This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

This countries unemployment is very high due to major companies employing foriegn workers.

The Sun/ page 23/ Tesco

It has been reported that Tesco are going to employ staff from Slovakia, as they cannot find workers in this country, l cannot believe a word of it, maybe if you read between the lines on WHY, they cannot employ anyone from the UK, could be the salary, I live near TWO Tesco's and the staff that speak too are dishearten by the hours, the pay.

My son used to work for Tesco, and his take home pay for the month, and that included working early shifts and weekends, was £750.00 per month.

Tesco is a major retailer, but they must pay decent wages to even bring in new staff, from the UK, instead of using cheap labour from oversea.

Everywhere, you go in this country there is foriegn Labour, its about time that companies employed British workers, instead of going abroad.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

They employ foreigners because we have reared a generation of chavs who think work is beneath them and who have come to expect that the government will look after them whether they work or not.

That is what happens when you vote based on your desire to be "looked after" Arthur. A society full of people that neither want, nor know how to, look after themselves. They won't work, in many cases don't know how to. Result? Tesco has to go to countries that still have a work ethic in order to find staff.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Arthur, how are they using cheap foreign labour when they pay all staff the same regardless of where they come from?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

What's wrong with this country?

Whingers, and people who think the world owes them a living.

Link to the story.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Says it all, really.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

And if Slovakians, Poles or anyone else WILL work nights, they'll get the jobs. I blame the "Jeremy Kyle generation". Happy to live off benefits and expecting a high paying job to fall in their laps, preferably one with only a few hours a week.

Some people out there are bending over backwards to find work, some have relationships suffering because they can't find work. It makes me sick when jobs are there but people won't apply for them.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Surely though Russ, If you`re that desperate for a job then you`ll work anywhere for a half decent wage rather than be on benefits if you`ve got any pride in yourself. I would. ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

That's exactly the problem Bud. You would. I would. An awful lot of people won't.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I accept that some people aren't able to relocate for certain reasons - maybe they have people to look after etc

But no applications for night shift work? Terrible. Again I can understand some single parents not being able to go for it but no applications?!

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

well yes you would if you have pride in yourself,trouble is that too many of the chav generation don't have pride in themselves ,they get enough money of the government to survive +their bit of fiddle/thieving conning or however they get the extra money so why bother demeaning yourself by working.

One of the problems is that they see the government as robbers ,thieving their wages for tax ,they just don't understand the concept so they fiddle on the black market or find other sources of tax free income to pay for the luxuries normal people have to work for

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

What's wrong with this country is that there a far too many people who believe they're entitled and have rights but don't need to contribute or exercise responsibilities in return.

That's not a problem unique to the UK - I've come across many Slovaks who're just the same by the way. The only difference is that their state doesn't look after them quite so well as ours looks after us but they exist nonetheless.

We really need to get away from the idea that everyone who comes here is hardworking, honest and diligent but at the same time we really need to accept that there is a sizeable proportion of the indigenous population who've been 'brought up' in defective 'families' and quite like sitting on their bums getting looked after by the rest of us.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I see Art has done his usual trick, thrown a verbal hand grenade at the forum and then run away before anyone has had a chance to challenge his somewhat simplistic Tabloid worldview ...

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I gave up expecting Arthur to contribute ages ago ,it will all be the tories fault anyway

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I remember working for a supermarket, about 12 years ago. Earning a majestic 4.27 per hour with no uplift for the evenings I had to work.

Prior to that I worked in a warehouse freezer.

Then off to a call centre for a whole 4.75.

Then into IT. 12 years, and some ridiculously long hours later I make enough to be thoroughly irate at the amount of tax I pay.

It was good enough for me, and I am now doing well, what makes these people so special that they're too good for those wages?

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

:tu:

Exactly.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

yep i started out with nothing still got most of it left ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Same crap, Different day mate... As always with Arthur.;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I don't run away from anything, Supermarket is the worst job in the employment trade, when l left school, l worked for Homefare, International supermarkets, before going into a better paid job.

When you get a job you get it for what is on offer, pay, hours etc, I worked nights for twelve years, YOU get a job for the money to live on. I have also done price work.

The unemployed WANT to work, but not for a pittance of a wage, and this isn't an Arth rant, this is a fact.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

So are you saying the minimum wage isn't sufficient, Arthur?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Arthur, ALDI in Cambridge pay £8.00 PER HOUR thats got to be better than minimum wage mate?
If i was unemployed, i`d work for that wage.!"

