superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Just called to cancel my services and was told that because i got a superhub that's a new 12 month contract, you don't need to sign any contract as if you use it then that count to accepting it

Robert

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I got sent a letter 2 days after receiving my Super Hub letting me know this, did you not get one?

I think it said you can cancel within 7 days, maybe more.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

its 28 days :)

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

says it on the t&c at the bottom of upgrade page
http://shop.virginmedia.com/existing...broadband.html

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

That's only if you are taking it out as a brand new service. Not if you are upgrading an existing installation

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

i had 20 went to 30 then 50 and both times a got a letter saying i had 28 days to cancel and both times i was told on the phone i had 28 days...

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

http://shop.virginmedia.com/money-back-guarantee.html

Money back guarantee: The 28-day money back guarantee is available for new customers and existing customers taking a new service.

Normal broadband upgrades are not counted as a new service, however 50Mbit I would think is due to the engineer install

Upgrading would normally only count as 7 working days as per Distance Selling Regulations

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

i said i HAD 20 then WENT to 30 then WENT to 50, never had another service other than internet and i was told time and tims again i had 28 days....

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Yes I am aware of what you just said as I can read it easily in your post above

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

I was not saying you were lying in what you said you were told, however whoever told you that was incorrect..

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-lega...es.html#paying
j5

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

That section has nothing to do with being recontracted - that's about price changes

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Thanks all it was just the fact that i was offered the upgrade without asking then i called up and posted here about being tied in and i was re-assured that i wasn't tied to a new contract (this was before i got the hub) and it was on my account .

Just should of not believed them (especially after reading posts about them).

Never got a letter to explain my new terms :rolleyes:

It was just a heads up to warn anyone caught out.

Thanks

Robert

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

What's the minimum period length if someone was to downgrade their package without incurring a charge? 1 month?

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

So virgin are misprinting every letter even the ones i get twice because idiots there put it through twice? (can i also point out its ok to send me something twice but if i want a paper bill its 1.50)

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

After 6 months of virgins 5-10mb service sold as 50mb service with no chance of getting 50mb again until maybe sometime in May (total service outage average Aug 2010 to May 2011???)

Due to "High Utilization problems (Virginspeak for we have oversubscribed the 50mb service in your area and have either cash or manpower problems and cant fix it for months.

I would not take out another 12 months if they gave me 6 months free!

Nice to know its not only me who has felt totally cheated.

Long Live BT fibre to the house I cant wait!

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Well i got 2 for each so you can have one of mine lol

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I am also confused regarding the new 12 month contract If I update my BB from 20 - 50 MB then new 12 month contract but I can add and remove tv channels eg sports and movies after 30 days

whats the difference as I am upgrading an existing product in both cases

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Because those are rules that Virgin set for the products

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

no disrespect ben but is there a written document regarding upgrades to back what you are saying.
i did see the T&C on the upgrade page but that only refers to XXL as far as i can tell

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

This is what I'm guessing the letter says:

We're pretty sure you'll be over the mood with your Virgin Media services! But if you decide to change your mind within the first 7 working days, simply fill in and return the "Right to cancel" letter tucked away with this letter and you can return to the way things were before. If you've added a new service, that new service is also covered by our 28 day money back guarantee, so if you wanted to go back to the way things were, that's no problem. Not that we think you'll want to of course!

This is the paragraph that is included in the letter sent to customers changing their existing services, which at the same time recontracts services

---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------

http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-30mb.html

Free Virgin Media Superhub for 30Mb, 50Mb and 100Mb: Available to all new broadband customers taking our 30Mb, 50Mb or 100Mb broadband services, and to existing customers upgrading to 30Mb, 50Mb and 100Mb broadband (subject to status and credit checks). Superhub provided free while you are a subscriber. £30 activation fee and new 12-month term applies to upgrades to 30Mb.

