Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

A minimum of 40yrs before being considered for parole .The judge went to town on him ,good for him :tu:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...d_For_40_Years

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Murderers get less.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Mass murderers don't. And in english law, being an accessory to murder is treated as seriously as being the actual murderer. Had Moat survived, his sentence would have been similar, if not longer.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Yes they do ,and i would like to see this sentence as a bench mark for other trials ,murderers 50+ yrs ,accomplices 40+ yrs

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Ho ho ho. :D

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Have to agree with you Derek.:)

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

It could not have happened to a nicer pair of villains.:D

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Agreed, also the fact this odious pair didn't hold their hands up and admit their guilt, or show an ounce of remorse at their trial just reinforces the judge got this right.
I don't know what the outcome would have been had the pair of them "came clean" admitted their guilt and threw themselves at the mercy of the court....either way they must have realized they were going down for a very long time indeed.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

And lets make sure they serve the time they have been given and while we are at it refuse both of them the right to appeal.

These 2 don't deserve to see the outside of a prison wall ever again.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

You can bet there are lawyers lining up already to challenge that ruling and get them out early.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

They have a life sentence with a minimum term to be spent inside. At 30/40 years minimum, it's quite likely they won't ever get out.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Murderers, rapists, paedophiles, and terrorists get less.
I *get* that the courts wish to create a deterrent in order to help protect the police, but since when was the life of a police officer deemed greater than that of a member of the public ?
I know of cases where people have been brutally murdered at random, and the perpetrator (never mind any accomplice) received far far less of a sentence. I'm sure most if not all of us could cite similar cases.

If Moat and his two buddies had shot your child in the face and were later apprehended, the three of them would be out in 5 years.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

The sentences weren't just for shooting the police officer in the face - from the OP link

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Given your point of view, I suppose it could've been worse then.

As they could've been sentenced for:
conspiring to shoot a police officer,
conspiring to conspire to attempt to shoot a police officer,
conspiring to conspire to shooting a police officer,
conspiring to aiding an abetting a convict with the intention of shooting a police officer,
conspiring to conspire to aiding and abetting a convict with the intention of shooting a police officer,
and finally - shooting a police officer.

Oh please...

The same could be applied to any other crime.

Such as the random murder example I gave earlier.
Conspring to murder, attempted murder, etc etc

The fact remains that courts are routinely dishing out far lesser sentences for far more serious crimes. I'd wager that if PC David Rathband had been a pedestrian rather than a police officer, the trio would out in 5 yrs or less.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Who is the third person.:confused:

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I'd love to see you lose a wad of cash on such a ludicrous bet.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Its from my theoretical example above:


---------- Post added at 12:00 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

Well, I could easily afford to lose many wads of cash on many ludicrous bets.
But don't hold your breath. Ludicrous you say?

Put your money where your gob is. With Google at my fingertips, name your sum and we'll see just how ludicrous it is.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

That's always been the case. The Police are seen as the public face of justice and attacks on them are seen by the courts as an attack on the justice system itself. That is why there are specific offences of assaulting a Police officer.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I have a better idea: show yourself capable of setting out a logical argument. You have posited that someone could fatally shoot a random pedestrian in a town centre in the face and then get a tariff of just five years on the resulting life sentence. Please now find some evidence for this asumption.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Shooting at random into a crowd? That'll be 18 and a half years then

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nding-men.html

Not exactly 5 years is it?

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Okay, you've back down. You losing a wad of cash as a result of you stating your desire to see me lose a wad of cash would be a classic case of being "Hoisted by his own petard !".
Perhaps another time then Chris.

What I mentioned about sentencing isn't an assumption as you put it.
I read the news every day, and in recent years there have been countless cases of people literally getting off with light sentences, for murder.
Surely you can think of a few recent cases?

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

Derek, lets stick with facts. I said time until released, so your 5 years is actually 10 (half time with good behaviour).

I did a search, and found so many cases of people being sentenced with 3 years (1.5 with good behaviour) that I decided posting links is just futile.

Chris, do you still think the sentencing guidelines are the same no matter if the victim is a pedestrian or a police officer?

If you still believe that, then I'll post some links for 'ya. :)

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

A life sentence with a minimum tariff of 18 years would mean that after they serve the minimum 18 years they are then eligible to apply for parole but remain on licence for the rest of their life.

They don't automatically stroll out the prison gates at the halfway point.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

If you make a claim, in any reasonable debate scenario it's up to you to provide the evidence to back it up. That you don't even appear to grasp this means there's little point continuing.

Quite amusing how you get so excited about me "backing down" though. Are you really 34, or perhaps just 14?