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Just for the record:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ay/DG_10027201

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Sorry Arthur, but this isn't true, some do and some don't. There's a lot of jobless people out there who just don't want to work for the minimum wage believing for some reason that they're worth more. Then there's a lot that don't want to work at all.

Round here, as a result of children being born into workless households for at least the last two generations, relying on benefits has become a way of life. It's not the amount of money a job would pay that will change this attitude, as it's the thought of having to do a job that is objected to.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

about time we got government fine companies excessive profiteering.

Also stop helping companies get away with rubbish wage structure by forcing government to give tax credits.

I think there needs to be whip given out to private sector to sort this sorry mess out.

Better wages and job creation.

Make companies prove they cant pay bigger wages if they are deemed they cant then staff wages are given tax credit.

We should not help these rich companies get away with garbage wages forcing tax credit top ups.

I would also ban the 12 hour working practise this done massive damage to amount of jobs available out there.

I had brother in law work in chemical company 600+ workers then after 12 hour shift introduced less than 200.

About time we had government with bottle to take industry on.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

If TESCO staff were paid 10% more, TESCO goods would cost 10% more. So fewer people would shop at TESCO.

Eventually, TESCO might go out of business. How would that help the workers?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

whats wrong with companies earning money ? a fair wage is all a worker is entitled to ,he/she is not entitled to wages way beyond their skill level just so they can afford nice cars and big tellys, otherwise you wouldn't have any incentive to better yourself

As for your brother inlaw i would imagine that his 12 hr shift wouldn't be for 5 days a week ,it would also enable the company to cut overheads and stay competetive ,if they didn't the company could go out of buisness and then no-one's got a job

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

TheNorm It would not if they brought to task on profiteering.

If they cant afford proper wage then tax credit is the safety for that business.

The problem with it at the moment is the government topping up way too many wages while these companies just make obscene profits.

It has to stop greed is big issue why we in mess.

They want too much profits to pay idle rich but want the country bail them out for pay rubbish wages.

The alternative is to devalue the country so house prices/goods/food is less expensive. Make it so lower wages supports a standard of living.

We spiralling out of control something goto change either in mentality and actions.

I read the top rich in the world are better off. Seems the billionaires did not get effected by credit crunch.

Yet these people who own these rich companies telling bottom feeders to take less pay. However all whats going to happen is it forces government pay more tax credit relief to workers who struggling to live.

Something goto to change.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I did a similar sort of thing.

Prior to doing my degree, I had some crap jobs. My first barely paid enough to cover my travel costs and expenses involved at work (eating at lunch etc). Thankfully, I was still living at home so did not not need to worry about other expenses. Having almost no money for a social life was a bummer though.

I stuck with the job because I thought it important to get experience, even though it was a crap job in a company who I thought (frankly) were a bunch of people the word I would use to describe is a little to impolite for family use.

After that, i had a succession of jobs that while they were not as badly paid, they were still too badly paid for the amount of responsibility required.

Then I did my degree. While I was doing that , I have to admit, I think I strike lucky with jobs. For the first few months, I was a shelf stacker in Sainsburys. It was a crap job, and paid miniumum wage, for which I had to work 4 hours a night from 8pm weekends. It was physically demanding (due to the amount of stock we had to put on the shelves) and boring. The manager also actively discouraged any banter, or communication between the workers of any kind.

The other job I had was the one I kept for most of my degree. Renting out videos at Blockbuster. The job itself was hard, badly paid (minimum wage again) and sometimes involved both long shifts and late nights. Stock taking was done once a month and couldn't be done while the shop was open (the in store computer system would not process anything else while a stocktake was going on). But, we did have a good excuse to watch all the latest films (the company didn't like it, but customers expected us to know all about the latest films, so we had to see them) and I did make a few friends there.

My current job is paid quite well (although I could earn a lot more if I wasn't happy to stick with it), frequently inolves late nights and unpaid overtime. But, I feel all the hard work is worth it.

My has been lost a little in all that rambling, so I'll explain it more clearly.

If I had looked at any of my jobs and decided to go on benefits rather than work for a pittance that barely covered my expenses in working, I could well still be on benefits, and earning a lot less than I do now.

Arthur, there is one reason that people born in the UK don't get these jobs. They aren't applying for them.

