Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12741847

I think it is a storm in a tea cup situation myself..It's not an urban drama,and many English villages are barely multicultural in reality.
I'm also against tokenism in drama unless it's actually necessary to the plot and that an actor should get a part because he/she is a good actor not because of race.

What do you think?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Typical PC twaddle.
I'm sure most people would agree with the producers comments.

I've never really watched Midsomer Murders, but in my early youth I did watch "All Creatures Great and Small" and I don't think I'd have taken it too seriously if it were ethnically diverse, so to speak. Not due to intolerance, but because it would've been a load of PC bollox with little (if any) bearing on actual reality.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Thing I find amusing about this, is no-one gave too hoots over the 'lack' of ethnic minorities in the programme for the last 14 years

Then this person goes and puts his foot in his mouth and it's suddenly an 'outrage'

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Sleepy English villages are not known for their non-White faces, let's be honest about this. I find it telling that the only argument raised against the 'whiteness' of Midsomer is the level of ethnic minority representation in the population generally, which very neatly (and I suspect deliberately) misses the point ... Ethnic minorities are more represented in some locations than others. Tv drama should not be obliged to fulfil some sort of patronising quota at the expense of realism.

The show's producer appears to have been made an example of for saying the unsayable, rather than for making a racist TV show for the last 14 years (which is clearly not what he was doing anyway).

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Of course they are offensive and ridiculously absurd comments to make.

I think it's misleading to make this an issue of his program not having ethnically diverse characters, I don't think anyone has complained at their absence, but it's a curious policy to dismiss the suggestion altogether in the way he did. He suggested that the audience would have a problem with it: "I'm trying to make something that appeals to a certain audience, which seems to succeed. And I don't want to change it.".

The worst passage was were he inferred that the program was the last bastion of Englishness as a reason for not adding multi-ethnic characters. This clings in an old-fashioned and frankly racist view that being English means being white.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Nobody is saying that black people don't live in villages Damien. But the fact that far fewer of them do means that it is perfectly possible to make a show set in a village, not feature any non-White faces, and not be racist.

As usual, it seems the only problem here is that the hand-wringing set has found itself another Cause.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

No one is calling the show racist. The reaction has been to his comments where he referred to it as the 'last bastion of Englishness' and that the show wouldn't work with a black character.

It's hard to see why it wouldn't work nor why it would prevent it's 'Englishness'. I am guessing that he thinks his audience would not accept it given his comments about a 'certain audience'.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I think if it was putting say a black person in there just for the sake of it is wrong. it's like he said. maybe he isn't politically correct.

and if real villagers watch the show, then they are funny people anyway :)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

:rolleyes:

and why is that, please tell me what is so "offensive" about those comments.

they are the truth.

I live in a country village, and there is not one other black or brown face other than.....the stereotypical corner shop owner, who is Indian - I think.


You can draw what conclusions you wish, I can see the road you wish to go down.

On the other he might just have been referring to an audience that like the biscuit tin version of the sleepy quint essential english village life.

No it's not, again draw whatever twisted, chip on the shoulder, view you want.

Last time I drove through the villages of Oxfordshire, Berkshire and Hampshire I didn't see to many mosques.

---------- Post added at 15:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:36 ----------

If you want to find "racism", look hard enough and I'm sue you'll find it every where and every time you try.

Knock yourself out.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I already did:

Well I need to see the entire transcript but the articles allege that he is feels it is inappropriate for there to be multi-ethnic characters in the show because it's the 'last bastion of Englishness' as well as it's not common to see multi-ethnic village communities.

While I don't have an issue with the argument that such villages are not common I do have an issue that those villages would somehow not be English. That it would somehow undermine his perception of the show as 'last bastion of Englishness'.

Unless he was misquoted I can't see how you can draw any other conclusion that he meant anything else.

As for the 'chip on my shoulder' I think that is unfair. I am simply expressing a view you disagree with. Would rather you debate that view and the points I raise instead of raising assertions about me which, I believe, are untrue. Your post comes across a lot more aggressive than mine did after all.

