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Digital Fanatic 28-02-2011 17:22

Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-12598896

Quote:

A decision to bar a Christian couple from fostering children because of their views on homosexuality has been backed at the High Court.

Eunice and Owen Johns, 62 and 65, of Derby, said the city council did not want them to become foster carers because of their traditional views.

The couple said they were "doomed not to be approved" because of their views.

The Pentecostal Christian couple had applied to Derby City Council to be respite carers.

Maggy 28-02-2011 17:35

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35183973)

I'm against ageism but I think that they are a little too old to be foster parents for the long term anyway..:erm:

martyh 28-02-2011 17:36

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quite correct in my view .Their is always a possibility that they would try to influence any foster child to their views who would not nescessarily be or become a christian or be religious in any way

Gary L 28-02-2011 17:46

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35183995)
Quite correct in my view .Their is always a possibility that they would try to influence any foster child to their views who would not nescessarily be or become a christian or be religious in any way

Same could and has been said about (natural) Christian parents influencing the children.

nomadking 28-02-2011 17:52

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35183995)
Quite correct in my view .Their is always a possibility that they would try to influence any foster child to their views who would not nescessarily be or become a christian or be religious in any way

1) Doesn't that potentially apply to anyone, even atheists?:rolleyes:
Quote:

The Pentecostal Christian couple had applied to Derby City Council to be respite carers.
2) Respite care is for short periods in order to give parents of disabled children a break from caring for them, and so anybody wouldn't have much time(eg 2 weeks) to possibly impose any views.

martyh 28-02-2011 18:01

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35184011)
Same could and has been said about (natural) Christian parents influencing the children.

Difference is they are their own children and as such the parent has the right to influence their children any way within the law

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35184019)
1) Doesn't that potentially apply to anyone, even atheists?:rolleyes:

Of course it does ,and if a homophobic athiest couple applied to become foster parents/respite carers they would be refused as well

nomadking 28-02-2011 18:12

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35184023)
Difference is they are their own children and as such the parent has the right to influence their children any way within the law

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------



Of course it does ,and if a homophobic athiest couple applied to become foster parents/respite carers they would be refused as well

A reader comment from the linked article. Link to comment.
Quote:

I am a gay man and I would not tell a 'small child' that homosexuality is a 'good thing' .For a teenager unsure of sexual orientation it could be up for discussion but this decision is madness!

Hugh 28-02-2011 18:17

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
They weren't asked to say that homosexuality is a "good thing", so that is a bit of a straw man statement......

What they actually said was
Quote:

they could not tell a child a homosexual lifestyle was acceptable.
I wonder if the person who stated the comment you posted would not be able tell a child that a homosexual lifestyle was acceptable?

budwieser 28-02-2011 19:44

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35184049)
They weren't asked to say that homosexuality is a "good thing", so that is a bit of a straw man statement......

What they actually said was I wonder if the person who stated the comment you posted would not be able tell a child that a homosexual lifestyle was acceptable?

" I would sincerely hope that NOBODY is talking to children about Homosexuality being an acceptable lifestyle.!:mad::td:

Let them make their own choices when they`re old enough and wise enough and have experienced life for quite a few years!

Maggy 28-02-2011 19:47

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Again I would like to point out that I believe their ages should have been the main issue.

Paul 28-02-2011 19:51

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
Title amended. Disagreeing with a homosexual lifestyle does not make someone Homophobic. I dont believe their religion had much to do the decision either.

martyh 28-02-2011 19:52

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35184156)
Again I would like to point out that I believe their ages should have been the main issue.

I disagree ,for short term fostering they would be ok ,plenty of grand parents do the same work

Maggy 28-02-2011 20:05

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35184159)
I disagree ,for short term fostering they would be ok ,plenty of grand parents do the same work

That's being a grandparent, not fostering.I'm 58 myself and I think 65 is too old.

martyh 28-02-2011 20:07

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35184178)
That's being a grandparent, not fostering.I'm 58 myself and I think 65 is too old.


Maybe ,depends on the child realy i think ,as you are aware some children need a lot more looking after than others

Gary L 28-02-2011 20:09

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35184158)
Title amended. Disagreeing with a homosexual lifestyle does not make someone Homophobic. I dont believe their religion had much to do the decision either.

Reading the story I'd say they think it's the main factor. them being Christian and having them views as a Christian.

Maggy 28-02-2011 20:21

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35184181)
Maybe ,depends on the child realy i think ,as you are aware some children need a lot more looking after than others

Statistically children in foster care tend to have far more traumatic experiences than most and many are as a result likely to have challenging problems and issues.I think that in that case fostering is for younger fitter parents.This is not being ageist just pragmatic.;)

martyh 28-02-2011 20:41

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35184192)
Statistically children in foster care tend to have far more traumatic experiences than most and many are as a result likely to have challenging problems and issues.I think that in that case fostering is for younger fitter parents.This is not being ageist just pragmatic.;)

I bow to your greater knowledge Maggie;)

anyone know any foster parents for my too brats according to them i am officially an oldie :D

Ramrod 28-02-2011 21:17

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35184192)
Statistically children in foster care tend to have far more traumatic experiences than most and many are as a result likely to have challenging problems and issues.I think that in that case fostering is for younger fitter parents.

