Get on a bus and find a job
 

... so says IDS. But the Unions are all a-flutter over it:
So, is this a perfectly reasonable suggestion, or are the Unions justified in making responses like:

?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I think it's fair to say, if you are single, and don't have any other commitments, then travelling an hour for a job (which is average commuting time) is reasonable.

It all IMHO depends on a persons circumstances.

HMGov is generalising the entire population, something that you should not and cannot do! Everyone is individual.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

This just shows just bitter and twisted the unions are.

My commute is, at best, an hour each way. That is if my partner drops me at the station. If she doesn't then it is an hour and a half away or 3 hours each and ever day. And I have to pay a minimum of £122 or £170 if my partner doesn't drop me off, for the privledge. Not to mention waking up at 6:45am every day.

So in Len McKlusky's eyes I should be sitting on my arse living off JSA because I can't get a job in walking distance?

I think this just shows that unions are more interested in nasty partisan politics than improving tge workforce of this country.

And if there are any people in Methyr that are able take an hour's bus ride to find work but choose not to, then they are bone idle lazy.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I "got on my bike" and commuted to a Home Office job... then HMG sold us to NTL who almost immediately made us redundant.

No hordes of Merthyr bus tourers PLEASE!!!! It's bad enough when they come down here on the train to drink our beer!!

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I don't think IDS is telling us anything we don't already know. It's typical soundbites for readers of the Daily Mail.


I can't comment on the good people of Merthyr Tydfil but I'm sure they don't all fit into category described by IDS. Are there jobs in Cardiff? Is there a reasonable public transport system?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Having a family means you should be more incentivised to look for work, not less.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Prior to my current job (20 minute drive or 45 minute cycle), I was working the other side of Glasgow which was either 1 and bit hours on public transport or an hour rush hour driving. Before that it was even worse with an hour+ drive and no reasonable public transport.

If it gets some to understand that sometimes not getting everything handed to them on a plate makes for a better life then that gets a :tu: from me.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Can't rep you but well said. :clap:

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I don't think anyone has said all the people in MT (or anywhere else) are static or idle - just that some are.

Ad hominem arguments or sweeping generalisations (on whatever side of the political spectrum) don't, imho, assist in the discussion.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I don't disagree with that one bit, and I agree the previous government made it too easy to claim some benefits and it should be more stringent.

They could start by getting their own house in order though, by stopping Job Seekers if you don't stick a job for a particular time.

A lad who my mate at work knows, was on JSA and was placed in 2 different jobs in the space of 2 weeks, due to his laziness (he stuck one for all of an hour before walking out), but they still put him back on JSA after that, which IMO is wrong! He is AFAIK still on JSA and not actively looking for work!

Commuting a little isn't an issue, but an hour on the bus, at quite a chunk of cash, would put people off.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Is that comment directed at me or IDS?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

But how many of these people actually exist? How many people who have a reasonable work ethic would have a problem commuting? The evidence of the full buses,trains and motorways going in and out of all major cities suggests that most of us have got the message.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The Unions, and partially at IDS (he should have, imho, put "some" in front of "people"....)

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I'm hoping the change of emphasis from Tebbit's bike to IDS' bus isn't an underhand way of announcing an end to the Cycle to work scheme. :D

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Oh don't get me started on rubbish bus services and rip off bus fares..But yes it is reasonable to expect people to get out and about looking for work.In fact I reckon the travel expenses could get pretty difficult to keep up with on the JSA...

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

IDS is talking a load of crap, when l was unemployed l was told that by the JC, l said to them what about bus fares, am l going to get extra benefit to cover the cost, they said no.

To get a bus pass is money that some unelpoyed cannot afford, could you walk, no who would walk say 10 miles a day for a job that doesn't pay a lot of money, maybe he should wake up and say, we will place a ban on all foriegn workers who take all the jobs going, when it should be going to British workers, then maybe there could be jobs locally, or maybe the JC can offer FREE bus passes to do this, but they won't as it cost money.

Prime example, l had a job interview but required train fares, as l was on trial, I had to take proof of who l was, proof of where l lived, two bills, then l had to wait three hours for the money, then l had to take the reciept back the same day.

The Government have to provide work for this to work, but they can't as there is no work out there.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

i dont see a problem at all with what ids has said. Until recently i travelled 1.5 hrs on the bus there and back for work as there are hardly any it jobs where i live and now am even applying for jobs that are by bus a good 2hrs just to get there.

