Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I always thought that the Iron Lady was the worst PM this country has ever had, I now say that the Odd Couple of Cameron and Clegg are worse that the old lady.

Since the coalition started between these puppets of misery, Unemployment has soared up, the UK is being stripped of all services, the police forces all over the UK are being stripped to the bare minumum.

The poor, disabled, NHS is being hit severely, and now they are divided on how we are to vote in future, I will vote for who l want, and l wont be told who to vote for.

We have now a new benefit system that will hit everyone,. They say that there is plenty of work out there, WHERE.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Oh, Arthur - where to begin.....

They are not telling you who to vote for, just giving you a second/third choice (that you don't have to fill in).

Re the police/NHS - we are going back to 2006 levels of spending; I don't remember you saying how awful the levels of policing/health cover were back then (mind you, it was a Labour government, so you wouldn't have, would you?).

Re the benefits shake-up - it stated in today's Times that it would negatively affect 1.7 million claimants, but that 2.7 million would get more; how is that "hitting everyone"?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

RE voting ,Arthur ,they are going to give us a referendum on how we vote ,that means we get a choice in the most basic way possible in a democracy ,how can you see that as a bad thing ,the rest of your post is just the usual working, class labourite drivel

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Someone has to clear up the mess and pay the bills that the last lot left us ALL with.... and it's going to be tough.

So tough that short memories will allow THAT lot to be re-elected again.

Ad Infinitum

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Given that she's renowned as one of the best ever it's a shame that those two don't have her testicles.

All about the point of view. For example how do you rate the previous PM?

EDIT: Hey Arthur - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...rime_Ministers

Thought you'd get a kick out of that. You may hate Thatcher but much of what she did was essential and many of her improvements have been completely undone with the creation of the client state by Labour.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

LOL!

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I was young in the days of Thatcher, and l would not wish anyone to be in that time, she was cruel, she conned the public into voting for her, then we got kicked in the teeth, like what is happening now.

Does the Poll tax riots remind you of the students riots what happened several weeks ago - yes, We have the start of major problems under C & C, That we had under Thatcher,.

I might be moaning about what is happening now, But of my mates are now in fear of there jobs, due to these puppets.

I have a special needs son who is cared for by my wife, and she has been told that her benefit will be cut - how can they have the damn nerve to say that they care for the people of this country - funny, Thatcher said that too.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

You are mistaken, Arthur - Carers in receipt of Carers Allowance will not be part of the Universal Benefit.

btw, "she conned the public" - three times!

btw2 - your mates are in fear because of the mess left behind by your beloved Labour, which needs to be cleared up.[/QUOTE]

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Once by using a war.:)

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Worked for her (and for Blair).....

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I am in the same boat in regards to this, but what i want to say is all the governments are all the same and in it for themselves. They do not give a damn about the common people as they have mostly never had to think where is the money coming from for this and that bill ( also having to scrimp and save for most things ). Some of the things that they are saying is good but 90% is not, i remember Maggie Thatcher as where i grew up and still live is recovering from the pits been closed down ( also the head of the NUM headquarters ).

P.S If you do not know where i mean watch the film BRASSED OFF and R.I.P PETE P:(

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Sigh..... Yes Bliar and his cohorts were so good at what they did weren't they? They not only managed to put right all those nasty Tory wrongs perpetrated by Thatcher et al that they'd spent years whining about. They put an end to sleaze, ceased the evil privatisation programme, brought effective control to the Square Mile, developed our economy away from it's reliance on financial services, city fat cats and the like and built stable footings on which it grew. I suppose that rather than spitefully destroying all the wonderful work Bliar and Co did our new govt. ought to be thanking them for such a positive inheritance and making their lives soooo much easier.... :rolleyes:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I loathe Thatcher for one thing Arthur, what she did with regards to housing. Something the government since massively exacerbated by advocating using homes as some sort of bank.

The governments reflect their constituents, right now the biggest group, and the one with most of the wealth, is the baby boomers, so inevitably governments are elected which reflect that agenda.

That's my main bugbear at the moment, and one this government, the London Assembly and my own Borough are doing what they can to continue as the status quo. Not surprising given they are from that generation.

