Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

This government need to have a good look in the mirror at themself and think, what are we doing to this country.

They have now decided to reduce the pay of officers, not only have they cut the forces down to a bare minimum, they have now decided to cut there pay.

This will not only reduce the morale of officers on the beat to an all time low, but it will reduce the prospect of anyone thinking of joining the service, we need MORE police officers and PCSO's on the beat otherwise crime will go up, and who will win in the end - the criminal, as they will know that if they commit a crime, there will be no old bill to nick em'.:(

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

oh dear a pay cut what a shame still they have a job many don't in these hard times , stiff upper lip chaps this ones for blighty .

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My son works with the Bill, and if you knew what they had to do, to protect the public, you would not make comments like that.

They very hard under stressful situations and should be paid accordingly, like LAS and Nurses and Teachers.

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i've had to forgo pay rises as have a great many people in the Uk- some have had pay reduced so their company's could survive ,as our beloved PM says we are all in this together ,the alternative is the job centre .

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Public sympathy might be quite thin when others are losing their jobs, having whatever money they have took off them in the way of fines issued by the police.
imagining that the police force's main role today is policing and fining drivers, and not so much looking after the public.
knowing that summer brings all the police out, and winter keeps them indoors.
above all that. everyone is too busy thinking of themselves now to be too concerned for others.

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

POLICE PAY SCALES IN BRIEF from 1/10/10

£23,000 - constables on entering service
£26,000 - constables on completing training
£36,000 - basic for sergeants
£46,000 - basic for inspectors
£56,000 - top pay for inspectors

£ 23 k for a rookie that's not a bad starting wage no wonder the country's strapped for cash -

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Don't break the speed limit/run red lights/drive like a moron = don't get fined. Simples. ;)

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Arthur ,it would appear that you have neglected to read past the headlines ,a pay freeze is not a pay cut

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1FTAwyY9B

If that is all that they have to put up with then they can think themselves lucky,a large propertion of private sector pay has actually been cut and shows no signs of going back up in the next 2 years ,indeed my rates have just been cut for the second time this year so i for one will not be shedding any tears for police already on a decent wage and managing to keep it the same for the next 2 years

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But while wages are frozen, the cost of living isn't, so that makes them worse off.

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Same old story per usual and yet again failed to provide a LINK leaving it for the following poster to link to relevant story - I am sick to death of telling you Arthur. :mad:

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not as bad as those of us who have had a pay cut and have to suffer the rise in the cost of living ,a double wammy if you will

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To be fair (maybe to just me personally), the story was out way before anyone posted the subject here to be discussed. Providing a link doesn't always matter to me personally (but it can help others). If can't use google or whatever then yeah it would be problem. But with Arthur (I'm not excusing him or anything), it's part of norm, but he does provide to add to what this forum is all about - discussion.

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It's bad for everyone in these cut / freeze situations, and it looks like it's going to get a hell of a lot worse.

But this was to be expected wasn't it? Tough decisions for tough times and all that.

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It doesn't bother me either if he doesn't post a link. I know other people find it annoying and they are entitled to that. I just find there's a lot more going on in the world than Artur not posting a link. I dont think he knows how to do it but to me I always find he has a very interesting things to say and says them very well and does open up topics of discussion

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I agree.

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You don't get fines if you haven't done anything wrong. And despite what the daily mail think handing out fines to drivers is a very, very small part of a typical cops day.

Personally speaking I've handed out two fixed penalties this year. One for using a mobile phone whilst driving, one for going through a red light. Not exactly handing them out like confetti is it?

It is fairly well paid but after the initial training you are right in at the deep end.

There is 'independent' report coming out next week (Tuesday I think) about Police pay and conditions. It's hardly independent if the Home Sec has already said she is going to take an axe to long-standing agreements before she has read what is suggested.

It's a given that the pension contributions, already this highest in the public sector AFAIK, will go up to 14% so a 3% cut in real terms. The public holiday pay will drop and standard overtime will go to plain time. There are even whispered rumours of overtime being done away with completely.

Maybe some think thats not too bad but like a lot of things we don't get a choice in working, if we get told to come in we do regardless of prior committments.

Remember as well we don't have the right to strike.

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

Oh and before anyone believes the Daily Mail the story about claiming £100 for answering your phone on a day off is fantasy.

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More like £200 is it Derek ;) :D

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Pay cut = they (whoever "they" may be) reduce your pay.

Pay freeze = they (as above) don't give you any more money.

Big difference (speaking as someone who has had a pay freeze since September 2008).

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

Yeah, my son's pay freeze happened around the same time, and they no longer recieve their yearly bonus.

