Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Great idea

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10900478

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The fact that it is felt to be needed says it all.

What a great way for wannabe terrorists to meet.
Here's another place where they will get together:-
13-storey Islamic cultural centre

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Pity, I was kind of thinking there'd be 100% support for it, still guess people will allways find a reason to moan.

With statements like that, it makes me wonder why they're bothering at all.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

So people moan when they think Muslims aren't doing enough to combat extremism from within and now they have this camp some people still aren't happy.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Agreed.

My only negative thought is its a shame it didnt happen sooner rather than leaving it a few years for extremism to take hold.

Hopefully good will come of it, no matter what race/religion, theres loads of youngsters out there easily influenced just needing the right guidance. About time something was done anyway

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

So the Muslims with the greatest potential to become terrorists are the ones that will choose to attend this event, because they want to be made to see the error of their ways?:rolleyes:

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I'd say it'd be parents who are concerned with what some are peddeling in the name of that religion who will send their children on the camp to help ensure that they never become terrorists.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

100% support from me ,i see he is backing up what he said earlier in the year with positive actions
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...ism-fatwa.html

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The issue isn't the proclaimed intentions, but that facts that it is required at all and that it will have no real impact.

Are Muslims the last of any group to have an anti-terror camp or the only one needing it?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

What have you got against it ,this man is one the most respected clerics in the world ,it's people who have the potential to be terrorists that we want to attend and i think the idea that potential terrorists will not listen to him or his ideals shows how little you understand the respect in the muslim community that this man holds

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

I think "anti terror camp" is misleading ,the idea is not only to teach that terrorism is against the muslim faith but to re-educate young muslims in the basic principles of the faith ,to return to the core of muslim teaching . At least someone recognises the need for re-education instead of burying their heads and pretending the problem does not exist

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Yes. It does. It says that people are so ready to believe that all muslims are terrorists that this organisation feels the need to do something about it.

The fact you bought in an unrelated story also says a lot.

The fact the Daily Mail seems to have largely ignored the story, instead trumpeting the story of a British couple (although seeing as they are call Gul and Begum, they don't fit the Mail's normal definition of British) shot as part of an "honour killing" also says bucketloads..

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I suppose people should give him a chance as he hasn't been doing it for that long. Only 30 years?:rolleyes: You only have to look around the world for the massive impact he has made. Sudan, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Somalia, Nigeria, India , Pakistan (and I'm sure that there are many others) are not in the middle east.


---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

So is it to actually reduce terrorism or just to stop people believing Muslims are terrorists without reducing terrorism?

Unrelated story? It is a another place where Muslims are determined not to integrate with non-Muslims.

Well, 'Guardian/Observer' are also ignoring the camp, but are also reporting the immigration scam/'honour killing'.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Sarcasm aside, is it not good that someone is attempting to do something positive to reduce the effects of extremism?

Doing negative things (like banning religion, which is what some on here have suggested) will only help reinforce the image that muslim believers are somehow being persecuted for their beliefs, and will only increase extremism.

---------- Post added at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------

Did you even read the story you posted? The stated aim of the organisation backing this cultural centre is "to achieve a tipping point in Muslim-West relations within the next decade, steering the world back to the course of mutual recognition and respect".

Doesn't sound to me like they are trying to exclude non-muslims.. Rather the opposite.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I thought that the alleged unrelated story you were referring to, was the link about the 13-storey Islamic cultural centre. Especially as that was the only story referred to, in my post apart from the current topic.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Some people are happy to be anti-Muslim regardless of the headlines.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Im not jumping on you here, everyone is entitled to their opinion but what would your solution be to hopefully make things better/stop them getting worse?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Damned if they do, damned if they don't (it would seem, in some peoples' eyes).

I don't remember the Catholic Church setting one of these up during the IRA bombing campaigns......

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Brilliant idea :tu:

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Too many people are deluded(or supporters of terrorism) if they think that this is going to have any real effect. The headline isn't 'terrorism reduced because of camp', so stop making inflated and unjustifiable claims for it.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

To be fair the 2 are very different, I doubt any IRA murderer planted a bomb because he thought it'd please his God and there were quite a few anti IRA marches organised by Catholics. I seem to remember something from way back when about the IRA being threatened with excommunication if they carried on to and that is where Islam suffers in regard to this, they don't have a leader that can lay down the law or offer guidance to those that interpret teachings, meaning you can have any hook handed rabble rouser spouting any rubbish he wishes to suit his own agenda as long as it sounds reasonably convincing.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Very constructive. So we are all deluded or (and I take offence to this) a supporter of terrorism. Great. I see you didnt answer my question re:what would your idea be :rolleyes:

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Yes. My quote was from that story..

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

I am neither deluded nor a supporter of terrorism. In fact, I take offense at the suggestion I am either.

The camp has only just been set up, so how on earth would it have reduced terrorism yet? No one here has made any claims it will succeed, more that someone is attempting to do something positive in an attempt to reduce terrorism.

