The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11180862

Putting aside the Religious side of this visit , Is the Pope the leader in the Vatican and therefor his visit would be classed as the visit of a sovereign states leader ???.

Would there be the same uproar if it was Obama or Sarkozy. Personally i feel most of those asked for there opinion gave it based on the religious side of the visit. I am not a religious person but even i can see we have to treat the Pope the same as any other leader that visits this country ?.

Personally i say we pay up just like any other visit. We would expect that other countries provide the security needed when our Prime minister or Queen visits there country and therefor why should we be different when we are visited by a world leader or statesman.

I did not start this thread to have yet another boring religious fight just because you can and if that's all you can contribute then stay out of the thread and start your own. This is a thread about the visit of a sovereign state leaders visit and why some seem to think the public should not be paying for his visit.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Whilst I have little time for the Pope he is a head of state however because some people are rabidly anti-religion they don't want any of their taxes going towards the visit.

There is another side to this however. From something I heard on the radio a few weeks ago, some people seem to be against us funding his visit due to the Vatican's apparent lack of action against priests and bishops suspected of sexual abuse.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

My personal view on this is that he is a leader and religion should take no part in the decision on funding. I can see why some would be upset of the allegations of abuse and i think they have not gone far enough to deal with it but those allegations should be dealt with separately to his visit.

You know me and religion but in this case i do believe it has NO bearing on a state visit and its just another reason for some to stick the knife in.

I have no problem with some of my taxes going to fund this visit.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I agree with that one. it might not be religion being the reason why some think it shouldn't be funded. infact the religious side of it hadn't even crossed my mind.

then it might be because we are supposed to be cutting back but the money we're saving is being spent on this kind of thing.

---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 ----------

Has anybody said that it's because of religion, or is it just you thinking it's because of that? I think it's more to do with the abuse and just the money side of it.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Yes.

According to one of their own press releases:

"In March 2010 The National Secular Society delivered a 28,000 name petition to the Prime Minister (Gordon Brown) objecting to any state funding of what is, in essence, a religious activity."

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

It is a state visit and no precedent has been set as we have had a previous visit where we even provided popemobiles for the popes protection.

I am not in the slightest bit religious and personally have no issue with his visit as it will have no impact on my life.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Not wanting to go too far down this path but he is a non-democratic head of a religious enclave (not political country or sovereign state) As head he is voted in by people that the previous pope has appointed..

Most others in this situation wouldn't be recieved as a head of state or a nation as he is in fact neither

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Strange how things change with time. before I don't think anyone could care less.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Kymmy, That may well be your opinion however the facts of the matter (and I have no love for the man or his church) are that the vatican state - not the vatican but the state thereof - is a recognised sovereign state based on a monarchial democracy and recognised as such universally in international law.

The Queen of England (another whom many consider to be a burden on the UK tax payer) invited him in his capacity as the head of that particular state.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Hmm! Shame on them if that's the only consideration..Especially as we are bound to be meeting and greeting some real SOBs who are heads of state in the future.

If they they don't protest about them then we will know the real reason is just about religion..and I've no truck with such behaviour.:(

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

The popes as much a head of state as Paddy Roy Bates and I don't see him being invited by the queen..

I'm sure that the Italian goverment would agree if they actually got themselves a stable non-corrupt goverment..

Yet another govermental appeasment being issued through our monarchy ;)

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

---------- Post added at 10:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 ----------

Indeed :)

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I realise I'm risking my sanity by attempting to correct Mr Angry here, but there hasn''t been a 'Queen of England' for about 300 years,

</pedantic mode>

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Now this should be fun :LOL:

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

You may not like it Kymmy but those are the facts. He is the head of a legitimate and universally (not just Italian) recognised state.

Nor is it governmental appeasement through the monarchy. Constitutionally the Queen, in her capacity as both the monarch and the head of the Church of England, could have refused to issue or endorse the visit had she wanted to.