Not everyone who isn't white is a Muslim. Muslims in villages would be much less common than, say, Black Britons.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

You're drawing that conclusion for yourself, you have no idea what he really meant.

He may be referring to, as mentioned earlier, the picture postcard/biscuit tin version of an English village. Cricket on the village green, tea and sandwiches.

To much of the world that is the image conjured up when you mention English village, all he is doing is manufacturing that last bastion of Englishness.

Well I've just drawn another conclusion from it.

I say that because you are starting your assumptions from the position of he's racist because of either your background or beliefs, I don't think you are starting from an objective position
I don't know the percentages but as I recall ethnic minorities are still very much the minority in this country.

Given that most minoritieslive in cities, and in some areas they are actually the majority, I can safely assume that as you move out of the city and into the villages the minority is extremely minor - to non-existent.

I live in West Yorkshire nr Halifax. Halifax has a very large ethnic community, as soon as you come out of town where those communities are, and it into the surrounding villages, you don't see hardly any black or brown faces.

Just a fact, nothing else.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I actually think Damien is correct ,the setting may be in a English village but it isn't set 40-50 yrs ago like Heartbeat or The Darling Buds of May ,it is set in a modern English village so including some well off Black Britains would be realistic imo .i don't think Brian True-May was being deliberately racist just naive and out of touch with reality,and catering for the whims of a certain demographic of society who wouldn't accept ethnic actors being cast in the program says a lot about him and the group he is catering to

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

I think you're making the mistake of comparing the show to reality ,it is fiction ,so in that vein some fictional black characters living in a English village will be just as realistic as the 225 murders that have happened there ;)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Well of course I don't. No one does. Since we're discussing what he actually said then that is my impression of what he meant given the content of what he said. I never truly know what someone is thinking, I have to judge by their words and actions.

But adding a black character doesn't detract from it's Englishness, which is what he implies. I am suggesting that such a statement, presuming he wasn't misquoted, is racist. Why? Because it would mean that they are somehow less British.

You have no idea about my background or beliefs. That said all of us are influenced by our beliefs, including you, and as such none of us are truly 'objective'. However that doesn't mean we have a chip on our shoulder or that our views are less valid.

They live in cities for a multiple of reasons. Wealth, Recent Immigration, to be near to existing communities. However there are plenty of Black British Britions who are wealthy and have never immigrated to this country. They would be in the same social-economic group as those White people who live in villages.


And I am not disputing that it is a fact white people make up the majority of the rural population. I am disputing the idea that other ethnicities would detract from the Englishness of a village.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

To fully quote the producer, from the OP link....

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Reading that quote i think that True May is talking about, for example,black gangs roaming the lanes commiting murder for drugs ,that would be ridiculous ,but why not a black barister doing his wife in for the insurance money or a muslim killing his brother so he can take control of the chain of 45 corner shops ...could happen ;)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I wonder normally agree, but sleepy English villages are also not know for high murder rates either.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

This thread topic reminds me of that episode of Father Ted, when Father Ted gets branded a racist - I'd laugh if it weren't so serious.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I know ,
people it's not real ,it's pretend ....corry on the other hand ..steriotypical asian with corner shop scruffy angry english man with a back street garage and as for eastenders where does one start :D

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Or a makeshift mosque where they go and discuss taking over the world :rolleyes: :)

I think to just leave it as it is. there's nothing wrong with not being politically correct. infact it's a bonus to not be.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

does depend very much on the reasons for being non pc ,if it's just for the sake of common sense ok fine ,but if they are racialy motivated then not so fine

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

It's not about political correctness. It's quite simple:

There is no reason why there should be a ethnic minority character in Midsomer Murders. Yet there is no reason why there can't be.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

quite right :clap::clap:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

But putting them in now would be false. we could accuse him of when he first started the show. he went out of his way to not include a non white because he's a racist.

he's not. it just went that way because it probably never crossed his mind about being PC and including them. and from choosing to cast them on purpose is no better than not in the first place. imho.

it's like literature with the council. they sometimes go out of their way to include on the front page an asian. and anything on the inside, a disabled person in a traditional wheelchair.