Despite appearances to the contrary, I actually don't agree with a lot of what the coalition say, but I do agree with one thing. There is a whole benefits culture in the UK where entire families have been claiming benefits for several generations. This needs to stop.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Arthur STFU! You talk twaddle, your ring must be sore with all the effluent that emanates from it.

Nothing that you have said of late is worth commenting on (but I have to here at least)

I dont even think you think before you write something.

Get a life, because if you dont you'll end up having a heart attack with all the stress you seem to bring upon yourself.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Arthur, it is not a fact, it's an opinion, and one that assumes everyone feels essentially the same as you do.

Plenty of unemployed people want to work. However the PROOF from the story you referred to is that plenty more do not. Otherwise, where were the queues of local people applying for the job?

The FACT is, Tesco or whoever will not go to the hassle of recruiting abroad if there are people locally because it is easier and cheaper to recruit locally - no language or training issues, cheaper job advertising - but they will go abroad if they HAVE TO. The FACT is, in this case, they had to.

Ask yourself why they had no choice but to recruit from overseas Arthur. Where were all these willing unemployed Brits you speak of?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Indeed, it costs a *lot* more to recruit people from other countries. The likes of Tesco will be willing to pay a lot of money to employ people with good qualifications in high up jobs (executives etc), and, indeed, probably do. They won't be willing to do the same for any of the in store staff, who, with due respect, will not be that highly qualified. Why would they, when there are thousands of people local to each store who are equally qualified to do those jobs?

Your last sentance is just logic. Why would any company pay a lot of money to recruit anyone when they can get someone equally qualified for the job just by sticking an ad in the local paper?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Calm down alferret... You might have a heart attack! :D

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Why can't these companies like tescos ,or indeed any company that has a need for large numbers of unskilled workers work a lot closer with the local job centers .when a situation such as with tescos in the OP and they want for example 50 workers to stack shelves or work in a warehouse just take them from the local unemployed .The job center would get in touch with the first 50 long term unemployed and tell them to report for work at the companies convenience or the benefits stop immediately

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

They do advertise these jobs at the local job centre if they can.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I would rather employ someone from Slovakia than someone whos mentality revolves around the utter garbage written in the S*n and the daily Nazi.

over and out.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I sometimes wonder Arthur how you manage to live in such a mixed area as Hounslow, a rather, err, multicultural borough of the largest city in Europe, and hold views more often seen in small towns.

Reminds me of the last time I was dragged into a discussion with my grand mother, her confidently assuring me Polish claim all their taxes back when they go back home and stubbornly and vehemently refusing to accept that they claim some taxes back because they haven't completed the full tax year so were overtaxed as PAYE assumes this and anyone on PAYE that leaves the UK part way through a tax year does the same.

She has, however, spent all her life living in semi-rural Warwickshire where the only non-white faces are behind corner shop counters.

Go figure.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

OK I'm going to make an observation about Arthur's posts.

No one is forced to read them.

No one needs to believe them.

No one needs to reply to them.

So ergo why does so many of the usual relatively sane suspects actually do all of the above?

I actually try very hard not get involved in Arthur's world except to moderate.If I wasn't a mod I would be doing the same.

Why can't the usual suspects stop playing Arthur's game? :shrug:

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Because they're just as crazy as he is? :D

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Arthur

Wake up and smell the coffee

There are plenty who would sooner sit on there arses day in day out doing sweet fa because they know they can get the dole, free housing and any other benefit they can con the benefits agency. Meanwhile they are doing cash in hand jobs to increase that greed even more.

Meanwhile the rest of us who are willing to work pay for there bone idleness :mad:



---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

Because we are allowed to answer his posts until such time as we are TOLD not to ???. If Arthur wants to spout crap on here someone has to show him why his posts are crap.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

To be fair, Gary, when it comes to crazy, we use you and Arthur as baselines.;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

:tu:

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Because silence/lack of reply would imply (imho) acceptance/acceptability of the whinging carp he posts, which then encourages those of a similar bent to carry on regardless.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Well said Sir :tu:

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

This comes back to the usual thing of which is worse, those who comment or those who comment on the commenters.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

Being entirely logical people of a similar bent would carry on regardless of how much evidence were put in front of them. Irrefutable evidence could be inserted into every bodily orifice and would still be completely disbelieved. Ignorance of the facts and transposition of opinion into them is how such a bent is arrived at in the first place.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I have a member of staff who is leaving at the end of the month after working here for 20 years.

