The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Welcome to the official Cable Forum General Election Thread, week 3. This is the place to discuss any and all political stories during this week of the campaign. There is an opinion poll - please use it to indicate your voting intentions. There will be many more parties standing for election than we have room for, so please make use of the 'other' or 'none of the above' options if you need to.

This thread will remain open for one week. After that it will be replaced with a new thread with a new poll. This will allow us to see how voting intentions change and crystallize as polling day approaches. The final thread in this series will open on the day of the election with an exit poll so we can see which party wins the seat for Cable Forum Central.

Please do not start any other political threads during the election campaign. They will be closed.

This is a continuation of the thread for week 2, which is now closed, but which you can still see here.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Yes, until now the other major parties have enjoyed the luxury of being able to largely ignore the Lib Dems and, as a result, they've slipped under the radar. Having made Brown look like a pathetic middle aged groupie with a crush on a 'pretty' young thing (something he'll always have my respect for!), Clegg is in for a rough ride and about to find out how the 'premier league' conducts its business. It'll be interesting to see if he rises to the challenge or.......

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

That is what the Telegraph are doing, The Sun and Mail are just smearing him as much as possible to try and stop him preventing the Tories.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Nice persecution complex, woe is me! :p:

They all take smears from their respective opponents, in the case of the Tories it's the Mirror and, more subtlely, the BBC. Lib Dems had it easy because they weren't considered worth the effort. The extent to which Vince Cable unravelled on the Daily Politics show yesterday wasn't good, we'll see if they can actually stand up to the scrutiny they haven't experienced yet.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Not a problem i am happy to correct the quote

So how does he intend to do that ?????

Is that a better quote for you, btw the corrections are in red

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 ----------

If he wants to play with the big kids, He needs to act like one of them. He has moved out of the junior section of politics and into the senior section and the crap throwing that it brings with it. If he cannot handle this what would he be like when we need him to support us in negotiations with other countries and we all know how nasty that can get..

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

I heard the Mail is considering adding Nick Clegg to its list of things that Could Cause Cancer ...

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

The quote is nowhere need as outrageous in the context of the topic. He is talking about the attitude of the British Press and some people towards Germany and it was written in the mist of a slew of articles about the Germany economy.

Therefore I would suggest the 'Put in our place' would mean to recognise that we could learn a lot from Germany and their economy rather than dismissing them. The two people that you were put in red were people who sued for constructive dismissal because of nazi songs/slogans/jokes directed at them for being German. That is the mindset he was referring too.

So his quote is understandable in that context.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

Well does his square with the amount of criticism Labour get's for smearing the Tories? We're either against spin, smears and "dirty" politics or we are for it when it's in our favour. Which is it?

The Lib Dems deserve to be investigated. Clegg's donations, lobbying past are part of this. However, The Mail and Sun's campaigns are no different to what Labour did,. only more intense.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

I agree. While I mean no disrespect to anyone who has fought in a war (after all, without the efforts of the armed forces in WWII, we would be speaking german now), the war finished 60 odd years ago. Before most of the current population of both the UK and Germany were born. In a lot of cases, before their parents were born. It's also worth pointing out that the Germans I have met have been extremely polite, friendly people and are (if anything) more horrified by what the Nazis did than we are.

Germany now is NOT the same country it was then. We bang on about what a great country we are, and how bad the Germans are, but who is better off? We have mass unemployment and a debt that is greater than the GDP of a lot of countries. The Germans were similarly affected by the world wide recession, but were able to turn their economy around far quicker than we have been. We also have failing public transport systems, and while they are certainly not underfunded, thanks to privatisation, a lot of the money we give to the companies running them isn't actually being spent on improving or maintaining the networks. From what I have seen, German public transport is an order of magnitude better.

As Nick Clegg notes, the average German is also 6% better off than the average Brit. Why? Could it be that they actually worked to improve their lot rather than just bitch about how everyone else made it worse for them?

The war was 60 years ago. We do need to get over it, and work to improve things.

