When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/ne...s_pm_1_2483614

Well when you build a house illegally then you are not a traveller.

These so called travellers are claiming "Human Rights" BS.

Sorry but they have no case and should travel somewhere else.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

There are just not enough sites for all the Travellers to use mainly because no one wants a traveller site near them.

I'm also wondering if they all decided to jack in the life and buy a house down your street and pay their dues and taxes tomorrow, how people might feel about them then...Got a feeling they still wouldn't be welcome.:rolleyes:

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

can you blame them ,whenever travellers are in the area crime rates go through the roof


depends if they gave up on the "old ways" as well ,i actually know a family of travellers very well who did exactly that except it was a council house they got ,they are still thieving gits ,and didn't pay there dues for very long either

Also are we talking about Gypsies or travellers ? i see them as different

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

If they are 'travellers' then they should travel with short stopovers here and there as they have always done.

If they stop travelling and want a permanent home then the same planning and social restrictions should apply, same as the rest of us.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I think the hippy,dippy travellers are a different and almost gone group.The present travellers tend to be Irish but they were at one time called Romanies and in other parts of Europe they still are.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

My point was how can a traveller live in a house (Bricks & mortar) rather than a caravan?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I think most of the roofs disappear - the lead ones.

Plenty of new driveways though.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Can we please try and keep this thread on topic, I'm sure that there are light fingeed travellers, but then I guess there more honest one, and the few give the rest a bad name.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

They are no more averse to living in a house than anyone else..They still keep their caravans alongside their houses against the day they get forced to move.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

The site mentioned in the OP's link was a former scrap yard. It is in the middle of nowhere and contrary to popular belief, has not expanded in size. It still encompasses the same footprint it did before the travellers moved in.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Of course the area covered is the same. It didn't magically expand in size. Did the same number of people live there before with all the same demands of power, water, sewage, rubbish etc?:rolleyes:

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

You really don't think the water company put in sewerage and the power companies lay down cables or that Essex County Council have been doing their fortnightly refuse collection and recycling. I suppose Virgin went in and offered to sign them all to cable and broadband. :rolleyes:

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Are you saying that they are doing without those services?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Irish Travellers and Romani Gypsies aren't the same thing, and tend to have quite a different image.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I have no idea, but I doubt very much that the water, electricity, gas and telephone companies were banging on their doors, do you?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Well, assuming they don't want to go legit, there are a few ways around the problem (at least with Electricity).

1) Connect the supply to a convenient local source, such as a local house, business or even street light. This is both illegal and dangerous, but I daresay they've been done at least once, whether by travellers or not.

2) Use generators.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

It wouldn't surprise me actually. They've been known in the past to supply services to other sorts of squatters.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

'We'll bomb, gas and burn the bailiffs': After making life a misery for villagers for 10 years, travellers in Gypsy City won't go without a fight

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1GgrPY9ku

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I'ld like to know how some of them can afford a £35-45,000 range rover.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

you mean you can't guess ;)

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Go on then, let us all know. Please remember to provide the evidence.

---------- Post added at 03:38 ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 ----------

Aah yes, The Daily Heil, friend of the Gypsies. :rolleyes:

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Not wanting to Tarmac them all with the same brush but this isn't an exactly a news flash.

http://www.themissinglist.co.uk/poli...ler-nationwide

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

thank you for the comment i see the quality of the content is still substandard ;)

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I assume that was directed at me ,and unless you have been living in a box then you would know that crime rates generally take an upturn whenever travellers are in the area ,but since you want some evidence here you go

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-year-low.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-caravans.html

If you want more then remember that :google: is your friend

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

yes,but that's not politically correct,so shush :D

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Would you like a list of non-travellers who are criminals? I'll hazard a guess at which list will be longer.

---------- Post added at 01:42 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ----------

Are you seriously trying to correlate the two events? Gypsies get put away and as a result the crime rates plummet? :geez:

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I'm a realist. There are plenty of gypsies / travellers who are perfectly law abiding but a significant number do get involved in criminality. It's also pretty much a given when an bunch of caravans appear the crime rate for shopliftings, theft of metals, criminal damage and bogus workmen spike and remain higher till they move on.

That might offend the muesli eating, sandal wearers in the audience but it happens to be the truth.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

nevermind 20 million + eviction, send a few jcb's and bulldoze the place regardless of weather or not they move out, these people are vermin.

if things get out of hand with the bulldozing, send the flying squad!

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

If you could put it in terms of % per population, that would be much better please.

---------- Post added at 09:45 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

Very harsh.

But I'm not a hypocrite, if a band of travellers turned up in field next me, I'd be in the first JCB

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Dig a trench so they can't get out? :)

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

it is the only way to deal with these people... they need to be shown they are not welcome or things will continue, when evicted they will move site, if a show of force and no compassion is used, they may think twice!