And arthur when are you going to stop blaming the immigrants for taking the jobs the english dont want to do as they are too lazy or unreliable, couple of months ago was a brilliant program on the beeb showing the difference between an english man thats been on the dole for ages and doing the job the immigrant was doing and guess who didn't turn up or wasn't pulling their weight in the 4 jobs they went for only 1 english man was doing a good enough a job

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

But you got the money back - the process may be a little convoluted and long-winded, but it stops it being abused.

btw, didn't take you long to blame the foreigners, did it, Arthur?:dozey:

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Can't rep you either, but well said.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Why should you be entitled to benefit to pay your bus fare to work? Are you some sort of special case?

You don't need a bus pass - not for the first month anyway. Just pay the man when you get on board. Use coins.

Now you're just having a nonsensical rant.

Prime example of what? A moment ago you were moaning about not getting help with fares. Now you're moaning because you do get them, because (shock, horror) the Job Centre wants you to prove you have actually incurred the expenses. Something any employer would also insist upon before paying expenses.

Yes, there is. If there's no work in your town, get on a bus and find it in the next one. Or do what I've done and start your own business working from home.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

First time I used a bus for years the other day, it was £2 for 5 stops, dread to think what it'd be if I had been on it an hour, even if it was £2 flat rate I doubt you'd get anywhere meaningful at the end of the line, so that'll be another £2 for another bus, soon mounts up when your on JSA and that of course doesn't take into account the amount of bus services being cut either.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The point is daddy, if you're on JSA then you can claim back the cost of going to interviews. If you have a job, then the cost of the commute is just one of the expenses you deal with, just like everyone else. I really don't see Arthur's point. I doubt he does, either, beyond blaming foreigners and Tories for everything.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Perhaps Arthur's point is that the number of bus services are being cut by up to a fifth, meaning a lot fewer opportunities to follow IDS's advice, then again perhaps not....

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Here in luton its £3.70 for a allday ticket that will let you travel on any Arriva bus any time from luton to as far as milton keynes about 20 miles

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I get the bus to work most days, and pay £4.30 for a Day-Rider (any where in Leeds, as many buses as it takes) - there are also Yorkshire Day Riders for buses any where in Yorkshire for £5 per day, and a pass for all buses and trains in West Yorkshire for £6.20; I am sure most regions/cities have something similar.

---------- Post added at 15:54 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

Do you really think that was Arthur's point, or is it just one you thought he should have made?;)

btw, can I ask where you got Arthur's point from (bus services being cut by a fifth)?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I live in Havering which despite being a London Borough is really Essex, I think my £2 is a flat fee no matter how many stops, which would of been cheaper if I had an Oyster card I am sure.

:cool:

Daily Mail *shudders*

Graham Stevenson, national officer of Unite said: 'Iain Duncan Smith is callously telling people to get on a bus to look for a job but the Tories are actually cutting bus services. It's alarming that subsidies paid direct to bus operators have been cut by a massive 20 per cent.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

Granted they might be able to trim some of the backroom costs back but I cant see anything other than service cuts tbh

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Most public transport options also offer weekly/monthly/season tickets that work out considerably cheaper.

Anybody actually looking for a job would factor in costs and feasibility of getting there.

I'm going back a few years now but I once was considered to be an unsuitable candidate for a job because of where I stayed. At the time I stayed in East Kilbride and the job was in Hillington. There wasn't a direct bus at the time but I could have done it by train no problem.

It does pose the question though, if you're an employer and you are aware from previous experience that the public transport from a particularly location is notoriously poor, do you consider applicants from that area as unsuitable?


I can get a return on the train for just over £4, by bus just under £4 or by cycle - a pittance. :D

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

:rofl:


:rofl: Do you mean Cardiff's Disintegrated Transport System? :rofl:

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Indeed. I get the 4 week ticket on my mobile (£33.30), saves me a fortune each month in petrol and parking. £80 to be precice, every month.

Very poor value indeed :p:

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Cutting subsidies isn't the same as cutting services though.

Also the cost for Oyster is 1.20 per trip regardless of length (which can be long sometimes). The maximum daily charge for bus use is £3.90. Oyster is also free via a refundable £3 deposit.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Which is the worst kind of obfuscation. Whatever may or may not be happening to bus services, IDS's point stands: some people seem to think that the world owes them a living, and they need do no more than sit on their behinds and wait while everything is brought to them on a plate.