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

Also

http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-lega...tml#complaints

the minimum period that you must keep a service, starting from the service start date or such other minimum period as you have agreed with us. For example, unless you are told otherwise by us, you must keep the phone service, the television service and the broadband service for 12 months from the service start date in each case and, in the case of other services (including but not limited to premium television services, which period you will be notified of by Virgin Media Entertainment), for at least 30 days. We may change the minimum period for any service but this will not affect you if you have already subscribed to that service.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

but were is the T&C about the Right to cancel 7 working days for upgrades
as it can not be proved that the customer received the letter.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

That would be the law. Distance Selling Regulations for new contracts.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/...g-regulations/

If you want to dispute whether you got the written confirmation or not you can do so, but as you cannot prove on a phone call that you didn't receive any written confirmation, then it would have to be raised as a complaint.

The computer system also logs everytime written confirmation of a new contract term have been sent out

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

thats fine but what if you dont know the Distance Selling Regulations law
should it be law for V.M to put that in the the T&C.
or not
logging it on a computer is no proof that the customer recived it

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Virgin include information about the Right to Cancel everytime they sent out written confirmation of a contract.

That is the law, and is seperate to the Terms and Conditions of service which govern the day to day agreement between Virgin Media and the customer.

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Remember that the Virgin employee should also be making the customer away before they enter the contract, that that is what they are doing and give them the opportunity to decline before doing so.

Again, if someone says that hasn't happened, then an investigation would be made.

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

Never said, it was. But saying on the phone 'I never got it' isn't proof that you didn't. If there is dispute then it would have to be investigated.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

when i got my super hub and upgraded to 50Mb i had to sign the installers electronic pad so i signed for my contract.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

The signature on the pad is confirm you are happy with the work done. It's got nothing to do with the contract.

Distance Selling Regulations (again law of the land) do not actually require a written signature for a contract to be valid, because you have given verbal agreement, and requiring a signature before anything can proceed is impractical. Again this is based on all the legal obligations being fulfilled on the call, if they were not, then again a complaint can be raised

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I upgraded on Friday last week and received a letter informing me of the upgrade and the charges on my bill on Saturday.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

he didnt tell me that .

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

i received a letter the same as you.
but i did not sign any thing to say that i received it that my point no proof.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

You would have just signed the HDNL pad to confirm delivery nothing more.

If you received a contract like I did the is a copy for you to sign and keep but nothing to send back to Virginmedia.

As Ben has stated many times before by virtue of paying for your services you have accepted the new contract in the eyes of the law.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

hdnl didn't deliver an installer brought it round to my house
haven't paid for my upgrade yet as its not due.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I have not paid for mine until my next bill either, and I did see you mention the installers pad above even though I forgot in the above post.;)

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

It is however a balance of probabilities. If Virgin sent you something you did not want, then why allow it to be installed.

If you agreed to a new contract, but then didn't receive and written confirmation, why did you not contact Virgin and ask them to resend it.

Any dispute works both ways

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Well there is this, which protects the consumer and gives a great reason to allow installation/receipt of something you did not want or ask for:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/consu...olicited-items

If a company gives you something you didn't ask for it becomes legally an unconditional gift you can do whatever you want with and have no obligation to pay for. Free stuff, who could complain?

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

But we aren't talking about things that have not been asked for. We are talking about services that HAVE been asked for.

In any case, that can't apply to services, because there is no way to keep something that requires continual payment. You at most may be able to argue that you can keep the equipment, however that would then become useless

Finally Virgin don't just randomly set up accounts and send kit out. It is always on the basis of someone phoning up and requesting services, so that legislation wouldn't apply

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Your wording implied it was something he did not ask for by virtue of the words "If Virgin sent you something you did not want, then why allow it to be installed." That's assuming one would have the sense to not ask for stuff they did not want...

In response to that, if they gave me something I didn't ask for, I'd keep it simply because it is legally a freebie.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Right, so if an installer randomly turned up at your house and said 'I'm here to drill holes in your walls for something you didn't order' you would let them in?!

