Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Wasn't sure wether to post this in the 'child benefit thread ' so if any admin staff wish to merge it then feel free


link
It's a good idea and long past it's due but the jobs have to be there for people to take in the first place

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Puts things into perspective really, £500 a WEEK, and that is still classed as acceptable. I need to start breeding. :D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11463435

I think it is a bit harsh on carers.:(

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

That would be the highest amount though ,for families with loads of kids.My main concern is how much this will affect the kids of said families as a large amount of these families will be the 'serial claimants' who think more of there fags and sky than thier kids .I can see a rush of disability claims coming

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Oh yes and I can see any number of genuine claimants having to justify being given disability allowance under mounting pressure because of the need to 'weed' out the scammers.:(

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Totally agree Maggie ,It may even work out that genuine claimants and people who genuinely only want to be unemployed for the short term will end up being penalised if the system is not implemented correctly

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

They said they would not attack the most vulnerable.... instead they are attacking those who look after the most vulnerable.

Maybe it's all a complicated ploy to get Family Carers into work... maybe as Commercial Carers looking after their own disabled family members? No need to pay Carers enough to live on in addition to carers Allowance from Government coffers (e.g. Income Support, Housing Benefit, Community Charge Benefit). The anti-discrimination announcements recently seem to be (in part) a way to get Carers into work in addition to the hours we put in looking after disabled family members.

It's all smoke and mirrors until it's too late to complain....

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

No the government is going to implement a plan to increase proffesional carers payed for by the NHS so that all family carers will be able to go and have a career of their choice knowing that thier disabled loved ones will be looked after in a loving and caring manner .....oops posted in the wrong forum should have put this in the dreamworld forum :D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

If this happens it will do bad damage to the unemployed, l was out of work for nearly six months, and l had to survive on Jobseekers allowance of £72.00 per week and l had to pay rent as well, l got housing benefit, but that was only £15.00 so in total l got £87 per week, and l couldn't surive on that, everything had to go out the window.

What this government will be doing is crucifying the workforce, as there is no decenct work out there.

WHY, WHY does the Tory government always do this when they get into power, Next will be the OAP's, They will rip this country to pieces with there budget cuts, and this is only the start.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Usually because they are repairing the damage done to the economy by the labour party :rolleyes:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

:clap:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

So you got 87 pounds per week. A cap of 500 a week would affect you... how exactly? :confused:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

WHY WHY WHY do you not bother to take in what you have already been told by others and in the news? You still don't get it do you? The interest being paid on the deficit alone, is not sustainable, so unfortunately cuts are needed.

There is a huge huge deficit that is not going to pay itself off, on it's own without some form of control on spending.

Arthur, Labour would have been doing the budget cuts had they still been in power, they just didn't get the chance to announce exactly what they were planning on cutting because they lost power.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

You seem to be getting your rent fully paid and getting an extra £15/week on top of your normal benefits.

The up to £15/week extra in housing benefit is one of the first things that should be stopped for everybody, as why should somebody get extra just because they live in a certain area.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

If the Tories bring out this so called Universal Benefit, everyone will suffer, does this mean that if they are going to stop certain benefits, they will stop benefitd being sent abroad by the claimants, which they do.

I have said all along, the Tories have to start on there own doorstep, l voted Lib Dems in the elections, but l won't do that again.

This government has to bring hope for this country, where there is work, at the moment there isn't any, my job is on the line due to these budget cuts, and l won't be happy if l lose it.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

What are you talking about?

This thread was about a cap on benefits, you're now discussing the welfare reform which hasn't actually had many details announced.

You started off by complaining about the level of benefit you received before this coalition was in office that wouldn't get touched by this benefit cap.

What doorstep is it the Tories have to start on? Your income tax is going down, mine is going up due to slippage of the tax boundaries and we as a family are losing Child Benefit. Along with this we're all getting a VAT rise and other pain. The Tories and Lib Dems are doing their utmost to share the pain but cannot simply wring the wealthiest dry because they're the people who pay the most taxes and attempting to bleed them results in getting no taxes at all.

You're already not happy and prophesying the end of the world as we know it, I dread to think what you'll be like if you lose your job and actually get a genuine reason to complain.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Won't be long till we see a rise in crime then!

