Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Apart from religion and race being 2 seperate things. do you have to be another race to believe in the Quran?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...-quran-burning

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Step back everyone...it's another attempt at starting a muslim bashing thread by the poster pretending they are "interested in debate" .

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/25.jpg

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Get out of my thread.

---------- Post added 24-09-2010 at 00:04 ---------- Previous post was 23-09-2010 at 23:49 ----------

Northumbria police said the men were not arrested for watching or distributing the video, but on suspicion of burning the Qur'an.

They were arrested on suspicion of burning the Quran.so is it religious hatred or racial hatred, or is it free speech gone out the window?
burn the bible, burn the quran, burn a flag?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

We've never had true free speech in this country. It can't exist in any country purely due to the fact that if it did, the human race would quickly destroy itself.

We are, however, relatively free (compared to a lot of other countries) to express our opinions. But, with that freedom comes responsibility.

Burning the Qu'ran is offensive to muslims. In much the same way as burning The Bible would be offensive to Christians.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

But to some people any religious book is pages of mumbo jumbo. but burning the mumbo jumbo offends people.
but actually burning a picture of somebody, or burning a countries flag. we just standby and do nothing.

Is it even racial hatred burning either?
is it religious hatred then?
is it therefore an arrestable offence to criticise a religion?

Salman Rushdie was protected by the government when he criticised. but that was then and this is now.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Shock!
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/25.jpg

Loaded racist / racism related question from GaryL who, when challenged, tries, rather pathetically, to move the goalposts.

Gary, let me simplify this for you mate.

Your original question was "do you have to be another race to believe in the Quran?"

The answer is "No".

Your second question "so is it religious hatred or racial hatred" is answered, funnily enough, in the first sentence of the originial article you linked to which states "Police in Gateshead have arrested six people on suspicion of inciting racial hatred".

The clue is in what the police arrested them for - which was "racial hatred".

Most adults understand that in the context of modern democracy "Free speech" does not give anyone the right to "burn the bible, burn the quran, burn a flag".

Yes, Salman Rushdie was protected by the government when he criticised Islam.

However, as you yourself have acknowledged, "that was then and this is now."

What is it that you don't understand about your own statement?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/25.jpg


Stop people. he's doing that thing where he's telling me he is right and I am wrong.

They were arrested on suspicion of burning a book.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

GaryL, you're obviously uneasy with being challenged.

Nowhere in this thread have I told you that you are "wrong". I have simply pointed out the contradictory anomalies contained within the "questions" which you "pose".

However, your unease at my having done so is entirely understandable given the transparent racist undertones of your self contradictory posts.

You've exposed yourself - and no end of feigned naivety or crass stupidity in the guise of attempted "humour" can disguise your intent with these posts.

Well done.

"They were arrested on suspicion of burning a book."

Again, you've answered your own "question" and exposed yourself as someone who pretends not to understand perfectly logical statements of fact just to excuse / facilitate your wanton desire to post loaded quasi rascist threads for the entertainment of yourself and a select few posters who consider CF to be their own little stormfront.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Yes that'll be it. I usually lie down and die don't I?

We are what we call debating.

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:34 ----------

Suppose the whole world was in a catonic state. would we still see an opportunity to create a divide. a divide that actually might not have been there, but we make sure it is split right down the middle by stepping in and calling one side them, and the other side us.

The muslims are offended. the christians are offended.
I'm neither. what help do I get as an atheist?

would anyone give a damn even, if we were all catonically occupied?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

For the love of a sky pixie. I wish people would all spell the koran / quran / qu'ran in the same way!!!

Just what *is* the right way to spell it?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I'm not suggesting that you normally lie down and die.

You do, however, skulk off when afforded any sort of indepth answer to your questions - as amply evidenced by chris's reply to your rather weak attempts to bait him on the matter of "temptation".

No Gary we are not debating.

Debating - beyond your concept of it - does not normally involve you answering / providing answers to your own "questions" without even having the wit to realize that you've done so.

That is more akin to psychosis than debate.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I think that everytime I see the word!

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Mr. A is debating. You are squirming, deflecting, dodging and ignoring the questions asked of you. Needless to say, you are not winning this 'debate' you speak of.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

WTF?! is this a troop gathering exercise? :D

and another thing. I can't keep up with you and take you seriously much when you keep editing your posts after I've commented on them. I keep reading additions or ammendments to them.