She is leaving so her husband can claim means tested benefits.:(

" We've never claimed a penny from the state, now it's time to get something back"

You could cry....

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I think Hugh's point is not to change the opinion of the the OP, but to inform (and reassure) those who view the thread that other views exist.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I joined this forum, As you are allowed to use free speech and air youir views, I have been on this planet for 59 years, Long before some of you were out of nappies.

I have been through the hard times, l left school at 15 and was told by my parents, go and get a job, which l did and have only been unemployed three times and l was sick of it, l have worked in all sorts of jobs, BUT then you end up getting up getting married and starting a family, YOU have to find work that will support you and your family, You quite often work in a supermarket to supplement your wages, as you cannot earn enough.

I am not lazy, but it gets my goat when people say l rant, l rant as l have been there, and got the tee shirt, nowadays the Jobcentres have to be changed so that the companies that have to pay a decent rate of pay,.

And for comments like STFU, is very typical of the people that haven't seen life.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

So what.The world will not end and the sky won't fall in and the fact that no one of any rationality can be ars...bothered to reply will speak volumes. ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Yep. it's all about opinions and points of view. it's called debating.

the only downside is, some with a different opinion or point of view resort to name calling and insults. which is really annoying to see.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Attributed to Edmund Burke.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

at what point did Arthur's posts become evil ?

what's needed here imo is a chill pill - chill-axe people its not the end of the world it just our Arthur :)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

:nutter: Nutter ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Absolutely - it's not the end of the world, just that Arthur thinks it is.....:D

---------- Post added at 11:46 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

You may think that - I couldn't possible comment.:D

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I think he reminisces over a time when the world was a much larger place and the UK a wealthier nation - even if it was following generations' 'inheritance' that was being spent.

That and wanting a rather more 'controlled' economy. Very sterotypical actually, in common with most wanting a more socialist and controlled economy as he will be a beneficiary.

Anyway on that note back to work :(

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Nice dig must remember that one ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I know they do ,but that isn't what i meant .I mean since the jobs on offer weren't applied for why can't the job center phone up the first 50 long term unemployed and tell them that the job is theirs like it or not, no choice about it .After all in theory 50 vacancies in an area with 3000 long term unemployed (example figures to illustrate my point) should be taken almost immediately .

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Oh I have seen plenty of life Arfur. I would put money on it I have had a harder life, seen more, done more than you!
But I just get on with it rather than bang on about crap like you do. It wouldnt be so bad if there was some consistency to your ramblings. (aside from blaming everything on the Tories like you seem to do)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I have to wonder: Assuming they were working eight hour shifts before, how busy were they that the a third of the workforce were able to do the same work in shifts that were just half as long again?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

yes four shifts at 8 hours. With 3 on 1 shift off.

In the end lot of the workers became ill through over working my brother in law too simply you cant expect 12 hour shifts in punishing job.

The company had more errors too as tiredness crept in due to the shift changes.

My brother in law said he was effectively doing three man jobs for little more pay. All because profits was put before safety.

I would not be suprised this happened throughout the country as firms moved to a system which is dangerous.

Infact they still expected them to work overtime if your relief failed to turn up they expected them to stay at least 6 hours he did over the years 18 hour shifts. With the plant a 24 hour 365 day operation shutting down cost ing millions the shift system and staff cuts was too much. The union was toothless to help them.

The expected to drive home afterward with company not providing transport home or work the next shift. The company for chemical plant was disgusting how it operated.

There was a case in lincoln where an acident happened due to 12 hour shifts where the person fell asleep at the wheel. Killed someone its ludicous issue.

So there is a safety aspect why 12 hours practices should be banned.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I am surprised that, if the practices are dangerous, H&S aren't all over them (as they apparently are if you try to use a ladder to put a sign up anywhere).

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

What company was it mertle?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I now work 25 hours per week for health reasons after being off ill for 7 weeks last year because I want to work and do not want to be a claimant in the system, my hours suit my needs and I feel a lot better with regards to my health and outlook on life.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

All done, have earned my excessive salary today. Time to drink! :beer:

EDIT: Oh here's a thought while I'm feeling provocative, I am going to start contracting next year, and have arranged financial advice to minimise my tax bill. Given this government and the last one couldn't care less about doing so I'll have to do it myself :)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

The trouble I have is when I've applied for minimum wage jobs, I don't get them because I have spent my own cash learning to improve myself. They won't employ me because as soon as a higher wage comes along I'll be gone.

