Britain's Islamic Republic
 

Media exaggeration / sensationalism, or good journalism? What do you think?
The Dispatches Video

Re: Britain's Islamic Republic
 

I watched it last week (or was it the week before) on Ch4, and thought it a rather interesting program....

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This episode went out on Monday 01 March. And yeah, it was really interesting.

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i saw one of these programs -and it claims that muslims are going after any political office [regardless of party politics] just to gain a voice to change the future of this country , i dont find it only interesting but very disturbing.

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There are enough racists and islamaphobes in Britain to ensure it never happens.

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I saw this programme when it aired, and whilst I too found that aspect disturbing, it was good to see that there were a lot of muslims out there who opposed it just as much.

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You can say that again mate....:)

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Judging by the Dispatches video, it already is.

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I've got no doubts Islam will play a bigger part in UK affairs over the next few decades but it won't overun the UK. You simply cannot iradicate the ignorance and fear of some people, especially when it's nurtured by the media. If these types of muslims were in positions of power right now then I doubt the Dispatches show would have broadcast.

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Given that no religion should play any part in UK affairs merely that it will play a 'bigger part' is more than bad enough.

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We all know there are those within the islamic community that actively want and probably are planning this to some degree. Wash rinse and repeat for every other group as well it is no secret and something most of us already knew it is upto us who gets into power and thats why people need to get interested in politics again to stop this sort of thing.

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Thats rather an over simplification of why people wouldn't want to live in a Dark Age's theocratic state.... On the other hand, I must commend you for being evocative. If I hadn't seen your name as poster, I'd have sworn it was one of Flyboy's....

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Tolerance is the key.

It might be over-simplification but it's one of the most effective. If the brain-donors of the EDL, WDL, BNP etc get involved in violent clashes while Islam is at the level it's at right now imagine the riots if Islam played a major part in the UK constitution.

As for being evocative, that wasn't my intention, it wasn't aimed at anyone on CF (unless there are people here who actively take part in BNP/EDL riots).

The knuckle draggers who usually frequent BNP rallies etc can be relied upon to ensure it never happens, although I'd like to think common sense in voters would be effective enough to make sure it never gets that far.

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While I am happy to agree with you 100% about the average membership of the BNP, EDL et al is likely to be a knuckle dragging moron. Your first post, like the statements that have been bandied about in the press for the last nine years, doesn't point to specific sections of the political or social spectrum. It reads to me, and perhaps to other as a broad statement that, if you are interested enough to watch, and comment on the rise of militant islam. Then you are,

a). A bigot.
b). A racist.
c). A fascist.
d). A xenophobe.

The fact that many people who aren't, or certainly wouldn't consider themselves to be any of the above. Get tarred with the same brush, by politicians, the more liberal sections of the media, and on boards such as this by someone such as you Russ. Makes people rather brassed of, but at the same time worried that anything they say will end up getting them labeled as a jackbooted nazi....

[e] - small edits to make the post slightly more readable.

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I think you're reading too much in to my post. If people are uncomfortable with Islam, I don't consider them to be racist. If some people express the opinion that they would not want Britain to be an Islam state then equally I would not call them racist. Even if there are some people who would actively prevent Islam from running the UK, I would not call them the racists I'm talking about.

I for one do not want the UK to be run by Islam. I am engaged to a British-Indian woman and I'll be taking on her 2 British-Indian children when we are married. She is a former Muslim (she took on the religion as part of her Sharia Law marriage to the children's father - that's a different story though). She has told me the other side of Islam. It will never appeal to me but it I can see it is, in the main a peaceful faith. But I am Christian and I'm happy for the UK to remain a (predominantly) Christian country, although there should always be room for opposing faiths and non-faiths.

The reason I digress is to demonstrate I don't consider everyone who opposed Islam to be racist. But in the context of the point I'm making, those who are happily racist and islamaphobic could be relied upon to ensure it never controls the UK although as I've stated, I hope it never gets that far.

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I think EOB is referring to the general atmosphere in this country these days if you are white and attempt to talk about anything non white in less then glowing ways you are quickly labelled as being one of the four groups he listed. I see what he is saying and i see your point Russ but these days it is so easy to get the wrong end of the stick on this particular subject :). Whilst i have nothing against islam or any religion i don't and never will support it being a major part of government or for it to be the main diplomatic means of a country i think there is a time and place for religion for those who choose to believe and it is not in the running of or representing of a state.

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i make no secret of my dislike of islam imo it has no place in our society its weighed to far in the male direction and just a few centuries out of date ,but if islam ups its game and becomes more in step with the times i'll have a rethink,and no i have no wish to go into any detail of my knowledge of islam before any one asks.

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I'm sick of pointing out that Islam is not about race.That many Muslims come from all continents and countries and that they come in all shades of skin colour.Muslims also come in differing flavours of Islam.

So do Christians,Hindus,Buddhists,Jews and just about every religion in this world.

No I don't want to live in country that is predominately run by the muslim faith but then again I don't want ANY religion to hold political sway.