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

Oh, and if anyone wants to find the Mail's origins, it was founded by (amongst others) the then Lord Rothermere, who was a friend of Adolf Hitler. It also apparently published articles criticising the repatriation of "stateless Jews" in Britain (no change there, then)..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

Also, if that article is correct, then it seems that Lord Rothermere wrote to Hitler congratulating him on annexing Czechoslovakia, and urging him to invade Romania.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

There is a new war and its over deck chairs and sun loungers :LOL:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Chris Huhne may regret making this statement The Times CV (from two years ago) for Nick Clegg states What that misses out is that Mr Clegg worked in 1991 as a Trainee at the European Commission, Brussels. DGI, G-24 Co-ordination Unit, and for GPlus (another lobbying firm) 2004-05, where he described his work as Besides a trainee journalist post for six months, and some part-time lecturing for under a year, what is this "career doing real work outside the political system" that Nick Huhne refers to?:confused:

(strangely enough, if it's "no secret", why is neither lobbying job mentioned on Nick's CV on the Lib Dem website....;) ).

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

:D:D:D

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Yes odd that eh....:confused:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Thank you for that Damien, I was wondering about the context and how it was truly presented. But, sadly, I am in agreement about the fact that it will be greatly ignored by the gutter press and therefore the uninformed masses will just behave like sheep and believe what they are told to believe. :(

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

But, as you well know, that paragraph is pointless when not taken into context the entire article. Or are you proud of a Britain that could sponsor such blatant racism? Something, which many need to be reminded, the war was fought to prevent.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Daily Mail Lib Dem headline generator: http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/

I think this is going to back fire on the Tories anyway, People aren't stupid and they will probably end up being turned off from the negative headlines. Even the valid ones (i.e Telegraph) will be lost/dismissed amongst the slime.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

BNP facing Marmite legal injunction - BBC

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Careful with the righteous indignation, you didn't seem to have this many objections when mud was flung elsewhere, for example this rather debatable Lib Dem poster:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44845223@N02/4502514442/

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

It worked for the Tories in ninteen ninety-two.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Just as well it's 2010 really. I seriously doubt we want to start looking back to the past.

Things can only get better!

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Well after 13 years of New Labour failure, hypocrisy, profligacy, mismanagement, lies and spin let's hope so!...

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

This said the Daily Mail's front page is laughable but not unexpected from said right-wing propaganda publication. I wouldn't say they are in any way related to the Tories though. I wouldn't say they're related to anything in the real world as far as 90% of their output goes. The only upside is they can publish things more PC publications don't want to but 90% of their output, the front page today included, it total gibberish.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

does anyone know where i can watch tonights debate live stream on my laptop .I watched it last week on itv player (on lappy)and the stream was absolute rubbish constant out of sync sound and buffering

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Here perhaps.......

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

thanks a lot Daddy :tu::tu:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

great post! Being a Scotsman raised in Germany ( with a german accent :D )
I have to agree with Clegg.
Britain lives much too much in the past.It's easy to slag off the germans,but how does that make us any better,or superior?Germany has done so much better than we have,so no reason for smugness there.
However,I do have to say I prefer living here. :) Britain has a much more open and tolerant way of living,and the possibilities for social ascension or much better.

So: Halt's Maul England!! :p:

oh,also: I LOVE YOU GREAT BRITAIN!!

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

What "roll over & give in" attitude?

Still also curious as to why the Lib Dems are "tree huggers" (they're not the Green Party! ;) )... Is it simply because the party's name contains the word "Liberal"? :confused: (I know that many people still for some reason consider the word "Liberal" to be A Bad Thing, or use it as an insult).


LOL!

Awesome! :D

"IS NICK CLEGG TURNING BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY GAY?"

"WILL NICK CLEGG GIVE COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY CANCER?"



Oh, and "#nickcleggsfault" has been trending on Twitter today (top hashtag in the UK today, & the 2nd most used hashtag today worldwide)....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ewspaper-swipe

I love the Internet!

I remember the last time we heard that... Oh, how the joy soon turned to bitter disappointment... :(

----------------------------

Very interesting article: "Will Murdoch lose Britain?"