So I've gone from a £23,000 a year job to £5,500 on JSA, and I've written to a load of companies and non of them have bothered to even tell be to sod off.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Is that the same industry that pays tax on its profits? .......and the same industry that employs people so they can earn money and pay tax on that money?.......Just checking........'cos it sounds to me like you want that 'industry' to make less profit, pay less tax and employ fewer people who would then generate less tax revenue for the country.......:dozey:
.......and before you start on how 'industry' minimizes it's tax with loopholes, thats the fault of the govt and it's complicated exploitable tax rules. Not the fault of the private sector........I minimize my tax and so does anyone who doesn't actually like paying a shedload of tax.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Me next year.

As a thought, where do people who want corporations taxed stupid think their income is from?

You think their shareholders will happily take the lower returns on their investments? They'll expect the companies to put their prices up in order to maintain margins, which in turn leads to inflation and higher prices. This would be inflation basically as nothing more than a tool to fill government coffers. That it reduces their debt is merely a bonus.

Incidentally inflation is theft from people investing in their own retirements like myself and savers generally. Promotes debt by governments and individuals and we've seen how well that goes.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Indeed. Thats why I consider the term 'socialist economist' to be an oxymoron.......

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

That's exactly the situation I'm in as well. Because I normally work in IT I can't even get an interview with Morrisons as I'm "overqualified".

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I think that's the trouble. you're either under qualified or over qualified. not many are actually qualified.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Not to mention that a good part of those that are actually qualified consider themselves over qualified and the job unworthy.

It's what happens when you have a welfare state working on the premise of winning votes and redistributing money from the better off to the poor and from the employed to the unemployed rather than encouraging them back to work or incentivising them to improve their lot in life.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

True. I think there's various factors people use when jobs come up. like is it worth them working and paying their own rent. or is it better not working and having the rent paid for them?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Exactly Gary. In some cases it's clear cut, hence the need for the welfare overhaul.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I think that the situation regarding these jobs is simply being used as argument point to display an apparent workshy attitude amongst UK workers but without regard to facts. Fairly typical for this forum.

The article carrying the story was in the Daily Mail and stipulated that the jobs in question where 238 in number and all in London locations. It implied that they were managerial in nature but due to lazy reporting did not stipulate salaries beyond the broad spectrum of salaries paid to managers.

I think that for a newbie manager the lowest level can be safely assumed and that was stated at £26K p.a. London is just about the most expensive part of the UK to live, work or get to and £26K is an uneconomic salary to work in London.

I live 30 miles from London (within the commuter belt) and an annual season ticket (rail) is £4K p.a. which given a 1.5 hour (each way) commute plus the need for £4K net I would have wanted well in excess of £10K p.a. to even contemplate the stress of the extra pressure. It takes some incentive to get up at 06.00 and return home at 20.00 and national average wage isn't going to do it for me or I guess many others.

Living costs within easier striking distance of London are prohibitively expensive as Ignitionnet can attest but even if he over pays a more realistic but bottom end cost is that incurred by my niece who in her 7th year of a Phd course has regularly had to find (from the bank of parents) £12K p.a. to student share multiple occupied accommodation.

The reason why those jobs are unfilled is that they are not offered with regard to the economic costs for the area involved and that defies free market logic. Market logic dictates that for demand to meet supply price must attract supply and it this case it does not.

The question that arises from this situation is if locals find what is on offer uneconomic how is it that Slovakians will find it economic. The fact that they can live on paper round money in their home country has nothing to do with it as they can hardly commute so where does the extra cash come from that makes it viable for them but not for locals.

If there are loopholes that assist incoming migrant workers with cash payments it is a reasonable argument that companies are using such public money in an exploitative manner to the detriment of incumbents and getting around market forces.

If the maths do not work for locals they will not work for anybody providing there are no other factors in the equation. The story was printed to show a work shy Britain and without doubt appalled the chattering classes. It is the "why spoil a good story with facts" element where the truth lies and it may not be palatable.

When I owned businesses and directorships I had to pay market rates or above to secure the staff I wanted. If I advertised below the going rate, for the area I might just as well have put the advertising cost in a charity box. Market forces dictated where the bar was and I had to pitch above or end up with permanently unfilled positions.

It is imperative that regional differences in costs are factored into any thought process regarding pay. Inner and Outer London pay supplements are not given away out of largesse by companies and barely cover costs.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

The trouble now is that were a couple of years ago a job salary was £22,000 a company looking for staff can now advertise it for £12,000.

