Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

To the People of Great Britain,

As we are all painfully aware the situation of high unemployment and preference of government and business owners in hiring and providing employment to migrant workers over that of existing British citizens has reached a crisis point and given the policies of previous and current government, there is going to be no end to the problems faced nationally by the citizen workers of today and by the students who will enter the labour market themselves tomorrow.

As long as current government allows their policies to be dictated by the short sighted greed of their financial backers in the upper echelons of the corporate and financial sectors, the United Kingdom will find itself not only faced with mass unemployment but with long term poverty and a decline of the very quality of life itself for the people of our country.

It is no secret that businesses can turn a quick profit on the rotation of migrant workers from the European Union to fill their ranks with temporary workers who may only last a few months before they leave the country and the job and can be replaced instantly with another migrant worker; meaning that no worker stays in a job long enough to assert union rights or to climb the promotions ladder to become a business owner themselves.

This makes life very comfortable for business owners from top to bottom, however the long term cost of this will eventually lead to a total decimation of the chances of prosperity and self direction of the citizens of our country. We will find soon that the vast majority of citizens are out of work, in poverty being forced onto an increasingly destructive and ineffective benefit system, and are unable to afford to engage in the commerce that fuels businesses which will result in severe consequences for everybody within our country, regardless of their station.

To put it simply, the working people of this country are the support columns for every other facet of our economy and social structure; and when the support columns are chiselled away at until they are nonexistent, the entire nation will collapse.

My proposal for the solution to this crisis is a simple one, and believed to be the most effective for all involved, having also taken into account the governments commitments to provide jobs for those residing within mainland Europe as part of the EU agreement.

The most relevant example of a nation facing long term destabilisation due to job mismanagement that I have been able to personally draw strength from was the Roman Republic. An identical situation existed in Rome at the time of the death of Caesar where business owners and the patrician class had for a long time preferred to hire slaves at a minimal cost rather than pay the citizens of Rome to do the jobs instead. This provided great wealth for the patricians and eventual great poverty of the citizens when they were unable to find work. The solution then, proposed and enacted by Mark Antony during his consulship, was to pass a law stating that one third of all those within the labour market had to be citizens who were employed and paid with a fair wage.

It is no surprise then that my solution to the crisis we are facing is to do exactly the same thing. I propose that in fact, two thirds of all workers within every single place of employment within the United Kingdom MUST be British citizens and long term residents within this country. If a place of business has three employees, then two of them must be British citizens, if the business has three thousand, then two thousand must be British citizens, with the remaining placements being permissible for migrant labour.

So far the only logical objections to a law such as this would be brought by the European Union who are unable to provide work for the people in the economically damaged nations of Eastern Europe. However, whilst open to negotiation this is no concern to the government or citizens of Great Britain. It is the duty of each nation’s government to be able to first ensure that existing citizens are cared for before extending that courtesy to the people of other nations, and we would expect any credible government deserving of running a country to have realised the same thing. Any policy to the contrary of this would result in any government being deemed completely unfit to govern.

15th November 2010
Cerrone.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

This doesn't sound like a very good plan for people who like to go for a curry/foreign meal...

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Yeah i'm well aware libcom deleted it within two hours. So much for "liberal community" eh?

(or libertarian/indie manchilds, whatever they are)

I'm posting here because I did a search for "unemployed" and "forum" so i could get this seen by the people directly affected by the government policy and i found this forum as one of the top ones that came up.

I assume there're unemployed people here who'd be interested in it, no?

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

only been here a short while and I have noticed a broad spectrum of user base from far left to far right with a smackering on straight down the middle types. Some will agree and some wont

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Your proposal assumes that we have the necessary skills and knowledge to fill two thirds of all jobs in a company in our "indigenous" workforce - how would we carry on whilst we train up our British Citizens?

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

This also has worrying implications for Arsenal Football Club! Can't be having any of that...

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

And Chelsea, Man U, Man C, etc etc....

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

well perhaps if it was all reformed and Foreign players were limited in UK clubs we might eventually gain a world classNational side......

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

How did we manage before the EU? We managed and we're perfectly capable of doing it again, we need to or we're all really going to suffer because of it.

Look at the governments current "idea" to force people off of unemployment benefit- they're going to order anybody claiming on Job Seekers allowance to take part in unpaid community service projects side by side with criminals and while the unemployed are being degraded like this the government at the same time encourages more migrant workers to take up the jobs that the "indigenous" citizens could be doing themselves!