Stevenson should leave the Tory-bashing to the Parliamentary Labour Party, because that's their job. He should get on with his own job, which is protecting the interests of working people who are members of Unite, not trying to make out he's some sort of champion of idle dole-bludgers.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

How do we pay for these buses?

I don't own a bike.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

When they are being cut by that much the only thing it can mean is a cut in services or a massive increase in fares, btw the subsidy cut in London is 40%

Jo de Bank from London Travelwatch said: “A reduction would almost certainly mean fewer buses, cuts on routes and longer waits for passengers.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...idy-is-axed.do

Cheers for the info but tbh I don't think I'll be bothering with a bus again, now I have my car fixed.

---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------

Yes what's wrong with them, got no legs, walk to the next town, whether IDS has a point or not he could have phrased it better imo.

Perhaps we should close this thread and get back to our own jobs then? It makes me feel good that people can speak out when they feel government is wrong and that there is a platform for them to do so on.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

dont mind paying 23.80 a week to travel all over northants and other stagecoach busses in the uk

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The point is, various trade unions have rushed out press releases in response to this because they feel entitled to be a part of that aspect of the public debate. I don't see how they are, except possibly in the sense that everyone expects the trade unions to make North-Korean-style, knee-jerk condemnations every time a Tory opens his mouth.

None of the above has any bearing on the wider debate that goes on in forums such as this.

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------

I assume, then, that you would agree that this little piece of political theatre could have been better phrased then:

I have faced commutes of up to two hours each way in the past. Never did I consider myself to be wandering anywhere. I always thought I was making a worthwhile contribution to society and keeping a roof over my family's head.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

They represent a large part of the public, that aside they don't force the press to print or report on their opinions and those self same North-Korean-style, knee-jerk condemnations generally happen the moment their opinions are reported on, which in most cases are either taken out of context or deliberately misinterpreted to suit the current trend of vilifying Unions.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

As a matter of fact I do, there is far to much such rhetoric floating about at the moment imo.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Shock and horror! - expecting people to actually travel more than 5 minutes down the road to find a job.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35112111) They represent a large part of the public, that aside they don't force the press to print or report on their opinions and those self same North-Korean-style, knee-jerk condemnations generally happen the moment their opinions are reported on, which in most cases are either taken out of context or deliberately misinterpreted to suit the current trend of vilifying Unions.

The unions might ask themselves why they have such an appalling PR problem. And in seeking an answer, perhaps try not blaming the Tories for once.

As for level of representation ... a very quick Google suggests they may represent perhaps 30% of the workforce. So, perhaps a third of those in work, and presumably very, very few of those out of work, who by definition are the ones Unite feels suddenly so entitled to champion this afternoon.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

Quote:

As a matter of fact I do, there is far to much such rhetoric floating about at the moment imo.

:tu:

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

When public transport is running on time my journey each morning and night is 40mins, that's a bus and a train. When it's not running well my journey time risen to anything up to 2.5 hours. This doesn't happen very often and because of this I do not mind.

I know of people willing to travel to work get caught up in transport unreliability and lose out on a job interview because of it. Worse still, they had their benefits stopped.


The other main problem is when you see people that are physically capable of walking catching the bus to travel 2 or 3 stops.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Well the buses in my area run every hour, and I cannot remember the last time I was on a bus, but I guess it was over 15 years ago.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The bus fare and journey doesn't bother me as I get free travel due to a disability and I am unable to drive. I applied for a few jobs 10.5 miles away in a nearby town and didn't get the job as more than one employer quote said "You live too far" they did have a point as some of the shifts there finished when there would have been no bus service home most buses finish around 6 to 8pm since they were privatised and train travel costs more than I would have been earning. And if you think relocating from a poor area to a well off area on minimum wage is an option forget it I could never afford it and there is no social housing or reasonable rental costs in better off areas. I'm too old to be going back to college and find it difficult to learn new skills. I give up ! Ian Ducan Smith get real you should be creating jobs where people are so people can stay in there communities have less to spend on travel and meet Cameron's green credentials. This country is well ******* up. Next we will be hearing Ducan Smith say get on the plane and find work.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Unless you think the country has suddenly become '*** up" in the last 6 months, I assume you lay the blame for its state at the door of the Labour Party.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I think bywater was using his / her life experience to point out some of the obvious, and less obvious, hurdles that people like he / she face in their endeavours to find work - not who best to point the finger of blame at.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Actually that's exactly what I was thinking. It was an interesting and informative post ... right up until the point where he made it party political by laying into IDS. "Next we will be hearing Ducan Smith say get on the plane and find work." adds about as much to the debate as idiots from Unite painting pictures of people 'wandering' around the country on buses with all their worldly goods on luggage racks.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Assume nothing the truth is there's nothing between any of the rotten lot. Each government blames the one before the pantomime just gets a tad boring and I find the demonising of poorer members of society is just evil along with racism homophobia and sexism.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Perhaps some sort of time-limited travel pass could be considered? Not extra cash but a pass that could only be used workdays for a limited number of weeks. That could help people with no savings or spare cash to get the start they needed.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