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

At least they'll be doing something to earn a living in that case. Can send them to the prison factories once they're caught ;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Oh my, I never thought of that..everyone committing crime just to get a job..:D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

£500 a week gees i wish i don't even get half that and consider myself to be quite lucky i am not convinced anyone cannot live on that amount a week no matter how many kids and if they cannot it is because they are doing things they can afford to give up. Not going to bother replying to Arthur just be easier for me to stand up and smack my head against a wall be more benficial as well. Labour never fully outlined their plans because they knew damn well they wouldn't be in power to implement it although to his credit darling did say it would be worse then thatcher in the eighties. Everyone is going to feel the financial pain of labours glourious reign and i can only hope people remember who dropped us into this massive hole in the first place and don't allow the pain of dealing with it to allow them back in anytime soon.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

So true

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I think that it is only too easy to view the upcoming changes and implications with a blinkered view based on how it affects us as individuals. So far the changes mean little to me as I have never relied in any way on government handouts but I truly fear for the general implications to others because if masses of people are affected the impact of their anger will control everybody's quality of life.

Apart from the almost certain hundreds of thousands that will lose jobs in the public sector it looks like the cap on the social safety net will disrupt potentially hundreds of thousands more (nationwide).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...tion-movements

The stress creating social implications could easily be eventually coming to a place near you and I. The misery endured by my generation through the 70's and early 80's look like nothing compared with the outcome of the coalition plans.

There is no doom and gloom predictions on my part but straightforward cause and consequence. It is not possible to withdraw the financial lifeblood from what may turn out to be millions of people without backlash and at times it could get ugly.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I think it will turn ugly. people live to exist, and when you make it difficult for them they'll get a bit miffed.
society is bad enough. but to upset society even more we can only expect the consequences.

These sacrifices have to be made to aid recovery. do you think the average man on the street cares about that, and that he has to lose out in order to contribute to the fix?

he won't. if he loses out, he'll take back what he's lost from someone else.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

A nice Guardian article, however surely if all these people are being forced out of areas of high housing demand won't others take their place? After all if there is such high demand for housing in these areas there will be people queuing up to live there, say like those who are presently priced out by high housing benefit and living in the suburbs.

Private landlords are full of it. They know exactly what they are doing, charging as much rent as the councils will pay, and they know that they can't get away with it they either lower the rents or their properties are vacant, they'll have to charge legitimate market rates rather than using the local authority housing benefit caps as a price list.

I get the point but think it should be queried how fair it is for those who are presently priced out of these high demand areas to be paying the rent of some of those living there. They are, in effect, paying taxes to price themselves out of some areas.

I hope that once this market distorting effect is gone the population movements will balance out. Here's hoping.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I wonder if this will have any bearing on the housing benefit cap?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11470285

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I have to say that this whole housing benefits thing stinks. We're talking about a cap on benefits that is equivalent to the average full-time salary before tax, and much of it is taken up by housing benefit. As much as I am in favour of a benefits system that gives people a half decent standard of living, I find it hard to justify a system that pays a family the average salary. It seems to me that there is little incentive for these people to get back to work (and I'm all too aware that many of these people are not going to walk into jobs that are in increasingly short supply) as they are likely to earn less than on benefits, and in all likelihood would have to move somewhere cheaper if they got back into work.

Yes, that's one of your resident left whingers speaking.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Thing is Daniel not all of us claimants get anywhere near that amount and i would bet the majority do not even come close. Yes there are people getting that but they are a minority and not representative of claimants as a whole. Sadly there is little political leverage in making the true facts available and it is far better to highlight the blatent excesses rather then the reality that many live with day to day. Just totalled ours up including housing benefit we get £12,452 a year which is good for a benefit system but not as extravagent as some would like the working population to believe.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

This is a genuine question as my comprehension isn't at its' finest today.

Am I reading this correctly Daniel, seems you are saying that housing benefits can be overly generous and can provide people a better quality of life than they could make through working as they remove the cost of housing as an 'issue', which in turn allows them to live in areas their earning potential wouldn't allow them to?

