Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

29 long hours they let it go on for. just put a few mattresses underneath him and push the idiot off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-11448726

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

At last, I know a good number of People I know were moaning they couldn't get in to town for Work.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

There were plenty of opportunities to 'grab' him from what I heard. 29 hours though where he was in control. ridiculous. what's the worst that could have happened? he'd get 28 hours of attention?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

'grab him'

Don't give up the day job to pursue a career in negotiations.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

He was walking around within reach of a 'grabber' elf and safedy says no. let it drag on a bit longer.

if it was anything else, they wouldn't let it go on so long.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

:rolleyes:

And when the 'grabber' either missed or didn't get a decent hold of him and he fell to his death that would all be fine would it? :dozey:

Letting it drag on isn't ideal but there really are very few options to deal with this type of situation.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

There was a picture of him almost right next to the copper. a distance away from the fence. there were even eye witnesses saying the same thing. one thought it was a TV program being made until he heard that it was actually real.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

So if the cop had made a grab for him, missed, and he fell to his death would you be happy?

I've seen footage of someone making a grab for someone on a bridge. It didn't end well. :(

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Here's a pic of how close to jumping he was.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4...mpyouidiot.jpg

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

You really are beginning to irritate me Gary L with your boring and pointless topics. :rolleyes:

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Its current affairs, no more pointless than many other topics in here :)

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Fair point. ;)

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

You bore me with yours too, Mick :rolleyes: :)

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

How about we get back to the topic now.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I owe you no apology for that, so glad I cannot acommodate your *apparent* racist and anti-muslim agenda.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Peope were actually swearing at him and telling him to hurry up and jump.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

And how do you know that ?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Know what?
that people were swearing at him and telling him to jump?

it was in the Birmingham Mail.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Yes let's do that.

So here we have Gary L mocking the fact that it took 28+ hours to remove someone who was attempting suicide. His complete no-brainer idea is to push the person on to mattresses, useless idea if ever I heard one. The Police have polices and procedures to follow, don't let that escape your warped forward thinking Gary L.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

So, because others did that you feel the need to stoop equally as low. Wow ... :dozey:

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Obviously the mattresses would be one of them things that the fireman all hold running backwards and forwards with.

---------- Post added at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

Ok, I'm being attacked here. I'll retreat.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Attacked ? No. Being shown up for what you are ? Yes.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Err, what's that then? having an opinion about a man that threatened to jump off a bridge and distrupted peoples lives. and the police letting it drag on for 29 hours?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Thats for you to figure out, and others to clearly see. If I were you though, id hurry up, as some of the insanely stupid comments you make are taking you ever closer to that early bath from Cable Forum (you are currently one red infraction away from a permanant ban). There will also be no more discussion about it in this thread, as its completely irrelevant to the topic.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I won't say anymore. I think others can clearly see what's going on.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

They didn't let it 'drag on' as you put it. They need to keep the person calm and try to talk them down. You can't rush negotiations when it comes to stuff like this.

Yea they can see that you aren't that smart.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Does your unit have a professional trained 'Grabber'? :D

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

They got him down in the end. that's all that matters now

Ignored.

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

Here's the Brummie ones :D

http://www.birminghammail.net/multim...7319-27380252/

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Grease all the parapets! If they go up there to jump it'll speed things up!

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

What did he do for the toilet? he must have had to use the toilet in 28 - 29 hours?
did they give him a bottle and a screen, or did he go inside the shopping centre?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

How utterly puerile.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

:zzz:

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It's a valid question. I bet nobody else thought of it.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

You're probably right - it hadn't occurred to me (I'm pleased to say).

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Toilet jokes about a man contemplating ending his life? Yep, I bet nobody else thought of it. Just you, Gary.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It's not a joke. if he was a paedophile contemplating jumping for 29 hours it still wouldn't be a joke.

he must have had to go to the toilet for a number 2. hopefully Derek can tell us what happens in this kind of situation. especially one that lasts as long as this one did.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

The fact that you simply can't see what an inappropriate direction you're going with this is very sad and, I fear, speaks volumes about you.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

The whole thread speaks volumes Chris.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It's a valid question though, the guy was stood outside for over 29 hours in birmingham, irrespective of his state of mind there must have been times when bodily functions were a problem, nature must have had an influence sometime during the problem, not to mention fatigue etc. Hell, with him being on the 'safe' side of the railings there must have been opportunities for Taser usage etc, get him on the ground, get him to a safer location then deal with the psychological issues. Deploy an airbag where he will land, etc etc.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I agree. there were times when he was away from the railings when they could have used a taser. 1 man brought the city to a halt for 29 hours. if he was threatning to jump for anything such as he just shot a copper or raped someone. they would have took him down a lot sooner.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

