Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Should we as a society support people like this girl? modernist muslims, who have grown up in this country and have their own thoughts and feelings?

or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

we as a society should accept that everyone has the right to be loved and to find love and it should not matter what a persons sexuality is .
that said i think its an uphill struggle, some people/religions have traditional views that will probably never change ,all we can do is try to make them see that its still their son/daughter/brother /sister and try to get them to support them rather than vilify them.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

we already have help in place to help such people ,the problem is that some muslims are so insular they will not allow others to help, they see it as interfering with their way of life .We should imo try to encourage such children as in your example to come forward because after all treatment like that is illegal in this country and if we prosecuted the parents more then maybe it would lessen

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Any evidence to support that statement, Gary, as the evidence (easily found) would seem to show otherwise?

LGBT Forced Marriage Government information

FCO Forced Marriage Special Unit website

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Indeed. In fact, Gary's original link mentioned the government's Forced Marriage Unit (FMU), so quite where "or should we like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?" came from I'm not sure.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

It's the weekly Muslim thread.

Thanks anyway, but I wont be participating this week.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Oh please don't start the taboo thing again.

I'm sure Reviva would thank you for not being concerned for her and others like her. and I'm sure she and they would be sorry that you are offended of her plight.

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------

I know it's there.

We are talking forced marriages, not arranged marriages.
which in this country are not justified by religious or cultural beliefs.

The help they get is a refuge. if that's not available they have to register on the housing list. the application would be homeless due to domestic violence.

the help they receive is to take them away from the family environment. they have to cut ties with the family.

educate the parents and the family that this is not acceptable in this country? educate the child to report it when it all kicks off?

or pick up on little things and make an issue out of that instead of the issue in hand.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Gary, you still haven't justified your statement Could you show us some evidence of this, please?

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Hugh. I don't have any evidence for my thoughts, no.
do you have an opinion on forced marriages in general, or anything to do with the subject. or shall we just argue about semantics and get the thread closed as usual?

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------

It may be their way of life. but it's what they've brought over with them. it's not acceptable in this country, and it's not about being against anyone in particular. it's being against what happens to the children who have grown up in this country.

they probably have no intention of leaving this country. so it's not just a thing some may have to put up with for a short time. the children may want to grow up differently to their olders and the same as others around them.

if it's seen as interfering in their business, then shame on us.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Is it the governments job to intercede ? as has already been said the government has put plenty of help in place ,there are also many charities that would help ,is this not enough ? .The help is there people have to want it and use it of their own free will ,we cannot force them

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Isn't that like saying there's help for victims of rape. the help is there if you want it. we can't force you to take the help?

What about giving the message that forced marriages in this country are not tolerated to the parents. neither is beating the child if she disagrees with the forced marriage? or do we give the leaflet to the victim to pass on to her parents?

If she had her mobile on her. she could have got someone from the charity to talk to her abusers.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

exactly the same ,yes, we can't force victims of rape to report it

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

But in the case of the rape victim. she doesn't live within a family that has a high probablility of raping her. or does she for arguments sake?

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

well in a lot of cases there are instances of rape from family members in non-muslim households also any kind of abuse you care to think of .There is nothing stopping muslim children contacting childline apart from fear of the parents finding out which is a problem i suppose in most households where abuse takes place

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

i cant get my head around this family honour thing
for instance i have two sons and i could not conceive of an instance where i would lock them in a room with the means to commit suicide just because they don't follow my beliefs /way of life.. i respect their individuality and choices in life ,i still reserve the right to pass comment [after all i am their dad ]but i don't believe i have the right to tell them how to live their lives its non of my business,this family honour thing just seems like a big stick to beat the kids with imo .

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

A high probability though.

We still haven't got around to educating the 'abusers' only the victims.

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

True. the family honour thing is pathetic. they will kill their own flesh and blood because they're embarassed about what they've done?

who cares what the neighbours think?

There will be some people that will be offended by that. they will think let the Muslims do it. it's nothing to do with us. I say. don't be offended for them doing it. be offended that they do it.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

If we are talking specifically about muslims then it is very hard to change peoples way of life in such a closed religion .We could tell them till we are blue in the face that abuse like this will not be tollerated in this country but it will not make any difference to hard line muslims as they follow a "higher authority" .I think the best we can hope for is continued exposure to western life by the children will teach the children to expose abuse of this nature ,even then it will be very hard for most children to see their family members prosecuted

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

I didn't think so - another uninformed opinion dressed up as fact....a) I have very strong opinions on forced marriage - I think it is wrong, and anyone found guilty of putting someone through it should be punished.

b) semantics - the branch of linguistics to do with the meaning of words; I would have thought the meaning of what you state (twisted and distorted though it may be) was fairly important.....:dozey:

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

No it was like one of your (imho) things.

back on topic we go ;)

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

There's a slight flaw with your "logic" here. Honour killings etc aren't specific to muslims. They happen in certain asian cultures, not all of which are muslim. Feel free to continue spouting your usual anti-muslim drivel though.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Could you provide some examples of people in Britain thinking that, please?

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Indeed - Honour Killings were only made illegal in Brazil in 1991 ; until then, wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

I'm talking about family honour in general. in this case the muslims. and the abuse the victim receives for that.

If I'm spouting anti-muslim by speaking up for the victims, then so be it.
as long as you don't go and pat the abuser on the head and say I'll speak up for you.

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

What is it with you, Hugh? if the girl was in the room telling you the abuse she and others suffer. would you ask her these questions?

would it be to try and discredit her, or just to satisfy your need to ask pointless questions?

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

It's also worth noting that not all muslims practice honour killings (or forced marriages).

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Gary, your reply has nothing to do with the question I asked - what has happened to the young lady, and others like her, is horrific and should not be allowed.

However, you stated Who are these people you refer to, that would think that way?

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

People who try and rubbish a thread concerning abuse suffered by muslim children. people who shout anti-muslim at every opportunity. people who call somebody racist for speaking of someone of another colour. people who take offence on other peoples behalf, even though they may not take offence and may actually want it talked about?

the list is endless. there's so many people.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Ah, thank you for your clarification.

So you are implying that because people disagree with you and the "unusual" way you have of putting your views across, they condone honour killings?

Interesting viewpoint.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

No I'm not. I think you have misread/misinterpreted what I said in answer to your question.

I seem to have missed your later edited post. you must have changed it after I replied.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

There are some things in life that make you laugh, others that make you cry and very occasionally some that leave you in a near state of shock.
Maybe Gary some posters are a little taken aback with the way in which you have painted yourself as the "Muslims" champion in this thread, I mean this isn't your usual angle in a Muslim thread is it??

Just an observation though Gary, after reading the entire thread I can't find anywhere your claim that posters have, "rubbished a thread concerning suffering of Muslim children".
I'm sure you'll wheedle your way out of the above claim as you always do, but hey it certainly feels better to stick up for people instead of aimlessly bashing them doesn't it?:)

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

don't forget the people who try to rubbish your every word every time you post something .

you do seem to have attracted a number of Klingons just lately .
your right some do cry racist /islamaphobe every time a discussion involves muslims or you get the classic its the weekly muslim bashing thread comment
i don't see why people can't just stick to the debate topic and leave out the personal rubbish .
this family honour stuff is happening and its happening now and peoples lives are being unfairly ruined these people deserve our support it just seems that some of use aren't allowed to give that support without the permission of a small minority group who have no real content to add to a debate .

i think given time this honour thing can be done away with ,we have people who are only first /second/third generation immigrants give it a few more generations and it will probably be consigned to history ,but that doesn't mean we should just ignore it now .

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

It is shocking. maybe you will share your thoughts about the abuse she and others suffer later in the thread?

Because the extremist muslims I sometimes talk about don't deserve praise for what they do?

"abuse suffered by muslim children"
it's not for me to decide.

Wheedle? is it a challenge to answer your many questions?

You've bashed me that much in this post, that I need another cup of tea :)

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 ----------

Agreed Papa, it's a shame really. hardly anyone has voiced any concerns about the girl being discussed. they'd sooner discuss me. if she was in the same room I'd feel embarassed for her.

:clap:

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

Typically cryptic as usual, you've either got the brain capacity of an amoeba or far more likely you enjoy trolling...either way your finally going on ignore.
There is absolutely no point in trying to discuss anything with you Gary as you never ever give a straight answer.

Re: Modernist Muslims and family honour.
 

That is just it. just like this post, there are no questions to answer with you. it was and is just abuse.

if I'm in the wrong for not accepting the abuse, then so be it.