----------------------------

Guardian "Comment is free" by Jonathan Freedland: "Nick Clegg will survive Fleet Street broadside"

----------------------------

"Election 2010: heading for battle on defence spending"

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

COULD NICK CLEGG TURN CLIFF RICHARD GAY?

:rofl:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Allegedly, the BNP plan to rerun the ad replacing the jar of marmite with a tub of lard.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Good. Party Election Broadcasts should feature their leaders anyway.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Someone really should tell Nick Clegg the phrase 'old parties' is getting, well, old.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Clegg is not as polished tonight and Brown is still sucking up to clegg

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Especially since the Liberal Party was founded in 1858, before the Labour Party :D (yes, I know the Libs merged with the SDP in 1988).

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Brown is doing much better though. Cameron better but not enough I don't think. Clegg not as great. Draw so far i reakon, or Brown edging it...

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Agreed

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Brown's opportunism, sound bites even if they're nothing to do with the question and taking pot shots is irritating. Cameron is much more impressive and aggressive this time.

---------- Post added at 21:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

I actually find Brown's pot shots quite irritating points scoring.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Cameron did well to smash Brown's leaflets and calling them lairs, and Brown couldn't counter. Tried to weakly suggest that he didn't authorise them, well of course not, they give that responsibility to someone else so they seem clean. Cameron didn't tell The Sun to go smash the Liberal Democrates but he knew they would on their behalf.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

Channel 4 poll as Clegg ahead, he has done ok. Cameron did really well on Europe, Clegg as got better. Brown is up and down but I thought he was ahead. Guardian poll tracker (much more informal though) has Lib Dems ahead but then we expect that from the Guardian don't we :D

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

What, John Prescott??..... :confused:

:D


Re the debates, Brown has one massive disadvantage to overcome that doesn't apply to the other leaders. Those of us who aren't fully paid up members of the selective amnesia, "it's all Thatcher's fault", rose tinted specs brigade know that what he and his miserable party have said, done, promised and actually delivered over more than a decade have all too often been entirely different things!

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

We had this question last week!!? What idiot decided three, one and a half hour debates was a good idea?

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Cameron is such a wuss. Gordon Brown banging on about taking 6 billion out of the economy there are two really simple responses:

1) Gordon, reducing VAT by 2.5% at the cost of over 20bn was considered stimulating, why would increasing taxes be considered stimulating?
2) Gordon, taxation is taking money out of the economy. The state is not the economy, the private sector is.

Repeating myself, and in the words of Barack Obama, what a lightweight.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

at least with a imigration amnesty you would have a better idea how many illegals are in the country ,the other 2 dismiss the idea that there are any illegals

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Think longer term. Family class immigration applications based on amnestied relatives, more illegals turning up in hope of getting amnesty. Sound good?

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

You would need to secure the borders better as well, we're obviously already a desired destination so I think the issue of people being encouraged to come here has already been lost.

Cleggs rebuttal to Brown's 'deport them' answer with 'You can't deport them, you don't know where the live" was good.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

The solution to that would be to make us a less desirable destination, which of course can't be done while we are obliged to follow laws set in Brussels.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Its down to the libs or the tories its as simple as that.

Labour are dead in the water and they know it..

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

How do you make it less desirable? Economic strength, tolerant multi-cultural society are two of the things which attract people here. Two things that benefit us, essentially the better we are as a country the more attractive we are to the rest of the world.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

Brown was better than last week. Cameron about the same to be honest. Clegg as bit worse.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

So GB accuses Clegg of being anti-american. Is that supposed to be an insult?

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Welfare state. We want people who can contribute, and be welcoming to them. People turning up hoping to sponge off us must have it made very clear they'll get nothing.

Cameron was weak apart from one segment which was when I commented. Lightweight who needs to get some cajones, some substance and wake up before next week. So many very simple counters he failed to supply.