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

As you might expect the Police bloggers have their own take on this.

PC Bloggs

Inspector Gadget

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

an end to ‘grab a grand’

£5,000 police bonuses are axed: Rank-and-file fury as chief constables end payment for simply 'doing the job'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1FWENLBlA

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As a salaried worker, I don't get paid a penny extra no matter how much overtime I work. If I have to work an extra 10 hours to get the job done, then so be it. No fancy bonus for me either.
I don't really see the big deal with the pay freeze, its the same all over - last year I had to take a week furlow as did near everyone else where I work.
As Mr Cameron said "We're all in this together.", about time the police join in and I don't think they should be exempt just because they start kicking and squealing.
Our lads in Afghanistan are on a fraction of the pay and benefits bequeathed to the guys and gals in blue, and with a far greater risk of being maimed or killed. I think the police should just be grateful they still have their jobs, unlike so many others during these difficult times.

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If you routinely end up spending vastly more hours at the office than you are contracted to, then your employer is taking the mick frankly. As soon as the job market improves, go and find a job with a company with a slightly more enlightened view of employee welfare.

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Its not routine per se, but I don't work simply for money - I work mostly for the satisfaction in knowing I've contributed to making the world a better place. I'm not badly paid either and I'm well looked after, it's just that I don't get paid for overtime.

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That's not uncommon for office work though. Your contract will state that you have a basic working week (probably 35 or 37.5 hours) and that occasional overtime is required. However it will also state that your salary is calculated on the assumption you will do overtime and that it contains an allowance for this already.

Just because you have an arrangement like this, doesn't mean that people who do not (i.e. people such as police, in this case), shouldn't get overtime when it's earned. A contract is a contract.

I guess the problem is, you probably weren't working there at the time they switched away from calculated overtime. If you had been, you would have seen the jump in your salary. I know plenty of people this has happened to (most of them quite a bit older than us, to be fair) and at the time they thought it was a good deal.

Personally, while I enjoy my work, it's not the main focus of my life. It serves me because it puts a roof over my family's head and food on the table. I do what I do well, and thoroughly, but I expect to get paid for it.

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

I must have missed that part where they said that.

Good job you're not on performance pay, then :)

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If you decide the job isn't worth it and go home could you get jailed?

If your boss decides you need to come in and work on a day with no notice regardless of previous plans do you need to comply with his demands?

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

28,000 police job losses

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I think from Sergeant upwards it's well paid. Factor in the pension, and the ability to retire early on a full pension and it's very, very good.

So you have to pay your dues when you start out, same in many trades/ jobs.

you contribute 14%, how much do we contribute?

You also can't be made redundant. In this current climate that kind of job security is priceless.

When they talk about job losses, they mean not replacing officers that leave, not making them redundant.

Forget about overtime rates and having to work when asked. If someone said to me here's a job for life, until you retire (early if you want, depending when you joined obviously) on a decent pension (so you could even get a nice little part time job in your 50's and see out your years in comfort) - that would be very nice thank you.

Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge any of it. Tough job, needs its fringe benefits, not for me otherwise I'd of considered it.

But Police that complain about their T&Cs don't get any time from me.

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Probably the same if not less than for any other public sector employee.

They are wanting to remove that safety net and have short, medium and long term contracts instead of an ongoing job.

I don't know if anyone was watching the BBC News there. Nick Robinson has just claimed every cop in London gets double time for working Sundays. A blatant lie that makes the 4 hours O/T for answering a phonecall myth seem believable. :mad:

I'm curious as to other workers experiences with overtime. Every previous workplace I've been in has offered time and a half at a minimum for overtime and the current time and third, minus the first half hour, is the lowest I've experienced yet it's still trotted out as being outrageous and tantamount to sticking your fingers in the till.

What do firemen, ambulance workers, nurses etc. get for overtime rates? :confused:

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And some don't get paid overtime.

I know the police do a hard job, but as per ALL public sector jobs, it's Joe public who has to stump up and pay.............even if not receiving pay rises themselves, where will it end? I have noticed my pay packet go down over the last 10 years, but the bills just keep going up.

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in my experience those in the private sector are very lucky if they get overtime rates ,my wife doesn't (not even for weekends) non of the factory workers at the company i subby to get overtime rates ,the night shift get the same pay as the day shift

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They haven't cut salaries (they have frozen them), and they are not directly cutting the numbers.

They cannot make the Police Officers redundant. There are a lot of people who work for publicly funded organisations who are not necessarily directly employed by the government or any of the councils. They have no such job security. I am in that position.