If I am we agree twice in two days, bet you feel dirty now :D

You're very right of course, the purpose of any welfare state should be a safety net to ensure a minimum standard and quality of life, nothing more and definitely nothing less.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

That is exactly what I'm saying, and I'm indeed feeling very dirty indeed. :)

Yes, and we probably disagree on what the minimum standard should be. Personally, I am convinced there are many people that will probably never get back into work, and paying them the absolute minimum and have them live in ghettos (which we have plenty of as it is) is not a society I want to live in (if only cause they will nick my telly). Paying people the equivalent of the average wage before tax just so they can live in a nice house isn't on though.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I would hope the working population aren't naive enough to think that although many are regrettably.

Welfare bills are too high because of two things, too many people on it (function of the economy and of idle-itis) and the outliers you mention.

What you receive isn't good. It is, I hope, adequate to keep you running until you are either able to leave the welfare system or to keep you going if you are unable to leave the welfare system.

Most of the talk has to, necessarily, be about getting rid of the outliers and disincentivising idle-itis simply because that's where a lot of the action has to be. Along with that giving the appropriate conditions for economic growth to reduce the other contributor and all is good.

Or would be, but it has to be done within the context of massive structural budget deficits. :(

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

Actually read my post above, I suspect we don't disagree as much as you think. Certainly the average wage after tax is unacceptable, thankfully this is a small minority largely feeding unscrupulous landlords with housing benefit. Get rid of that minority and the rents have to go down to market rate which helps out with scarcity of housing. Win:win.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Actually, it's worse. It's the average wage before tax. But yes, it needs stamping out.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

We manage not always great but enough for saying i am not working and now never likely too. I have always agreed the benefit culture needs stopping and that there are some on it who have no real need or reason to be on it bar they make a choice to not work. I am worried as are most genuine claimants that a nice big wide brush is going to be applied to the system in order to clear out quite obvious problems within it.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

That's the problem though; Everyone agrees abuse of the system must stop and only genuine claimants receive benefit but the problem is defining a genuine claimant and tackling the system without impacting on the innocent.

This is an example of how 'genuine claimant' is difficult to define:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nadine-dorries

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

The reality though is that most attempts to tackle abuse end up hurting many genuine claimants.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

That shouldn't deter the government from trying.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

We have the usual load of apologisers for the Tories coming out from under their stones, the country was put in this mess by their friends, the international bankers, and their casino type lending to countries and people who, could not hope to pay it back,but they still trousered the obscene bonuses their Ladbrokes mentality got them, as for benefits, the U.K. has the lowest benefit payments in Europe,and if thatchers children really want to get some money back, go after the "Tax Avoiders" like Danny Alexander;who said his flat in London was his second home, benefit=£37,000 allowances, but his main home to the taxman-doesn't pay Capital-Gains tax, or Sir Philip Green, put his company in the wife's name,=Tax-Free £12,000,000 dividend, so go after the REAL benefit thieves and believe me, there are plenty of them, look in the Tory, Lib-dem, and and Labour parties,and big business, I don't think the mrs mopps and the other working- class black economy mob are in the same League as the Real Scroungers that seem to infest these pages will trot out the usual rubbish about benefit thieves, but i bet most of them are tax avoiders.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Remember, Mrs Punctuation and Master Appropriate-Spacing are Mr Easy-To-Read's friends.....

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

wow £15 quid a week! don't think the receipent gets the dough in their hands, it goes to council, bang goes that£15 quid :dunce:

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Thought we wre disgusting beneefits, not educaton, p.s. donut wurry peepul wull get the drft;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I was trying to be helpful - if you want to get your message across, it is more likely if it is easy to read and understand.

Or perhaps you were just having a rant?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

What's wrong with Tax avoidance?

If I knew of a loophole to avoid tax, I'd use it.

rather than "go after" the tax avoiders, close the loophole.

If you run a system that can be taken advantage, don't start crying when people take advantage of it.

Now tax evasion, is different.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

DWP page on Local Housing Allowance
So who's the :dunce:?

Eg if the rent is £90/week and the LHA rate for the area is £105 or more then the claimant gets £105/week(£15 extra). If the LHA rate was £100/week then they would get £100/week(£10 extra).