The unsolicited goods act is designed to stop thing such as the way Britannia Music Club would sent you a CD you hadn't ordered and didn't want and then said you have to pay for it.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Please read my wording carefully. "did not ask for" is not the same as "did not want". In either case we're not talking about an installer turning up to drill walls, we're talking about a Superhub, a physical unit that was either delivered in a box by a courier or an installer turned up to plug it in. That's how I interpreted the OP's statement anyway.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Right, and as I've already said multiple times now, if he wasn't informed as Virgin is legally required to do, that a new contract would start, then he has grounds to dispute the contract.
However it wouldn't just be cancelled without investigation. What would likely happen is that the account would be closed and EDFs charged until the investigation was completed. If it was found that the agent hadn't done all they were legally required to do the EDFs would likely be waived

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

If you ring up and request the upgrade then once you receive the kit and have it activated either by an engineer or as a self install then you have accepted the kit and the upgrade which in turn puts you into a new contract.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Hmm, an interesting read this 1. We upgraded to 50mb a couple of weeks ago now and very happy with the service ans for that sake alone I cant see us even thinking about wanting to cancel anything in the next 12 months. But in saying that I do recall the chat I had with with the retentions department.

We moved from a deal (double unlimited?) that we had been on for what, 2 1/2 years. Anyways the deal we got was for just the 50mb net and a phoneline with free weekend calls (the tv is retained free because it only has freeview channels anyways). We werequoted and being charged the standard price of £38.24pm (I think lol). But I asked at it was confirmed NO IT IS NOT A NEW CONTRACT. This would be on record by retentions and assumingly they are better qualafied to know these matters better than most departments?.

I'd say in our (and similar cases) cases it is correct and there is no new standing contract as it was said otherwise by retentions and never had a letter saying otherwise. Also as if it was reguarded as a new contract I'd have thought we would have been entitled to the first 6 months half price deal like all new contracts are at the moment.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Regardless of what they told you it all boils down to what is actually in the notes on your account.

The 6 months discount involves an 18 month contract term.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Yes but either it is or it is'nt a new contract in such cases. Your saying 1 thing others are saying something else. We in our case were told it's not a new contract at only at that point did we agree to the price quoted by retentions. And at no point since have we been informed that it is a new contract. As if it was mentioned prior to the price quoted by retentions that it was a new contract we would never have taken the deal as new customers get a far better deal at half price for 6 months reguradless of it being an 18 month contract over a 12 month one.

If we were lied to (and assuming the calls are stored we can prove this) upon changing our package then reguardless of what a company says I'm pretty sure there are laws to protect the consumer against misselling like this. There are countless examples of such misselling on other sites on a similar basis like may be the case here with mobile phone contracts were legally the quoted deal has to be honoured or cancelled reguardless of any mentioned cooling off period.

So as far as I'm concerned we have no new contract or we have a contract that legally has no valadity if such contracts were challenged. You may work for VM but if you check with the legal department I'm pretty sure in such cases the right of law is on the comsumers side with these matters.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Not all deals from Customer Relations are a new 12 month term.

However all deals that are recontracting throughout Virgin are advised on the phone and will be backed up with written confirmation

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Ok thanks for clearing that up. It sure does get confusing then when there seems to be so many different deals going about depending on how a customer wants to change there account that goes against or the complete opposite of what another customer is told. Prehaps therefor our deal was a no minimum contract period.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Agents on the phone don't have a choice in which bundles recontract or not, so everyone who go for the same deal will be recontracted or not in the same way

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I think Ben has already answered this as I left it to him as that his more his area.

Calls are not recorded except for training and quality purposes which is normally 2 calls per month per agent.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Just curious. How do VM manage to investigate what an agent did or didn't do or say, if they don't keep a record? Or even what a customer did or didn't say? As it might be a contract issue that ends up in court, they surely need evidence that meets a legal standard of proof?

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Because there are certain notes that have to be left on the system by agents to confirm they've advise of a new term etc.