Unfortunately, I think we would have had these cuts regardless of who was in charge, thanks to the mismanagement of the last government. I also think that had the government not made these cuts, the country would have gone "bankrupt". If this had happened, we would have been rescued, but we'd be facing far worse cuts now and cuts for a lot longer. Look at Ireland and Greece.

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Most NHS workers come under the Agenda for Change Pay scheme introduced about 5 years ago iirc. Any hours we work over full time 37.5 are paid at 1.5 times, but if you are part time you have to work up to full time before having this entitlement. But tbh my overtime stopped last August which is why I'm now in a debt management plan as no overtime and no pay rise (for 3 years!) = can't pay all the bills :(

But i do feel lucky to have a full time job at this time and I'm quite happy to work a 2nd job to make ends meet.

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

TBO I don't care that their having a pay cut. (I have a friend who is in Afganistan and get £20,000. A cop get £23,000 and doesn't face bomsbs or bullets every day)

I'l would have rather taken a pay cut than given redundancy.

In the current climate a cut is better than a total loss.

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I thinks that's a 'no' then.....

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My personnel feeling is that the police services, whatever force it is, deserve DOUBLE what they get, along with LAS and the Nurses.

WOULD any member of this forum do there job, l doubt that very much, its stressful, it is sometime take you to the limit, when you arrest someone and then get away with it on a technicality.

The paperwork, the red tape, the forces are paid to protect US. and should be paid accordingly, all these people who say, they get paid for sitting on there backside and drinking tea, there dreaming.

Remember, they have signed contracts, and therefore these are legally binding,

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

Actually i know of one forum member who does do their job. ;)

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marty, you appear to be confusing overtime pay with shift pay/allowance - completely different things.

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I take it you've never met any nurses? I have, and while a lot do a good job, there are also quite a few who do little or nothing. I suppose my opinion on Nurses took a knock when I worked at a hospital and saw how many Nurses nicked food from the patients. Not a good thing when we were budgeted a total of £1.49 a day for each patient and that £1.49 had to cover *all* the food and drink given to that patient for that day.

I wouldn't. I know a few coppers though. How hard the job is depends on the area you are assigned to. I know that it *can* be a very dangerous and stressful job.

To illustrate that, I'll repeat something I posted a while back. One of my friends had been out of training a couple of weeks, and was assigned to Hounslow.

He was out on patrol and had to search a drug addict. In the search, he was stabbed by an empty syringe. He had to endure weeks of stress while he waited to find out what (if anything) he was infected by. He even convinced himself he was HIV+. Thankfully, the needle was clean. I am sure Derek has many similar stories.

However, he is posted in a quiet town now and (apparently) rarely sees action, but still gets paid the same.

It's also worth remembering that the Police are not the only government employees who regularly face danger (although they are amongst the better paid). I have family who worked at the DSS. They got death threats daily from claimants. Threats we were advised to take *seriously*. They were paid less than a third of what the average copper earned at the time.

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no i'm not ,there is no overtime rate i.e time and a half double time ,the point about the night shift is that traditionlly night shift workers got extra for working night shift ours don't and i would suspect not many more do these days .I have confirmed with my wife who works for a chain of freezer shops that overtime is paid at the normal rate ,no extra for working weekends and bank holidays just the normal rate

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Expertly not answered. We're talking about police not other public sector workers.

I'll ask again, you contribute 14%, how much does the force contribute?

as I understand, that is not on the table.

I don't get it, I used to get it in a more junior position, but for the last 10 years I have been expected to work as and when required, and be available 24/7.

I get a decent salary, and my working patterns are flexible so if I work a Sat or Sun or have a very late evening, I'll balance it up somewhere in the month/year. I don't get recompensed for inconvenience.

It's what many people in the private sector do all the time.

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

....and you are happy for your taxes to be increased and/or benefits be reduced to subsidise this?


All hours I do over the standard 37.5 are for the benefit of the company I work for :(

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It'll be interesting to see in a few years, when we're struggling for police officers, what they do to 'incentivise' people to join the force because the numbers are too low.This isn't the first time it's happened.

I suppose we could have yet more PCSO's of course lol. Not quite the same is it though.

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Of course he isn't! He doesn't want other services cut either. Arthur subscribes to Gordon Brown's buy now, pay later school of economics and believes he's entiled to have his cake and eat it. He's in total denial about the serious size/implications of the nation's debt, whines incessantly about the spending cuts but never seems able to say where the money needed to run his 'dreamworld' would come from. I reckon he was one of Gordon Brown's senior economic advisors at one time... :D

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

....indeed - I mean the Govt must have access to an arboretum providing all the readies mustn;'t they

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

Well the BofE has been printing quite a bit of money over the last year or two so......