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Oh for gods sake Flyboy are you realy that naive .I haven't correlated anything ,the authorities have reached the obvious conclusion that if a gang of travellers are commiting crimes which they were ...FACT...then the crime rate drops considerably because the amount of crime they were commiting was so considerable...FACT..

You need to open your eyes ,there's a big bad world out there full of nasty people

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I also as a sandal wearing but non muesli eating liberal would like to think that we would sympathise with those travellers whom are law abiding and might actually get a break from being tarred with the same brush..
We cannot treat a whole community this way just because of a few.
There are criminal types living in my town but I don't get labelled as a criminal as a consequence..why should honest travellers be labelled this way?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

:shrug:

Do the people in your town come forward to assist the Police with investigating crimes or do they throw up an impressive wall of silence to any queries?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Of course not all travellers are bent as a butchers hook we must assume because i don't know that any more than you do , but if a group parked at the bottom of your street and all of a sudden the lead started to go missing from roofs and garden sheds broke into who would you blame ? and then ask yourself ,for a group of people with no jobs ,maybe just a bit of jobbing building or gardening ,how do they get to buy range rovers ,and pay 50,000 for a daughters wedding ?and then ask yourself why in the name of all that is holy should tax payers support these people .

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I totally agree Homer

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I should guess that the answer will be that SOME will do so...and the rest of us won't have any info to offer because we haven't any to offer.

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

I've already got those in my community stealing copper off the beautiful copper roofed local secondary school.I might just look at them first...because they are already known for it.;)

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I have NEVER had any help from the travelling community and experienced outright hostility from the majority for daring to ask if by any chance they know what had happened to all the drain covers in a 4 street radius of the car park they were residing in.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Well I might do the same if I was also accused of a crime that I had not done and if I was always being asked the same sorts of questions over and over again..and I'm betting there are some housing estates where you would get the same attitude.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

The problem as i see it is that ,as you say the problem exists on housing estates just as much as in the traveller community,with one big difference,the travellers make a concious decision to live outside society ,they don't recognise our laws they are off the opinion that they are outside our laws and we shouldn't try to impose them on their people ,whereas criminals on housing estates tend to accept that if they get caught they will get punished by society in one way or another and my biggest issue is that when they pick and choose i.e being a traveller and claiming benefits

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

The bottom line is, they're **** of the earth.

Usually I would censor myself and accuse myself of being generalising, but not this time. They're nothing but thieves, scallywags and tricksters.

Back in the day, they may have had a trade, they would usually be with a travelling fair or something. But as Martyn days, they're buzzing about in range rovers and x5's with no discernible means of income.

I watched two separate police programmes the other night, motorway cops and police interceptors, I think.

One case a range rover had rammed a mx5 off the road, the second programme a family on their holiday had pulled into a services and had their caravan nicked off the back of their car in the car park.

Transports to blame in both cases.

The first one was worse as the police had CCTV showing the range rover (or it might have been an x5) leaving their camp 2 mins before the accident but surprisingly nobody knew the driver, on fact the wife of the driver denied owning the vehicle (it was registered to a fake address in Eire).

Don't make excuses for them and pray they don't up near you

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

I do apologise for the typos, I've just got an iPhone and the autocorrect has got the better of me

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Actually there are a whole underclass on housing estates across the country that do exactly as you claim gypsies do..and they don't accept that society has a right to punish them either..it's not a unique attitude to gypsies..it just rather easier to spot in regards to gypsies.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I guess you don't get to many inner city estates?

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

They pay taxes as well.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

Hmmmm.......Gypsies not trusting the police....I wonder why?

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

Aaaahhh I see, it is because they don't conform to what you believe is "normal" that they don't deserve your trust and respect. I remember the same attitude in places like Notting HIll and Brixton.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Not excusing yourself for being a bigot, doesn't make you big.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

If you don't count the 2 most deprived areas of Scotland for the last ten years then no I don't at all.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Then your are either being disingenuous in your remarks, or are ignoring the very real similarities with inner city estates.

Are you saying they don't pay taxes?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

In even the roughest, most anti-Police estates in Scotland I've worked in where you have to take a minimum of 4 cops into I've managed to persuade people to open up to me and provide information.

As I've said I have NEVER had any help whatsoever from the travelling community and experienced outright hostility and violence from then for daring to enter 'their' campsites and ask questions about things.

I would wager large and vital parts of my anatomy on them not paying the same amount of taxes as other, non caravan utilising nomadic travellers do. I certainly don't imagine they bother too much with lodging accounts from their building companies.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

I know that was directed to derek but i will answer as well ,i have and do live on inner city estates and for the most part people will help the police ,sometimes ,if they have something to gain ,some people even do it because they are good people ,travellers don't ,simple as that, and yes i have experience with travellers before you ask

since when ? you realy are naive aren't, you when was the last time you saw a traveller handing over wads of cash at your local tax office

because they live by their own rules and mostly don't recognise our laws ,plus they don't want the police asking too many questions about the pile of scrap behind the caravans or the couple of stolen caravans that just happen to be lying around


no it's because they think they have a right to take peoples property and con people out of money

Quote:

Not excusing yourself for being a bigot, doesn't make you big.