---------- Post added at 00:56 ---------- Previous post was at 00:54 ----------

Does somebody have to win?
will you win by closing the thread by posting pointless comments to it in order to get it closed?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

No Gary, it's not a troop gathering exercise - it's a fact.

You run away from cogent debate when your "arguments" are exposed for what they are.

What they are, in the main, are little more than thinly veiled attempts at stirring up racist malcontent or throwing insults at others by masking your disdain for them as some sort of half witted teenage theological debate on your part just because they might elect to follow a religious belief or faith.

No end of the use of "smilies" or glib comments / attempts at humour on your part will change the fact.

EDIT.

Contrary to your paranoia nobody is trying to close your thread. In fact now that you raise the matter you're quite capable of asking that the thread be closed should you wish to do so given the fact that you've answered all of the "questions" you asked in your initial post within the first two posts you made.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I'm not even suggesting that if I were to mention the smell of curry in the air, that you'd be the kind of person who would shout STOP! you're being racist. when in actual fact I was going to say it's making me feel hungry, then?

---------- Post added at 01:12 ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 ----------

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/24.jpg

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Again Gary you are making flawed assumptions (in incredibly bad English I have to say).

Yet another failed attempt on your part to deflect from your own issues. You, yourself, are making a purely racist based assumption (nothing unusual there).

Why do you assume that curry - or the smell thereof - should be a racist matter or something peculiar to a particular race?

Many people, myself included, are not so narrow minded or racist to assume that only people from other races cook curries.

You see what you did there Gary whilst trying to be "funny"?

Yes, that's right, you exposed your own blinkered narrow minded racist mindset to the world.

Ooops! Well done you.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/23.jpg

She thinks you should stop trying to convince yourself, and talk about the subject and not the poster. she's bored with it.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Aside from the fact that she is not involved in the "debate" but is simply another weak and transparent attempt on your part to deflect from your own inadequacies the subject is done Gary.

You answered your own questions and you seem to be the only one who hasn't realized it.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

So do you think it will go to court then. or do you think it's an over reaction to the offended culture we have gotten used to in this country?

God, he edited it again.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Bang on the money Well said :clap:

When i opened CF this morning and looked at the threads that had been started last night this one jumped out. Why you ask ?, because my first thoughts were" oh look a thread started by GaryL", i then opened it and guess what i was correct,

This is yet another thread just this side of being racist but made to look as if he is or is not, for or against it ?????


I think some of the posters in this thread have already shown that the question was answered in the first couple of posts and now all this thread will do is settle in to an all to common scenario which is only just this side of the race or religion line

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

These threads only seem to exist for one reason and that is to bash Muslims even when as others say it is thinly veiled under another guise.

The burning of any holy book will always be offensive to the members of the religion whose book is defaced in this way, and the sooner we realise that the better.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

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Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Sirius and Masque. unless you contribute to the thread then it will be seen as 'going nowhere' and be closed.

or is that the plan as usual. to distrupt a thread the way you do to get it closed?
there have been no contributions as such by anyone. it's just the usual people saying 'I don't like this thread'

thanks for understanding.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Did you miss my 2nd paragraph above as that is what I think about the burning of any holy book, and I am an atheist.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Understanding what, Its the same old same old from you, Why dont you change the tune Gary ????

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Somebody said 'what if we heard on the news today that someone burned a bible in response to this burning of the koran?'

or worser still. set light to the British flag?
if that was done then that would be offensive to everyone. even the ones who thought that those people who burnt the koran was wrong.
the whole country would have to be offended whether we wanted to or not.

would it just be pictures and possible video on the news but no action. or would we see arrests taking place?

I haven't looked yet, but I wonder if the UK is the hottest topic in the news all over the world today.

---------- Post added at 08:47 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------

Why is my name in bold?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

You know why ;)

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I see you've left a comment on the Fox News story? :)

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Qu'ran is the correct way, from Arabic...

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

When translating from a non-Western script there can be many "right ways" depending on which Romanisation system is being used. It's not just Arabic, there are multiple ways of Romanising Chinese and Japanese for example, and the preferred system can change over time, hence koran/quran/qu'ran and moslem/muslim.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

No point trying to work out the correct spelling, as whichever one you choose will be called wrong and therefore offensive.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Ok on topic and answering you directly Gary yes burning the qu'ran is wrong and should not be done by anyone as a sign of objection to whatever they feel islam stands for and the same applies to the bible or book of faith of any religion. If that is the level you descend too to make your point then in my mind you don't have a point to make and should just shut up and carry on being ignorant. Would i class it as racial hatred no i am not sure i would because as far as my limited knowledge of islam goes it is follwed by people from many races and cultures but it is inciting hatred becauase anyone doing it knows damn well what it signifies and what offense it is likely to cause and no one has the right to do that.