The fact is that she didn't.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

You seem to be arguing simplistic facts against a valid viewpoint... Not sure why?? :p:

Does anyone honestly think that the queen said "I have an idea..lets invite the pope for tea" ;)

As for the vatican being a state well give a cult power long enough and they'll try exactly the same..

With so many not wanting to either pay for this visit or for it to go ahead I wonder exactly why it is still going ahead.. A case for more referrendums perhaps??

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Perhaps those questioned were unaware that the Vatican is a legitimate state?

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Should that have effected a personal viewpoint? If it wasn't a state then the goverment would never have attempted to pay for it all, but that still doesn't make it right (either as to the payment or the fact that it shoudn't really be a state) and a referendum would have corrected at least one of them..

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

We're not Switzerland ... referendums are not a regular part of our democratic process. ;)

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Can we have a referendum to make it possible to have more referendums??

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

roffle ...

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Exactly, it's facts v's opinion. You are of course entitled to your opinion / viewpoint however neither of which change the facts. (sorry was typing this as you pm'd).

I don't think it's important what she said, literally, but the fact still stands - only the Queen can invite him. There were issues of Brown having broken with protocol however the queen formally extended the invitation and has stood over same.

A cult may try it but I doubt if they'll become a universally recognised sovereign state. I'm not sure it's wise or helpful to be drawing the cult analogy given that the OP asked for this not to become a religion bashing thread. That said, I am not aware of any cults currently trying to establish themselves as sovereign states.

The UK is a democracy. If the majority of the population - as opposed to the majority of a sample base - were to effectively voice their opposition then I would assume that the Queen would revisit her initial invitation on that basis.

That, however, is not currently the position.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Of course. I don't doubt many people are unaware that the Vatican is a state and will think this is just a religious visit, nothing more. Given the amount on anti-religious feeling in the world today I can understand why people could be mistaken about this.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

The National Secular Society is well aware that the Vatican is internationally recognised as a State, with the Pope as its Monarch. They recognise that this is the reason the visit is being funded by the UK and why the Pope is getting the official reception that makes them so furious. That's why they're putting a lot of effort into legal attempts to get the Vatican's status 'redefined' shall we say.

The opinion that the Vatican is a 'religious enclave' is, essentially, a summary of the legal argument that is made against it. But that's what it is - it's a legal argument, it is not the currently accepted position in international law. IMO that position is not about to change any time soon.

It is quite easy to forget that here in the UK we live in a secular bubble (with vestiges of Anglicanism around the edges) and to assume the whole world is more or less in sympathy with the secularist agenda. The fact is, is itsn't. There are a billion Catholics worldwide, many of them in positions of influence in influential countries.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Oh I totally agree Russ, but that is also a valid side though not one for this thread ;)

Mr Angwy.. (sorry started on the whiskey early so typing is slurred :p: )

Perhaps the fact that people realy on facts is problematic within this society? Instead if people had and stuck to their own viewpoint the facts may be overturned and new and more relevant facts would come into place..

For example the viewpoints on many as to not wanting to pay for this visit may actually become a fact that is more relevant to the exisiting fact that we are paying for the visit :D

We can but hope...(and some may pray)

Would be interesting to find out what percentage of those who dont want to pay for the visit are catholic?? I presume quite a few and well withing the percentages of the catholic population of the UK

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I get where you're coming from Kymmy.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a fair percentage of those not wanting to fund the Popes visit were disaffected catholics or catholics who feel let down by the behaviour of their church.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

There could be 1001 different reasons as to why someone wouldn't like an organisation such as this.. I'd rather though take the mass NO without individual reasons than try to sort out why people are saying no.. Otherwise you'd be bogging down a simple answer with complications when in truth the simple asnwer is all we need..

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

He is a democratically elected head of state, much more so than our own Queen at any rate.

I was in general support for his visit, being a head of state, head of a church over a billion strong and for the overal influence this man has. However the figures involved are mind boggling up to £12 million from the tax payer, up to 10 million from the Catholic church and that's not even taking into account the security costs, that is far to much imo and can't be justified.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

But the queen is a figure head of state with the power through parliament, unlike the pope she has no power..