I've been reading The Pinch and having what is basically a campaign against affordable housing in this area shoved in my face, with the response to my saying it's unfair and noting that all the campaigners pictured are the same old generation being that if I want reasonably priced housing I should move to Croydon, because clearly only earning 6 figures shouldn't entitle me to be able to purchase one of the houses one of them would have purchased for a fraction of the real cost and could never in a million years afford now.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Lets put it this way for you, in a easy to swallow form, Arthurgray50. When the conservatives left office in 1997, the Uk as a whole had no repeat NO, out standing debt + was making more money that it was spending through it system of checks & balances FACT! Most don't like to hear this, as most liked the way labour spend & borrowed more than we had it way (UK) into 21st century. This was by handing out money to lazy social misfits, council tax & rent etc more each time, till the present government put a cap on it coming in this April... A Maximum of £500 GBP per week including benefits, to me that still too much for their sorry lazy as*es . Moaning about how there nothing out there, but jobs going from there own door step!!!
With amount of some travel.:mad:

With most people like myself (full time paid worker) whom have to work to pay, full medical bills, full price mortgage, council tax, fuel (petrol), food prices, clothing + footwear, whole household items, heating (gas), electric bill... did I miss something? tell me :o:
All this on a national wage per hour after NI + income tax in my pay packet :dozey:
======================
Then you see these lay-abouts moan about how the price of the packet of fags has gone up, effecting there amount of pints down the pub they will be able to get or the amount of cases of can they will be able to get from the local corners shop on a normal day.
# Not forgetting free child care for the lazy single mothers (some) that seam to pop out another child just before the oldest is 16yr to keep her current above rising social payments. Plus to keep her current household when the oldest moves out.

# Even a social grant you can get to fill your now new rented abode with house hold goods over & over everytime you move.

# Finally even not forgetting the ones to that can afford to smoke booze, run a household & then run a car on top of all that but still on the social... makes me sick!!! Its a well known fact as benefits payments stand at moment (till April 2011), you are better off than working & yes it's been like this for over 10yrs with Labour in short distant past splashing the cash around :td:

Not all unemployed people are the same, some are there from downsizing from there last employment, it's how the job market works these days - my best of luck to those fair mannered persons looking.;)
======================
All the coalition is doing is servicing the loan payment/s+ %interest that the last government handed to us. The last government spent it now we have to pay it back now, (like a personal loan) while previous lot lining there pockets with cream/interest off the money they made of us all in the boom years, put in a place of safe keeping. Labour could have paid off a fair size piece off the government borrowing with money they made in profits from other investments, but they didn't - all they did was to spend it creating a all high time record of number of government based employees/not so ground breaking ideas .

We know them as paper pushers/file clerks/red tape/health & safety/officers of slowness/burdened on our taxs/ lazy g*ts (whom couldn't get the same job in the private sector, as they didn't have what's required of the job).

With the cuts, coming Arthurgray50@blu will only go down to 2003 levels of public sector numbers + budget.
One thing that going to come to a head is top/mangers pay packets, the amount there getting too much from the beginning, that why the government is going to turn these fat cats pay wage to the public view, councils for example are 3x over staffed at top level.

#I know from many sources (direct from) in my local council depot, there's 4 work mangers (day to day jobs) they come in by 08:00 am only hand out work sheets & sign off work orders by 10:30am there finished, most go home till/arrive 3:30pm at the depot to wait for the front line workers to come back after a hard day graft, to sign off the remainder job sheets (4 times a year stock take) come 5:00pm it's all over for the day. If you what to contact them from 10:45am - 3:30pm you won't get an answer for your life, there's no one there. But they get paid to work direct from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm no break nor home visits (less lunch 1hr) This costs (each) over £24,000 after tax to do sweet fanny nothing...:shocked: but push paper work around.
======================
Simple answer; Arthurgray there lots of work out there you have to go & look of it, not the other way around. As with youths of today, they think that you(employer) owe them a job not you have to apply for it, it's the same story every year when the lack luster school system puts out a new batch of half finished/educated youthful young adults into the the work force. Yes they may have A's/B's/C's even a few A* in subjects, but here's the important question, when all the technology breaks down or doesn't work can they cut the cream with us old timers with basic mathematics, english or common sense??
Not from what I've seen, they lack a big part in the basic skill set, imperial is one of them. Imperial is still used as much today as the yesterday years, as with basic sums with a pen/pencil & paper or fractions of the top of there head without any form of tech. We old timers could work out all the above + more by the time we left our schooling years.
======================
Well the funny thing about the police forces in the UK is that they've stopped catching the important crimials & went to filling quoter/s each month/s to suit the past government (labour) war on crime- asbo's for example.
Then started to cut back on front line staff+ fill the back rooms/buildings full of paper pushers that dish on spot fines for, the small ill-important items in normal life eg; littering.... wait a minute isn't that a councils job pick up the litter?
Over the years (since labour) the pay of the middle management/top has gone up, the front line staff have been at a crossroads ever since with all the human right & health + safety matter in there job... it all costs money. More red tape more it costs to process a person. Hence that why these bloated police forces are so over budget since middle management has had the keys to the money pot. "Stripped to the bare minimum" they need to be, then with the savings they can put more front line staff on show like say they do - but they don't ! No person needs to paid more than there worth, in today's world - as if one doesn't like it, there another person behind willing to take the job to put food on the table. :)
======================

I think I've said enough, but I will if needs be Arthurgray50 - get with the programme for heavens sake!