And while he sees such air bag being set up, decides to jump before it can be pumped with air and put in situ, you cannot just rush in to this with stupid and totally insensitive ideas about pushing people over railings or shooting people with bloody taser guns. People's lives were disrupted for a day or so (No big deal at the end of the day when you talking about a Human Life) and noone had to lose their lives because of it.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

That's not the question that was asked. What was asked was:

Which, sadly, is a typically crass comment of the kind often made by the member in question. Also typical is his backpedalling, now he's been pulled up for it ... in this case by pretending he was trying to make a serious point.

I think most people reading this thread can see the distasteful facts of the matter though.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I perceived it as more or less the same question, just different styles of asking. One having more discretion than the other, however to continue along this line would take the subject off topic. (I say this as the matter is being dealt with without bold being used indicating this is a discussion as members not a moderating matter)

The point remains though, surely there must have been times when restraint, even forceful restraint would have been viable, yet they were not used. I would think had the incident occurred in the US then the matter would have been resolved earlier.

As for the airbag option - simple, load it on a truck then drive it into place, while his back is turned to the railing as was clearly evident in the photo Gary placed he's not to know what's pulling up below him, especially if the bag is already inflated, or tarp over stacks of cardboard boxes (also used for arresting falls by stuntmen) There is a plethora of available fall arrest systems available that are used in this kind of jump.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

There was nothing wrong with what I said. it was a serious point. do you really think people are going to gasp in disgust if it were asked on the news?

I think most people can see a bit more than what you think.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

And the difference in those scenarios is that he would have been a danger to others, rather than an inconvenience.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Why would he be a danger to anyone?

It wouldn't have been allowed to happen if it were next week. and it wouldn't have lasted near as long if it were in London.

next week is the Cons conference.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It would last as long as needed no matter where and when it was.

Look at the Raol Moat case, the Police took their time and tried to talk him down but ultimately he was a danger to others and himself.

I don't know your age but you don't seem to have much of a social understanding or common sense when it comes to certain situations or events.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

A Taser is a method of non-lethal restraint designed to immobilize by affecting the central nervous system. Like I said, get him down on the ground, then to a safer location then deal with the psychological issues, to get someone into an environment where they are no longer a threat to themselves or others is hardly a bloody stupid idea. Especially given it was reasonably evident he was only seeking attention anyway.

Remember this Mick, those who are serious about suicide don't tell anyone, don't threaten to jump, they simply do it. This guy threatened for 29 hours, at least part of the time he was on the 'safe' side of the railings. This gives opportunities to restrain him, tasering him would have put him on the ground, therefore not likely to hop the railings when the cop approached, hardly a stupid idea really is it?

(Incidentally Mick, if I may go off topic for a moment - your PM system seems to be disabled currently or I would have sent this message via PM rather than in the forum, however as you are posting as a member and not as a mod / admin I am taking this to mean I am welcome to disagree with your opinion)

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

That's just assumption on your part though. you may be wrong.

I mean if it was on the popes route last week. do you think they'd tell him he'll have to wait till tomorrow?

I'm of the age to have a clear understanding. Stephen.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:41 ----------

I think that's the thing. the 29 hours it took. if it had been just a few hours then nobody would be asking questions.

and I strongly agree with what you said about the serious suicide people.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I'm astounded by the number of armchair coppers on this forum. Or are some of you in fact experienced in Police work, specifically in negotiating techniques?

This is a very specialised and difficult field. I would very much like to know who here actually knows what they're talking about.

:)

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

When a friend of mine's husband committed suicide he did it in private, where no-one would know and no-one would be able to stop him.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Completely wrong - That is just a Myth.

Samaritans site says the following:-

http://www.samaritans.org/your_emoti...t_suicide.aspx


You know I have my PM system off from time to time in which case you have e-mailed in before now, if you cannot get hold of me, you complained about this to another team member before and just so you know, I am quite entitled to have my PM system turned off. Also note that you can disagree with me just as much as I can disagree with you, I have never said/done anything to the contrary.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

The alternative scenarios you mentioned involved rape or shooting - are those not a danger to someone?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

In this case though. do people think he was serious or after attention?

if people think he was serious, then you have to ask, he still didn't want to do it after 29 hours. and if it wasn't for the fact that he got tired and was 'grabbed' he may have been really serious about jumping for another 29 hours.

it's a bit unfortunate that he's been charged with 'public nuisance'

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Well that doesn't mean it is the same in every case - every suicide or potential suicide case is unique.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

He's already done them. he doesn't have the gun on him.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Not completely wrong, The Samaritans say often, not always.

