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-   -   The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2 (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33663003)

Chris 14-04-2010 03:03
The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Welcome to the official Cable Forum General Election Thread, week 2. This is the place to discuss any and all political stories during this week of the campaign. There is an opinion poll - please use it to indicate your voting intentions. There will be many more parties standing for election than we have room for, so please make use of the 'other' or 'none of the above' options if you need to.

This thread will remain open for one week. After that it will be replaced with a new thread with a new poll. This will allow us to see how voting intentions change and crystallize as polling day approaches. The final thread in this series will open on the day of the election with an exit poll so we can see which party wins the seat for Cable Forum Central.

Please do not start any other political threads during the election campaign. They will be closed.

This is a continuation of the Week 1 thread, which is now closed, but which you can still see here.

Over 100 people voted in last weeks poll - here is a summary of last weeks poll:

Labour 17 Votes 16.50%
Conservative 37 Votes 35.92%
Liberal Democrat 19 Votes 18.45%
United Kingdom Independence Party 4 Votes 3.88%
British National Party 11 Votes 10.68%
Plaid Cymru the Party of Wales 2 Votes 1.94%
GB-wide, any other party 2 Votes 1.94%
I choose not to vote 3 Votes 2.91%
I cannot vote 1 Votes 0.97%
Undecided 7 Votes 6.80%

frogstamper 14-04-2010 04:51
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35000833)
Good to know 32% of the population are idiots and 22% are either welfare whores, easily confused or ideologically diametrically opposed to me. Hung parliament would likely achieve nothing.
So basically its "vote like me or your a moron or a scrounger"...and you talk about Labour being authoritarian?
Yet another typical visceral post by a Tory voter who's first instinct is to denigrate and attack, I wonder why the polls are not showing the Tory party steaming ahead as Labour did in 97?
Could it be that a lot of people believe that Cameron is a different kind of Tory to past incarnations?...I'd say yes most fair minded people would agree that was true, the problem comes when they ask "has the party itself really changed"?
In my opinion thats whats stopping them charging ahead, fear of the old nasty party...a perfect example of how you expressed yourself above.
If you are this bitter and angry now methinks you'll be psychotically apoplectic on the morning of the 7th.

Jimmy-J 14-04-2010 06:47
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Why work when I can get £42,000 in benefits a year AND drive a Mercedes?

She added: 'I don't feel bad about being subsidised by people who are working. I'm just working with the system that's there.
'If the government wants to give me money, I'm happy to take it. We get what we're entitled to. I don't put in anything because I don't pay taxes, but if I could work I would.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0l2g5j5Xz

If a family are legally entitled to this amount of benefits, then why shouldn't they claim it?

It's no use taking it out on the families, it's the government who allow this to happen. So which of the parties are promising to change the benefits system and actually stand by it if they manage to get in?

I was told that in order to get the things in life I wanted, I'd have to work hard and save my money, etc etc... But now it's all gone topsy-turvy! It seems the harder you work the more you lose out. It doesn't seem to make sense to go out and work these days.

This family live in rented accommodation, so if anything goes wrong, such as their boiler breaks down, or the guttering get's blocked etc, then they just pick up the phone and get it all repaired or replaced for free. They could also be in line for all new double glazed windows, doors, fencing, drives, roofing, kitchen, bathroom and a brand new combi boiler, radiators in every room with a nice new real flame effect fire with fireplace/surround.

I live in a 3 bedroom council house which will be getting the above makeover between now and the next 2 to 3 years.

Ignitionnet 14-04-2010 09:31
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 35000902)
So basically its "vote like me or your a moron or a scrounger"...and you talk about Labour being authoritarian?
Yet another typical visceral post by a Tory voter who's first instinct is to denigrate and attack, I wonder why the polls are not showing the Tory party steaming ahead as Labour did in 97?
Could it be that a lot of people believe that Cameron is a different kind of Tory to past incarnations?...I'd say yes most fair minded people would agree that was true, the problem comes when they ask "has the party itself really changed"?
In my opinion thats whats stopping them charging ahead, fear of the old nasty party...a perfect example of how you expressed yourself above.
If you are this bitter and angry now methinks you'll be psychotically apoplectic on the morning of the 7th.
Minor issues with your statement.

1) I'm not a Tory voter, the only time I have voted Conservative in anything was for Boris Johnson in the last mayoral election.
2) I stand by my comment that wanting a hung parliament is idiotic. Based on previous evidence they accomplish nothing.
3) I point you to a part of my post you quoted 'or ideologically diametrically opposed to me' - plenty of intelligent, productive people who simply disagree with me in this regard. To believe Labour's baseless attacks or their promises requires either a willingness to let things slide or a lack of intellect.