You have view, air it here :)
toonlight

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

The UK did have debt toonlight but no budget deficit - it was getting paid back and continued to be getting paid back until a chancellor who decided he'd abolished the economic cycle continued spending like it while encouraging people to borrow in lieu of saving in order to consume capriciously and keep the economy going.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I think that i will leave this thread alone now as getting too heated:erm:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

It's all down to money in the end of day, the people that are retired & now needing the money for keep now even the same (people) ones that got the housing market in this state, over heating the market - prices!
It's well known with council tax it goes up but never goes down so there a big clue to where, the housing boom got us - a sticky place, should I or should I not. They all want to make a profit in end of the day not a big loss. (Which most likely said do when interest rates go up & public sector cuts come into effect) It's said that house prices need to go down another @15% to balance the whole market out, not the other way (up).

Well, the campaign may work but will be there down fall when the area housing market goes bang when all the buyers dry up or people start to lose there over priced homes after no-one able to afford the rates etc.It's only going to take one part of the market to drop, then it going to go bang much bigger this time - this time the government won't even cover any mortgage payments, just the people that have spent well + broke, just paying off the interest on the mortgage to perosons that are able to pay the maximum total each month with their own cash not credit card or loan.

It was the people that over borrowed in the first place + over spent on a over priced property in the first place that going sink us all, not now but the coming future for all of us.

Well as well as the yester-years home buyers they bought at market prices, as with home buyers now, no thing stays still for too long in any format. Well if you can only afford to buy a home there & is looking -you got two choice go + buy or wait.With waiting your playing a 50/50 chance, that house price may go up to much for you to even get a mortgage at that time & given that you have to raise 25% of the sum to get some mortgages you'll be hard pressed.

It's been the same for years even decades, everyone agrees that we need more housing, but once it's on someone doorstep - they don't want it any where near them full stop, key to getting any new development is to
rip the boundary's of the class system (wealth) up in the area. Yet these same people moan about lack of services in area at the same time, where a few extra houses would make business sense to start to run services after people have moved in. It comes down to access, road network & area of land taken up for the development on paper.

tonlight

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Isn't the borrowing all the money we did in the first place (labour) did the most damage, after all labour did have highest number of public sector jobs on record by borrowing to pay these same striking persons?
Yes I know borrowing has to done, but not at Labours levels, then spend more again for the rest to keep it a float. All the borrowed money comes at price, it has to be paid back at % interest over the sum borrowed hence inflation rate :dozey: Anyhow who came in to power after labours time would have to make deep cuts to pay back the money that the past government paid out to keep the UK's economy afloat, after the stock market dip.

As they say "what goes up, has to come down" so we are in a come down period from a all time high borrowing spree - loans have to paid back. Book/spending has to be balanced or less than your paying back to your creditors, just think of it like a personal loan. (it's near the same thing but much larger)

toonlight

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Oh no argument just thought I'd mention we weren't debt free. Yes we are coming back from an all time high borrowing spree - both publically and privately.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

No argument from me here too Ignitionnet, good buddy :D Your point is well taken, I stand corrected. We are all human after all :drunk::Peaceman::waving::handshake Quicker we get our spending under control better we will be long term. The unnecessary spending needs to stop, red tape slashed & throw out anything "PC" in all walks of life.

toonlight

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I would just like to add that in my view there is the worst of the housing crash still to come as people mainly young first time buyers who maxed out their income and credit on a house that is way past their income level start having houses repossessed because they cannot sell at the price they need to clear debt/mortgage and downsize to a more affordable home

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I have never heard so much crap in all my life, When l was out of work two years ago, I was sent for interviews at jobs that pay £16.000 grand per year and there were some 40 people for the interview for one job.

There is no work out there for a decent hard working person that pays well, all this crap from the government that there is work, is talking out of there hat.

The unemployed are just a number to the job centre, there are people out there that have been made redundant, that are now regarded as too old for a job.

Unemployed HAS GONE UP since the coalition stepped, WHY, they work for the sectors that have stripped there staff, due to budget cuts.