It's not bigotry to despise people on the grounds that they are thieving lying conning sponging good for nothing .................and so on

you really need to wake up and smell the coffee you can defend them as much as you like but while your doing that they will be plotting how to relieve you of your possesions and money

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Flyboy, I am hazarding a guess here that you don't deal with the Travelling community much? While they may not all be bad, they aren't like the rather rosy picture painted by the recent Channel 4 documentary series either.

As for my own opinion of them.. Well, lets just say that I tend to be rather suspicious of a people who turn up to collect their dole money in a new BMW.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Are you sure they don't pay any taxes.

And get accused of every crime that the boys in blue can't solve. Get treated like dirt everywhere they go. Get ignored by everyone, insulted by the likes of many posters on here, be treated with fear and suspicion wherever they go, is it a surprise they don't trust anyone.

And treating them all like that is the mark of a blanced attitude to others?

Can you not even see the slightest bit of irony in that? Sweeping generalisations, based on ignorance and fear, is bigotry, there is no way of escaping the fact.

No, those are your fears, not mine. I prefer to act with more rationale than that.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

I have great deal of contact with Gypsies and Travellers. Enough to know that one should not judge others by listening to those who have their own agendas.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Irish Travellers are a recognised ethnic minority, covered by the Race Relations Act. It's wrong to label them all as thieving **** etc., just as it's wrong to say e.g. all black people are thieving ****.

Some of them however really do not help the group as a whole, which does not help things regarding any attitude of / discrimination by non-Travellers. I'm not saying that it's OK to tar them all with the same brush, but I know (as someone in East Anglia) why so many people have such a bad opinion of Travellers.

My own experiences of Travellers have all been rather negative, as have those of my friends and colleagues.

No, that doesn't mean that all Travellers are bad, but it adds to the image, the stereotype.

One bad apple... etc.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

what agenda ?:confused: i just don't want the thieving gits living near me

you can love them as much as you like that's your choice ,it's my choice to have no truck with them that doesn't make me a bigot or racist or any of your pathetic adjectives you like to tar people with when they disagree with you ,it makes me carefull about which kind of people i mix with ,i don't mix with criminals or people i percieve to be criminal ..end of

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Very sure, in fact they all pay tax.

Hmm....very adult.

What does not make sense? Surely you have to agree that making decision about people's character based on stereotyped racial bias is hardly balanced, is it.

Denying bigotry, whilst making a bigoted statement is as ironic as it comes.

No, I think you are in the wrong. They are irrational fears, as are most prejudiced views.

Again, I presume you can't see the irony in that as well.

And yet again, you are full of irony aren't you. Of course, it is your choice with whom you interact, but the issues are, why you don't want to interact with them, there lies the problem. If, for example, you were to say that you don't want to mix with Muslims, because they blow people up, would you not consider that to be just a little unfair. I am going to assume that you would agree (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong about that), so why would you say that you don't want to mix with Gypsies and Travellers, because they are all criminals and they want to steal your proeprty? Can you not see the ironies and contradictions you have posted?

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

now i know you are deliberately picking an argument for the sake of it ,that has to be the most inane comment ever on this forum

I can't be bothered with you any more

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Well if they purchase anything apart from food, they pay VAT and if it's tobacco,alcohol or petrol/diesel they pay customs and excise duty so yes they will pay tax of some sort. ;)

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

Of course you do. That's how you know they *all* pay taxes.. Odd that, as most social groups have at least a few members that are, shall we say, less than honest when it comes to taxes. Yet travellers are paragons of virtue who are just given a bad name by others.

If you believe that of any social group, you are being extremely naive.

Funnily enough, I suspect if Travelers did contribute as much to local communities as you appear to be saying, most local communities would be happy to accept them, and ignore any bad press.

Personally, I agree with Matt. Travelers are like any group. Some are good, some are bad.

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

except for the 20 or so lined up by the tyne tunnel last year when the "hoppings fair " was leaving town and the transport cops did the lot for red diesel :D

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

More than the traveller community are guilty of that..;)

Re: When is a traveller not a Traveller?
 

oh i know ,a good friend of mine who has his own building company and is not a traveller used red diesel for years in his vans and lorries ...used to buy it from his traveller buddies as i recall ,along with the bobcat ,the jcb ,the scaffold and pretty much anything else that wasn't tied down

I'm not saying that everybody else is whiter than white and the travellers are all crooked scuz buckets, i never have,it's just i haven't met a legit non crooked traveller yet ,rare as hens teeth comes to mind ;)