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I was merely indifferent, hardly excited. But if you disagree well then thats quite a claim there Chris, I'll remind you that the initial burden of proof lies with the claiment. This means that if you make a claim, its up to YOU to prove it.
I didn't mean to cause any hurt, my intention was merely to provide you with an opportunity to demonstrate your sincerity, tbh a simple admission of *wrongliness* would have sufficed (meaning you get to keep your tenner ;)).

Teacher shot in face by pupil:
£385 fine, and 8 month referral order
http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/ne...l/article.html

Need I say more?

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

A couple of things.

He was 13. Short of actual murder your chances of getting locked up for crimes when under 16 are pretty remote.

It was an air gun. Whilst they can still be deadly they aren't in the same league as a sawn-off shotgun.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I'm glad we agree on that point. In which case, please prove your claim that a lethal shooting of a random passer-by in public would result in a tariff of 5 years.
Yes, you do need say more. You need to find evidence of a murderer getting a five-year tariff on his life sentence for a random killing, as per your claim made earlier today.

Causing deliberate injury with a low-powered air pistol, whilst a reprehensible act in itself, does not even come close to matching the crime you described earlier.

Please try harder.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

It seems that you fail to realise that you are making just as much of a claim as I am.
I'm saying that if one were to attack a member of the police, expect a stiffer sentence - this is the accepted norm.
You're saying that if one were to attack a member of the police, then you are sentenced the same - this goes against common understanding.

The burden is actually on you to prove your case, as extradordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
You absolutely cannot prove your stance, because its pure fantasy and exists mainly within the confines of your mind.

C'mon Chris, everyone knows that if you attack the police, then its interpreted (by the system) as an attack on the system, and sentences are handed out as such.

As for the single link I provided, that case could've easily been interpreted as attempted murder, conspiracy to murder, etc. If you didn't realise, air pistols can kill too.

Here's another example, this time of a random killing (not involving police) and a lenient sentence:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/de...girl-remain-uk

Now, I ask you this: If Mohammed Ibrahim had run over a policeman, do you think the sentence (or lack of) would've been the same ?

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Ah, the goalposts move from "murder" to "driving while disqualified and failing to stop after an accident"

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I am making no claims at all. I certainly have not made the claim that you say I have. I have simply asked you to provide evidence for yours.

Please prove that a random, fatal shooting of a member of the public in a British high street has ever resulted in, or is likely to result in, a life term with a tariff of only five years.

Can you do that, or not?

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Directed at Hugh also, since when was the specific targetting of police officers a random killing? Indeed, speak about "moving goalposts" right enough.
Chris, you say its red, I say its blue. When clearly its blue, then you resort to oh wait, you said it was a "particular kind of blue". As if arguing pedantics somehow validates you stance.
However, in this case it won't save you since of course I can provide evidence. I'm just rather dumfounded that you actually need me to cite a reference for you to know that in this country, murderers *rarely* get life sentences. Criminals sent to prison for murder are often out in less than 5 years.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

A simple "No, I can't" would have done. ;)

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Ah, hit and run isn't murder then. Okay Hugh.

Chris, I'll provide some links later.

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:06 ----------

Oh yes I certainly can, I'll take your comment as admission that you actually don't believe murderers often spend less than 5 yrs in jail. This is for the record. You also haven't acknowledged what Derek mentioned, in that if one were to attack the police then a stiffer sentence should be expected.
Both points will be put to bed later.

Its just fortunate for you that I'm actually at work now, and although I can type a message, Googling isn't possible at this time. Have patience ;)

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Balls. The average length of time someone on a life sentence spends in pokey is in the region of 12 years. Since murder attracts a mandatory sentence they fall into this category.

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

Correct. Thats why he wasn't charged with murder or even causing death by dangerous driving.

Unless of course you think everyone who is involved in a fatal RTA should get jailed regardless of whether they were at fault.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Obviously not, otherwise the charge would have been murder, surely?

Anyhoo, look forward to your evidence supporting your statement

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Me too.;)

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I'm not holding out much hope to be honest, Sparkie.

You've demonstrated some fairly basic ignorance of the criminal justice system throughout this thread, you see, starting with your misunderstanding of how the life sentence tariff system works. Derek set you straight on it a few posts back back. I noticed you never acknowledged his post on this subject. I assume you thought nobody would notice that you got called out on this fairly basic error. Bad luck.

You have a very strange definition of "murder" - seemingly, any crime in which someone ends up dead, which makes great road safety headlines but is about as close to being legally accurate as any sentence containing the words "Tony Benn", "Margaret Thatcher" and "Secret Love Nest".

You also have a tendency to see arguments and claims where there are none. I've never made any comment on the sentencing guidelines for crimes against police officers. It is uncontentious and not worth arguing about. Criminals can, and often do, come off worse than otherwise in these situations, for the reasons Derek again explained earlier. Your continual wailing about what I supposedly believe on this subject is a pretty poor strawman designed to deflect attention from the shaky foundations of your own argument. Again, bad luck, I don't think anyone's falling for it.