I work for a company and have been told, in a few months l too can be made redundant. Why don't people get real, The whole damn country is in a downhill spiral, you don't know if you have a job, or even a public service.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I would agree with that :sleep:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

a) Labour were in power two years ago, Arthur - not even you can hold the Tories responsible for that
b) I think we know if we have a job or not, don't you?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

And who was in charge 2 years ago Arthur?

You really are in denial...

(And I don't mean that watery thing that flows into the Mediterranean)

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Coalition came into power in May of last year Arthur.

Not the fault of government and not entirely under their control. We're not a communist state where the economy is entirely under government control.

Incidentally I get paid reasonably well and work hard and would like to think I'm decent. If you want to blame anyone for low wages I'm afraid it's globalisation, Labour's immigration policy and the baby boomer generation - which you're a part of. The immigration was actually to try and offset the bulge in the baby boomers as they need people to pay their pensions, however it does mean increased supply of labour so lower salaries. Unfortunately in lower skilled jobs the pressure and competition is strong.

If you took no opportunity to increase your skills this is entirely your own doing, no-one is entitled to a well paid job, if you had no opportunity I am extremely sorry to hear that but I don't know why you think you should be paid more than others by default. You may work hard but so do many other people - up to you to show what you can do that means you should get more money.

I would hope that isn't the case but no doubt some element of the unemployed being a number is true.

Something to do with a recession. Recessions mean job losses, this one has actually been relatively light on the job losses due to high public sector employment.

Employment rates go up and down Arthur, would have thought you'd have been alive long enough to know that, full employment is a socialist fantasy. Japan tried to keep employment high, their economy is a mess.

Very few people can be guaranteed a job. You are completely exaggerating about public services. Go complain to your council about those, they're the ones cutting front line services while keeping their highly paid co-ordinator and consultant positions going.

Labour tried to give everyone a job in public service.

That worked.

Communist North Korea and China are to the east and a touch to the south. Seems they would suit your expectations of a job for life and cradle to grave entitlement better.

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

Thanks for that Hugh. I did wonder why I spent 11 hours today without a break stuck on my computer taking high level support escalations and working through faults.

---------- Post added at 20:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------

You could be right but they didn't have much choice.

The real pain is that this housing will likely be sucked up by BtL investors.

Facts for the day - a higher % of people between 50 and 65 own a second home than people under 35 who own at all.
Owner-occupation is dropping due to inability of people who actually want a home to live in to buy one.

I had a nice leaflet through the door for a Borough Council pleasing low-rise apartment building as they have banned anything over 3 floors - 2 beds start at only £349,995. Nice easy starter home that.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

To a certain extent that is correct with the price of a house ,but they didn't have spend every available penny on expensive renovations i.e conservatories or have 2 holidays abroad or buying 2 expensive cars every three years all of which was mostly on credit that was unsustainable if one of the wage earners lost a job or had to take a fall in wages

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Roflmao, so Arthurgray says he's never heard so much crap in all his life. Perhaps he should try 'listening' to most of the garbage he 'speaks'. That way he might actually have some concept of what's trash and what isn't. I'm beginning to wonder if our old mate 'Arthur' isn't really Derek Draper or Damian McBride.... :D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Indeed. People want high income. They also want low costs. They also want full employment. Guess what? You can't have all three.

Companies need to make money, so if they are to pay UK wages, they may need to increase their prices. As soon as they do this, people start crying "rip off britain" and moaning about the high prices. So, the other option for the companies is to go abroad for their employees.

Of course, companies themselves are also to blame. They will go for whatever option keeps their costs low, while maximising profits.

Put simply, if we want well paid jobs, and full employment, we are going to need to pay increased prices for our products and services.

That's another thing that needs to drop. House prices. We all need somewhere to live, and for a lot of people, their mortgage repayments are a major part of their salary, and one that they will be paying for up to 25 years.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Good luck with that. Developers have to get God, Allah, Vishnu, Buddha, the Prophet Mohammed and their great-great-great-great-grand mother to sign in blood in triplicate to be allowed to build, and even then the usual suspects, 50-something home-owning NIMBYs, pop up to have a good whine.

Current complaint source here is http://trag-sos.moonfruit.com/# - you see what I mean about the demographic in the protest photos.

Streetview here.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

You won't be saying that when you're 50 something and your home is your pension... ;)

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I am 54, and my home isn't my pension - it's my home (and hopefully will be for another 30 odd years, and then it will pay for nursing home costs....;)).

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Hah - I gave up on the prospect of owning a home a while ago. My pension is two personal schemes, one through work and one completely private.