You are knocking something because you *believe* it will fail.

As with speedfreak, I am interested to hear your ideas on solving this problem. Bearing in mind that any attempt to ban or restrict Islam is just going to add fuel to their fire, and persuade people they are being oppressed (which is a major cause of the problem).

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Its how things start nomad ,small steps ,if everybody had your attitude black people would still be slaves and women wouldn't have the vote ,nobody is saying anything will happen overnight ,it will take time ,all we have to is support the small initiatives like this and they will grow to be the dominant way of thinking it's not deluded to think like that it's called being positive

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The people attending the camp will not be the ones deemed 'most likely to bomb' and therefore forced to attend. How is anything new going to be said that will convince anybody?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

How do you know this?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

a) Where does it say that attendees are selected and forced to attend. It's not some form of rehab.
b) Anything that would be said, has(or should have) been said already.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Yes, let us hope that as a result of this the world will be at peace.

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

I hope there will be a good turnout. otherwise they might knock it on the head and we won't get anywhere then.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

It's not what is being said it's who is saying it .Without a single leader as with catholics and the pope ,the muslim faith relies very heavily on influential people like Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri to interpret the koran and even would be terrorists would think twice before contradicting his teachings or others of his stature .Thats how the muslim faith works and needs to be understood by people who denounce him and others as "religious nuts on a soap box in the park"

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Eh?

Guardian.co.uk - Muslim group holds 'anti-terrorism' summer camp

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Do they regard him as a "religious nut" or just those outside of the religion?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

possibly the wrong term of phrase .."just another preacher" would perhaps be more appropriate ;)

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

to be honest this should not even have to happen... come to think of it islam has no place in england...

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Good grief. We have positive action in the name of peace and it is still not good enough for some.

Even if all this manages is fewer extremists it will be well worth it.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

To be fair most religions don't have a single leader, Christianity has loads of different ones and even the Dalai Lama doesn't speak for all Buddhists, very far from it. Who speaks for the Hindus or the Jews? The problems with fundamentalism seem to have attached themselves mainly to Islam for a variety of reasons and things like this camp can only help solve those issues in this country.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I first searched their website to check and did you check the date and time of the article?That's only about 1 1/2 hours ago.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

It's racists like you that need anti racist camps ,if you can't keep your racist ranting to yourself then please leave the forum and go elsewhere:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

first of all, how is it racist in suggesting a religion has no place in this country, does christianity have a widespread place in pakistan ? india ? saudi arabia ?

second of all why should they be encouraged NOT to commit attrocities and why are they NOT here to embrace OUR society and way of life ?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Quite correct ,even so it does show that religions without a single leader (come to think of it i can't actually think of a major religion with a single leader apart from catholics)rely on teachings from influencial people like, for example the Dali Lama

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

these influential leaders should not be required the fact is if somebody interprets a "peaceful religion"'s writings as blow up a bus then wtf is wrong ?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Eastern Orthodox has one, don't ask me his name though...

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Linky :)

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

What a negative Nellie you are..Why not give it chance before condemning it.

It seems to me you don't want them to succeed.I wonder why.

I'm not actually thinking that they will single handedly turn the tide anymore than the Mothers of the Disappeared ever thought they would get any answers to their actions, but I applaud their attempts however pathetic you consider them and I consider myself fairly pragmatic about such issues.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

You were the one who bought up forcing people to attend. I didn't, and neither did the article on the BBC.



I say again, how do you know this?

TBH, the way I see it is simple. It may or may not work. I think (and hope) it will, but even if it doesn't, then at least it has been tried. At worst, we lose nothing. At best, we end up a little safer. Either way, at least someone is trying something rather than just saying it won't work so we won't bother.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

It would be nice if you hadn't posted this but it would be so much less ignorant if you had bothered to put a capital E in front of the name England and an I for Islam..

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

and that is exactly what he is trying to correct ,the incorrect teachings that lead to 9/11 ect , we all know that in a ideal world it should not be required ,but it isn't an ideal world ,mainly due to people with your attitude

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

It may not be specifically racist. However, it is fascist to impose your views on other people in this way (by banning religion). Remember, Hitler victimised people based on their religion as well as race.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I think he has a point there to a degree, certain people (Abu Hamza etc) wont be signing their kids up and they would be the people that need it most, the point he missed though and indeed the whole point of the camp isn't to turn the misguided and brainwashed around, it's to give people a chance of answering back when they are being preached at so hopefully fewer will be drawn in by them.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I said two things, and you were not clear on which of them you where disputing, so I pointed out, that as a matter of common sense both premises were true. 1) The people attending are not the problem, 2) What brand new arguments could be used that haven't been available before?
Is that him ad-libbing or repeating what has been said many times before.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Every religion needs an influential leader. What do you think the Pope is?