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

What's the difference? so if people take advantage of the benefit system without the help of sleezy accountants they're wrong, but on the other hand tax avoiders do the same with accountants it's o k, so what you crying about somebody who does a wee job on the side, as YOU say, take advantage of it; its All tax evasion mate!

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:06 ----------

don't know anyone who gets h.b. in their hand, as for spouting Gov lit,at me, cant you think for yourself, I'm not really interested in Gobbleday gook.:dunce:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

HB can be paid to the tenant or the landlord... it's up to the tenant... which is why so many landlords are being stiffed payments month after month until they go through an expensive legal procedure to get the defaulting tenants out.

It's common practice amongst the Czech Roma hereabouts. I know because I have known then gleefully withholding rent to spend it on booze, sporty but clapped-out cars, and widescreen TVs. They have found a way to get free accomodation for extended periods... but landlords are spreading the word amongst themselves (only to have the race card thrown at them for refusing to rent to Czech Roma).

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

most people will understand, darling:p:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

The current system is ridiculously skewed towards benefit dependency and having to claim for so many different things. As the whole system is so bureaucratic it makes for too many ways to abuse the system and too many ways for people to fall between the cracks and lose out.

I get most annoyed with those talking about "child poverty" who seem to think throwing money at the poor will actually do anything about this. There must be more effective and better ways of improving the lot of children directly, which ensures the help needed actually reaches the ones who need it. All that seems to have happened with it so far is creating families who are better off claiming than working.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

agree entirely there's another mob does the same,they get, duck houses, wisteria bushes sorted,and lots of other goodies, and we can't get them out. they're called M.P.s, the Roma have nothing on them.

---------- Post added at 15:39 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------

yes, sense at last, all we have to do is get people decent jobs with a decent wage, dead easy! as for throwing money at the poor, how come they are still poor, if they are getting all this cash.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Many people with a mortgage these days are poor :D

There is no simple answer to solving the problems. However simplifying and combining tax and benefits and social security must be more cost effective. Can you see any government actually doing such a thing though?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Nope, one is playing by the rules one isn't.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

there is something I would do, take the money of the bankers, let them take their questionable talents elsewhere, it might be a little simplistic, but, boy would i get satisfaction out of it,they are still paying themselves huge bonuses, why not make them pay instead of the Mrs Mopps who gets 20 quid a week on the side.

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ----------

yes and who makes the rules?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Well if you don't trust any of the parties, which it seems you don't, I suggest you take a sabbatical to South America, raise a private army and come back and start a revolution.

Overthrow the goverment, write a new constitution and divide the nations wealth between its citizens.

Either that or don't caught doing your cash jobs....................

I don't actually have any issue with a self employed tradesman or handy man doing the odd cash job. No skin off my nose.

I do object to people that are claiming benefits working on the side, I would quite happily shop anyone I knew that was doing that.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Don't believe in privatisation, look where it's got us, skint, as for your recommendations, well, waken up, and hopefully you'll let your friends know your an informer, what do you get? £20 a time

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

As I have always advocated the cradle to the grave scrounger who has never had any intention of working in their lifetime should receive vouchers not cash and be clothed from a central clothing store where the primary colour of the clothes are beige.

The should not be an option for cash for these people.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

How are you going to determine who is and who isn't eligible for the vouchers and free biege clothes?

if it became the rage in fashion and everyone wanted some. what colour would you change it to, to make them feel like they're outcasts and not fashion makers?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

you'll have to change the colour: beige has already been claimed by pensioners;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

With big buttons.:D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

One East European family I am aware of that were living in Roath played that trick. (I am not sure which East European country they were from)

They were collecting benefits and moved out after owing many months of rent, he discovered they had done the same thing at their previous rented property. The landlord eventually traced them to an address in Newport, he traced the owner of the property and discovered they were 3 months behind on rent with the new landlord.

I understand from the Roath landlord that many landlords in Cardiff now have an agreement that they share this information, and once on the unofficial list there is little chance of renting a property. One of the landlords with multiple properties responsible for the list is a big guy, who does not hesitate to deal with offenders of this nature.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

The problem with HB as far as private landlords are concerned is that it is part of the claimants entitlement so the landlord has no right to that money and cannot insist that the rent be paid directly to him ,would it be possible to remove HB from peoples claim and call it something thing else ,let's say rent assistance for example that way the rent would then be able to be paid directly to the landlord

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------


Are you working ?, if so try to work out how much of your tax is paying for someone to sit on the dole while doing a "bit on the side" ,then try to work out how much better off we would be if we could take the scroungers off the dole and get them to pay tax on their "bit on side"

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Oh no! I hate beige..:mad:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

http://www.beigeplus.com/

looks ok to me :D

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Are you working ?, if so try to work out how much of your tax is paying for someone to sit on the dole while doing a "bit on the side" ,then try to work out how much better off we would be if we could take the scroungers off the dole and get them to pay tax on their "bit on side"[/QUOTE]

i refuse to pay any more for my "bit on the side". She does ok by me :D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

So the over 3.5bn quid the tax man is getting out of their round of bonuses isn't enough?

You overtax the rich and let them take their questionable talents elsewhere you lose 100% of their tax intake. Then who pays the bills?

It's not only a little simplistic it's downright stupid and suicidal.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Well no, we as a country are skint due to overspend on public services, we as people will shortly be skint due to having to have taxes hiked to pay back for the overspend on public services. Privatisation has generally lowered the price of goods and services thanks to free market and competition (See BT as an example) but let's not let facts get in the way.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

A certain Pakistani, who has a huge string of addresses rented out, is well known for not waiting for the legal system to evict non-payers, etc. They seem to vanish into the night, then turn up at the Council offices "demanding rehousing" hoping that the Council has not yet been contacted by this particular landlord. He catches them though... and has followed some as far as Hull for his money.

At least 2 of his houses that I personally know of were trashed and stripped of anything that could be sold (including water pipes, taps, radiators and light fittings).

Another house of his was rented to a young Czech Roma couple with a babe-in-arms. He was alerted to ELEVEN adults and several children sharing it a week later. He waited for them to go out, emptied all their belongings onto the pavement, then changed the locks.

That same night they broke back in and were found by the landlords "cleaning team" ;) who "advised them to leave the property immediately".

Every property he rented to these people now receive a steady stream of Red Notices from every possible form of financial institution, plus Baliff visits which really upset the new tenants.

He now has a zero-tolerance policy against Czech Roma.

To return to the thread subject, I wonder if it will only be unemployed who will suffer this cap. Or will people on low-incomes and/or people with low incomes and large families be capped as well? I ask this as the Czech Roma family who lived very close to us brought in under £150 per week wages, but at least £500 per week in benefits (mainly due to their young children and babies).

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

certainly about time people 100% dependant on MY tax suffer, they live (in general) a better life (as far as luxuries go) than me.

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

roma in general are a problem for everybody, france is doing the correct thing

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Already stated above the cradle to the grave people who have no interest or willingness to work, I stick with beige.;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Does that include everyone on benefits ? and how exactly should they suffer?

I hope you only mean people with no intention of ever working apart from fiddling on the side ,as that is usually how people on benefits have more luxuries than those working ....unless of course they already had the 70"plasma ,car,and house before they lost their job

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

100% dependant means people who are 100% dependant on benefits ?

if they have a nice car great i am happy for them, they lose there job fair enough i have been through it it isn't nice, but then why should I (as all honest workers) pay to run his car ? pay for the electricity he uses in the viewing pleasure of a stupid big tv ?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Nothing like a sweeping generalisation to carry the debate forward....;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

because it's a welfare system ,it's supposed to help people in need .There are plenty of people on that system 100% dependant 100% of the time through no fault of their own .I daresay there are also people who sell their tv's ,cars and homes when they lose their job but remain 100% dependant on the welfare system ,a system i might add that you are also 100% dependant on ...ever heard of the NHS :rolleyes:

The problem we have nowadays is that the system originally designed when people had jobs for life and only used as a safety net has become a system out of control and relyed upon by some people as a way of life

I don't agree with the war in Afganistan so why should you be 100%dependant on my taxes when you join up ?

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------


biggest brush in history of cf methinks;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

yeah,, and yes the 3.3 billion quid isn't enough, if they can pay that off bonuses, after what they've done to this country and others, take the lot of their (earnings?) it would probably pay the national debt, if privatisation has generally lowered the prices of everything? why are we paying through the nose, for everything, or do you live in a part of the country immune to price changes, B.T., like all the utilities, thatcher, and her crew saw what could be made from them by the captains of industry(those people who sit with the F.T. and watch their shares(really hard workers) but, to make a bit of money, the industries had to be streamlined, yes, you've guessed, pay of hundreds of thousands of workers, the usual method of making money employed by entrepreneurs,really clever, the correct name for that lot is Asset-Strippers, so give us a break with all this **** about privatisation.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

He sounds familiar, a big lump of a guy if I am thinking of the same one. I was stood on the corner of Clifton Street/Broadway with my GF a few months ago, and the guy we were talking to that she knew suddenly ran off for no reason. I then got to find out that he had spotted the big Pakistani guy pull up in a car and he owed him money. lol

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I'm not sure how old you are but i remember the financial mess this country was in when all the utilities (gas ,electric,water,)not to mention car,steel, mining ,rail industries ect. were in the hands of the government they were all grossly over staffed ,had millions per year pumped into them to pay wages despite making massive losses and costing the tax payer billions at 70's monetary value ,it very nearly bankrupted the country trying to keep these state owned companies afloat that were technically bankrupt anyway

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Pretty simple views from masque, where's the jobs? I mean something that'll pay the groceries, a decent lifestyle, without having to apply for any benefits, the majority of the captains of industry don't pay the minimum wage, instead they, yes , they, arrange for these immigrants to come here, and you'll never get rid of them as it suits the great and the good to have them, Vince Cable was trying to get exceptions not that long ago, so get of the backs of our own people, and look more closely at your elected betters

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

My age doesn't matter, all the industries you mention were in the hands of Private(enterprise) before world war 2, if you know your history,you'll know the treatment workers got pre-war, that's why Mr Churchill lost the election, people did not want to go back to the days of "the masters and doffing caps", Captains of industry,entrepreneurs, don't make laugh,they are all chancers.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Are you going to actually debate, or are you just going to hark back to the 30s and be abusive continually?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

well obviously your not too clued up, we have to hark back to history, to try and learn from mistakes, and I'm sorry my point of view offends you, but I'm as entitled to my views, as you are, and I think you should think about your own position,which doesn't seem to be very moderate.:rolleyes:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I would be grateful if you could point out my immoderate posts in this thread, unlike you, who has called others

- usual load of apologisers for the Tories
- the Real Scroungers that seem to infest these pages
- spouting Gov lit,at me, cant you think for yourself
- hopefully you'll let your friends know your an informer

Your views do not offend me - I find them amusing, lacking in fact, and, quite honestly, the ravings of bemused class-warrior who doesn't realise that the Militant Tendency is dead and buried...

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Come on ladies. we don't want any handbag fights in here. we just want to discuss the topic not each other.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tammac (Post 35104099) Pretty simple views from masque, where's the jobs?

I take that you have not read the part where I mention that I am refering to the Cradle to the Grave Scrounger who has no intention Ever and I mean Ever of Looking for or Taking a Job as that is not the Kind of Person that they have been brought up to be.

So PLEASE read my post and do not spout Drivel along the lines of Where are the Jobs? when you know full well that the people I am refering to would never ever get out of bed to take a Job as they get their money for free.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Well blow my britches, do you find all that offensive? easily hurt, but your right about militant tendency, another bunch of chancers, who morphed into "New Labour" think we should call it a day on this one Hugh, your pretty far right if those quotes offend you, I'll forget about your stereotyped replies, where did you get them? Thatchers Book, "how to be a good Tory".

---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

Like your mask, Zorro, we need people like you to point us in the (RIGHT) direction, are you and Hugh related?. Give them decent jobs first, then come back and tell me how many refuse, wouldn't mind yours, it seems pretty easy,looking for posts you disagree with, or,are you working for nothing.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Oh-kaayyyyy.

