Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

I know this and that needs doing, but these people will just turn to crime if they have no money for 3 years.
3 years to get used to stealing and robbing. it will become a way of life for some people.


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Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

I suspect it'll reduce crime, especially given you'll need to be convicted three times for withdrawal of benefits to become an issue.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Isn't if they've been convicted of benefit fraud three times, not just any crime?

I can't imagine why anyone would do it once, let alone three times

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

By conviction, I don't think they mean like drink driving or assault.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Yup - linky btw, "could", not "will"......

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

If that's the case I can't see it causing any major increase in crime.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Actually i agree with gary on this one .For some people living on benefits is a way of life ,they are commiting a crime simply by claiming ,so any reduction in their income will be a severe blow to them and will have to be replaced somehow ,and for most turning to illegaly working (if they aren't already)or even burglary or mugging will be the answer

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

How?

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

At least some people will stay in employment in the public sector..

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

In reality this is not people staying in employment but rather 200 people being recruited to the public sector (the one they're trying to reduce).

This is a hairbrained idea which in reality will never work. It is being framed in this context purely to sate the people who have bought into the "scrounger", "fraudster" spin that has been fed to the media and forced down everyones throat for the past six months.

The real issue here is the sharing of information with credit reference agencies.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

claiming jsa whilst working is a crime
claiming invalidity whilst working is a crime

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

As long as they improve the internal communications between the different benefit agencies. I know someone who was initially legitimately claiming housing benefit and JSA.

When he started work he informed the Benefits Agency to stop paying him JSA. When he asked what would happen re: council tax and housing benefit, they told him his claim with the council would automatically stop. This was not the case and they continued to pay in to his 'benefits' account which he no longer used.

6 months later his statement arrived showing the council were still paying housing and CT benefit. Even though he sent it all back to them they still investigated him and 6 month later he was interviewed under caution and ended up leaving court with a conditional discharge which meant although he walked free, he still has a criminal record.

---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

No, it's only a crime if you fail to inform them how many hours you work.

It's possible to legitimately claim JSA and still be working a small number of hours.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Ditto with Incapacity Benefit.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

you know what i mean ;)
this idea is clearly aimed at those individuals who defraud the system by illegaly claiming jsa or other benefits either by working on the black market or claiming false invalidity which is a crime .I don't think that some of those people would think twice about turning to other forms of crime to replace any state income they lose

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

I worked in this area for several years up to about 5 years ago and rarely saw anyone prosecuted for a second time let alone a third. The cost of preparing and taking a claimant to court, together with the time constraints of bringing a case, meant that only a relatively small number of cases ever got that far. That is not to say that repayment was not pursued just that only a small percentage of cases ever got as far as a conviction being sought.

There have also always been special drives to hit certain areas of fraud and the measure of success was not just the successful prosecution of a single claimant but the ripple effect that prosecution could have upon claimants in that area and/or in similar circumstances. Whether it be, for example, people doing undeclared work for complicit employers or a well publicised case of a public figure being caught out doing the supposedly impossible with their declared physical limitations.

I vividly remember one firm who were found to have over a hundred employees not declaring that they were working whilst claiming benefits. When our inspectors made spot checks the firm was left with virtually no employees below supervisory grade as they had all stopped working.

A fair few of the people investigated were found to be living well beyond the means of even their inflated benefit claims so we could only guess in most cases how they were funding their lifestyles and I could only assume they were already involved with other forms of criminal activity so stopping their benefits wouldn't have driven them to a life of crime, rather just shifted the balance.

As far as lack of communication between other benefit agencies is concerned I can only say that there are means to exchange information in place and they are, on the whole, effective in terms of stopping unwarranted benefit being paid however the shear number of cases involved meant that with the best will in the world there were months of work backlogged waiting to have any overpayments assessed and collection instigated, or the fraud aspect investigated.

This may have improved since I left but whilst I worked in that field it certainly never helped that staffing levels were never in line with the amount of work that needed to be done and using more investigators would only add to the backlog not help clear any existing problem.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Anyone else think the 4th poll option could've come straight from Gideon's mouth? Comparing benefits cheats to street robbers displayed his true feelings toward us oiks imo, sure no one likes a benefit cheat but to compare them to violent criminals :spin:

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Will crime increase as a result of the outlined benefit fraud measures? simple answer - only time will tell.

not very constructive I know, but true.