The pope does have power but is not truely elected apart from a puppet group that was put in place by the last pope..

Not sure how anyone can compare the two??

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I'm no fan of the Church of Rome, but calling the College of Cardinals a 'puppet group' placed by the previous pope is a bit unfair (as well as quite inaccurate). There are a lot of Cardinals, and many of them have been in-post for a great many years. They come from all over the world and represent all the cultures where the Roman church exists. As a system of representative democracy it's far, far from the worst the world has produced.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Getting a bit too off-topic now but no matter how long they've been in place the cardinals are created by the popes and the popes are elected by the cardinals..

If we did the same then the PM would elect the MP's and the MP's would elect the PM.. (who would stay in place till he died)
It was a choice between calling the cardinals puppets or the pope, just didn't fancy a papal target on my back by some extremist catholics ;)

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I'm not saying it's perfect - it isn't. But then no flavour of democracy is. Besides, just because the electors are chosen, it does not logically follow that they are therefore 'puppets'. Their length of service, diverse backgrounds and the fact that they may have been selected by the last pope, or the one before that, would mitigate against them acting as a 'puppet' in a future papal election.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Bad analogy.

If "we" are discussing heads of sovereign states and their religious machinations, which we are, then the Queen and the Church of England would be the appropriate point of reference and not Parliament.

On that point, and specifically in relation to the Church of England, no clergy can be instituted and inducted into a parish without swearing the Oath of Allegiance to the Queen (the current monarch and religious and constitutonal head of the Church of England).

Swings and roundabouts. Just as the catholic church cannot function effectively without a pope so the Church of England would face the same dilemma without a monarch.

Demanding loyalty from the practitioners of a specific denomination or faith in exchange for leadersghip is not something which is unique to catholicism.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Church of England though doesn't have their own state and would never dream of for example having a state visit to lets say America or Australia, hence I used the PM/MP analogy..

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

If during his time here he has meetings with representatives of our government and the queen then it is a state visit regardless of whatever else he might do while here and we have a duty of care for him during his time on UK soil. Also we are not wholly funding the trip or the protection we are as i understand it contributing to the cost and providing some of the resources. All that said i would expect the UK government to raise the issue of abuse within the church and how they are dealing with it or as seems to be the case not dealing with it and there should be no special dispensation on the subject just because he is the pope. Like it or not at this point in time the vatican is recognised as a sovereign state and must be accorded the same diplomatic consideration as any other state.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

The cost of things like security and Government/State meetings should be taxpayer funded, but events such as the proposed Mass are like a political event and shouldn't be taxpayer funded.

He received more votes to become Pope than Gordon Brown did in order to become PM.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Should the taxpayer have footed the bill for security when Michelle Obama visited a secondary school in Islington? After all, that was a blatant piece of PR. She isn't even a member of the US government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7980012.stm

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Thats the nail on the head, Why is the visit of the Pope any different

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

The difference being UK does whatever the US says regardless of the cost but that's another story...

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

As the head of a group involved in paedophilia I think he should not be allowed into the country.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

What - he's a teacher?

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

:clap: Well spotted sir

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Hi All- I read today that many Catholics are angry at the price of the tickets to the events. I can see the need for tickets to control the events but who gets this income from ticket sales. If it's costing the Tax-Payer then the tickets should be the cost of the postage. I can see life long Catholics who would like to go being prevented by the high prices. I wouldn't be one of them but think it's wrong.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I have to agree with the thinking of this. it can't be just ignored because they are hiding behind the holy barrier.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

wonder whos paying for tony blairs book signing in dublin...there must have been 1000 cops on duty:rolleyes:

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I'm pretty much Catholic by belief but I agree that the taxpayer should not fund it. The state, IMO, should not subscribe to any religion, any beliefs should be down to the individual, so the state should not fund any religious activity.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

do you think the state should have xmas/easter holidays??how do you feel about your kids catholic primary school getting funds from the tax payer??