I am an atheist i don't believe in any of it but that doesn't mean the words of the qu'ran, bible or any other are less important then any other written work and people will place upon them the importance they wish and if they choose they can hate it, dislike it or anything else but don't be a knuckle dragger and destroy it in a pathetic petty attempt to oppose what you feel it stands for.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I'm against burning ANY book because what you are doing is burning the human imagination..I may not agree with what is between the covers of a book but I will defend to the death the right of anyone to write,own or read any book.

People who burn books in this symbolic way are trying to offend and are in some pretty loathsome company when they do so.Only in repressive regimes that abuse and ill treat their citizens do they approve of burning books.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

The thought of book burnings bring to mind the efforts of the Nazi regime when they tried to burn all books that did not fit in with their ideology and that is something we do not want to see in this modern age.

The are to many Muslim threads being started lately and the majority have only one intention and that is to fan the flames of distrust hopefully among the readers of these threads, but I think the vast majority have a mind of their own and refuse to swayed by these childish attempts at antagonism.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Which ever way you look at this, the burning of the quaran was a plot to upset muslims simple as that, I don't agree with it nor would I if I saw news about the bible or any other relgious book been burnt, there is other ways to protest your dislike for a religion, disrespecting the religion over steps the mark.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

But does that necessarily mean it's a criminal offence? Who gets to decide what is or isn't. There are lots of things that are offensive to groups of people, but they just have to put up with it.

Why should people be stopped from pointing out the all too often true bad points about certain groups. Why should those protected groups(or their members) be allowed to be immune from criticism, thereby giving a totally false and one-sided impression of that group.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

True nomad. we'll be having comedians arrested for telling jokes soon. if it was on the BBC we'd see the BBC charged for allowing it to be broadcast.

anyway, I think they won't be charged as they'll just say that it wasn't their intent to offend and as they've already said they don't know who put it on youtube.

so unless burning your own property whether it be a book or anything, is an arrestable offence. then they won't be charged.

Anyone surprised that youtube hasn't removed the video?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Burning a book is how you point out its bad points? Seriously?

No.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Could you explain to me, please, how can be equated with burning the qu'ran/bible/torah/etc?

Edit:just beaten to it by Russ.....

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

If it's not pointing out any bad points, then how is it inciting hatred, racial or otherwise. It would be the negative reaction from Muslims that would be inciting hatred against non-Muslims.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I think we need to look at this in context .The Bugle pub (where the incident took place) is a known meeting place for the BNP and other groups of that ilk .The people doing the burning are clearly of low intelligence as they have gotten themselves mixed up with race and religion ,are they protesting against Muslims ,terrorists or people from a different country that "don't look like what we do".People of this level of intelligence don't draw a distinction between muslims and people of a different colour they are different that is all they see ,as far as they are concerened all foriegners are muslims and terrorists .They also don't have the courage of their convictions hiding away behind a pub and posting anonymously on utube is not the best way to have a genuine protest .
Yes the police have every right to arrest these idiots imo they are quite clearly racist and trying to goad local muslims into trouble .Plus if the police look a bit deeper into their records they will probably find they are wanted for something or other

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Ah, its the old "don't blame the fuse, blame the dynamite" argument.

Nice try.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

So if I took a photo of your family and loved ones, wiped my butt with it, drove over it a couple of times then burned it, the only person inciting hatred would be you if you reacted?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

You'd have to film it though. otherwise he'd be none the wiser that you did it.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Ah, the old Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle approach - by being observed, the outcome is affected......