I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

In other words I wish to live in a democracy.I don't see that changing because a few Muslims want to participate in that democracy.:rolleyes:

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I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

Fine thinking maggie but its never going to happen,and here you go again with your democracy rubbish.
i've told you we live in a dictatorship.
An example,take vicars and priests they are now going to be told that they will have to hold ceramonies (marriages in all but name) for homosexuals in there churches.no one consulted them about this,this government just decided to do it even though it will go against some vicars and priests faith.i suppose if the vicars or priests refuse they leave themselves open for prosecution just like the B&B lady has.
now you tell me whats democratic about that,in my opinion the said vicars and priests are being dictated to by a government that should keeps its nose out of religion.

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Ho hum! :rolleyes:

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Actually, you are mistaken re the ceremonies/marriage consultation - the Churches, other religions, and secular organisations (Equality Commission’s Religion and Belief Consultative Group, set up in 2004) have been in discussions about this and other things for quite a while - they're having a bit of a tiff at the moment, but hopefully will resume talks soon.

But don't let facts ruin a good rant.;)

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this would be the dictatorship where we have a free vote on who runs the country in a couple of months time :rolleyes:



personally i wish the aliens would hurry up and make first contact so we can take religion out of the equation all together

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Speaking of which: he seems to have managed to fit in here rather quickly. A bit too quick even perhaps... :scratch:

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oh yes clever,check what happened in the house of lords last night and on the 3rd of march,its only got to go back through the commons then this equalities bill will pass into law and vicars will have to marry gays or leave themselves open to prosecution just like the b&b owner did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ists-fear.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7047572.ece

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:D

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[QUOTE=martyh;34986637]this would be the dictatorship where we have a free vote on who runs the country in a couple of months time :rolleyes:

Thats right.Then where's your democracy for the next 4 or 5 years until you get to put your piece of paper in the big tin box again.Are you gonna be consulted on anything the new government want to do in this time,will we be offered a referendum on anything i doubt it.we will be told to like it or lump it just like we always have in other words dictated to.
governments love people like you just lie back and take it there a good boy or girl or whatever.

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could you tell me what's wrong with a priest performing a civil partnership
are you objecting because they are gay or because it is becoming part of British law and you think you are being dictated to

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We live in a representative democracy and that is not the same thing as a dictatorship, even an elected dictatorship. The only remedy to your complaint ash would be for us to do as the Swiss do and put almost everything to a referendum. That's simply not practical in a country of this size.

If what we already have was made to work as it was intended, there wouldn't be a problem. Parliament is perfectly able to hold the executive to account, but sadly over many years Parliament has become ever more content to sit back and do as it's told. There is however no constitutional reason for it to remain like that.

I'm very impressed by some of the arguments coming out of the USA at the moment with regard to Obama's health reform - whatever you think about that legislation, it is apparently significant that it was passed by a Democrat-dominated congress without a single Republican vote of support. The fact that it is significant in US politics for legislation to pass without support from any 'opposition' politicians at all speaks volumes. Here in the UK we expect votes in the Commons to play out along strict party lines and it's headline news when someone decides to be a rebel. But it does not need to be that way.

We need a few more free-thinking MPs and far fewer bullying whips and party managers.

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Never mind asking the chiefs,they want to get out there and ask the indians what they think of the idea,better still ask the congregation of these churches.
see what i mean its always a few making the rules for the many.what sort of a democracy is that.
And as for the bishops you mentioned they want to try living in the real world instead of living in there ivory towers.
I know quite a few people who attend church and they are against gay marriages in church and they think vicars should not be put in this position.I even know of devout christians who have left the c of e and become catholic because of gay vicars and bishops.

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[QUOTE=ashgray;34986671]i don't like the government we have at the moment any more than you appear to ,but that doesn't make it a dictatorship ,when we have a general election we vote on the party of choices' policies as they set them out for the next term of office if we don't like them we don't vote for them ,we get a choice we also get a choice every time the local elections come around we also get a choice to lobby our local MP's and he will ask a question on our behalf in the commons .As for referendums ,well,you can't have one every time the government wants to make a decision ,nothing would ever get done

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

then the people who have left the c of e because they object to gay vicas and civil partnerships don't deserve to be a member of any church and the c of e is better without them
and they probably have asked the "indians" what they think and the majority of the "indians" have said they approve of gay vicas and civil partnerships

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sure i will,you call it a civil partnership i and many others call it a marriage'
i object because they are gay and in the eyes of the lord homosexuality is an abbomination it is the work of the devil and in my opinion people of this persuasion should not be allowed on sacred ground let alone into a church.
i object because this law will be forced onto the clergy and open them up for possible prosecution just like the B&B lady.
the gays can already have civil ceromanies elsewhere why do they have to have it in church.
If its all about equality tough its a cruel world,and if they want to marry in church that much let them start there own church with there own gay clergy.there's plenty of unused churches out there why don't they ask the church hierachy to let them have a few of these empty churches.
problem solved
simples.