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Is somebody / anybody "ignoring" it Gary?

Are you suggesting that it hasn't been & isn't an ongoing issue covered in the media?

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Has somebody / anybody been formally arrested yet?

No.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Yes Gary, I think you'll find that there have been several people arrested and their arrests have been well documented.

So, back to the original assertion on your part - who exactly is "hiding behind the holy barrier"?

Name names - come on Gary, let's play with the big boys - otherwise you are just speculating without foundation.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I don't think we should be funding any religious leaders to visit Britain, especially as this visit is charging for people to be present at some of his "do's", seems to me that the people interested in seeing him will be paying twice.
On a personal note I'd like to see him being asked a few pointed questions like any other visiting head of state, and not by some sycophant only interested in ingratiating himself, but by the usual journalists...seems fair if we are paying for this.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Well as that is in Southern Ireland it will ether be the Irish Government or the Irish Government and the people of Ireland.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

I mean the 'church' thinks that because of who they are they have immunity for their actions.

LOL do you regard yourself as one of the 'big boys'? :)

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

You are showing your absolute ignorance of the subject matter Gary.

A cursory search of the web will give you dozens of instances of catholic clergy and various other members of churches being outed as paedophiles and molesters.

So where do you get this "the 'church' thinks that because of who they are they have immunity for their actions"?

Gary, let me share some fundamental english comprehension with you.

"Let's" is the abbreviated term for "let us" (in this context you and I) "play with the big boys" is rather self explanatory and would involve a degree of comprehension and maturity which you have clearly evidenced is beyond you.

This thread is about whether taxpayers should fund the Pope's visit. The OP asked that it not be turned into the usual religion bashing. At least have the manners to respect his wishes, please.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

Are they the ones that get sent somewhere out the way?

Ok. I believe you.

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

No, they would be the ones sent to jail.

Link1

Link2

Link3

Link4

Re: Taxpayers should not fund Pope's visit, says survey
 

If he was just a religious figure and nothing else then no we shouldn't pay for a visit by him or anyone else. But he is not just a religious figure he is the head of the state of the vatican in diplomatic terms he is a head of state and has to be accorded the same diplomatic courtesys as any other head of state. Look no one on here can describe me as a fan of religion but in this instance you really do have to seperate religion as it isn't the only aspect to this. As i said in my earlier post our government and the queen should both raise the issue of abuse within the church and their reaction to it but we have no way to demand that or probably know if that happens anyway. Now if someone were to statrt a thread on the legitimacy of the vatican as a state that would be a whole different kettle of fish but on this thread he is a head of state and must be treated as such.

Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Not seen a thread on this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11317441

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Remind me again why we should just not tell them to sod off and stay in there much better country :rolleyes:

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Yea we may be third world but at least we dont advocate pedophilia.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

:clap:

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

To be fair when I normally land back (at Gatwick mostly) from being abroad I think "what a ****hole..."

Once the strikes start hitting the electric supply, various hosepipe bans throughout the year and our rubbish human/civil rights record, it would be hard to tell us apart from a 3rd world country.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I know it will never be allowed to happen but I would love to see a lot of empty seats at the Papal Meet and Greets.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

who fancies putting posters up round his route?
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/70.png

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I think it's pretty much guaranteed to happen.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I heard on the radio that tickets were not selling and that they were giving the tickets away to schools to get the numbers up.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I think selling tickets to see the pope is a bit of a disgrace really ,it's like charging people to go to church

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

*cough* collections...

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I knew someone would mention that ,but they are voluntary ,you don't have to pay to go to confession or take christmas mass or seek some spiritual help from your local vicar... but the catholic church are selling tickets to catch a glimpse of the pope? .He's supposed to be Gods representative on earth ,and isn't god supposed to be freely available to everybody poor and rich alike ?

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Priest and you dont have to pay for them to bury your mother either...

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Likewise you don't have to pay to go to see the pope unless you want to pay.