The fact is that Islam is a peaceful religion. The fact that people are being taught that it is OK to perpetrate such babaric acts against non-believers is what is wrong and is what I believe this guy is trying to correct.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The people attending are to be the ones that confront the ones that ARE the problem...:rolleyes:

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

That should be fun to see. peaceful ones arguing with the extremists. who wins. they decide.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The people attending aren't going to be listened to. There was no new magic argument that couldn't have been used before.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

You stated "The people attending the camp will not be the ones deemed 'most likely to bomb' and therefore forced to attend."

I asked "How do you know this?"

To which you answered "a) Where does it say that attendees are selected and forced to attend. It's not some form of rehab."

I merely replied "You were the one who bought up forcing people to attend. I didn't, and neither did the article on the BBC."
Without knowing what arguments have been used before, I could not even begin to guess. I would suspect, however, he will be teaching different ways to interpret the Qu'ran though.

---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Do you actually know this, or are you assuming? You can argue it's common sense, and it may be, to you. It's common sense to me to let this guy try this.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Have there been some brand new teachings of Mohammed that have revealed?:rolleyes: If not, there is nothing to be said, that couldn't have been said before. It's not like, if the Pope made a declaration and said that it had come from God and that people had to obey it or face excommunication.

I have yet to see any possible(even theoretical) examples of something that could be said now that would change things, that couldn't have been said before.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

i think it's more about who is saying it and the enviroment he is saying it in .It's open and in the public eye not closed off in some obscure mosque in east london .
It's like if a catholic priest in a sleepy hamlet says that abortion should be ok for catholics,not many would take him serious ,but if the pope said the same on christmas day in st peters square it would certainly stir up feelings

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The point is IF you had read the article, is to give the peaceful the wisdom and wording to confront and repudiate the lies of the extremists and in doing so deal with those in their communities that are twisting the words of their faith to make martyrs of the young Muslims who have a lack of skills to deny what they are told by those extremists.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Try studying the Catholic Church. They have been known to change their interpretations of the Bible. I see no reason to assume the same cannot happen in Islam.
Whether it could or could not have been said before is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether it was or not, and who it was said to. Someone could have said "Slavery is bad" a long time before they did, and if they had said it to the right people, it could have ended torture for millions of people. The fact is, they didn't, or at least not to the right people.

Also, with due respect, if you did see something that "could be said now" would you even understand it? After all, it may require intimate knowledge of Islam, it's beliefs and the Qu'ran. Even if you understood it, would you be open minded to it? Based upon your posts here, I suspect you would not be open minded.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

If something could have been said before and hasn't, then that's a problem and if it has been said before, then it hasn't had much effect, if anything things have worsened.

Slavery was around for thousands of years and still it exists in areas(including Africa).

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

But it was addressed one step at at time, and is no longer widespread.

According to your logic, we shouldn't try to cure sick people, as they are all going to die in the long run.:rolleyes:

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

I agree, if something could have been said before, and wasn't, that *is* a problem. That may be the problem they are trying to solve now.

If something was said that didn't have much effect or made things worse, maybe it's time to say something else? Remember, banning religion has been tried and generally doesn't work.

Why are you so opposed to trying?
Slavery is not nearly as widespread as it was. Sounds to me like someone said the right thing to the right person at the right time.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Of course there is if you dont know the other half of the argument, the young, impressionable and dare I say weak minded have had to put up with the likes of Omar Bakri + Trevor Brooks spouting of like they are oracles, now they have a chance to give an educated answer back and possibly stop themselves being dragged into their little worlds.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Blimey wouldn't everything in life be wonderful if the answers were as simplistic as you seem to think they are, its got very little to do with the actual words, like all extremists its their twisted interpretation that needs to be challenged, and from what I can see this event will discuss and arm the moderates with a decent argument against the extremists, surely you realize a subject like religion has many shades of grey and that only extremists occupy the either yes/no world of religion?
Also you were asked earlier what your answer is to stopping the spread of radical Islam.....we are still waiting.
Its easy to sit on the sidelines carping at people who are trying to make a difference, maybe you'll tell us what you'd do??

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

Forgstamper I agree with you, life would be easier but unfortunately there is terrorism/radicalisation all around us in the world. Every morning in the paper there is always the subject of violence and extremism. I have noticed that it mostly revolves around Islam. The way to stop it is by firstly making sure there is going to be no nuclear power station in Iran, if this is done and people protest against this, at least this country does not have an upper hand against the rest of us, which would mean it will reduce the risk of terrorism from this Middle Eastern country.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

The frequency with which something is reported in the press is hardly a good measure of its prevalence in society. And the subject of Islamic violence and extremism doesn't appear in my choice of newspaper everyday. I don't think this would even be true of the Daily Mail, although they seem to have a good stab at publishing anti-Islamic stories pretty much every day.

I presume that your concern is Iran developing nuclear weapons, not a nuclear power station. If so, do you honestly think that if Iran developed nuclear weapons they would have the upper hand against the Trident missiles held by the UK and USA (let alone the rest of the world)?

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

It doesn't matter, he only signed up to spam his facebook page which I removed.

Re: Muslim Anti Terror Camp
 

:tu: