an agency will know there will certainly be situations where if you want to sign up for an agency to get work part of the contract would include an opt-out of the Minimum Wage.

The second bill is the one that’s just been chopped, a Minimum Wage Amendment Bill, that would force the Low Pay Commission to look at areas with above-average unemployment rates and automatically set the Minimum Wage at a lower rate, which the Government would be obliged to enact.

The third bill is the Training Wage Bill, which will again allow opt-outs of the Minimum Wage for people who are training.

Same Old Tories - Same Old Deceit

Its hurting but it isn't working.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Hahaha, very funny.

As I'm clearly so mathematically challenged, could you please explain to me in what sense the graph on this page shows the economy shrinking:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12830224

As I predicted, you seem happy enough to swallow and parrot whatever Ed says, so there's probably little point trying to have an actual exchange of views with you.

Still, I am eagerly awaiting proof that you're not completely innumerate. Your thoughts on the graph, please?

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

More Tory bottom gravy from the cave dwellers.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Fair enough. I think you've given most of the people following this thread sufficient reason to ignore you now. My work here is done. ;)

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

99.9 of that graph is predicted growth, it's already telling lies .

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

See ya. Its hurting but it isn't working.

:dozey:

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Bye bye. Feel free to come and rejoin the discussion when you've grasped the difference between "the economy is shrinking" and "the economy isn't growing as fast as we thought".

Perhaps you should see a neurologist.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Another brilliant, detailed right wing analysis I see. :dunce::dunce:

I'm really struggling with this budget and the Tories / liars approach to things.

As someone who is trying to get a small business off the ground, the budget benefits me, and as Cameroon keeps saying I, as an entrepreneur, will be the one to get us out of this mess (who'd have thought a CF Mod would have been a solution to this countries problems eh? )

I don't agree with turning everything over to the private sector like the Tories are doing and I don't agree with the neo-liberal agenda of liberalising everything in sight whilst reducing the role of the state (I've seen what the World Bank has done to developing countries under this pretence and it ain't pretty I can tell you). Liberalism requires that there should be a tradition of charity and that it is not the states job to redistribute wealth, however from where I stand, people (especially rich ones) are no longer interested in anyone but themselves and so to an extent the state must be there to help moves this wealth to people in real need.

Its all just one big fat mess. One week the financial institutions say spend, the next week they say cut. No one really knows for sure what would have worked or what will work, the only thing that we can do is wait and see. Osborne's budget is supposedly pro-growth and so if next year unemployment falls as he predicts, and growth does occur then coughkudoscough

Labour did spend too much. Keynes stated that economies work in cycles, ie boom and bust; during times of boom you're supposed to save, so that when the inevitable bust comes, you use those savings to spend your way out of the recession more quickly. However, this time we didn't save and so we'd have to borrow to spend out way out, which would increase the deficit. I'm not placing all the blame on labour as that would be simplistic. For me it also comes out of culture of greed that has hit the west, especially in the city of london...which for me the Tories plan to do absoutely naff all about.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

If you're trying to get a small business going, you really need to understand the difference between 'shrinking' and 'growing, but more slowly than previously forecast'. This is not a right-wing analysis of anything, it is GCSE-level maths.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

dazzer nice post, not too dissimiliar from my views. Recently I have came across pro labour whilst the truth is I feel both parties have messed up. But its the tories and lib dems in power now so they the ones getting my current crtisicm.

Ultimately it doesnt matter how low tax is, its more diffilcult to run a business in a shrinking economy with restricted credit.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Two sentences, any pretence of gravity within the rest of the posts abandoned.

I must admit to failing to see where the struggle is for anyone beyond those who believe that everyone should be equal regardless of ability or productivity which obviously totally removes any incentive to work at all let alone excel. The state should supply a safety net, it is absolutely not its job to equalise everyone. If our state taxes me much more they can kiss goodbye to 100% of my income to tax, those are the joys of the international, mobile economy and why all states can't simply ramp taxes up the backside.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Ignition I still havent watched the budget but to prove what I meant I do think the enterprise zones are a decent idea. Tax cuts in areas that need a kickstart to try and make them more viable than richer areas. I havent checked if my area is included but I would assume areas that have high reliance on the public sector would be the prime targets.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

The economy isn't shrinking, it had a single quarter where it shrank and is now expanding again. I'm unsure where the fundamental difficulty is with this.

You don't come across as pro Labour just pro socialist, and the results of those policies are pretty easy to see and aren't pretty. Even traditionally high tax economies are reducing their tax rates, people don't seem to like going to work and seeing over half their income disappearing into the pockets of the state to distribute as it sees fit, who'd have thought?

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:34 ----------

Perhaps it would be wise to watch the budget prior to offering opinions and judgements on it.

I appreciate we're all used to budgets whose content is largely about how much the government is going to spend, what they're going to give us, and how the 'golden rule' says that it's all fine and how it won't increase the nation's debt over the economic cycle, which is whenever the chancellor decides to whenever the chancellor decides.

Do consider having a look. As I have said before and will again just from the evidence of this forum people absolutely will not tolerate the kind of taxes that would be required for the kind of economy you and dazzer appear to want to see.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Oil firms warn jobs will go after tax hike

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12844157

How likely is this to happen?:erm:

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

think of back to when the min wage got introduced and similiar claims were made.

in my view unlikely but may be some losses just not as many as they claim.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Don't how big the effect will be but it is likely that jobs will be lost by businesses choosing not to invest in the North Sea. Last I heard a lot of the companies trying to extract oil and gas aren't the big players. The increase in the supplemental tax of more than fifty percent will certainly force firms to re-evaluate investment decisions and also to consider the possibility of the tax rate going up if oil prices rise further.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

It makes me laugh, as they say that they are going help the unemployed get jobs - HOW, there isn't any jobs going in this country, as most of the companies are mocing abroad as it is cheaper.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

eh? I thought there were jobs in this country, but they were all going to foreigners?

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

They are going to make sure there are more technical colleges and also more apprenticeships as they are aiming to get more 18-25 year old off the unemployed list onto the employed list.Well that's what is promised at the moment.I hope it works.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

At a guess, given it was the central theme of the budget, reducing costs of doing business within the UK through reducing corporation tax and bureaucracy to make us a more competitive country.

Again just a wild guess :shrug:

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Greedy garages defy the petrol price cut after Osborne's bid to help drivers

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Hb6sSCdy

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Are you surprised?

a more direct and better way would have been to reduce road tax. consumption taxation is always problematic.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

no not really -it was an ill conceived idea at best ,its done bugger all to help the motorist and all that talk of scraping the 4 p rise is cobblers [it was never going to happen the country would have erupted ] fuel still attracts too much tax and its crippling us.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

A cynical move by Liebour designed to generate Euro-friction for the Tory government he expected would soon be running the country.

After all they have done to the economy of the UK, I cannot believe there are actually still people who think Labour would be doing a better job of things right now.

Re: Budget 2011: Government 'due £8bn windfall'
 

Garage by me put the 1p back on that they dropped, and raised it an extra 1p just because they can.

we're being screwed and there's nothing we can do about it.