I think we can safely ignore you from now on.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Are you really that naive or stupid to actually believe a Cradle to the Grave Scrounger would ever take a job when they can get everything for free, even if you gave these people £5000 a week they would do very little as they want everything for nothing.

If you think money would motivate this kind of person then you are wearing blinkers or are a hand wringing fool who thinks these people actually want to work when in reality they think we are the stupid people for working.

If you think for a moment that I am right wing then you need to wake up and smell the coffee, I doubt you even know where the Militant Tendency headquarters was based or the road.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I think he's exaggerating with the £5,000 thing. them scroungers would kill and maim for a fraction of that :)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Maybe but they still would not work for it.;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

To answer your( rants) 1- I don't know where the Militant Tendency h.q.was,or is, do they still exist? you seem to know more than me, are you a closet militant?2-Never met a Cradle to the grave scrounger, closest I've come is" the royals". 3-Thought it was money that motivated these "scroungers", you'll need to try and marshal your argument a bit better, your bosses might think your losing your touch.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

If you were to put them in the job. without them having to have an interview or make their own way there to get the job. I think they'd all snap it up.

just don't disappoint them all now, and make the job impossible :)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

As I expected you do not have a clue and just felt the need to have a little rant with the pretence of being a left winger, I thought as much.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/01/28.gif

Sorry but Google does not actually have the address of the headquarters you just have to know that one, and I was never a member as I disliked Derek Hatton for some strange reason.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/04/8.gif

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

You lose!

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

No actually you do as you do not have a clue.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/13.gif

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Only new here, but are The masque, Hugh, and Chris one ,and the same?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I'm guessing he won't be around very long...

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I think the above post says it all.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/13.gif

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Now,Now, where's all the rhetoric went too.? think we can safely let neutral members judge, or are you lot judge and Jury?

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I do not see any of THIS in the teams post when speaking to you as they are not moderating you.

As I said above people who do not want to work or have no intention of ever working in their lifetime should not be given cash but vouchers as they have no need of money, and nor do they need a passport as they would have no money to travel abroad.:D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I think its worthwile remembering some things or having other facts as well about what fraud actually costs the tax payer money , yes benefits need to be sorted but Tax evasion costs the tax payer around 15 times more than benefit fraud.

from the most recent data 2008 - 2009 as 2009 - 2010 has not yet been made availible publicly in pdf yet.

Tax evasion = £15 billion per year
Benefit fraud = £1 billion.

To put that in perspective...

Tax evasion = 3% total tax liabilities
Benefit fraud = 0.8% of total benefit payments

Financial services industry fraud = £3.8 billion
Mortgage fraud = £1 billion
Insurance fraud = £2 billion
Share sale fraud and public lottery / loan scams= £3.5 billion

All actual figures from 2008 - 2009 the most recent that the government use also here for FOI compliance and in pdf format direct from the Attorney General . gov .co.uk himself

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/nf..._indicator.pdf


but you will only hear 1 on the TV and in adverts with more spent on detection more than the others despite some that considering the bigger loss to the tax payer maybe should probably have more of the tax payers money spent getting those higher ones under control .

It doesnt matter which governments been in the proportion spent on detection has never been in proportion to the amount of loss to the tax payer.

Its also worthwhile remembering that the tax payer pays for all those losses / fraud and maybe that 8 billion of benefits go unclaimed by people that are genuinely entitled going by recent figures too , where do you think those go , are they ever made aware or made too embarrassed to claim what they paid into the system for many years by the stigma created by demonizing adverts .

I cant find a a breakdown of unclaimed here at the moment but from couple of years ago... its unlikely to be less


Unclaimed housing benefit / council tax / JSA / pension credit / other support = £8 bn
Unclaimed working tax credits = £5 bn

and they do back those figures up themselves , but you wont see all that or the bank bail outs as widely publiscised as the benefit fraud campaign by any government , never has been never will imo , stigmatize the benefits you pay for , keep those contributing the most fighting amongst themselves and pointing the finger to themselves and less claim the money that has been allocated

Only my opinion of course but its always piddled me off in a way that people in the UK never ever seem to get up in arms about the big big losses to their contributions to the country and always buy into the adverts that really account for so little especially when many many court cases of benefit fraud are also dropped after spending more than the loss .