A lot of people I know aren't single and do have other commitments but still get up at the crack of dawn, commute and get home late in the evening....Says something about those people....

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Well said.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

How about demonising non-poor people? Or are they fair game?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I think IDS has a point ,could have phrased it better though.There is an element of society that thinks the world owes them a living .Having said that most people who want to work generally find a way to get to work be it bus ,train, bike or shanksies pony .People with commitments i.e family or even in the case of single young men with a car he/she needs to pay for will usually find a way to make things happen .As far as commuting is concerened i do a fair bit of travel to get various sites ,not all sites i work on are in newcastle ,i am currently working a lot in peterlee ,at first it was an inconvenience getting up an hour earlier now it is routine and i daresay that is the same for most commuters

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

I don't think anyone is demonising poorer members of society just those members that think work should come to them and refuse to be inconvenienced in any way i.e travelling more than 15mins to work

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Isn't it because it was Duncan Smith that said get on a bus to look for jobs?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Yes, but it was then extrapolated into a silly extreme (get on the plane) - the argument of the absurd.

btw (and this isn't meant at you, Gary), when did saying "We need to recognise the jobs often don't come to you. Sometimes you need to go to the jobs." become 'demonising the poorer members of society'?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Isn't that what we're discussing? whether getting on a bus to find a job is absurd?
if it's only absurd to go as far as getting on a plane, then what's left to discuss?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

If anyone thinks getting on a bus to go to, or to find, a job is absurd, I would be very concerned for them - I see lots of people doing it every day (myself included).....

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Perfectly reasonable, IMO.

Back when I finished Uni, I went back to living at my parents' house. After a month on JSA, & then 6 months of crappy temp work, I finally found a "proper" job that was at least in some way related to what I had studied. But as my home town was not exactly overflowing with biology related jobs, it meant getting the bus to & from Cambridge every day, one hour each way, for a rather pathetic starting salary of £10k. I did eventually leave home & move to Cambridge, but only after around 18 months of getting on the bus to go to work.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Well said :clap:

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The point that seems to being missed here is that IDS has demonised all unemployed people.

Yes there is a section of idle layabouts who wouldn't walk the lengths of themselves to get a job, never mind get a bus.

I doubt very much if the many honest people desperately seeking work will be taking too kindly to the generalised statement IDS has made. Insensitive to say the least. Talk about kicking people when they're down.:(

If this is an example of the caring side of the big society then we're well and truly screwed.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Here is the actual interview - Link

Could someone please show me where he has "demonised all unemployed people"?

I heard him say "when there is work available, we expect them (unemployed people) to make a reasonable effort to take that work" - who the hell does he think he is, expecting a reasonable effort from people?:rolleyes:

Or are we, as is so common, basing our comments on what commentators, who often have their own axe to grind, have interpreted what he said to suit their own agendas?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I find the level of indignation from the unions and others over this absolutely comical.

Anyone actually watched the clip to see what IDS actually said and its' context?

If it helps he didn't refer to 'everyone' at any point. He referred to 'people'. Could have been clearer? Maybe. Justifying this response from the unions? In my opinion absolutely not and it's frankly bizarre for the unions to be commenting as they are and makes it entirely transparent that they are simply trying to stoke class warfare.

Incidentally that page actually contains the dreaded clip. Highly recommend actually watching this and checking the link out just to see the utterly comical nature of the words when considering what they are describing.

It goes way beyond defending their members and into their pathological hatred of anything that isn't the Labour obeying its' union paymasters. Unions are trying to flex their political muscle thinking the austerity programme will give them the means to whip up support, totally oblivious to the fact their thinking isn't relevant and isn't wanted. People may love what they have to say until they realise that to give the unions what they want will cost 25% more tax for all on top of all tax rises announced thusfar.

25% basic rate, 25% VAT, 50% higher rate sound good? Didn't think so.

EDIT: Bah, Hugh beating me to it with the link.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Personally, I think the problem is people are interpreting what was said as a "one size fits all" collection of measures. Now sadly, this is the way the some people that work for Job Centre Plus will take and enact things. That's what worries me about this.

I don't drive due the disability, my commute costs me just over £25 a week, if I did the journey by two bus rides instead of a bus and a train then i'd spend just over £30. With lower fare subsidies for the bus companies, and train fares being allowed to rise greater than the rate of inflation, I wonder about the future affordability of public transport for myself, let alone the those trying to get a job.

Also, another point that confuses me. Why is there an assumption that the unemployed are all non drivers/non car owners? I wonder what the actual percentage is. Maybe holders of car/bike licenses should be subjected to greater scrutiny/sanctions regarding the job searching activities?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Wouldn't do people in this village much good.. In the morning there's 2 buses when they decide to run...

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

How would they do that?
if there were stricter sanctions on whether you had a licence, you'd say you didn't have one.
even then you could say you have a licence but don't own a vehicle.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Valid point.

Although as a Government body i'd imagine that they could have access to the DVLA database. But as it stands at the moment claimants would probably do exactly as you'd pointed out. I suppose then the only problem would be if a claimant was applying for a job that listed a driving license as an essential requirement, that's the problem, tell a lie and you risk being found out.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

True, but it all comes down to cost of travelling, and how far they'd expect you to travel because you had a car compared to not having a car.

because they want you off the 'books' you'd probably be told that after fuel expenses you'll be £10 a week better off than you are now.

I think that's what the biggest block is in getting a job or not getting a job. to a lot of people it's 'is it worth getting out of bed for'

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

That, to me, is just plain wrong.

I have never lived that near work. My commute is anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour and a half. It costs me nearly £1,000 a year to do this. Why do I do this? My salary is considerably more than £1,000 a year.

If I were to follow your logic, I would not have my job. I would possibly not have any.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

And that's what the Government are trying to change - that sort of attitude is not acceptable; if they can work, they should do, rather than everyone else supporting them.

Remember - the main revenue the government has is tax, and we (on the whole) pay for that minority who don't choose to work (I am not including those who are not able to work in that comment).

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

As far as I know, that attitude was acceptable by the jobcentre staff themselves until they were told to think otherwise.

with some people they get their rent, council tax and a few other bits and bobs paid. so they see it as a bigger picture where if the job is only temporary they will have to pay out I'd say a minimum of £100 per week before they start working out travel and all other expenses.

it's not really their fault either. I remember when I was younger and people claiming the dole knew they were entitled to everything that was going. they'd be down the office demanding this and that. even with their baby in arms saying who's going to feed it?

it's only just recently started changing, where demands are not met anymore. and the responsibility lies with the parents and not so much the government.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

And sometimes public transport timetabling doesn't benefit the early worker or the late worker..

First bus out of this village isn't until 6.40 but my husband starts work at 6 am and is expected to arrive early enough to do a hand over.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

So obviously he should throw himself on the dole citing difficulty getting to work as an excuse.....:D

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

No luckily we have a car..otherwise he could bike it it theoretically being in the same town.Could be problematic (and has been in the past) if living further from one's workplace than a bike ride though.

The point I was trying to make is that not all cases are the same and not all jobs can be fitted in around public transport.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

according to the government you should move to fit the job location

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

As I have done on several occasions (I once had a 1.5 hour drive each way and my wife had a 2.25 hr drive each way before we moved)......are you saying people shouldn't?.......and simply sit on their arses and bleat about how unfair life & govts are? :dozey:

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

So he found a way :tu::)

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

no i just point out that the gov are saying we have no sympathy for any one that complain about the lack of buses.
and people bleat about how unfair life & govts are,
all of the time they dont need an excuse

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

That didn't involve public transport yes..but we are talking about using public transport in the search for a job are we not..and some jobs don't begin and end within public transport hours..So one size does not fit all.Then of course one is into using private transport which is fine if you have some..but the costs have to be borne out by one receiving a reasonable wage that enables one to make enough of a profit wage wise to pay all your bills and afford transport.

Last year I was offered work to invigilate.Unfortunately the job was the other side of Portsmouth and entailed two bus journeys and a ferry journey to get there and about 40 minutes journey to get there.Same coming back except I would always get a half hour extra on the journey for waiting time for the final bus.for this I got £30.As the journey cost around a tenner I was in fact earning only £20 before tax..£20 for sometime a 3 hour exam..sometimes an hour.

Now Rammy, be honest would you bother?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

rubbish ,the point that has been missed here is that the unions have blown what IDS actually said out of context and proportion ,basically they have lied and fools and the media have sucked it up like a dyson .As i said ,and many others ,he could have phrased it better so the fools weren't confused but he hasn't generalised any body .
The unions haven't had a government to critisise for 14 yrs but by god they are making up for it now

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

But there have to be many other jobs that allow you to use public transport.I wouldn't be happy about it but if that was the only job going then i would.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

After all, £20 is better than nothing..

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:19 ----------

Unfortunately, Public Transport isn't always a viable option. For instance, I used to work in a local hospital. It is relatively near (only 3 or 4 miles), but I had to go by bus. There were only two buses I could get, and the nearest stop is a 20 minute walk away. That's not a problem. Timetabling and the fact the buses were frequently late meant that I had to leave home at 7:45 to guarantee getting to work at 9. That is also not a problem (although I did often arrive at work 30 minutes early).

What could have caused a problem is that the bus service does not start until 6:00. Thankfully, I didn't do shifts.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

You just won't admit that there maybe a time when a job just isn't worth the effort of getting to it will you?

Because I'm positive all those who are so positive that all jobs are worth having EVEN if they don't pay all the bills have never been poor...to the point that when shoes go to holes and there is no money to repair said shoes you just stuff your shoes with cardboard..

Been there, done that and my widowed mother was brilliant at making very little money go a long way..and found that if she earned more than £10 per week her Widow's pension would be taken into account for tax purposes.This left her to the tender mercies of exploitative managers because she had no chance of a good well paid job because she had no relevant qualifications and had been a stay at home wife and mother..

Anyone who has truly been poor would never willingly wish it on another.:(

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

IDS would have half a point in a boom, we in a recession tho and about to scrap half a million public sector jobs.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Lets make my point a little clearer, I live in Hounslow, if l was offered a job in say Putney, l would have to consider several things, whats the job worth, what the travelling expenses, what time l would have to start.

Then you look at what benefit you get, and if you get the job, the financial strain you will have to face, you don't get working credit until you have been at a job SIX WEEKS, You have to look at all angles, l was told that l couldn't cliam any expenses as l was not on a benefit that allowed me to claim, l was on JSA, l was only given an expense claim when l showed a letter saying l had got the job, and the expense was for one week only.

It is very well the government telling us to get on our bikes to look for work, but would you get out of bed for £13.000 per year.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

When I got my first "real" job after finishing university in 1999, I got out of bed (and on a bus, for 1 hour each way every day), for a grand total of £10,000 per year. This was after six months of getting out of bed for minimum wage temp. work in a warehouse. By the time I was finally living in Cambridge a couple of years later (but still getting a bus, just for not quite as long a journey), I was getting out of bed for £12,750 per year.

I guess some people have different attitudes to work...

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

£200 a week was a good wage 10 years ago for many. cigarettes were probably £2 for 20 then.

did you have any commitments, or were you living with parents at the time?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I was still living with my parents when I first started working for £10k per year. I did contribute each month, though (albeit not full market rates of course), plus had student debts to pay along with bus travel expenses. Once I started living in Cambridge in 2001, on just under £13k per year, I was living in rented accommodation, so had to fork out rent + utilities + food etc. each month.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

What happens when travel to work + rent + council tax + food + bills for essential services comes to more than your pay packet? This is the situation that many are faced with. Tampering with child benefit and tax credit eligibility may remove the only motivation/sweetener that convinces someone that a job is worth going for. But the government appear to be saying "your all going to do more for less".

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I have a friend that was offered an 18k/year job, he was on JSA, and the job was an £8 a day commute away (bus + train).

The jobcentre offered to pay for his travel for the first week, that means he was still left to find £120 JUST for travel until his first pay cheque. Pretty hard to do when JSA is £65 a week.

If he didn't have friends that were willing to lend him the money to actually get to the job he'd have been forced to turn it down, a job that could have easily supported him.