Perhaps I'm being too harsh on him but I was so frustrated with him.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

before we start any new action on immigration we need to know how many illegals are here ,nobody expects it to be a permanent amnesty it only needs to be for maybe 1 yr any illegal that can prove they have been here longer than 12 months can choose to work and pay into the system ,or if they can't find work then community service or they can choose to be deported .I'm afraid that as distastefull as it would be to a lot of people i think it's the only way to go

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

My point is that Labour for the first time are on the back foot and they have become the third party behind the Tories and the Libs. That is something i could not have guessed 6 weeks ago. It refreshing to see the election take this course.

I could even be turned to the libs if it was not for the trident issue. I just cannot trust them on defence

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

I think the debate has just started actually..

Former Lib leader Paddy Ashdown rowing with David Milliband on Sky news right now...

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

The evidence based on other countries that have done amnesties says otherwise in a huge way. What I gave weren't my opinions, they were the experience of the USA after amnesty.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Cameron has won according to the Ugov poll... on Sky news right now....

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

According you YouGov Cameron won :confused: I think he started well...

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

How? The amnesty would apply only to those who've been here for 10 years IIRC.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

I don't believe that YouGov poll will be reflected elsewhere.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Lets see ?

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Can someone put a big plaster over that gobby Alastair Campbell..... Useless idiot.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

I am very surprised they put Cameron ahead. I guess it's not by much but I would have put Brown or Clegg ahead because as the debate went on Cameron seemed more and more marginal and quiet.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

YouGov: David Cameron 36%, Nick Clegg 32%, Gordon Brown 29%

Guardian live blog poll: Clegg 63.8%, Brown 28.4%, Cameron: 7.7% (although obviously, as they admit themselves, "it's a self-selecting audience" ;) )

Channel 4 live blog poll: Nick Clegg 52%, Gordon Brown 31%, David Cameron 17%

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Ignore the Guardian poll because, it's the Guardian :D (I am a reader though).

Channel 4 is interesting. I wouldn't put Cameron that far behind.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Yup, 10 years & no criminal record (apart from being, well, an illegal immigrant of course).

That's actually longer than the cut-off in the amnesty proposed by Boris: 5 years.

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Well, as they said "self selecting audience". Not going to find too many people who support Cameron using the Guardian website! :D

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

I disagree. Cameron was more focused and didn't really get entwined with the bickering between Clegg and Brown.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

ITV.com Fun Poll: Nick Clegg 47%; Gordon Brown 41%; David Cameron 12% :)

ITV Comres poll: Clegg 33%; Brown 30%; Cameron 30%

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

COMRES out in a min.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Are these polls worth anything :erm: i just cant believe some of them. well any of them

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

But it's a debate, he is meant to interact. He did what he did last week, it took the format of a political speech and looked unnatural. The debate might be a stupid format though, but his best moment what calling Brown out on the leaflets.

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

COMRES

Clegg: 33%. Brown and Cameron on 30%.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Funny how this week we had Cameron saying "I agree with Gordon" (twice?), instead of Brown saying "I agree with Nick".

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

The winner gets some momentum in the news cycle that follows. Clegg did well but the 24 hours of "Clegg wins the debate" stories would have had a bigger impact than the debate itself IMO.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Well I suppose we'd at least be able to show just how ineffectual the immigration system has been in recent years by finding out just how many people have lived here illegally for a decade or more.... Perhaps that's why Brown doesn't want one - it'd expose all the rhetoric and ineptitude of his pathetic party.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Dam i missed it again :D

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

These snap polls are just silly. They're all over the place.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Yup I think draw. There are silly but if you look at The Sun and The Mail they can use the first poll as indication Cameron won. The Mirror will use the other two to show that Cameron lost.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Polls. Who cares what other people think? I'll be voting for the party I think represents the best compromise for the majority of my views. It won't be New Labour or the BNP.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Week three and I still can't choose who are the least crap.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

I've just seen this on Twitter:



---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Back to the "smears"...

"Does one good smear deserve another?"
"Nick Clegg under attack ahead of second election debate"



---------- Post added 23-04-2010 at 01:03 ---------- Previous post was 22-04-2010 at 23:22 ----------

Now this is very interesting...

"'Sun' censored poll that showed support for Lib Dems"


The YouGov results are in an article here:

"Could the Lib Dems win outright?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------


Johann Hari - "The forces that have been blocking British democracy are becoming visible in this election"

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Yes Spain has tried amnesty's before, think they are on their six or seventh amnesty now, they don't work they just encourage people to lie low until the next one. The Liberals policy here is really making me consider voting against them.

---------- Post added at 05:40 ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 ----------

Wonder what the result would have been if people had listened instead of watching. I watched last week and had Clegg well ahead and listened this week and Brown was the best imo, he was the only one who didn't sound like he'd swallowed a PR manual. Last week I thought the debates were an inovative way of getting parties messages to voters, now after listening I think they are no more than a high brow Big Brother, we really do get the politicians we deserve.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

ALL Mp's from all party's always remind me of this section of Whoops Apocalypse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4L-f...eature=related

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

the debate showed cleggs true colors on defense- ie we aint having any :td:
Brown has nothing to offer but fear and lies :td:
and cameron was focused and to the point and was the clear winner imo :tu:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 

Well Margaret Thatcher when asked to do a similar debate refused because she said it would turn politics into 'Entertainment'.I agreed with her then(probably the only time I ever did) and I think she is danger of being proved right now.

*Sorry for yet again invoking the Iron Lady but I suspect that she would have won such a debate and it was very generous of her not to participate. ;)

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

My vote hasn't changed although I was thinking very hard about the LD after that first debate.

Now I'm thinking each of the broadcasters topics are customed to each of the partys' manifesto

LD win ITV
C win Sky
L win BBC (should)

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

I choose not to vote on account there all parasites who do nothing every year but see fit to make false promises to the public.

The event itself is nothing short of a self indulgent glutton of a farce. I have been seeing "decision time" now for so long on Sky news it's a joke. Take's me a second to make a decision but this is just a minor gripe with the whole "debate"

Until Jon Gaunt runs for prime minister (which will never happen), the public can have whoever they like

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

I liked Camerons constant refrain about Brown using the politics of fear when he himself used the same tactic to attack the Lib Dems about Trident.

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 ----------

Surprise Surprise :rolleyes:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Was it just a coincidence but i was watching the football last night then flicked radio 4 on to listen to the debate does mr cameron say anything else apart from " i was talking to this man and he said this and this one said that" or was i just unlucky :erm: is that his plan for the debates or does it get better.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

The comments here are amusing and yet scary.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Latest Tory poster

http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X134...cky-pollard%2F

In reaction to this, which Gordon Brown said (on last night's debate) he didn't approve, but it's on the Labour Party website

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/04/26.jpg

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

http://tweetphoto.com/19486464

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/...etters_8pg.jpg

:rolleyes:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Strange, in the Tory Manifesto 2010, page 42, it states And the Labour Manifesto 2010, page 6:4, states There's nothing about free bus passes (only concessionary public-transport fares) in the Labour Manifesto - does that mean they intend to scrap them?;)

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

I just hate the way New Labour consistently claim that those who oppose their spending plans must, by definition, oppose ANY spending targeted at those areas. It's perfectly possible to disagree with, say, a specific plan aimed at the elderly simply because you feel there are better, more effective means by which to achieve the same ends.

On the subject of immigration Brown and his cronies have been banging on for years about how it was the Tories who abolished exit controls and that's what has led to so much chaos. What they don't say, however, is that the Tories abolished exit controls for EU citizens in 1994 and New Labour did the same in respect of NON EU citizens (i.e. the rest of the world) in 1998! Selective amnesia??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/elec...tatistics.html

Even Chris Huhne seems to agree:

http://www.chrishuhne.org.uk/news/48...rotection.html

But we won't let facts get in the way of the argument will we? :rolleyes:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Vote for the Tories if you want your pants taking down bending over and bum raping by the millionaire gang.

If you really want to be took all the way and be sailed down the river vote Lib Dem.

If you like what we've got now albeit we are in a recession which every Government has witnessed then vote Labour.

Me I'll be voting labour.

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------


Cameron will not keep the winter fuel allowance, that will be the 1st thing he'll scrap along with the minimum wage. He's got to keep his millionaire sponsors / business owners happy hasn't he?

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Thank you for your rational rebuttal, Mr Campbell.

btw, how are your millionaire donors Lord Paul, Lakshmi Mittal, Bernie Ecclestone, et al?

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Can't argue with these facts can you?? Will they be the same after a year of Tory rule? Doubt it somehow.

The shortest waiting times since NHS records began.
Three million more operations carried out each year than in 1997, with more than double the number of heart operations.
Over 44,000 more doctors.
Over 89,000 more nurses
Over three quarters of GP practices now offer extended opening hours for at least one evening or weekend session a week.
All prescriptions are now free for people being treated for cancer or the effects of cancer, and teenage girls are offered a vaccination against cervical cancer.
The NHS can now guarantee that you will see a cancer specialist within two weeks if your GP suspects you may have cancer. Whatever your condition, you will not have to wait more than 18 weeks from GP referral to the start of hospital treatment – and most waits are much shorter than this.
Over 100 new hospital building schemes completed.

3,500 Sure Start Children’s Centres opened, reaching over 2.8 million children and their families.
Over 42,000 more teachers and 212,000 more support staff, including 123,000 more teaching assistants, than in 1997.
There have been around 3,700 rebuilt and significantly refurbished schools; including new and improved classrooms, laboratories and kitchens.
A free nursery place for every 3 and 4 year old - extended to 15 hours per week this year, beginning to provide 10 hours a week to the most deprived 2 year olds.
Doubled the number of registered childcare places to more than 1.3 million, one for every four children under eight years old.
More young people attending university than ever before.
In 1997 more than half of all schools saw less that 30 per cent of their pupils fail to get 5 good GCSEs including English and Maths. Now only 247 schools – less than one in twelve - fail this benchmark and there are guarantees that no school should fail this mark after 2011.
Increased school funding to support the delivery of higher standards. Between 1997-98 and 2009-10, total funding per pupil has more than doubled from £3,030 in 1997-98 to £6,350 in 2009-10 in real terms, an increase of 110 per cent.


Since 1997 overall crime is down 36 per cent; domestic burglary is down 54 per cent; vehicle related crime is down 57 per cent; and violent crime is down 41 per cent.
A new flexible Australian-style points-based system for immigration to ensure only those economic migrants who have the skills our economy needs can come to work in the UK.
Police numbers up by almost 17,000 since 1997, alongside more than 16,000 Police Community Support Officers.
Every community now has its own dedicated neighbourhood police team, easily contactable by the people who live in that community and working with them to agree local priorities and deal with people’s concerns.


Thanks to Mark Watson for the above.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

The big irony there is that under New Labour the rich have got richer and the poor have been left behind...... :confused:

However don't let that stop anyone who isn't an actual or aspiring millionaire voting for them eh?.... :D

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

And you being a Tory supporter would know that wouldn't you? Sod you Jack I'm OK.

If the public school bafoons AKA The Tories ever get in power again the economy will be in ruins in no time. If you think labour politcians are untrustworthy slimeballs (which they are - don't get me wrong) wait till you see the Tory lot in action. Cameron will say ANYTHING to get in power. Um..yeah we'll save billions by being more efficient. What!!? Hardly creative cutting edge economics. The people who'll take the biggest shafting at the end of the day will be ordinary working class people and the NHS and schools will be in much much worse shape than they are now.

You wouldn't remember the Tory rule of the 80's would you? People were robbing sheep off the fields to feed their famlies because they were that skint.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Wow - that's really impressive; they did all that in a year.;)

You're right, course - no Government could equal the accomplishments of the last 13 years of New Labour. (you know, the Iraq War, diminishment of civil liberties, highest unemployment for 15 years, lowest growth, etc etc) :D

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

Yep I'm loving the doubling of the national debt since 1997 along with Labour's overly optimistic plans which will still result in it being increased by another 50% over the next years and very much looking forward to leaving the next generation to pick up the bills because this one is so selfishly hooked on state and welfare and refuse to give any of it up just because it's unaffordable.

