How not to treat a soldier
 

This is proof that there was no support by Labour for those in our armed forces. This should never have gone as far as this


http://www.londonwired.co.uk/article...d-Royal-Marine

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...stminster.html



By the way i don't give a hoot about if this is a good paper or not so don't start your crap about that, I am more interested in the soldier and his story.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

What a story. Bring the boys home and let them sort out the election result, I'm sure most of them have their opinions.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

more here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8622171.stm

---------- Post added at 22:56 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------



more here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8622171.stm


It joins a list of problems that Labour could of and should of fixed

The Gurkha's
Soldiers having to buy there own kit
No helicopters
No training before deployment for the TA
Snatch land rovers that were obsolete in NI never mind afghanistan.

The list goes on and on, And now they start picking on the soldiers themselves.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

The loss of these brave soldiers pension is bad enough but what about the men's respect and dedication to their job. Red tape and bureaucracy gone daft. I'm lost for words regarding the UK's policies.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Has the moratorium on political threads been lifted now?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

I personally don't understand what Labour has to do with Army discipline???

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

An exerpt from the BBC article:

Sounds like there might be more to this story than just a glancing blow from a wellington boot.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

You could be right but the below quote says it all to me.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

It doesn't say that it was him who was doing the digging.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

:LOL:

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

I should have known it would be you on the side of the Taliban. Then you wonder why i hate liberals :rolleyes:

It does not surprise me one little bit that there are those who will side with the Taliban on this forum and think its just and right to do this to 2 men who are are doing a job most here would never do. These same people would not have the guts to do what these brave men do daily .

Liberals make me sick with what they are trying to do to this country.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Re the injuries, did the sergeant forget to take his foot out of the boot :D

You have to remember Flyboy that these soldiers are putting life and limb at risk everytime they walk of camp ,of the soldiers i know that are serving over there (and i was talking to one a few weeks ago)they will tell you that some Afghans will be your best friend one day and try to blow your legs of the next ,in my opinion the only mistake these soldiers made was arresting the afghans ....they should have shot them

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

:clap:

Having served myself and having been in 1 or 2 bad situations i can tell you now when you get the chance of a bit of payback you take it.

I feel for these two guys and hate the fact that some will take pleasure in what happened to them. :mad:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Who exactly is siding with the Taliban? Where has anyone here declared the allegiances to a vicious murdering terrorist group?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Well if he was digging up a road he is either in the taliban or the afghanistan branch of reclaim the streets.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

That is no excuse to go round beating up anyone they want. Events at places like Abu Ghraib and the death of Baha Mousa shows that we cannot tolerate this behaviour from anyone, for any reason.

I don't really believe that even you would advocate summary executions for any so-called suspected terrorist.

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

The report does not say he was digging up the road, it says:

It does not say that he was suspected of being one of those men. If he had been digging the road up, don't you think the Daily Heil would have said so. If he was a terrorist, don't you think he would have been tried and convicted for it.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

no i don't advocate summary executions ,just shoot the buggers in a time of war



yes it does


remember they were held on suspicion because they had not been to court ,they could have had the bomb in their hands and it would have been suspicion untill they had been to court ,it doesn't lessen their guilt any ,and i would take the word of seargent leader over a taliban bomber any day

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Have they been charged?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

So what??? If he deserved a shoeing whats the problem?? The Taliban aren't a shining example of 2nd chances are they?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

From the report in the hail as you so politly put it (i assume from that you would not accept what i am about to post)

Flyboy at this point i am putting you on ignore as i am not willing to read what will be a retort that will support the action taken on this soldier. That's your way.

They should have shot them both then this would not have happened

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

i have no idea and i don't realy care, probably not

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

As far as I am aware, the due legal process for such things includes a trial and subsequent punishment. From what I can tell, this person has never been charged with any crime, unless you have any information relating to any charges brought against this person. Since when has it been the remit of soldiers to act as judges, juries and executioners?

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:45 ----------

Does that not concern you?

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

Yet still no evidence of any charges brought.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Thankfully there are plenty of people out there that do support this soldierThe group is still there go to groups on facebook and type mark leader in search and you should find it.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

do you honestly believe that taliban bombers are worried or concerned about "due legal process" when they are planting I.E.D's and trying blow our soldiers up
it's time our leaders realised that these **** bags don't respect law they don't want our laws and they will never accept them so why should we use them ...shoot the buggers before any more soldiers die, and if they won't allow them to do that then we should pull out

maybe we could use "due process" to sue the taliban for the injuries to our soldiers :rolleyes:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

That would not fit in with some peoples views.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

i've signed the petition with no hesitation whatsoever

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

:tu:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Again, since when is that an excuse to beat up prisoners? If this happened on the streets of London and it was the Met who were dolling out summary punishment to suspected criminals, how would you be posting then?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

are you deliberatley winding us up ?

this was not on the streets of london this was in a active war zone where Afghans were caught red handed digging holes for ied's to blow our soldiers up the comparison is just plain stupid

or do you think they digging holes for tatties and carrots :rolleyes:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

I have no idea, but then neither do you.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

(shakes head in disgust )


(walks away and puts Flyboy on ignore)

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

They are but simple goat herders digging holes for water :rolleyes: Yea right.


Anyone who thinks that these soldier's should have been dealt with in this way wants his head seeing to. But what do expect from the white feather brigade

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:25 ----------

:clap: :clap: If only more did that

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

It's not bad enough that they have put up with getting shot and blown up ,now they have the politicians and senior officers trying to do them in

makes me wonder how independent from the politicians this court marshall was ,how much was it influenced by no10? to get a favorable result in the eyes of the Afghan leaders or is it a case of the senior officers being idiots

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Indeed the list goes on much futher than the public really have been made away of. There are a couple of books on 3 Para's deployments and its really quite illuminating/frightening. In addition to the above:

1. Helicopters don't have winches so soldiers trapped in minefields have to rely on US helicopters to rescue them.

2. Helicopters aren't suited to CasEvacs so we rely on US helicopters for those two.

3. Due to appeasing the Afghan government troops are being deployed against their tradition roles and strengths. The Paras are used to working deep behind enemy lines as a recognisance force using a move, hit, move, hit strategy. At the moment they are being used to maintain fire support bases, remain sedentary and repel Taliban attacks add nauseam instead of taking the initative. This is not an Amry descision, its political as concerns about this being raised up to a Colonel level. Also once they were joined by a Danish light infantry group. When their commanders heard they were due to just sit there and survive being attacked they were pulled out. There we depolyed there less than a week.

4. Due to being spread so thin across numerous towns and the lack of helicopters (not to mention safe landing zones) supplies are falling unacceptably low. Sometimes as low as a few thousand rounds which would only last a couple of hours in an average fightfight and 1 MRE (meal packs) per day.

5. Even when supply changes are maintained, there are perennial shortages of certain items. For example: nightvision batteries. Soldiers often have to borrow these items off of other countries to just get by.

6. Having to put up with the continued corruption of the Afghan government, the Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police.

Those are the ones that come to mind, there were others.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

And guess who it was that oversaw and controlled that situation. and also additionally controlled the money

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

ooh ooh i love a good puzzle ...now let me think ...does it begin with G and end in B

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

I think it begins in G and ends in N actually. :D

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Gordon Numpty? :confused:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

:LOL:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

That is beneath you.:(

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Nope thats starts with G and ends with Y. :)

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

That would explain a lot, actually....;)

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Me too....

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

:tu:

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

So are people suggesting that soldiers should be free to beat up prisoners, or just that their punishment is too harsh?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

My view is that the punishment is too hard - when I was in the RAF, someone on my watch got beaten up (looked at someone's pint the wrong way) - he was less injured than the guy mentioned in the OP, and the assailant got two months inside, but stayed in the Mob.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

flyboy you are [ADMIN EDIT], how can anybody not appreciate the work our soldiers are doing ?

should of shot the entire lot of them that were digging in...

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

He's not said that at all. Just that they shouldn't be beating up prisoners (which I think is a sensible position).

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

The punishment was way out of order and over the top. But hey that's the norm now and will only get worse

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

i did not suggest they beat up prisoners did i ?, terrorists digging in ieds warrants a bullet if you ask me

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

no they shouldn't in an ideal world ,but unfortunately we don't live in one ,we have soldiers who are human and vunerable to the emotions that brings .Seargent leader was most likely reacting to having lost friends and comrades to the very same bombers (an assumption but quite possible)he had arrested so yes i do think a bit of leaway should be in order ,punish yes ,destroy no ,way to harsh imo

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

For those of you that are supporters of the punishment given to these two soldiers.

This is what they deal with every day. Not like you arm chair hand wringers

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...Lewis_Harrison

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

spot on i just couldn't word it so i didn't try lol

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

to all the Flyboy's out there i suggest you read this and then try to tell me or anyone else why we should give the taliban terrorists ANY kind of justice at all .

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

We do seem to have a few

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Isn't it one of the things that differentiates us from them?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

yes it is you are quite correct ...but when the people you are trying to introduce to western morals ,laws and justice are not interested and just want to blow you up how far do you go ?

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

What gets me is that if 4 men were spotted outside the camp then the responding soldiers should have been armed and on guard duty (you don't go outside of the camp except if you're armed and on official business)

Since when has a wellington boot been part of the kit of an on duty camp guard?

I think that there's a lot more of this story than has been published (like for example why he was given to the afghan police for what everyone is reporting as burying an IED when intelligence would have wanted him first)

It stinks from both sides and at this point reading all the reports I'm more than likely to suggest that the soldier went too far with an already secured prisoner and now he's looking for someone else to blame for he himself losing his career!!!

But that's just my own viewpoint...

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

This will explain

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

So he didn't even try to follow procedure? He waded right in and tackled the suspect after he assumed the wrong thing?

There are procedures for handling these situations with clear and defined guidelines as to when reasonable force should be used.. Hitting him with a boot to put him to the ground without first issuing a warning is not the way anyone is trained.. Every soldier should be trained as every soldier (even techies) are asked to perform guard duty, this involved training for approaching and apprehending suspects and prisoners.. It's not as though they couldn;t see he was unarmed as they already stated he was uncuffed..

I'm not saying that he didn't think that he was doing the right thing and in that respect I'd love to know what actions the Captain took?? Typical Sgt though jumped in assuming the worse and only then thinks of the implications..

I'd be suprised if there still wasn't more to this story and would be interested in seeing the official report

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

However it still should not have got to the point that they decided to ruin the lives of these two soldiers. There is far worse goes on every Friday and Saturday night in our towns and cities and you don't see this level of punishment going on for that. Bloody hell i did far worse than this on a few nights in Belfast and Londonderry during the riots.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Hence I said that I think we'll find that there's a lot more to this than the public reports.. For example what's the SGt's previous conduct and service reports like, what where the actual charges in relation to this incident, for him to have been removed from the army some sort of discipline hearing would have to have taken place and if there was no trails he would have had to have asked for a guilty plea to have been not only entered but accepted by the officer in charge (in the armed forces you can't just plead guilty it has to be analysed and accepted as a correct plea by the officer in charge of the disciplinary hearing)

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

I know i tapped the boards a few times myself as well as charged soldiers. ;)

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Aha, but you didn't get caught!!

As Lt Col Nick Jermyn from navy command headquarters said:

"We will always seek to bring to account those whose actions fall short of our high standards of behaviour, and the actions of these two individuals are not reflective of those of their colleagues in the Royal Marines, the Royal Navy or the wider armed forces."

Times have changed.

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Indeed

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

;)

Re: How not to treat a soldier
 

Why does none of this surprise me?