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Well unless you actually see the event. how can you be expected to react to it?

it would probably be different if Russ never burned it. he can just show him that and then hopefully the series of events would be believable.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I am sure he was joking Mick

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Was he, I did not see any indication he was.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

The Qur’an (English pronunciation: /kɒˈrɑːn/ kor-AHN; Arabic: القرآن‎ al-qur’ān, IPA: [qurˈʔaːn], literally “the recitationâ€�) is the religious text of Islam, also sometimes transliterated as Quran, Kuran, Koran, Qur’ān, Coran or al-Qur’ān.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Doesn't really matter. Jesus was traditionally called Joshua or 'Yeshua', I can't think of any Christians would be offended if you called him that.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Oh he without doubt meant what he posted.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I'm pretty sure he wasn't.He managed to leave out the usual smiley indicating he was joking.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I do not think so in this instance as he is the kind of person who gives a neg rep with a nice smiley included as in this type :), so not a question of him forgetting.:erm:

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

So are you suggesting that because there is no smiley that he was joking?:confused:

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

For the record, I was joking.

Can't see these people being prosecuted. not when the original video is still on youtube.
if it was that serious. it wouldn't still be on there. I'd say it was more of an over reaction by the police on political grounds.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Thanks Hom3r and others...

Since that answers my question, hopefully it will end the off topic posts on the spelling issue :-/

Sorry mods, only nice to say thankyou :)

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

So if a group of mindless Muslims were filmed burning the Bible, kicking it about and being equally as hateful as these other morons, you'd still find it "politically motivated" and an "over reaction" were the police to arrest them?
I believe most people on this forum already the answer to this question Gary, but please let us know anyway?

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I've already mentioned about the reverse earlier in the thread.
It depends on one or two things. one is are they making threats of harming or killing anybody, are they insulting the religion or the people?

The fact of the matter is, the law has to be broken for a prosecution to happen. just because you are arrested it doesn't mean that a prosecution has to follow.

a prosecution can't happen just because you don't like or agree with what they have done.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

As I see it, it's not inciting racial hatred, as per the thread title, as muslims are not a racial group.

Is it inciting religious hatred? I'm not even sure if there is a law for that.

I think there is a law for inciting violence against religious groups, and I don't believe this act transgresses that.

If he was encouraging people to burn the koran and go out and smack a muslim, then that would be different, but all he/they are doing is buring a book.

Now that may be offensive to muslims but not illegal, and he's done it with the sole intention of offending muslims and causing trouble but as far as I know it's not illegal to "offend" anyone.

If the police saw somebody burning the Koran, and could see that it was about to cause civil unrest by provoking nearby muslims then I think they could probably come up with some reason to arrest them just in order to keep the peace. As you point out they would probably be later released without charge.

It would take less manpower for that course of action rather then try to defend the book burner from potential violent actions of nearby offended muslims, although it would be the muslims that were on the wrong side of the law.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Well said Pierre. I agree with arresting them, but prosecution can only happen if they have broken the law.
some people think that being arrested automatically means that you have.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 covers both.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Having a religious law does not make religion a race of people.
Having a religious law does not mean there is a god.
Having a religious law does not mean that all religions are not false.
Having a religious law does not mean that religion should not be criticised.

Having a religious law defending religion means the government is trying to keep the peace after they have first caused
the problem and have done nothing to deal with the dangerous mass affliction.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Thanks for that.

I don't usually trust wikipedia 100% for my reference material, however I have no cause to doubt it on this occasion.

It would seem that my interpretation is correct.

Burning a book is not "threatening" in itself.

It may be insulting or offensive but not inciting hatred or violence.

Therefore, the burning on the koran, bible or a flag is not breaking the law.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

I hate the title of this thread because it is inaccurate.:rolleyes:

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Innacurate as it is. that's what they have been 'charged' with. it's relevant to the thread.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Then the charge is wrong and they could challenge it on those grounds.It's really inciting religious hatred.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

It could, of course, have been misreported/simplified - according to MSNBC, they were charged under the Public Order Act 1986.

Also according to MSNBC, they were all members of the EDL.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

They also say "Police would not say how much bail was required."

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

You are correct.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

It doesn't even make sense grammatically :rolleyes:

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Imagine there's a question mark on the end. you won't have to worry too much then :D

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

So it could be an assumption on their part, as all the stories I've read from over there are basically all the same as the others.

to say "Police would not say how much bail was required" they probably didn't even ask. otherwise they'd probably have got a different answer to what they are saying.

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Gary you have a truly unerring gift for stating the absolutely obvious;)

As regards the second paragraph, could you enlighten me as to how the "government" caused the problem??

Re: Inciting racial hatred to burn the Quran.
 

Not much that Gary writes makes sense, so it's pretty par for the course ;)