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ok, putting aside the homophobic rant which i will treat as the ignorant rubbish it is ,you have to realise that the church isn't being forced to do anything read the times link that YOU posted
Also you are only allowed to have such thoughts and have the means to voice them or put them in print because we don't live in a dictatorship


i am now going to do what most people on this forum ,gays and straight are probably doing and that is ignore any more posts from you

Re: Britain's Islamic Republic
 

"then the people who have left the c of e because they object to gay vicas and civil partnerships don't deserve to be a member of any church and the c of e is better without them
and they probably have asked the "indians" what they think and the majority of the "indians" have said they approve of gay vicas and civil partnerships"

Some of these people you say don't deserve to be members of the c of e have worshipped for 50 years and more.they have paid there due's to the church every week.
in my opinion they deserve to be in the c of e a million times more than a couple of gays who wants to get married in church just because they can and to say up yours to people like me.

And no ordinary members of the congregation have ever been consulted on these issuse.they have been told its going to happen and theres nothing you can do about it.

its just another case of politicians poking there nose where its not wanted because they can't leave anything alone.

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hmmm i smell a Christian in the house ;)

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Er what the hell has homosexuality got to do with this thread in anyway shape or form thats putting aside the rather ignorant rant that has already occured. If your that unhappy about the whole gay marriage thing make a thread about it don't hijack someone elses. So we're all agreed we don't want any form of religious state and most of us will oppose such a thing, thats sorted that then :).

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Perhaps there is a fear that we will all be forced into same-sex marriages in Muslim-run Britain? :shrug:

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Now thats not very nice is it.i suppose you were one of those kids that asked for your ball back when you were a kid because you were getting beat at football.

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i dont know about that but

The Islamic Republic of Iran--under the new government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad--is engaged in a major anti-homosexual pogrom targeting gays and gay sex. This campaign includes Internet entrapment, blackmail to force arrested gays to inform on others, torture and executions of those found guilty of engaging in "homosexual acts."

Homosexual acts have been considered a capital crime in Iran since the 1979 revolution that brought the Ayatollah Khomeini to power. Iranians found guilty of gay lovemaking are given a choice of four death styles: being hanged, stoned, halved by a sword or dropped from the highest perch. According to Article 152 of Iran's penal law, if two men not related by blood are found naked under one cover without good reason, both will be punished at a judge's discretion.

http://skeptically.org/hhor/id10.html

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I very much doubt it.

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

And whats wrong with that.

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oh nothing at all
its just there seem to be two types of Christian in the world nice ones who live there own lives and allow others to do the same and intolerant ones who get there beak into every one elses business and promises the wrath of God to any one they disapprove of .

carry on;)

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No replies then about gays having there own churches then,after all they've got there own gay bars why not there own gay churches.

or is no one communicating with me just like spoiled children.

and with this thread being about islam do you think this government will tell the muslim clerics that they will have to allow these civil ceromonies in there mosques.
I very much doubt it.

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Guys and gals, you just have to read ashgay's posts to realise he is not looking for a discussion, he just wants to rant and rave - he doesn't read/take any notice of any contradictory evidence to his world view, so it's pretty pointless trying to have a rational discussion with him.

ash, baby, you stated in a previous post And I know quite a few people who attend church (me and my family being amongst them) who have no issues with ceremonies being held in church, and are pleased that the amendment leaves it up to the vicar, as they believe that love is a wonderful thing, and it should be celebrated, not decried, no matter the sexuality of the couple involved.

btw, you don't see the irony of people leaving the C of E because of "gay vicars and bishops" at a time of great scandal in the RC church due to kiddy-fiddling with young boys? (I am ex-RC (as far as anyone ever can be ex-RC), and I find the Pope's letter a welcome first step, but only a very small first step - it wasn't social changes that caused the problem, it was frustrated celibate priests).

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watch your r's mate you seem to be dropping them :D


found this
http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Chur...d_a_church.htm
so anyone looking for a gay friendly church so they dont have to meet up with mr bigot and co .

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So it should be ignore,ignore,ignore from everyone.

Anyway I'm going boss eyed with weariness.

Try to play nicely.:)

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I am playing nicely,i can't help it if you people don't like what i write.

it takes all sorts to make a world.

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A new definition of "nicely" I hadn't come across before.;)

Didn't Jesus say "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

I don't see anything there about "except teh gayz". :D

Surely love is better than hate, and I am sorry to say, ashgray, that your posts appear nearer to hate than love (imho).

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That's a bit like telling me that you don't like chocolate ice cream so I shouldn't like it either :erm:

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Thank you, Gary, for your (as ever) valuable and well-thought out contribution to the debate. :)

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Closing this thread while I kick some butt for ignoring an admin request.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 22:25 ----------

Reopening the thread, keep it on topic or infractions will be issued.

Please do not ignore mod/admin requests.

Re: Britain's Islamic Republic
 

Wouldn't opposing anything concerned with promoting Islam be considered a race or religious hate crime?

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Wouldn't that be a race or religious hate crime?



Hmmm............I see a pattern emerging.

Re: Britain's Islamic Republic
 

No.

The only pattern emerging is one of your own imagination, firing up your doubts and fears.