I didn't heed Gordon Brown's advice to treat mortgage equity like a savings account :)

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I sure hope so 'cos I don't want to be paying them for you ;)

Seriously though, there are plenty of people for whom their main, if not sole, investment is their home. With poor interest rates, volatile stockmarkets and uncertainty wrt pensions in the long term is it any wonder we have the housing market we do?

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ----------

But prudent Gordon broke the cycle of boom and bust and saved the world...... Anyway, if you do become desperate you can always sell off a load of gold, raid someone else's pension fund and start printing money... :D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Blimey Arthur if you think that the current two are already worse than Thatcher was in her entire ten years you are going to be apoplectic in a few years calling them the spawn of Satan.
Love her or hate her how you can compare their records at such an early stage is frankly laughable.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Well from next year April we all workers will have to pay something to our own pensions, though our wage packet on top of our NI & income tax deductions- as we all living longer. To put the scene in light, there more over 85yrs persons than there was 25yrs ago. :shocked::D

toonlight:o:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Well the Liberal Democrate were know as the 'Lib Dems' now they are in the pockets of the Conservatives, I heard them refered as the 'Con Dems' which seems to sum up what thay are doing to the country.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

It is indeed rather ironic they clamp down on benefits during a period of high unemployment, as I imagine the timing many people will see through the claims there is work out there. But lets make no mistake they on a mission and wont stop at anything, one reason these are been rushed through so brutally is that the tories are only in power on a knife edge, they could easily lose again in the next election. So they squishing it all in 4 years. Obviously on the voting system its in their interests to maintain FPTP, imagine having an election where you no longer guaruantueed 100s of seats. Poor lord ashcroft would have to fund campaigns everywhere instead of just the few areas that have a say in democracy. Labour in the same boat also, they would fight to keep FPTP as well.

The policy is clear to see and its a policy of survival of the fittest. capitalism in its pure form is just about that, the fittest work, get money and can get very rich from doing so. Those at the bottom are told to be independent to not rely on the state and as such get lost in the system. Cutting the public sector is so taxes can be reduced and the most well off are the prime beneficiaries, lower paid workers will initially think they gaining but then will lose out on the public services impact. Consumption taxes push up inflation, and is another way of making people feel richer than what they are, people pay less income tax and think they richer as a result, they are until they buy something at inflated prices. To say they worse than thatcher I cant comment on tho as I was very young then, I do remember a few things tho, like the milk been taken away from schools, like waiting in a hospital an entire day to get a broken arm treated, that hospital had 100s of people waiting sitting on the floor in a big room, it was like crowded medical areas you see in some tv shows during war etc. What I dont remember is when things were really bad in the early 80s as I was a toddler. Thatcher's success was skewed by the fact she had north sea oil subsidising revenues and very nearly lost power quickly if it wasnt for the falklands war.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Cutting the public sector is to get it to the stage where taxing a mere 40% of the entire country's income will be sufficient to pay the bills. There are no prospects at all of any significant tax cuts.

What's wrong with tax cuts anyway? Lowering tax rates can increase state income as well as decrease it? Are you saying that the income tax cut for the less well off, a totally politically motivated cut, is wrong because it denies the state their money?

How dare the fittest work and get money and potentially get rich from doing so. Perhaps we should all be mindless, unexceptional bricks in the wall paying huge swathes of our income to the state to redistribute as it sees fit. What a punishment for excelling and bettering oneself.

---------- Post added at 23:29 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

Well no, we're paying the pensions of all those public sector workers on tasty final salary schemes that won't see light of day again, and the public pensions of those who were promised the state would look after them while it spent their pension contributions on whatever was politically expedient.

We should not expect a penny from the government towards our retirement, the baby boomers have spent it all.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I have paid into company/personal pensions since the age of 26. ;)

I don't expect the state to keep me.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

This thread is started to get heated, I am entitled to my views, I have been on this earth for 59 years, I have gone through a life of hell via different governments, wether its Labour or Tories, Whatever decision is made is supposed to be for the benefit of the voters.

We are NOT getting it, I went through the miners stike, where we had power cuts, every damn thing, going up the motorway and watching miners getting attacked by the own people for trying to put food on the table with no money.

Then l went through the poll tax riots and had fueds with residents across the road, as they had a cheaper band than us, I got taken to court for standing up for my rights.

Now we have a situation where we have the Tories ripping this country to pieces, where they are having budget cuts, and NOW today we hear that they are sacking members of our armed forces, We also having further budget cuts to police services in some forces ON top of pervious cuts.