My comments to you have been strictly limited to my request for you to provide the evidence on which you base the claim that someone convicted of the crime under discussion in this thread - the fatal shooting of someone in a public street - would be likely to spend only five years in jail *if* their victim had been Joe Public rather than PC Plum. No amount of huffing and puffing over the sentencing guidelines for crimes against the police is going to prove that point for you. You are going to have to find a media report of someone being convicted in Court of murdering someone in public, with a firearm, receiving the mandatory life sentence and then being handed a tariff of only five years.

Your employer blocks Google but lets you make repeated posts to internet bulletin boards? Bizarre. I guess I will just have to think myself lucky that I'll be spared your l33t Google skillz for a few more hours.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

It seems that Chris and Derek have proven me wrong. I was sure there was no possible way I could witness a greater perversion of my words than what I'd already seen before by said individuals, but I've been proven wrong. Unravelling this misconstrued, twisted cauldron of confusion - is going to take a little while.

I think you'll find that you read the bits that suit your case, but ignore the rest. For starters, although I do understand how the justice system works - it is still decided by the system to define a crime as murder or not.

You need to read my posts in context, I was presenting the previous instance as an example of how someone can get off lightly (presumably because the prisons are full), but yet had it been a police officer that was run over, the full sentence would have been given.

Instead, what you read was that "Sparkle displays ignorance of how the criminal justice system works", "Sparkle thinks running someone over with a vehicle is exactly the same as shooting someone in the face" and "Sparkle thinks that any activity that results in the death of an individual is the same."
You see, you are only seeing what you want to, but these are merely your misinterpretations of what I've written. But I'm sure you won't see that, because you won't want to.

Actually, Derek pretty much confirmed my point, not called me out on it.
You'll recall, my point being that there is one law for us when we assault each other, and another when we assault the police, for exactly the reasons which Derek stated. When he cited the 18 year sentence for a random shooting, that the 18 yrs is far less than 40 yrs, further corroborates my point.

I think you'll find it is you who is focusing on the strawman argument about whether a person who commits murder will be released within 5 years. My main focus has been the stiffer sentences that seem to be given if a crime is commited against the police. That was my first post, and the only reason I've been posting in this thread. If you don't disagree with that, then why are you wasting my time?

Again you distort the facts, I said "shot in face", not murder.

Twice I've reiterated in this thread that I was referring to "out in 5 years", which typically equates to 10 yr sentence.
I never said "murder as is determined by the system". Murder can be "killed in cold blood", and yet a light sentence served based upon a technicality.
10 years usually means out in 5 years for good behaviour. Your continual detraction from the points I've reiterated time and time again, simply demonstrates that you're clutching at straws, once yet again during our discussions.

Once again, you see only what you want to. My employer does not block Google, but with other people working in the office installing a new phone system, I'd rather not be surfin' - but I understand that you needed to twist my words in attempt to claw back some leverage in what is increasing looking like a lost cause on your part.

So now, just to summarise. You say that all you're doing is asking for corroboration for my first comment (that a person can shoot someone in the face and be out of prison within 5 yrs), but yet you upgrade this to "murder by shooting in the face", and then further upgrade to "random murder by shooting in the face".

So, to be fair (without the additional add-ons), all you really need to see is an example of someone shooting someone, and then out in 5 years, eh?

I personally don't see the difference that using a gun makes, since if Moat had used a knife rather than a gun, the sentences would've been the same.
However, finding examples involving firearms shouldn't be difficult.

Now, lets find some links for you.
---------------------------------------

Boy shoots and kills friend, 5 yrs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-5-years.html


Robbery, fatal stabbing, involving 4 men - armed with a knife and gun
Sentenced 6 yrs, 5 yrs, 35 weeks, and 35 weeks.
http://www.southnorwichnews.co.uk/ne...ch-went-wrong/

Revenge attack, 5 yrs (stabbed 7 times)
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven..._on_wifebeater

Random bus attack, 17 yr old sentenced to 4 years
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...k-1976095.html

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

That wasn't murder.


That's not 5 years.

That was just 5 years.

That wasn't murder.

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

none of those are murder

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------


It's not a case of "a policeman's life is worth more" it's a case of it being a more serious offence to attack a police officer .In all your ramblings throughout this thread trying to prove that someone sentenced for murder (mandatory life) will be out in 5 yrs you have missed that there are different degrees of murder.There is the premeditated and heat of the moment kind which will be reflected in sentencing i.e minimum years behind bars .
The 2 characters that this thread relates to are of the worse kind .Although neither one shot or killed anyone they helped someone,namely Moat,to kill and try to kill knowing full well what he was doing without showing any remorse whatsoever,they helped plan the whole affair knowing it would end in murder .If someone suddenly loses the plot and shoots a random stranger then yes it is murder but not in the same league as these 2 scroats

Re: Raol Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I truly fail to see why you are arguing over these 2 *******s being given lengthy sentences as they deserved the terms they received as without them the ******* moat would not have been able to carry out his heinous crimes.