I disagree, why should so many people have their lives disrupted because of the actions of one man, I doubt anyone has anything but sympathy for people at their lowest ebb however that goes out of the window for me when you have people chucking themselves under tube trains and the like having seen the trauma the drivers go through.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It is still wrong to say that people who talk about suicide don't go through with it. :rolleyes:

Thanks for displaying any true lack of any understanding for people suffering from severe mental health issues, just so you can carry on living your trivial selfish life. :dozey:

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

That's a bit harsh..What about the disruptions that people suffer when accidents occur.Shouldn't we still have sympathy for anyone injured under those circumstances? If you substitute mental illness for injury why should the circumstances be any different?Surely someone threatening to suicide count as mentally ill?So isn't disruption a small price to pay under the circumstances? :erm:

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Nice use of the smillie there, it wasn't me that said some one was completely wrong only to be contradicted by their own link.


Oh right I am being selfish because I don't like seeing friends traumatised just doing there jobs and in one case unable to return to work because of it and I wouldn't call what they go through trivial either.

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------

Would they have charged him if they genuinly thought he was mentally ill?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Depends on exactly what he did and what he was charged with plus the police don't have the security of hindsight when dealing with threatened suicides at the time..They cannot be positive about a person's state of mind until said person is diagnosed by an expert.They have to behave as though the person is genuine.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Rubbish - I wasn't contradicted by my own link. What I said, pointed out Lord Nikon's assertion that people who threaten suicide don't carry it out, is not correct.

No 'Oh right' nothing...

Lose the attitude FFS. You were like this the other week - no bloody need for it !

I wasn't calling your so called friends situation trivial - read my post above again.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

But in this case they had hours to assess him. for all we know there were probably times when even the police were getting frustrated with him. knowing that he had no intention of jumping.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Great, so as well as an armchair negotiator now you're and armchair psychiatrist as well.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Just a Psychologist, Chris. nothing more.

and as you can clearly see. I'm not stating fact. so it's called an opinion. just like you're of the opinion that I'm an armchair negotiator and psychiatrist.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

You are truly unbelievable.Again you exhibit a total lack of empathy or understanding.So now the police have to be psychiatrists as well.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

'Opinion' is a very broad term. It reaches from the well-informed at one end, to the idle speculation at the other.

I have my own opinion as to which end of the scale you're on.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

How long does it take you to assess a pupil, or anyone for that matter?
one day we hear about a coppers instinct. what's so different in this case?

29 hours is a very long time for 'anyone' to have an idea about whether someones intention is likely, not so likely, or most definate.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

That's good Chris. if we all had the same opinion then we wouldn't be telling others that theirs is wrong.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I don't assess pupils ... but having been on this forum for 7 years, and moderating it for 6, I think I'm pretty good at spotting when someone's opinion on any particular subject is well-informed.

It may take a fair bit more than 29 hours. But it certainly takes a whole lot less than 3 years.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Can you imagine the average pay packet of a Police Negotiator would want to expect, who suddenly had to acquire the following qualifications, MBBS, M.D., DO, just to be able to assess if someone was serious when they were threatening to jump?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

A few years ago I had no understanding of people who are suicidal or those that have actually gone ahead with it. My thoughts were along the lines of that they are totally selfish or just complete nutters.

Fast forwards those years and there came a time where almost out of the blue I understood why they do it or have the thoughts of it. I now live with constant suicidal thoughts, but I keep it under control. To have those thoughts doesn't make me a nutter or on a danger list, it's more of a coping mechanism and they can be a comfort. I don't think I'd ever act on those thoughts, well I hope not.

The easiest way is to explain it is as if you're on a merry go round that will never ever stop (because of illnesses, pain, depression or whatever problems that can't just be fixed). After so long, you can't take anymore, but you can see that big red button that says 'STOP', knowing it is there helps the mind cope.

The selfish label can also be wrong, take depression for example, it's might be that it's not been taken seriously, there's only so many times you can ask for help, and you're on that merry go round and you're all out of options then to hit that stop button can be appealing. To label someone selfish is totally wrong, it's probaly just everyone else's coping mechanism.

There is no way of telling if this guy would or wouldn't have jumped, the thing is that he got attention, maybe that alone stopped him from jumping, I haven't read the report or know his illnesses or reasons. I hope the guy gets the help he needs, one day it could be you.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Very well put peanut.