This is being done by TORIES, NOT A LABOUR government, and yet we hear where TORY councillors are spending thousands on finding way of CUTTING services.

I might wing BUT this is FACT, the Tories and LIBS Dems, have broken there promises in the elections. There will be trouble ahead for this country.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Doesn't seem heated to me, Arthur. Also, no one has said that you are not entitled to your views.

This is a debate on a discussion forum. Some people will agree with you. Some people will disagree with you. No one is trying to stifle you.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

But while there's moonlight and music and love and romance... Let's face the music and dance.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Can't please everyone all the time, to some if they aren't happy no-one can be. Age doesn't cure egocentrism and infact can make it worse. If people think they have entitlements they will be unhappy if they aren't being fulfilled.

This thread isn't particularly heated just repetitive and part of a string of similar ones.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

***trivia alert****

apparently according to a holywood legend RKO pictures said Fred Astaire couldn't act ,couldn't sing ,can dance a little

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Astaire insisted that the comment was "Can't act. Slightly bald. Also dances".

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Oh do give over.:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 07:25 ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 ----------

I see Cameron has become the first Western leader to visit Egypt after Mubarak's overthrow - publicly it is flagged up as a stateman visit to express support for the nation state. What isn't being publicised widely is that he has taken 6 arms companies with him to talk to the army - because of course more weapons is what the starving of Egypt need.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Sorry if my providing notes of a number of surveys showing the high regard Thatcher is held in by some didn't go down to well. :)

She certainly polarised opinion like no-one else for sure.

Politicians pimping arms is disgusting though. That needs to be publicised as widely as possible and it politely suggested that Cameron deal with rather more pressing things at home than whoring himself to arms companies.

---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 ----------

Arthur - it seems the US Treasury Secretary disagrees with you.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Complete and utter unsubstantiated rubbish from you as usual. :rolleyes:

Still failing to comprehend and see the bigger picture. Thirteen years of Labour rule is why you are se....

...Actually, you know something I ain't wasting my time explaining things and discussing things (It's not even a discussion, as you gob off a little and then disappear) with you any more Arthur, you take no notice of what anyone actually says to you any way.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Couldn't stand Thatcher and like ignitionnet despaired at the sell off of council houses. However during that lengthy conservative era our basic standard of living was much higher.

In 1996 a large detached 7 bedroomed house in a sought after area was valued at £165,000. In 2002 the same house was valued between £365,000 and £450,00 eventually selling for £400,000 for redevelopment in 2004. So the majority of the boom in house prices took place during a Labour Government.

To all the NIMBYS who complain about new housing going up in an area. The fact is new housing pushes prices in existing areas up, as large developments mean improvements in services.

Just because there isn't a job available does not mean people should just do nothing. Perhaps they should see what is needed in an area and start a business instead, especially if they see their age is against them. As to be fair on employers they have little incentive to take on someone who will retire in a couple of years, yet those self same people have a wealth of knowledge and experience they can hand on.

I do appreciate not everyone has the get up and go to do this, but without such enterprise there will NEVER be enough work for those who want it. As creating public sector non jobs does nothing for exports and has got us in the current mess.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

labour got us in this mess, fact.

and in regards to special needs children etc, not too sound harsh or offensive but whose child is it Arthur ? yours or the rest of the countries, if you rely on state benefits perhaps you should not have had children? it is unfair to expect everybody in this country to support YOUR child isn't it ?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Erm, being part of society means, imho, helping those less able, and less able to help themselves.

btw, Arthur is working.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Awesome post and all the more poignant because it's not from someone like me who prattles on endlessly about such things.

:clap:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

i agree hugh, but there is helping and there is being reliant...

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

handing and been reliant go hand in hand, for millions of people the state is a lifeline.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Because it was enlarged and crowded out other resources, where previously family, friends, neighbours, communities and indeed the people themselves did things the state stepped in and took over.

What we consider as essential services now probably bears little resemblance to what was considered essential not that long ago.

As Angua noted also, for all this extra money being poured into the state from tax payers and debt, quality of life is perceived as lower now, and the inequality gap is untouched.

Seems to me that perhaps advocates of a smaller state may have a point. Those genuinely in need who are best served by the state and have no other recourse, fine, taking everyone's money to try and make what politicians think is the best use of that money is simply wrong.

A social safety net and essential municipal services which are best provided by government, it should be nothing more, ever, and certainly not the pervasive, intrusive monster it is right now.