it's annoying in the way that these people are specially asked in what I imagine a "hello, you're different. can we take a picture of you so we can put you in our literature?"

how do they feel I wonder?

anyone read any good text story books lately?
(I don't mean the ones where they emphasise how big John is)
do they emphasise John being black. or is John just John?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

i've got 54 midsomer murder dvd's
a politically incorrect gold mine- be worth a fortune one day ;)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Sorry, but the race relations industry disagrees with you on that. This afternoon Judy Ling Wong, the UK Director of Black Environment Network, has told the BBC:

(emphasis by me)

That's the bit that really gets my goat. To Wong, TV drama can't just be TV drama, but it should be using the 'power' it has over the audience to shape national identity. TV entertainment programmes are not there to do social engineering IMO, but it is clear that in her view, there should be a token ethnic minority presence in the fictional village of Midsomer, no matter how unrepresentative of a real Oxfordshire village that might make it, for the greater good of getting the crusty old rural racists that make up its audience more used to seeing black faces around the place.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

instead of using white actors or ethnic actors ,why don't they just use actors :shrug:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Thespians .

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I am not saying they should have a 'token ethnic minority'. No one is. I am saying that there is no reason why there cannot be a ethnic minority character in future. One who is there on merit.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

if it aint broke don't fix it- i have 54 episodes and they were just fine imo.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

This is what really annoys me, why the need for race relations "spokesperson(s)" to comment on these issues as if we need their advice?

These are issues which affect everyone, and everyone should have a say. It is absolutely not for Wong to dictate what television is there for !
What she has said is dangerous in that it could be extended far beyond television (radio, comedy, school curriculum, etc).
There will always be the Wongs in our society ready to dictate PC ethics to the rest of us, but two Wongs don't make a right.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I've never watched the thing really. do they have taxis in it?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

:redcard:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

If we had a bit more of live and let live in this world, it would be a far better place. This just seems to be some mischievous stirring up of a non existent problem.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

hear's a list of the towns and villages give em a bell :)

Aspern Tallow
Badger's Drift
Bow Clayton
Broughton
Burwood Mantle
Calham Cross
Causton / Causton Town
Devington
Draycott
Dunstan
Elverton-***-Latterley
Ferne Basset
Finchmere
Fletcher's Cross
Ford Florey
Goodman's Land
Great Pelfe
Haddington
Little Upton
Little Worthy
Lower Warden
Luxton Deeping
Malham Bridge
Malham Cross
March Magna
Marsh Wood
Martyr Warren
Midsomer Barton
Midsomer Chettham
Midsomer Deverell
Midsomer Florey
Midsomer Holm
Midsomer Magna
Midsomer Malham
Midsomer Mallow
Midsomer Market
Midsomer Mere
Midsomer Morchard
Midsomer Morton
Midsomer Newton
Midsomer Parva
Midsomer Priors
Midsomer Sonning
Midsomer St. Michael
Midsomer Wellow
Midsomer Worthy
Milton Cross
Monks Barton
Morton Fendle
Morton Shallows
Newton Magna
Upper Warden

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Yes, they are. Did you read the quote I posted? Judy Ling Wong believes it is more important for TV drama to mould society than it is to accurately portray whatever the situation happens to be. Tokenism is inevitably what would occur were that actually to be applied to a show like Midsomer.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Tell me you didn't type each one out, but did copy and paste instead :)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

While I can see the point (television *can* be a powerful weapon in fighting things like racism), it also worth noting that most drama (Midsommer Murders included) is supposed to be at least vaguely realistic. It's set in a small village. Right or wrong, anyone in such a small village is unlikely to ever see anyone who is a different colour.

Having said that, most small villages don't have someone being murdered every week.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

after visiting each and every one to check on the ethnicity quotia :D ....and to see who had been murdered :D

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Well ok. Some people are. That is obviously stupid. It is of course counter to what I have been saying in this thread that Midsomer Murders have no reason to have a ethnic minority cast member and I agree that to do so as a result of this uproar would be tokenism.