I have been following this thread and had decided not to post as the whole subject of this man's attempted suicide and the successful outcome has been trivialised by some who I would have thought better of.

I have a suicide plan set up and if I ever reach the point that I give up fighting to live and I feel there is no reason to carry on then I hope I have someone like the Police officers next to me rather than certain members of this forum. This man now has a chance of a future and, one way or another, I can only hope he will be given the attention and help he needs.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

:clap:

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Thank you for the clarification, Gary; did he drop the gun, or did the police take it off him?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I never questioned whether he had a need for help, nor whether he had a future, my only questioning was whether in the 29 hours he was there, an earlier opportunity may not have been possible to remove him from the location he was in where he had the potential to do harm to himself or others, and relocate him to where professional help was available, if that required the use of a force multiplier, which would be the taser, in order to facilitate him being restrained and less likely to jump, then surely that would have been of benefit to him? Once situations like that arise the priority has to be his safety, and treatment in that order.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It may have been inconvenient for some people but how can we decide what would have been a better way to deal with the man. Doesn't the fact that the police took 29 hours to resolve the situation not make you think that, just maybe, we don't know the full facts.

They can't have been unaware of the disruption the road closures were having and I doubt if they would have chosen to wait that long unless they thought using something such as a taser was not the best way to handle someone who doesn't appear to have been violent and may have serious mental problems.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

No, no Jo, you've got it all wrong. The police were involved, therefore the incident was handled with a display of total, bungling incompetence. Or at least, such is the view of a certain group of regular posters on this forum, it seems. :(

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

He threw it in the river.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

And of course, if they had used the taser, and the man had hurt himself, it would all have the police's fault for going in heavy-handed and not giving him time to sort himself out......

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

Which river?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Does it matter what the name of it was?

The River Nile.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I'm surprised he got it on the plane - they x-ray hold luggage, and I would have thought it would have shown up.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

What plane?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Well how did he get to the Nile in the first place. Or did he just have an amazing length of throw.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I expect he flew there. he shot the copper while he was over there. and he was seen in Birmingham 2 weeks later by a copper recognising him from a wanted photofit. and was chased to the bridge.

It doesn't really matter now anyway. :)

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Please do not make this into a film. It has so many plot holes.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

But where did he commit the rape?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

I think that it may be my time to share an experience that i had many years ago on this subject.

I was in the loosest possible term dating this young filly. She was a honey, however I knew that she was not all there so to speak.

I thought that I would see how it went and see if i could calm her down.

I was just about to go away on holiday with my parents to France and they were due to pick me up on the way. I thought it would be a good idea to spend some time with this young lady before i went away.

In hindsight, not so good an idea.

The evening went well and we had a good time, we had a few drinks... and she left the room.

And then I went in to the kitchen.

She had a serrated steak knife against her wrist.

I will never forget the sight that i saw next, as it seemed to happen in slow motion.

The way that skin and muscle separates and goes pure white before the blood comes rushing out is mind blowing. I know thats sounds sick. But to see that happen, i will never forget it.

Naturally i called 999 and took appropriate action, which hopefully saved her life, I never did get to wear that shirt again due to the blood stain.

She *was* a nutter, but I never saw that coming, espcially after a nice evening meal and drinks.

I hope that Jenny is alive and doing better than that these days...

So, maybe that elevates me somewhat from armchair status.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It doesn't matter :(

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Surely it does, at it counts towards his mental state (environment shapes the psyche).

What was the make of the gun?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It doesn't :(

Tomy, Toby or something.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It just goes to show how unpredictable the world is and how sometimes some people can feel totally different on the outisde than they do on the inside.
Sometimes people may look like they are alright but are truly hurting inside. Life works in mysterious ways.
It was good you were there for her.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It's strange that you state that, Gary, because earlier in this thread when you were asked if you were a psychiatrist, you replied Environmental Psychology is a specialist sub-set which focuses on assessing how environmental factors affect individual attitudes, physiological reactions and health (re the basic "phylogeny versus ontogeny" debate).

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Ok. :(

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

So does it or doesn't it matter?

If it does, where did it happen?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Thankyou, I know how that feels.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

It doesn't matter as in I don't want to play your brown nose game :(

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

And yet depressive conditions / bipolar disorder can be caused by a chemical imbalance which is less likely to be environmental.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

If I'd spent 29 hours in Birmingham, I'd want to jump off a bridge too.

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Who's?

Re: Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge
 

Yes and you also said he was completely incorrect, he plainly isn't hence the use of the words often and some by the Samaritans in your link.

Love it, you wade in with the personal abuse and then question my attitude!!