In most cases with the rising costs of fuel, and public transport people living out side the job area cannot afford to live if they got that job.

I myself looked at a job that paid minimum wage against my out goings and it worked out that I would pay roughly £60 a month to work there.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

If you go to a jobcentre, looking for a job, 9/10 it will be an agency (who make the money) advertising the job, A JC will nornmally advertise a job for 13.000 or 14.000 per year.

Who ever goes for that job, has to look at, hours, commuting, and what happenes after tax, to get tax credits, you have to be in the job for six weeks, to try and get help with travelling, is a no no, l have tried it.

Companies are moving out of the country due to costs in the UK, Companies are advertising for jobs as it will be mostly foriegn people will apply for it.

My whole point is that, You have to go for a job that pays the money. Over the years, l have worked for some right b's, and this is what is wrong, IF employers can get away with employing cheap labour, they will.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

So what exactly would having them increase those costs by paying higher salaries accomplish Arthur?

Your post makes no sense, on the one hand you comment on how high costs of business are in the UK and on the other you want to increase the largest cost to most companies, staff.

Seems to me that salaries aren't the issue but cost of living, and doing business, is.

Now one really good way to help with both of those is public sector cuts and a commensurate reduction in people's tax bills along with promoting social and health insurance rather than out and out welfare. In short extensive welfare reform to a more contribution based social security and NHS reform to more single payer insurance based schemes along with perhaps dumping the state pension as a PAYG and replacing it with a contributions based scheme which pays out to the contributer rather than funding the pension of current retirees and relying on future tax payers to pay your own.

There's a thought. People and governments looking after themselves and paying their own bills transparently and directly including insuring their health and employment through the state. That should reduce everyone's tax bill mightily and give people more choice along with sharing the burdens more evenly.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I think what the problem is, EVERYTHING is going up, but wages have been frozen, so we are being hit both ways, IF a major companies moves out of the UK, then everyone suffers, the distributors cannot pay decent money to employees.

It is OK for the government to cut all these cuts, but then they don't think of what is going to happen at the bottom end of the scale, they states that everyone must make adjustments, but how can they, when they hands are tied.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

There lies the major issue while london and the belt inflate the issue and we have government who thinks all jobs should be in the belt of london then the situation wont get better.

How can we prevent expensive britain strangling the country.

I think we could consider devalue method as option other ways is to possibly Capping land/property prices so they dont get out of control. Would argue london and the belts already way too dear and likely already out of control.

The impact is wages have to reflect the region...

Something got to be done yes there is some workshy but there infernate more issues which needs addressing. Make britian a place companies want to invest.

ps wayfair wont name the company its not the wisest thing for my brother in law.

Hugh sadly H&S did bugger all despite complaints.

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Well said.

People need to wake up that expensive britain is the issue.

There need to be incentives. A system in place before the whip cracked.

Cheaper properties/land costs or at least regulation to stop it accelerating out of control.

There needs to be some sort programme to encourage companies to provide a private sector job boom. If that means regulation process then so be it. Maybe some tax relief if they promise to invest and create jobs but by company by company. If dont invest and you can afford to then high taxasion. Provide a percentage to job creation then get a better tax deal.

Skills shortage programme not work schemes like we had in the past which was not reconised by industry merely a way to get people off the dole. Proper apprenticeship scheme. Lets go back to something which actually worked. The system would be for Youth mainly but for stop fill to get adults back then allow apprenticeships for upto 40 year olds.

Lets not go down thatcher lost generation on pretence we need cuts.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

There is a social engineering trend that has been under way for some time but will accelerate with austerity measures.

Apart from the very rich many\most people get trapped in the trade off between income and cost. It is entirely possible to be relatively poor on a fairly high income level due to location. It is when such a situation develops that the difference between gross and net income hits very hard and an individual realises they are trapped. They are exploited by the state and local housing plus living costs.

The trend towards cheaper costs for greater profits within companies has become too normal and migrated into areas where costs are relatively low but salaries are below economic levels. With the draconian changes in welfare support structures it can only lead to extreme hardship and in time the multiple prongs of social engineering will unravel in a generalised explosion of anger.

It happened in the late 70's when people generally had taken as much pain as they could endure. The "Winter of discontent" doesn't see justice in historic reports but the UK was just about to get flushed down the loo and people were so depressed that they didn't care. It will take some time to get there again but the ingredients are falling into line and without more U turns than is possible is unavoidable.