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Why does think l am a Labour Voter, I will vote for the party that will look after myself and my family.

And at the moment it is being torn to pieces by a stupid government who thinks of making cuts in everything - yet splash OUR money on lavish parties and themself silly wages.

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

Perhaps it's because you continually attack the current government yet were oddly silent while the Labour government were busy getting us into this situation.

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Because the only reason you withheld your vote from Labour last year was due to your local candidate being crap and from Hounslow. Nothing to do with you disagreeing with Labour's policies.

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Wasn't aware it was the government's job to look after us.

While you're discussing our money where do you think the money to look after you and your family will come from? No party can look after you and your family because no party has their own money, it's our money, there's a limited supply of it and it has to be prioritised.

The alternative is taxes going up by a quarter. Given your complaints about taxation I've no idea where the money to look after you and your family and not cut services is coming from.

Incidentally I couldn't care less which party you vote for, I just don't get your view of the world or of what you're entitled to.

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I suppose technically it's the government's job to manage the state which is supposedly there to look after those who need it.

This is something a lot of people forget. While the Government routinely deals in amounts of money far higher than the average person will ever encounter in their lifetime, they still do have a finite supply of money.

You are right, the Government's primary income is from us. As such, when they waste money, it's our money.

This is the classic rock/hard place situation for me. If the cuts go too deep, I could very well lose my job. Which I cannot afford to do. If they raise taxes too much, I cannot afford that either.

Clearly Arthur favours Gorden Brown's method of economic management which seemed to involve getting the country heavily in debt, so he could attempt to finance a "boom" in the economy, then selling off the country's gold reserves for a fraction of what they were worth. The Governmental equivalent of maxing out your credit cards, taking out loans (from one of these easy credit companies that advertise on TV in the middle of the night and charge almost triple digit interest rates), then taking the wife's jewellery down to CashConverters just so you can afford to take the family on Holiday..

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You see Arthur can't/won't grasp that fact. He thinks money comes from thin air and even though the BofE has been printing plenty of it, it's still not enough for him because cuts are being made. He's so scathing about the current government's policy because he's bought into all that New Labour spin and thinks it's purely political - big city Tory fat cats against good old Arthur and his working class chums. The fact that the party he so stridently supports and still can't bring himself to call to account for what happened had more than it's fair share of Oxbridge types, millionaires and sleazy, self serving hyprocrites seems to escape his notice for some odd reason. :confused: :rolleyes: Likewise, the major roles the current leader and Shadow Chancellor played in New Labour's financial debacle is conveniently overlooked. No, I'm afraid Arthur can't see beyond the end of his rose tinted nose and still can't accept what a mess we're in, let alone how we're actually going to pay for Brown's decade of excess. Perhaps he thinks that what's actually happening in Greece, Portugal, Iceland and Ireland is all fiction or can't happen to us. Perhaps Arthur thinks we can just dictate what we borrow and the terms which apply to that borrowing. Perhaps he thinks that UK PLC can just continue borrowing more and more money and printing notes to repay the interest due. Perhaps he thinks foreign investors will continue lending us money no matter what and out of the goodness of their hearts. Perhaps he thinks we can just walk away from our debts like so many of our less than prudent countrymen/women have done. Perhaps he thinks taxing the rich and the banks will wipe the slate clean overnight and then the spending can start all over again and that his children and grandchildren won't have to work harder for longer and get even less in return for the tax they pay than he does. Then again perhaps Arthur just doesn't think at all.....

Re: Cutting pay for the Police - what next
 

Purely a safety net though - the idea of being 'looked after' by the government doesn't appeal, it's their job to be there when you can't look after yourself, any other expectation is, to my mind, inappropriate. Maybe I'm a bit too libertarian in that regard :)

It's basically all from us. Something people often forget when they talk about companies paying tax is that these companies make money from their customers, and eventually the customers are us most of the time, either directly or through our purchases of other items relying on them.

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Correct and although Arthur says he'll vote for any party which 'will look after myself and my family' it clearly hasn't dawned on him that what's been spent on him and his family has been borrowed and will ultimately have to be repaid by him, his family and their offspring for years to come. Spending money they didn't have and creating massive debt - that's how well you, your family and the rest of us mere taxpayers were looked after by our last 'government' Arthur!

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The kids, 'yoof' and Generation X/Yers that will be paying these bills off aren't as numerous, or as politically active, as Arthur's cohort. As a politician wanting to get re-elected you do the maths. Even these cuts and tax rises fall disproportionately on younger generations and families.