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

You're perhaps being unfair there Pete, but you're also not entirely unfair. It does beg the question of if Arthur isn't happy with his lot in the life, the wages being offered for his labour, etc, he didn't attempt to better that lot rather than apparently expecting government to do so. Less skilled work inevitably will pay less and have more competition for it than more skilled positions.

Reliant is the wrong word, perhaps feeling entitled is more appropriate. However that is probably just what the man was told by certain more left-wing governments of past times. Pay your taxes and you will be looked after. Obviously it's a model that fell apart for demographic and other reasons.

Someone from the Baby Boomer generation or the one before is best suited to answer that one though - I'm from the later part of Generation X so was brought up with no expectations of such things ;)

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

indeed but that doesnt mean things were better long ago. In years gone more people died on the streets due to lack of state help. Or had a severely reduced quality of life if they managed to survive.

Telling people that society should look after itself is basically a survival of the fittest attitude and its looking like thatcher all over again mark II.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

The biggest irony is the company I work for did more to encourage home ownership amongst those normally disenfranchised (a true Thatcher ideology). Yet the latest Tory babies have taken away the support these people need to stay in their own homes by reducing mortgage interest relief and assuming a shared ownership mortgage is a 100% mortgage regardless of the amount of share. :fit: Oh & I live in an ex council house bought by the previous tenants.

Yes we should look after those who need our help and support and ensure they have the best quality of life possible. However we cannot as a country afford blanket care for all. Genuine need should be the overweening factor. Not simply lack of work or churning out child after child.

The problems have become worse because those who have no other issue except lack of work are taking from the benefit pot to the detriment of those who really cannot work. Sadly this government like others before them try to clamp down and use too crude a system to weed out the fakers.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Its more then that, libraries been closed, charities losing funding, legal aid cuts. social services.

home owners have had their fair share of help of the state also, artifically low interest rates for their benefit as well as the state making deals with banks to stop repossessions.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Charities shouldn't be getting funding from the government anyway. Rather goes against the point of being a charity.

Libraries are in no small part the doing of councils, used to being awash with money they are horribly mismanaging it now, cutting front line services inappropriately while leaving their diversity teams and EU liaisons employed.

Legal aid is fundamentally flawed and needs looking at from top to bottom.

Interest rates were set as they were for the benefit of the government, not home owners. The man who saved the world Gordon Brown abolished boom and bust so interest rates could stay low, no need to save actual cash as asset value, for those who actually owned property, would continue to rise.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Indeed because like the last time, Labour left a massive hole in the nations pot, that some how needed repaying, so MT and co were left to clear up the mess by the then previous Labour Administration.

Seems to me that every time Labour get into power, they spend like crazy and without absolutely any consequence.

Labour lost power at the last election leaving a whopping £159.8 billion record deficit and there is no escaping that this has to be repaid and thus cuts have to be made, unpopular as they can be and will be, they are cutting spending for certain things for a big big reason.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

IF, Cameron and Clegg had there way EVERYTHING in this country would be in private hands, so they would get a little comission out of it, recently, in the media it was claimed that FOUR of there big funding friends, actually owned the companies that would benefit from this privately run companies.

If you thought of BUPA which is a brilliant run health company, running the NHS, what do you think would happen.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Either put up or shut up, Arthur - provide a link to your claim about their "big funding friends", or we will treat it as one of your usual nonsensical rambles.

If BUPA did run the NHS, but the provision to the patient was still free, would you have an issue with that?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

and yet the worst of her "reign of terror" came toward the end of her premiership

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

I was listening to some economist type interviewed the other day and he said the gold sale put of the recession by 2 years and may of even adverted a depression, despite the rubbish price Gordo got for it...

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Is there any wonder Brown wanted a buy now, pay later society? With large portions of the electorate eyes off the ball doing just that on a personal level he believed he could get away with it on a national scale and thereby secure his place at the head of the trough for the forseeable future. It was events in the US that prematurely brought his house of cards down around our ears and laid bare the pathetic reality of his so called 'prudence'. 'Prudence' we're starting to appreciated the true cost of!

No matter what the Lib-Cons get up to during their tenure they're not the ones to blame for the mess we're in although they do share a degree of culpability, namely their abject failure to form an effective opposition. Had they done this we might just have had the good fortune to rid ourselves of New Labour before they'd had time to bleed us dry.....