Yes, and there's a difference between "Gods representative on earth" and God "(who is) supposed to be freely available to everybody poor and rich alike".

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Still seems a bit distasteful to me

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I'm not disagreeing, but there are obviously those prepared to pay and that's up to them.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

absolutely it is ,but don't you think it is taking advantage of the deeply religious catholics who's greatest ambition is to see the Pope in person ,maybe to reafirm their faith in light of the abuse scandal ..and they have to pay .
Maybe it's just me not being religious ,i might think differently if i was a devout Catholic

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I think that we should put on a musical tribute for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGp0hCxSg98

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Again, nobody is making them pay. They are choosing to do so.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth — as membership was required by law for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939[9] — but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings.[10] His father was an enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith

perhaps not that musical tribute

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

You are aware that The Producers is a spoof in both the original and the remake versions.:D

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Can someone tell me what Third World actually means? i've heard it used for Africa.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

i am aware of that .

i just don't think any link to Nazism is relevant - dont get me wrong i despise his attitude to abuse perhaps some tribute in that direction might be more fitting .

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Here you go.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

somewhere with a worse economy than ours -if such a place exists ;)

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

We should get a load of kids wearing Brown shirts, and remind him of his youth :D

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

It wouldn't surprise me if there will be a few groups protesting against the pope when he visits. and it wouldn't surprise that it's the paedophilia they're shouting about.

you wouldn't imagine any hostility towards a pope visit a few years ago.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

I think this would be far more appropriate: <REMOVED>

Edit: Be more careful what you post next time, or an infraction will follow.

Re: Pope aide pulls out of trip after 'UK Third World' jibe
 

Warm eggs?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11309357

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

As it's unlikely we're going to be able to keep the various aspects/arguments over the Pope's visit to the UK separate, I have merged threads into one.

Please now use this thread for ALL discussion of the Pope during his visit to the UK.


---------- Post added at 11:46 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

Pope live now ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11313672 ... and has just acknowledged the role of the British people in standing against Nazi Germany.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

His security don't trust nobody. do they :)

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

Is the pope trying to tell us something here?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/58.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/11325730 (image 7) for a larger view.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

I think Stephen Fry has some sensible words

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11316476

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

I don't think he does - as with many of this country's highly intelligent and articulate atheists, when asked to comment on religious issues he can't help but dissolve into spluttering disapproval.

He, of all people, I should have expected to be able to articulate why he thinks the Pope shouldn't have had a State reception today. Unfortunately when it came to the crunch his argument boiled down to 'he shouldn't get one because it's self evident that the Vatican isn't a State'. Sadly for him and those who think like him, international law doesn't hold that assertion to be self evident.

And I'd be very careful about decrying something due to its status being an 'accident of history' - most of the British constitution is an accident of history, yet I don't hear Stephen Fry demanding a revolution.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

While that's a fair point, I thought the observation that if the Vatican is a state, it is best described as an Autocratic Monarchy an interesting one. Should we see the pope's invitation as a head of state as UK endorsement of Autocratic Monarchy* as a form of Government?

*An autocratic monarchy that is seen by many as failing to act on widespread child abuse in its ranks at that.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

If that is the case and the context in which he was invited then, apparently, yes you should.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515

Not sure if this was a fair interpretation of what he actually said, at first glance it appears quite a moronic thing to say but then what does he mean by 'extremism'?

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

By "extremism" he most probably means "them" or, alternatively, anyone, anything and any body which doesn't subscribe or conform to his partcular mindset at any given time.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

as an atheist i have no interest in the twisted views of this sad old git. reality will catch him up eventually .

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

The feeling is mutual, apparently.

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

:tu:

Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 

As an "athiest"...........I'm not sure if I am, I don't believe in a god, or any gods but I'm not against religion, if that's what people want to believe.

Anyway, I don't believe in god but you can't get away from the fact that this country is a christian country. It's not very often the leader of the christian church comes here and I have no objection to the pomp and ceremony afforded to him if it makes the very large population of UK christians happy.