It's complete nonsense. And I think when these mandatory community service projects get forced onto the unemployed we're going to see a lot of discontentment surface very quickly.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Thank you for not answering my question (well, you answered it with a rhetorical question....).

Of course, the employment world is exactly the same as it was 35 years ago, isn't it?

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

The whole culture of the UK has changed in those 35 years but I for one do not think its changed for the better

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

It is curious how even the perceived poor performance of the national team is blamed on Foreign players and not the fact that other countries have considerably better coaching and development of young players (and often a wider pool to choose from). This is off-topic so I won't get into a discussion about why this is wrong but it is, foreign players are not the reason we don't have a world class national side.

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:23 ----------

You do understand a lot of jobs require knowledge, skills and training? Not every job can be done by a random person.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

I answered it.. didnt i?

:erm:

The principles of "employment" are the same whether it was 35 or 35,000 years ago. A nation relying on outside labour at the expense of its own citizens will cause nothing but poverty in it's citizens. Examine any nation in what ever time period you like, and you'll find that to be true.

I did the same thing and that's how I found the Mark Antony solution. Don't get me wrong, there may be short term benefits for a handful of people as there have been, but the vast majority of citizens who're denied jobs will deteriorate rapidly, and its unnessecary.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

I found it quite ironic when our Turkish neighbour, who has recently gained UK citizenship, goes on and on about "Bloody foreigners coming over here taking our jobs".

He recently missed out on a post that went first to a Polish guy, then to a Somali... from an application list over over 300 most of whom the employer stated were "non-UK nationals".

From that I get the idea that "UK nationals" did not want the job, which pays well with good benefits and hours, but sounded a bit "menial".

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

No. They are not the same and you cannot compare modern day Britain to the Roman Empire. For a start the level of expertise required has grown, there are a lot of jobs which require high levels of training and education and not enough people with the requisite skills in this country.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

and you do understand that a lot of jobs migrants are doing dont require any skills other than saying ''do you want fries with that''. For every skilled European here there are loads more Central Europeans working in factories, waiting on tables, cleaning and picking fruit. That is what wants reforming imo.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Do you really think that the ordinary indigenous and local born want those jobs at the wages being offered? :erm:

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

No, the principles remain exactly the same, regardless of disposable slaves in the Roman Empire hauling timber or disposable migrants in Essex answering phones in a call centre.

And that is very true. The statistics are right in front of you, next time you're in your town centre count how many indigenous brits you see behind the counters or waiting tables. Is there is a reason 2/3's of those jobs couldn't be handled effectively by british citizens? Or is there a reason a british citizen can't train to learn to handle any other job currently filled by a migrant worker regardless of the skills involved?

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Perhaps if there weren't so many people avaliable to do jobs for minimum wage the wages would increase to living wage level, my friend lives abroad half the year and works hard here the rest of the year, ten years ago most factory/agency work he did paid £6 an hourish now it's all minimum wage, that's a moot point anyway considering our coalition governments desire to get people in any avaliable work.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

No reason at all beyond that British citizens apparently refuse to work for the salaries offered and would rather live on welfare.

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Wanting companies to pay more means people paying more for products means demand for higher wages.

I believe we tried that about 30 years ago. Didn't go too well as I have read and destroyed manufacturing within the UK, even though to half the population blaming Thatcher is far more convenient an excuse than unions demanding higher wage settlements and manufacturing jobs being exported to China.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

No, you didn't - you gave a rhetorical question as your answer.I disagree with you - the principles of employment (with or without the quotes) are not the same; we are now, as a nation, in a service/knowledge economy (as we cannot compete on price on mass-manufacturing, only in niche), so if we wish to implement your suggestion (2/3rds of all employees in a business must be British Citizens), what do we do in the meantime whilst we train up (and they gain experience) the BC's in the knowledge and skills required (for instance, in IT, you can pass MCSE (or whatever it's called now) in a couple of months, but you need a couple of years experience to be really adding value (and a return on the investment in training)).

So I ask again - what do we do whilst the BC's are gaining this knowledge and skills?