However that doesn't mean the producer was right, there is no reason why Midsomer Murders cannot have a black character which is what he was suggesting. It wouldn't detract from the 'Englishness' of the show. It may not be common for a black person to live in a small village but it's certainly not 'unrealistic'.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Neither they do, but without stretching reality a little in that direction there wouldn't be a series.

A high murder rate is necessary to the plot. An unrealistic ethnic mix is not.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

I'm not so sure. Despite its modern setting, Midsomer Murders is in many ways a pastiche on Agatha Christie, or rather Agatha Christie's England. That England was a very white place indeed.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

That was my problem with what he said. He was linking the concept of being English, or at least Englishness, with being white. That the addition of a black character would undermine that vision of being English. Since it's not a period drama I think that is false.

That doesn't mean they need to cast a black person to represent a modern Britain though. However the way he ruled it out entirely, and the reason for doing so, struck me as out of line.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

How does one get on there by 'merit'

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

How long have you been saving that one? :D

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

By being a good actor?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Not that Wong.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I don't think he did rule it out entirely, did he.

Anyway for a black character to 'fit in' to this series it would have to be that bloke who was in rising damp wouldn't it? With the fantastic British accent.

Not Ali G.

Would that be representative enough for the thought police?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

The producer's comment from the OP's BBC link Fairly unequivocal.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Nope, but I expect the usual suspects will be "outraged" by a non event.

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

Breaking News - next months murder victim is a Gay Black guy - that should keep everyone happy. :erm:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Now that would be funny :)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Not really. He says he doesn't particularly want the current format to change. He didn't say that he wouldn't change his mind ever.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

But he also didn't say that he may change his mind in the future - only he knows, and we can only surmise.....;)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I think they should be concerned with the amount of "deaths" in his village, higher than some cities.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

They just to act like the other characters.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Did he just move into the village?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I thought somebody would say, they where the baddie

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Just to add my two penneth to the debate, I think what the producer has said concerning non-whites in parts of the countryside is fair comment in a lot of rural England and that adding a token black face "just for the sake of it" is ridiculous.
Where I do part company with this guy is his statement of the program being the "last bastion of Englishness", I cannot see how this can be interpreted as anything other than derogatory, the guy may have some valid points but he certainly needs a lot of help in expressing himself correctly.

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Thats crazy!
A standard old Village does not contain multi-cultural races in
its just based on real life really, does this mean there not going to be showing the series again I will miss my 4 o 'clock dosage of it lol! :D

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Mountains, mole hills, storms and egg cups come to mind.................can't take any of this seriously. Must be something to do with nothing on the telly tonight, roll on next episode of MM.

Who would want to condemn anyone, irrespective of race, to live in this high risk area? :erm:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

An update.
Midsomer producer to 'step down' after current series

So standby for Mr Patel running the local convenience shop..

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

LOL
Why can't Mr Patel just move into an house in the village. even better he can be the new doctor!

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

so are we sacking the old doctor or closing the old shop in favour of this politically correct nonsense ;)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I think the doctor he's replacing resigned because of the PC nonsense anyway.
Hopefully Mr Patel doesn't get murdered before he's had time to unpack :)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

rumour has it he is seen looking at plans for a super mosque in midsomer Morchard and later is found dead in the font of the local Church police say they are not treating the incident as suspicious .:erm:
later that day the vicar is found face down in an open grave with a dagger in his back ,his corps is clutching the mortgage deeds to the church ,the police say it was an accident and is not being treated as suspicious ,at the same time the out going doctor has gone missing .

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I'd say he died of natural causes. that was a short visit. or is the family staying on?

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

Are you two going to apply for the position of producer for this show then? ;)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

i'm happy just ghost writing it :)

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

I watched this last night, but I kept losing the plot because I was always scanning the extras in the background for non-white faces. :spin:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

LOL.




:angel:

Re: Midsomer Murders producer suspended over race row
 

DCI smurf has uncovered the truth -

Midsomer Murders pulls in the viewers despite race row (and yes, it DID once cast a mixed race actress)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...#ixzz1HbARnLZn