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

But the gold was sold between 1999 and 2002, and according to the Guardian, the recession started in mid-2008.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I don't suppose he bought any of it did he? :D

Brown sold our gold to raise money to fund his massive spending without having it hit people where they'd immediately feel it and quite possibly react by voting for the other side. Gain with no pain! Buy now, enjoy the political kudos, pay later as usual. My real worry is that Brown and his ilk have done such severe damage to UK PLC this time around that we might just not be able to get out of it. Time will tell.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Expect an answer within the next 24 hours. ;)

Arthurgray50@blu Last Activity: Today 17:23: Last post in this thread today 17:23, yep it's become the norm for him to "Gob off" and then disappear.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Up yours, l don't gobb off then disappear.

You must all must be friends of the Tory party, for you to come out with that qoute.

I will put it this way, l don't give a damn who runs this country, but l want is a government is not going to give me hell, worry about my job, worry that the benefit that my wife gets, doesn't get halfed, the cost of living will go up, we will get hit very hard by this government and they have started already, no one seems to understand how bad it will get under this coalition.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Best not vote Labour then....

Anyway, Arthur, you going to answer my question then?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Can i just say the way it is going on here we all need to take a deep breath and learn to love each other.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2011/02/14.gif

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Hippy!

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Is that aimed at me:D:D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I know. I hate to see people picking on others :erm:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I am a lovelly lad really,.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I'm sure you are a lovely keyboard warrior :)

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

omfg typical "oh no my benefits..." no wonder you support everybody but the conservative your oh so precious benefits! what could you do without them! earn the money yourself!!! dont have children if u RELY on benefits to feed them!

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

In Arthurs defence ,he is working ,he is 50 something and if i remember right his wife is on disability

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

thats good, next step, LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS, everybody else has too dont just use disability as a meal ticket and free car..

things like benefits are always going to be under scrutiny so paying your bills with benefit money is not a good idea ?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

thats just about the most stupid statement i have read in a long time ,how do you knoe he isn't living within his means ,how do you know he has a car on disability and what the bloody hell are you supposed to do with benefits apart from pay bills ,or do you advocate not paying gas electric ect and going on the drink instead

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

not at all. it is common that almost all people claiming disability they have a mobility car (from what i have seen anyway) use your wage to pay bills ? i would not rely on paying my gas and electric bill with benefit money, would you ?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Yes if your out of work ,as you are ,what else are you going to pay them with that is what they are for ,to pay for food, clothing, heating .

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

erm, I have five registered disabled people who work in my department, and not one of them has a mobility car - epic fail on your part.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Both my parents are registered disabled as well. Neither of them has a mobility car.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

None of the disabled people I know have one.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

My mum's had one for about 20 years ...

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I think you also need to be on the highest rate to get a car as well.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I believe mobility you can either have the £50 or a car. if you have the £50 you use it to pay for transport costs.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I must admit, I have no idea about the mechanics of it (see what I did there?) ... but it has been a Godsend for her. She has very bad arthritis which began young and has become progressively worse. A car isn't a luxury for her, it's essential.

The car is replaced every 3 years so I reckon she's had maybe 6 of them by now. She has a Toyota Yaris at the moment. The first one was a Rover Metro IIRC.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

Gary, you are definitely correct on that, you either get the car or the cash but not both.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Here is how Motability works http://www.motabilitycarscheme.co.uk/main.cfm?Type=CHSW

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Indeed, although I can get a car soon I decided not to bother with one.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

indeed not everyone who would perhaps be entitled to help claims it, there is billions of unclaimed benefits each year.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Had the leaflet through recently on motability and am not claiming it as we don't really need it we live close to town and our able to get help if needed from family. As for Arthur's OP you just have to love him don't you and while i am so far not overly impressed with the current government i am prepared to give them a little longer before making a final judgement but one thing is for damn sure they havn't and i cannot see them anytime soon being worse then the last lot.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

I have a vague recollection that Arthur admitted to voting LibDem in the last election....now when was that post

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

He did, a number of times - claiming he had issues with the individual Labour candidate in his constituency.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Arthur's recommendation on the 3rd of May But he did state, on the 7th of April He's just a crazy mixed-up kid....:D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Looks perfectly reasonable to me. He's saying people should vote Labour in principle, unless they have a crap local labour MP/candidate as he has.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

It seems that the dangerous combination of being both crap and from Hounslow is what turned him off voting for her...

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Yes, but what l said then, has been proved right.

Cameron and Clegg are tearing this country to pieces with there budget cuts, and IF there was an election tomorrow, they would NOT get in.

Everyone is thinking, he is whinging again, But all l am saying is that there hard working people in this country, that want to work but cannot, becuase they are becoming unemployed with there jobs at risk, such as mine.

The benefit system is being taken the p''' off various people, the education system is now laying into decay with less funding, and the armed services are being stripped due to budget cuts.:(