But (usually) with age comes greater wisdom?

Digital Fanatic 28-02-2011 23:07

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
I think it was rest bite care they wanted to do.

The danger here is that they could potentially be unsupportive to a child that may think they were gay.

They are applying to work for the local council, and in that they come under the laws of employment.

Maggy 28-02-2011 23:28

Re: Court backs decision to bar Homophobic Christian foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35184237)
But (usually) with age comes greater wisdom?

Well maybe but it's not just wisdom that's required it's a certain amount of stamina as well.It has to be said that sometimes with age comes great inflexibility both physically and mentally.
In other words the older one gets the more set in one's way.

I'm not saying that it's impossible for older people to be foster parents I'm just saying that age as well as certain attitudes can make for a poor combination and their inability to embrace new ideas are possibly because of their age.

TheDaddy 01-03-2011 05:43

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
It's always the children that suffer with these decisions, same with the Catholic adoption agencies, I am sure the children in care get a lovely warm feeling inside knowing that they are better of in care than with a loving family...

Maggy 01-03-2011 07:55

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35184318)
It's always the children that suffer with these decisions, same with the Catholic adoption agencies, I am sure the children in care get a lovely warm feeling inside knowing that they are better of in care than with a loving family...

Actually the image of a child staying with one foster family all the way through their childhood isn't the case for many.Not only can they be moved from one home to another at a moments notice they can be moved from their school right across counties,indeed hundreds of miles from where they were.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11567058
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8695642.stm

Chris 01-03-2011 08:10

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35184345)
Actually the image of a child staying with one foster family all the way through their childhood isn't the case for many.Not only can they be moved from one home to another at a moments notice they can be moved from their school right across counties,indeed hundreds of miles from where they were.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11567058
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8695642.stm

That kind of misses Daddy's point - the fewer foster caters there are, the more children will have to be cared for in Tracey Beaker style orphanages. Having several sets of foster carers is far from ideal, but growing up in a children's home is even less so.

Sadly we have a situation in this country where the branch of the State that is responsible for children's care has a deep-seated institutional belief that it knows best, to the exclusion of all other thoughts and opinions. In this case that belief now appears to have the backing of case law, which is very unfortunate indeed.

What has happened here is uncomfortably close to defining something as a thought crime IMO. Tolerance of a contrary view or lifestyle does not have to extend to approval of or agreement with that view. So far as we can see, this couple had nothing else against them as far as being foster parents goes. Smply the possibility that if asked, they would be unable to agree with the State's approved view on one aspect of morality. And because of that, there may now be other parents or carers who don't get badly-needed respite care due to there being too few short-term foster caters available.

Maggy 01-03-2011 08:20

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35184350)
That kind of misses Daddy's point - the fewer foster caters there are, the more children will have to be cared for in Tracey Beaker style orphanages. Having several sets of foster carers is far from ideal, but growing up in a children's home is even less so.

Sadly we have a situation in this country where the branch of the State that is responsible for children's care has a deep-seated institutional belief that it knows best, to the exclusion of all other thoughts and opinions. In this case that belief now appears to have the backing of case law, which is very unfortunate indeed.

What has happened here is uncomfortably close to defining something as a thought crime IMO. Tolerance of a contrary view or lifestyle does not have to extend to approval of or agreement with that view. So far as we can see, this couple had nothing else against them as far as being foster parents goes. Smply the possibility that if asked, they would be unable to agree with the State's approved view on one aspect of morality. And because of that, there may now be other parents or carers who don't get badly-needed respite care due to there being too few short-term foster caters available.

I haven't missed the point at all.I'm pointing out that the whole system is if not broken at least out of alignment and that the challenges in being a foster parent should not be underestimated.
I agree about the possible short sightedness in this couple's case but it may not have been the 'only' factor.Age may well have been an unstated reason.

Chris 01-03-2011 08:41

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
While I'm no expert on the procedures involved, I suspect "unstated reasons" would be irregular, if not outright unlawful. I'm not sure you have any basis for that supposition.

Maggy 01-03-2011 10:14

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35184369)
While I'm no expert on the procedures involved, I suspect "unstated reasons" would be irregular, if not outright unlawful. I'm not sure you have any basis for that supposition.

You and I can't prove that it can't or won't happen however unlawful.They can and have discriminated on the grounds of smoking,weight,incorrect race in the past.I'm also pretty sure that age has played a part in the past though now age discrimination is now suppose to be an issue of the past and it may be that old habits die hard.

Personally I do think 65 is too old though.Religious and personal differences shouldn't weigh especially in short term fostering.

Chris 01-03-2011 14:44

Re: Court backs decision to bar foster couple
 
No, religious differences should not - but the High Court has ruled that they do, and that is a very significant development.


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