There are also a massive amount of mistakes and over payments etc that cost more than the payment itself to get back if it ever is .

In my own opinion theres much much more to fraud and mistakes resulting in losses from the tax payer than the relatively small amount of benefit fraud the vast amount of it is also a percentage that will always exist in any sector and impossible to eradicate .

Id prefer it really that if more of my tax goes to help protect my tax from fraud then it gets spent on investigations proportionate to the fiddle rather than spent on adverts and investigations that always demonize the needy and scare others into not claiming

There may not be anything about the real fraud against the tax payer that the tax payer can actually ever do in the UK but although its a problem the girl that has just had a kid and been given a flat or the guy claiming really benefit and spending it on cheap tramp juice really really is not the biggest problem.

Beside which the days of moonlighting whilst signing have pretty much disappeared and those sort of people unless jobs reappear and the situation improve they can only shift from1 benefit to another with the end result back on benefits unless everyone wants loads of homeless roaming around committing crime .

Come on ffs start pointing the finger the right way and stop believing the ********e propaganda about the worse off.

The top few percent always manage to pull the wool over the tax payers eyes whilst they themselves evade as well as taking the highest wages before investing it all in theirs and their families futures elsewhere.

Will it change - probably not Cameron and Osbourne will just play exactly the same games and wont be in the UK after they have done their stint , the rest is pretty much the same as the Xfactor really , get the people to believe they can get as rich as the rich with talent / hard work and investing their own money in a voting system to select a winner who was never a nobody anyway and then fook off with the proceeds

smell the coffee!!

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Bless........:D

As I previously stated, high on amusement factor and vituperative diatribe, v. low on facts and common sense; your posts bring to mind Engels' Third Law of Dialectics.;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Here we go, same old stuff, is this another of your many talents, picking out people who don't intend to work, as I've said before, where's the jobs? me and you won't be agreeing as I don't have the ability to pick out cradle-to-the-grave-scroungers, or those who do not want to work, I'm not militant red under the bed or any of the rest of the stuff you get out of the Sun or the News of the World, this isn't much of a site as it seems to be all virgin media staff posting threads,but i've never read so much right -wing drivel in years.

---------- Post added at 23:46 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

Who is Engels? What is Dialectics? could Dialectics be, word of mouth? if so, is his third law about WRITTEN posts or have you just made this all up? you better forget the big words if you don't know what they mean.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

For the cognitively challenged members (that's the ones with one hemisphere less than most of us.):

Dialectic

Engels

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

don't have to go to your urls Dialects=A form of language SPOKEN in a particular Geographical area, anyway over and out, won't be on this site again,its full of b---------s, and they all seem to work for Virgin Media, (Mumbai branch).

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Bye bye! :wavey:

Oh, Hugh was talking about dialectics. Not dialects :)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

You really do not have a clue do you as how the real world actually works at all, I as with many people know people that fit this criteria and have never worked nor have any intention of ever working, if you believe this not to be so then you are living in a dream world and must love the movie Vanilla Sky.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

What if it ends up costing more than the sum of the benefits paid out to find out? :erm:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Where to start where to start Tammac if you havn't met a cradle to the grave scrounger then you clearly don't get out much because even where i live in a small town i know at least five who no matter how good the job, how good the pay wouldn't touch it because it would mean actually getting up and doing something. Your quite good at throwing the closet tory insult around but here's the problem it wasn't the tories that put us in this mess it wasn't them who expanded the public sector to massive unsustainable size all for the sake of manipulating unemployment figures a practice which labour has a good track record of.

Bankers have some blame in all of this no doubt but again the labour party worshipped at the alter of bankers turned what little effective regulation there was into a total and utter joke and allowed the crisis to hit us harder then it ever should. No doubt i now fit your profile of right wing tory apologist and in some ways i am right wing in others left wing i choose what bests serves my personal beliefs. I am also a benefit claimant on incapacity benefit and unlikely to ever work again much to my personal shame and i am sick and tired of seeing the same old bunch of lead swingers constantly taking the system for a ride and turning what was once moderate public opinion into near hatred for claimants.