So it's all well and good the government telling people to get on the bus, but when they make it impossible for people to use public transport and commute long distances when they actually get a job then maybe they need to rethink some of their policies.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The benefit system lacks common sense, every jonb I know off will make you work in advance for pay, some a week, some a month. JSA should still be paid during this period.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

As it's paid in arrears he still got JSA up till 2 weeks before his first paycheque, which isn't that bad, but when you're only getting £65 a week you really can't afford to be spending £40 of that on travel.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I always thought you could claim travel expenses untill you got your first paycheque or possibly in the modern system get a emergency loan to cover such costs

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

There is a discretionary payment of up to £250 to cover the costs of starting work.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I thought there would some help ,i find it hard to believe that people would be left in a position where they are forced to turn down jobs because they can't afford to travel to the place of work

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

The keyword there is discretionary though.

He'd already had money for a suit for an interview, and travelling expenses for interviews, so they decided he could only claim back the first weeks travel.

They suggested a budgeting loan but they can take 4 weeks to come through so a lot of good that would have been.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

plenty of people i know have got budgeting loans or emergency loans from the dole on the same day or the next .If as you say the system will not allow for people having to work for a month before getting paid then it is a very poorly thought out system .

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Crisis loan you can get same day, but you have to show an urgent need, there's a fairly limited set of reasons they can be paid out.
Budgeting loans you have to apply for by post and they take a while to come through.

It's not that the system doesn't work for anyone, that JSA is paid in arrears means you'll never be more than 2 weeks from your last payment to your first pay cheque, but if you have high travel costs due to looking for a job outside your local area it can quickly turn against you. Which is my point, it's all very well saying get on the bus and look further afield, but you have to make sure the system can support all cases of that.

But then maybe the Tories big society involves having your mates bail you out so the system doesn't have to.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

as far as i am aware, you only get this after you have been signing on for 6 months. also you get 4 weeks grace with housing benefit,

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I wonder how many are aware of this, I wasnt. They dont seem to advertise the point.

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

This arrears thing is a new one to me, last time I was on JSA when I notified them I had a job they immediatly stopped payments. Everyone I know who has been on JSA (granted only a couple of people) also got it immediatly stopped when they found work.

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Yep, £2 from the railway station to where I work. One way, no returns available. It takes me 25 minutes to walk, so about a mile and a half.

Refuse to use the service, healthier to walk anyway... :)

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

I think people are living in cooko land, When l was signing on, l was given several oppotunites to obtain a loan to get to job interviews, but to get the loan, l lost part of my benefit.

And here is a classic of what the JCs are like, l was picked out of the queue to sign on, by being told that l would be woking as a temp for 'special events' at Chelsea Fc for one day, l was one of 30 people sent by Hounslow JC, we all met in a car park in a coach, we were told we would get £30.00 for the day.

On the day l signed on, l advised them what had happened and that l was sent by the JC, my benefit was suspended for a week, and when l did get my benefit, l was stopped £25.00 as l had worked for that day.

I did not even get any special benefit for travelling for that day, l had to wait six weeks for the £30.00 from ' special events ' and then the JC took that.
So you cannot win

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

If anyone is living in 'cuckoo land' it is you, Arthur - you did a days work for which you were paid & that pay was deducted from your benefit.

Why did you expect 'special benefit' for being provided with a free coach? This is the whole point of this thread - travel time & expense for normal working people is not refunded.

If anything, from what you say you were paid £30 & had £25 deducted from your JSA, so you made a fiver on the deal - what definition of 'cannot win' are you using?

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Afte 6 months (plus in some cases) of unemployment it's a £100, it should be paid automatically within ~3 days of signing off as a 'bonus' for finding a job that will last for 3 months.

Any 'adviser' discretionary payments are like trying to get blood out of a stone from whomever you speak to, they can be for interview clothes, tools, or specialist clothing you may need for the job, travel expenses until your first wage and any documentation you may need.
It was upto £300 when I was along term 'doley' way back in 2000

Re: Get on a bus and find a job
 

Hmm - my last job was located close enough to cycle to work, it took around 30 minutes, come rain or shine (wind. hail & snow), but then I was made redundant.

My new job requires me to drive 350 miles a week to get there & back - so less hail in the face, but significantly more expense.

OK I'm paid more, overall, but if I hadn't expanded the 'can do' radius of how far I would travel for work I wouldn't have been offered the job in the first place.