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Some how I doubt paying people a living wage will result in anything other than firms making a few quid less after all I seem to remember the Tory opposition screaming we'd lose jobs to China etc when the minimum wage was brought in

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Unemployed or not ... that fact you're sticking around to take part in the discussion rather than simply spamming us is good enough for this admin. :tu:

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Yep and they were wrong, in no small part because relatively few people had their wages go up as far as I'm aware. A 'living wage' would cause huge inflation, far wiser to raise the tax allowance as they are doing so that people at the lower end of the income scale keep more of their money and ensure the welfare system incentivises work.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Err no it wouldn't, the living wage in London is about £2 an hour more than the minimum wage, even less in other parts of the country, if our economy is in such a state that paying people £14-24 a day more is going to cripple us we might as well give up now.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

So long as it came with a commensurate withdrawal of housing benefit and other welfare to an equivalent amount I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

Of course that wouldn't leave the people who receive the wage any better off.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

I'm not sure that it is a preference ,more of a necessity,one of the companies i subcontract to needed to start a night shift making windows and doors out of the 38 night shift staff i think there are only about 5 british workers as not many british workers applied .The migrant workers get paid the same as the British workers ,cos it's the law ,the only preference given to migrant workers as far as i know is because they usually have a better work ethic

you do realise that the company owners need workers ,skilled or otherwise to reach the upper echelons don't you and having owners of major companies in britain tell the government what needs doing ,or "dictating policy" isn't necessarily a bad thing ,sometimes the big bosses do actually know better than the government ,because as i said they need a workforce to earn their millions

That works both ways , British citizens can and do go abroard to work seasonaly ,i remember the hoards of British workers working in europe in the 80's ,a close friend of mine worked in germany for 5 years on and off and earned enough money to start his own bricklaying company in the uk.On the sites i work on there were a lot of polish workers who did the work that British workers couldn't/wouldn't do in the timescale required because it would mean working long hours in the summer ,it wasn't unusual to see polish plasterers rendering the houses untill it got dark ,aginst H&S a lot of it but that's a different argument

How long is long term?
what happens if a company cannot get British citizens to do the job?

I used to have a similar outlook towards migrant workers as you do but having worked alongside them i find them more profitable to me ,better workers ,and quite a lot of fun ,better than listening to British workers winging they haven't had the 10oclock tea break

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

Imo that would be the idea, to get people out of the benefits cycle and if firms are genuinly feeling the pinch because of it let the firm claim back cash from government to subsidise it not the worker.

As for housing benefit withdrawal I can see rents coming down anyway, our housing bubble is being kept afloat by migrants buying and housing benefit paying rent, now the migrants aren't so keen to come and the government is no longer as keen to pay buy to let landlords mortgages the only way is down and if all else fails would it really be so bad to reintroduce the fair rent act?

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

That just moves the welfare from individuals to companies, it's not the government's job to prop companies feeling the pinch up if they are being forced to pay higher salaries. If companies feel the pinch they can either reduce costs or raise prices. One is inflationary the other causes increased unemployment. Ideally neither would happen.

It's rather a socialist point of view advocating that companies pay higher wages using government subsidy don't you think? Companies will inevitably look for ways to get at those subsidies.

If we want people off welfare the most viable way would probably be ensuring that working people are always noticeably better off than those on welfare. Tax reductions and graduated welfare withdrawal strike me as better options than corporate subsidy.

Yep I'm thinking they'll come down in some areas too, mine not being one of them sadly!

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

I am not talking about massive corperations rather the small cleaning companies and the like that might struggle to pay even small increases for a year or two until their contracts are renewed and I don't think it's a socialist view, more a sensible short term safety net.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

The government requiring companies pay higher salaries and potentially funding said salaries is extremely distasteful and quite socialist. It's nothing more than redistribution of wealth which frankly is not the government's business.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

The welfare of citizens is very much the governments business as time and time again people are taken advantage of by theunscrupulous for instance a company a friend works for used to think nothing of paying £2 an hour before the minimum wage was introduced.

Besides what I suggested was meant as a saftey net for small companies, the idea is to get people free of benefits not force them back onto the dole because the firm goes bust, anyway it's not something government seems to interested in at the moment so we have to rely of firms doing the decent thing and happily there are hundreds that have signed up to the pledge.

Re: Proposal for the Reformation of the EU Migrant Labour within the United Kingdom
 

we could follow the example of the twinings tea company , get the local workforce to train a foreign workforce then dump the locals on the scrapheap , with a little rearranging we can get the foreigners to train the locals then dump the foreigners on the scrap heap .
it almost impossible to get a job in a factory/and many industries these days if your British, the bosses don't want us and that needs to change or we have no future .

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...9&in_page_id=2