People will not be marginalised with no hope and pointed towards supposed jobs with no financial viability. They will become angry and at some point need to vent that anger. Democracy is based on the premise that via majority vote those elected govern in the interests of the majority. This thread highlights an anti democratic trend whereby migrant workers are pulling down wages\salaries to distorted market levels and to the disadvantage of locals. The longer it goes on the more Brits are marginalised the greater the tensions.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

True, true.

My rent on my flat would make many people's eyes bleed.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I thank god that we do have a minimum wage. Back in 1985 I left school and was waiting for a YTS placement (Youth Training Scheme) while I waited I got a job a a big fast food chain, and was paid £1.48 per hour.

I did get free food/drink at breaks, but not much good to a non meat eater.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

The bottom end of the scale is getting income tax cuts at the expense of people higher up the scale.

Wages aren't keeping pace with inflation but were doing more than previously.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Just think. at the next election Cameron will be saying I will reduce public services further. I will make more cuts to the police force. I will make more big funding cuts to most services. vote for me!

whilst the other parties just have to say we will increase support and funding that they know the voting public didn't like the cuts to, and they're in the door! :)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Here you go Arthur, a story to gladden your heart.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12733899

That'll teach all those hairdressers, coming in here and stealing our jobs.

It is a Tory initiative, but then you can't have everything, can you.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

A fair wage is a living wage not the minimum, far to many companies seem to have it as the default wage these days imo.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

That's a good point really.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Very true. How they pay for this support and funding is of course just a minor detail.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I know. but it won't matter.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Surey you're not suggesting that Arthur's not the only one who'll vote for anyone who promises to spend, spend, spend. The 'Gain With No Pain' party... :rolleyes:

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Arthur you seem to be under the illusion that companies are only in existence to give people a job ,they are not ,they are in business to make money so of course they will take the cheapest labour possible ,if a company could operate without staff then they would .Higher wages mean higher prices at the checkout .
One of the problems we are facing at the moment is that the cost of living is going through the roof but wages are being dropped or frozen so people have less or no disposable income ,bills will not get paid ,second cars will be sold and more people will elect to remain on the dole as it just isn't worth going to work ,why would anyone work at a loss when the state will pay rent/mortgage

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

That's what the voter will want. or do you expect every parties manifesto is going to say we promise to cut this and that, and the public will vote for the one with the most cuts planned?

it used to be the case that we voted for a party that said they we're going to put more police on the street. remember them days?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

That is correct ,what i meant in my post was people can't expect a wage that will give them 2 cars and umpteen holidays abroard when they have no skill set .I also agree that the minimum wage seems to be the default setting for wages at the unskilled end of the scale and getting above that seems to be very hard .The minimum wage law seems to be a double edged sword imo ,on one hand it guarantees a minimum wage but employers will always try to keep wages as close to it as possible

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:17 ----------


I think Cameron touched on that when he was elected ,i seem to remember him saying that he only has one term in office to turn things around because the cuts he has to make will be so unpopular that labour will get straight back in power .
Unless he is a lot more aggressive in his stance against labour,and by that i mean being 100% open about the mess that labour made of what was at the time labour came to power a very strong economy,then i don't think he has a cat in hells chance of retaining power .I think a few tv interviews about "the state of the nation" explaining clearly why these cuts have to be made because sadly there is still a large section of society who do not understand that we have no money left and the only reason labour could get us into so much debt by using our AAA credit rating was because of the previous tory government who got us that AAA credit rating

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

It's not what I want. I'm a realist. I know that New Labour stitched us up and spent/wasted vast amounts money they didn't have. I wouldn't vote for that. How about you?

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

one word. contraception.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Erm, are you in the right thread? :erm:

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I won't vote for either of them.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

But you see thats not such good idea for those that know how to milk the Benefits and CSA system is it. ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

The obvious solution is of course to change the benefits system :)

As far as milking the CSA system goes it's fairly simple - if you do the deed you should man up and face the consequences. If more men did less of our money would be spent supporting their children.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

I somehow don't think its quite as simple as that ;)

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

Indeed. Drink normally increases the risk that some poor lad will be conned by the oldest trick in the book.

Re: This is what is wrong with this country ?
 

LOL
the poor lads get tricked into giving her a pregnant pension. they get nothing out of it at all. not even the dirty nappies :)