Until we know the full extent of this spending review and their proposed timetables. I don't think we will really know what could happen.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Will anything change as a result of the outlined benefit fraud measures? Only time will tell, but probably not

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

lol you can claim incapacity and work ? that totally kills the point!!

good these **** BAGS should be punished if they then turn to crime because they already lost there benefits they need to be HARSHLY punished

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

What is most interesting for me is how we interpret the idea of a crime. For instance some stats taken from here http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/...racksuit.html:

Estimated cost of benefit fraud: £5.2 billion
Estimated saving of unclaimed benefit: £16 billion
Estimated cost of income tax and corporate tax evasion: £17 billion

Listening to all the rhetoric you'd think benefit fraud is far outweighing anything else which, in purely financial terms, it clearly isn't. But I suppose in terms of the political message and how far we can relate to or feel in some way personally affected by the crime benefit fraud will win every time. I mean it's much easier to feel 'robbed' by the 'sponger' up the road than a faceless corporation based on some offshore tax haven - especially with a copy of the Daily Mail in your hand.

And as for those benefits that go unclaimed well, who cares about that?

As for the OP question, 'will crime increase?' - I very much doubt it but I know where I'd like the govt to focus it's attention.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

It doesn't need to be either/or - the Government should focus on all areas of fraud.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

The fraudsters who work & claim should be prosecuted. There is a section of our community who refuse to work, & demand benefits. I very rarely watch lunchtime TV, but last week, Philip Schofield interviewed a mid twenties woman who had 7 kids by 7 different men.

When interviewed, she said it was her right to have as many children as she wanted, & an equal right to be paid benefits. Her "partner", who, surprisingly enough was also on benefits said he would not work for less than £500 a week.

What a life eh, stop in bed, have loads of kids, & get some other mug to pay for it all.

It just about summed it up, some people just want to lie in bed & wait for their wages to come through the letterbox.

But you have NO right to stop paying for it.

The whole system is rotten to the core.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

They have been losing ground with their Fleet Street cheer-leaders of late, so some good old right-wingery will score a few points with Dacre's hell hounds.:)

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

I was watching my local news earlier and they showed a couple of surveilance videos of incapacity fraudsters. then a few words about how they are all being assessed to see whether they're fit for work.

the thing that annoyed me about it was they said "the government says the money being fraudulently claimed could pay for 200+ new schools, and 150.000 new nurses wages"

as if they would spend the money on any of them anyway! and enough with the mass revolt against people on benefits. even I'm starting to believe they're all **** of the earth and need spitting at when I hear they're unemployed.

then I watched another channel, and they were also fuelling me with the idea that being on benefits means you're a cheat.

one guy said it's not about saving money. it's about saving lives.
I don't know what drugs he'd taken earlier, but he was clearly high as a kite.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Perhaps you are projecting your feelings and thoughts on to the programmes?

There were articles on our local and the national news about benefit fraud, but they did not, in my opinion, state, imply, or infer that all those on benefits were cheats/scroungers/fill in derogatory term of your own choosing.....

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

So they're not trying to turn us all against people on benefits with emotional blackmail about schools and nurses then?

thank God for that.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

It seems you've made up your mind long ago concerning anybody who claims benefits.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Did I?
I don't think I've had much of an opinion about them really. but if you say I did then who am I to argue?

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Benefit overpayments and fraud is £1 billion per year , unclaimed benefits paid for by the tax payer = £8 billion per year = tax evasion by government figures = at least £15 billion with some putting the current loss at £50 billion

http://www.all-forums.co.uk/forum/at...0&d=1287524499


btw your boss ricardo does this;)

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Actually I understand your point..They may not state it but by inference the words benefit claimants does for some equal cheat..

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

And when questioned about it they'll more than likely say "I don't mean all of them!"

sad thing is they probably do mean all of them. because that's what we're being taught to believe.

Re: Benefit fraud measures outlined (crime increase?)
 

Being a Carer with handicapped twins I see that a lot of these "measures" are also being focused on my wife and I, and to some extent our twins.

They may tweak the rules to exclude disabled persons and their Carers, but at the moment it is all being very stressful... something myself, and most other Carers, could do without!

We exist on benefits, and seem to be lumped-in with criminals who claim fraudulently by many members of the public! I have often been verbally abused along the lines of "Get a job you scrounger!" by people who I doubt could cope with the mental and physical strains of being a Carer for one child let alone two! And it's not a 9 to 5 job with holidays!

As for crime increasing, I see many examples locally of unemployed people living more comfortably than they should be able to on benefits alone, so perhaps there is already an aspect of crime in their lives that pays very well?