It is a pity that hanging is not an option as I would pull the lever on **** like this without blinking.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Well, as moat got killed by the law in the first place (they won't admit to it -using non-legal weapons), moat dies. Now after all the money law spent on looking for him drumming up public fear & hate + distrust in the area.
They have to put some one/others in the dock to window dress the whole issue as to explain to whole mess the law made in the first place. If they didn't there would calls from the high rafters in all places for high level inquiry on what went wrong + the peoples in control, there for heads to roll into there quick retirement from the force forever. Little do the public know about what went one in the hunt/inquiry, if we did - the tables would have turned & the officers in charge would have to be charged with murder/ 1st man-slaughter /corruption/lack of duty etc.
The true facts will never get out, just the one the law wants you to believe.

But the law has had there pound of flesh they where looking for, from the remaining two men. The case for unfair trail for the above is leaking from the seams, but only after the law admits to there own murder of the main suspect & until then these two will do time while the law covers/papers up the real truth..... :mad: It's all about money that police haven't got, just think if moat's family sued the force for unlawful murder in the 1st degree -how much money would there be to have to keep it all quiet? A question that will never be answered, till time lets the true facts out.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

I personally would shake the hands of the policemen that shot him as he deserved it and as above I would pull the lever on his scaffold as well.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

oh good grief :rolleyes:

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Come on you cannot be that surprised now.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/12/10.gif

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

What planet do you live on?Moat and his friends cold bloodedly planned to murder two people and succeeded in one case.It was premeditated in nature and if Moat hadn't taken the cowards way out he would be facing the same sentence as these two..The fact that they didn't succeed in killing more wasn't for lack of trying and they are not the innocent hard done by victims of a conspiracy.

The only conspiracy there was was the one Moat and friends had to kill an entirely innocent human being.

Your sympathies are entirely misplaced.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

i think his avatar gives us a clue

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Bong!!!!!!!https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2011/06/21.gif

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

:clap:

Who needs a scaffold, There are plenty of trees

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Well, you have your point, but they still did use a non issued weapon (illegal) to sow the seed of death on moat behalf, yes he did have gun to his head but whatever he did before, is not a point to kill him with stun type weapon that make your muscles cramp...now who had his finger on the gun trigger point at his head ?.. yes moat :dozey:

It was a shot gun round >
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/d...-shell-emerge/

Read the text on it's workings, it should give you hint

He should have had a fair trial like anybody else, not a cold blooded murder. :erm: That way it would have made both side happy (for vs against) In his place the law has place the other two into front viewing shop window display, which looks like a biased/unfair trial hearing in the first place. See it as you wish, but it not going away any time soon, remember the Birmingham Six
Their trial original was found unsafe & released + compo, they where claimed to be IRA bombers.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Moat wasn't the victim of "cold blooded murder"... he perpetrated cold blooded murder, with help from his accomplices! :rolleyes:


None of this is anything like the Birmingham Six...

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

There are some complete, Out of touch Morons posting on this forum.!
Raoul Moat was a cold blooded Murderer. He died because he went out in his car and decided to kill INNOCENT people. He died by his own hands and actions. I just wish he`d died sooner so he hadn`t caused so much pain and suffering to INNOCENT people and their families! I hope he rots in Hell.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Looks like the use of substances is having a marked effect of some of the replies tonight :LOL:

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Isn`t it just! :erm: :td:

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

Well apart from the fact neither of the X-Rep rounds made full contact, the recordings made show Moat fired first and both post mortems show he died from a self inflicted injury you are 100% correct :dozey:
Oh and the X-Reps aren't illegal, they aren't home office approved but not illegal. If they were illegal do you not think a cop would have been charged with a crime seeing there is plentiful evidence of them using the weapons.

The authorities went out of their way to avoid killing Moat. In any other country in the world the second Moat was seen he would of ended up with an extremely fatal case of lead poisoning. Instead of a six hour standoff you would have a six second period where every cop within a mile emptied their guns into him.

Oh please. If you extracted your head from the sand or wherever else it's stuck you would realise the case against the two was absolutely overwhelming. One of them even wrote to his sister telling her he wasn't kindnapped and asking her to burn the letter once she had read it. Their guilt is beyond any doubt.

Re: Raoul Moat accomplice jailed for 40 yrs
 

:clap:

There are some real *******s in this world and those three are amongst them.