I'm sure plenty like what we've got. Shame that, through Labour's policies and disregard for fiscal responsibility, we're stealing from our children to get it. Gordon Brown has ensured that they will all have more debt, directly gained from his tenure as Chancellor and PM, than it cost to school them. Indeed interest payments have just overtaken the cost of education.

But hey, we're alright Jack, the public sector having enlarged by a million still hiring like crazy even when private enterprise is feeling the pinch and tax receipts are dropping, having ever increasing bureaucracy, more welfare, more tax credits, more wasted money going to an administration tied police, more money for the NHS being burned on non-front line services.

Through all this mass of spending and enlargement of the public sector we have the most people out of work since records began and the only group actually hiring being the government. Yes, it's our children's future they're mortgaging to do this hiring.

Of course you'll still vote Labour. If you actually believe what you wrote the minor issue of facts isn't going to bother you. Certainly doesn't bother the Labour party, it's neatly filed next to running deficits in the 'We don't care' pile.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

I can certainly argue with these facts, I'll just pick on a couple though for now as I'm busy.

Try again. Labour changed the way the data was compiled in 2002. If we actually compare like for like...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-revealed.html

Introduced in 2008, after 11 years of Labour rule, during which time we experienced record immigration and record emmigration by British-born citizens.

Well needed to cope with all the additional paperwork.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ff-the-beat.do

Couldn't be bothered with showing that the NHS is hiring more administration staff than doctors or nurses, or that there are more managers than consultants within the NHS. Sound bites are easy to copy/paste. Now let's go into something that doesn't look so hot.

In 1997 debt was at 41.2% of GDP and the country was running a surplus, prior to a recession in the 90s it had gone as low as 25.27% as the Tory governments paid the bills. We then had a fantastic debt fuelled 11 years of growth, the majority of which once the Tories' budgets had run out was spent by Gordon Brown running a deficit. In 2010 we have debt of 53.5% of GDP, this ignoring any liabilities from nationalised banks, etc, which put it a shade over 60%.

This is actually creative financing as there's another 56.6bn off the balance sheet in PFI and PPP liabilities.

The government is hoping to reduce our deficit to a mere 5.6% of GDP in 4 years and their plans have been derided as hopelessly optimistic. As a country we'll have a net public sector debt of over a trillion pounds before then end of the next government.

Those my friend are facts, you can obtain them from the Office of National Statistics and Parliament's libraries rather than sound bites from a Labour supporter.

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

While we're discussing all that you might get a kick out of this:

Labour are spending money at a similar rate, as a % of GDP, to Sweden, a country where taxation is nearly 50% of the entire country's income, close to the rate of France and are spending more as a % of the economy than Germany or the Netherlands.

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

You're making one hell of a lot of assumptions there! Firstly, I'm not a Tory, don't allign myself with any party and feel ashamed to say I actually believed Bliar in 1997 and voted for him! Secondly I do very well remember the 80's thanks - I had an ordinary job a mortgage and sky high interest to pay then just like so many other people. Unlike the rose tinted specs brigade who can bear no criticism when it comes to New Labour's appalling record, I can bring myself to criticise some of what went on then. However, that's totally irrellevant to today after 13 years of Bliar and Brown supposedly putting everything right when in fact they've wasted and lost ££billions that could and should have been properly spent on the NHS, our schools etc.

As for Cameron (or anyone else for that matter) being prepared to say anything to gain power, well the biggest example of a party doing that has been New Labour under Blair and Brown since 1997. Lies, spin, lies, spin, more lies and more spin..... I've been casting my eye over their previous manifestos and the same old promises appear again and again but that doesn't appear to register with you. I've had enough of Brown taking away my civil liberties, peeing my taxes up against the wall and forcing future generations into debt when he's not out there being 'prudent', 'saving the world' and 'abolishing the cycle of boom and bust'. :rolleyes:

Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

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Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 3
 

That was because they were on strike AGAIN