Any disputes are usually resolved on a case by case basis.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I upgraded to Broadband XL (30).
The email inviting me to upgrade clearly says:

The email confirmation I received said:

Quote:

By taking another service your new 12 months contract covers all the services that make up your bundle offer at the new monthly charge we've agreed. Your new charges will start from your next bill. And just so you know, all the other terms and conditions of your original contract stay exactly the same. If you decide to change your mind within the first 7 days, simply fill in and return the 'Right to Cancel' form tucked away with your letter coming in the post and you can return to the way things were before. Your new additional service is also covered by our 28 day money back guarantee, so it you're not entirely satisfied with your new service, just give us a call. Not that we think you'll want to, of course!

The letter I received said:

Quote:

If you decide to change your mind within the first 7 days, simply fill in and return the 'Right to cancel' letter tucked away with this letter. If you've added this as a new service, that service is also covered by our 287 day Money Back Guarantee**...

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

287 day money back guarantee?

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Yes that is rather an odd number isn't it?

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

I'm not sure that notes left on a system by an agent amount to proof that he/she did what the notes say he/she did. But I won't worry about that unless or until I have to.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Remember, you only get put in a contract if you want to accept the offer. I upgraded from 20 to 50 before this offer came in, with free installation and a Superhub as was the offer of the day, but I had to pay activation. No contract though.

If you want to take the shilling get a contract. If not you can opt to pay the installation and activation. Not as good a deal as I got, but there you go. You could also wait until there is a better offer on, one that suits you, as I did.

That's the thing with offers, here today, new one tomorrow.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Can't see how you managed that. The act of placing the 50Mbit codes on the system recontract automatically.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Would he not be in contract simply for accepting and paying for the new tier of service?

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

That's what I mean. 50Mbit is a new 12 month term for everyone that goes on it. There is no way to stop this happening.

Same applies for 100Mbit

However the lower tier upgrades e.g 10 > 20 aren't usually new contracts

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

We would see this as a new work order with the upgrade details listed as well, thanks for the clarification Ben.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

Ah, forgot about this thread lol. But something I'm wandering about with reguards to records that are and are not kept.

So if a person phones virgin up asks agout an upgrade and an upgrade is done and they insinst at no point where they told that in having the upgrade done that it would be reguarded as a new contract (and I'm not talking in my case but in general). And if in fact they even asked about it and was told that it is not a new contract and the person on the phone confirms this. Then is this also not a legally binding agreement between to parties?.

Also in then a few months down the road there is issues and a custmer wants to change there package again on the understanding they can because they are not in contract, (and received nothing soon after an upgrade to suggest they are) to be told you cant becasue you are there starts a dispute right.

As said calls are not recorded even when they probably should for legal purposes if it's with reguards to a contractual matter in case of future dispute and evidence to support both sides is needed.

Reguardless of what virgins policy is and all that, under a court of law if all virgin media have to go on is information in a screen, have have no record of any call where any agreement was made by call. If they have deleted that call then they have deleted record of contractual agreement that they probably need to keep. So legally I'd be very surprised if only a record on a screen is binding when virgin delete all the customers side of any call which may be the only proof of what a customer has agreed to.

With nothing but a line or 2 on a computer screen to go on to say that each such dispute would be on a case by case basis and be investigated sounds like cloak and daggers as there is no way a call centre staff member will recall word for word what was said to and from customers many weeks or months ago, the same for installers. So how would any investigation be made, can we even have an example of how they work?.

If the only record being the call is not recorded, stored\deleted then there is no record to any customer agreeing to any new contract as virgin are admitting that they have deleted all records except what a call centre staff member who may be so busy to make mistakes has put on a system.

Sorry for that hope it makes sence to some having the same thought as me lol.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

A verbal contract is still a contract. Only problem is it would be difficult to prove in court one way or another. As in any case, all circumstances and factors will be considered.

Re: superhub ties you into new 12 month contract
 

If you rang up and asked for 30Mb and you agreed and they sent out a Superhub and you connected it had it activated used the service and paid for it thedn you would have agreed to the contract.

If you rang up for the movie channels and you got them watched them and paid for them then you have agreed to the contract.

The would be a work order and notes to support this plus 30Mb will only work once you call in and have the service activated by us so you would be aware of the upgrade.