Other than that from where I am the nasty party based on campaigning is the Labour party with their offensive cancer mailing, cynical mud throwing, pretty transparent bribery and inability to use their record of the last 13 years to any depth to justify their own re-election. Their record is simply so poor in most regards that this is all they can do. I would say voting for that requires either being gullible enough to buy their rhetoric, preferring their 'State knows best' way of doing things or being, like yourself, left leaning and not wanting the alternatives. Hope you are happy to lean some more to the left if you plan on voting for them though looking at their manifesto :erm:

Incidentally that you automatically assumed I was a Tory voter speaks more for your own prejudices than mine. I have a similar view of David Cameron to Barack Obama, he's a lightweight. That they haven't buried Labour in the polls yet suggests either serious issues on the Conservative side or serious issues with the electorate because there really isn't that much for Labour to point to that justifies the polls being as close as they are.

punky 14-04-2010 10:34
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Probably the Lib Dem going a bit crazy with the yellow lights but Sarah Teather is looking horribly jaundiced.

Flyboy 14-04-2010 13:29
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35000835)
I can't make sense of the Polls at all. How are the Tories not steaming ahead in the manor New Labour did in '97? The polls have tightened considerably over the last year but there they never reached massive majority numbered and not, despite 13 years of the current government, they are quite close!

My first impression was that the numbers for the Tories would be quite higher with Tory voters less likely to admit it and being of a demographic which is harder to poll. Then I thought that's rubbish! For a start I think people would be more embarrassed to say they would vote Labour than Tory, and their supports are probably also contain demographics which are harder to poll. If anything the Labour support would be underestimated.

So what gives?! How come the Tories have been unable to reverse the decline in their poll support despite, what I thought was, a strong first week of campaigning?
A poll by ICM yesterday showed only a three point lead.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

It seems some are not happy with the Tories' education plans.

50 heads attack Conservative education plans

Quote:
A group of 51 headteachers, including prominent academy leaders, today attacked the Tories' plans to give parents the freedom to set up schools and said they feared "across-the-board cuts" to schooling under the Conservatives.

Hugh 14-04-2010 13:46
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001003)
A poll by ICM yesterday showed only a three point lead.

It seems some are not happy with the Tories' education plans.

50 heads attack Conservative education plans
Erm, Fb, you "forgot" to mention that the Headmasters are all members of the Progressive Education Network, which is financially supported by "Ken" Follett (who is also one of their Directors), millionaire husband of "Barbara" Follett, who is currently Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Communities and Local Government.

Also on their Board of Directors are Baroness Morris of Yardley, aka "Estelle" Morris, ex-Labour Education Secretary, "Deryn" Harvey, who was Director of the Labour Government's Schools Innovation Unit 2002-2009, and "Russell" Gill, who is Manager Member Services at the Co-operative Group.

Nice unbiased selection there, with no obvious agenda......... ;)

What will be in your next post - that Unison will be monetarily and logistically supporting the Labour Party during the election? :D

Osem 14-04-2010 13:49
Brown admits banking mistakes.... at last....
 
Well Brown finally admits he got it wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8618974.stm

Quote:
Gordon Brown has admitted he made a mistake in not introducing tougher bank regulation when he was chancellor.
How nice of him after all those years gloating about how prudent he'd been followed by all that denial when the wheels came off just after he'd predicted the start of a Golden era for the City of London and started doling out gongs to the likes of Fred the Shred.... :rolleyes:

I reckon somewhere within the bowels of New Labour's grubby spin machine someone's decided that a large section of the electorate know Brown got it badly wrong and many will vote accordingly. These people are lost and 'admitting' his mistake won't affect their decision but a display of 'sincerity' at this time may just convince a few waverers to vote for him on the basis that he's at last accepted some responsibility for the catastrophe he allowed to unfold right under his nose.

Some of these people will no doubt feel better about the claims that no savers lost deposits as a result of the firm (and necessary) action taken to save the banks. Well that may be true but what is equally true is that, due to the lack of oversight of the banks that were funding Brown's manic spending spree, we're all going to pay a very heavy price. Our currency is in the doldrums, taxpayers will pay more for less, jobs will be lost, services will be cut and those who rely on their savings for some additional income to supplement their meagre pensions will continue to see that reduced to a trickle and their hard earned capital eroded.

Cast your minds back to all those promises to get tough on the bankers and force our newly 'nationalised' institutions banks to lend to business and stimulate the recovery. Well what's actually happened?? More, cynical rhetoric designed solely to mislead the people for as long as possible. Does anyone really believe anything these people say or do now?

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 35001043)
Erm, Fb, you "forgot" to mention that the Headmasters are all members of the Progressive Education Network, which is financially supported by "Ken" Follett (who is also one of their Directors), millionaire husband of "Barbara" Follett, who is currently Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Communities and Local Government.

Also on their Board of Directors are Baroness Morris of Yardley, aka Estelle Morris, ex-Labour Education Secretary, Deryn Harvey, who was Director of the Labour Government's Schools Innovation Unit 2002-2009, Russell Gill, who is Manager Member Services at the Co-operative Group.

Nice unbiased selection there, with no obvious agenda.........

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but....... :rolleyes: Some people really don't like answering questions with answers do they.... :D

Flyboy 14-04-2010 13:50
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Would that be the same deregulation supported by the Tories?

Hugh 14-04-2010 13:56
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001048)
Would that be the same deregulation supported by the Tories?
Were they the Government of the day, and thus had responsibility?;)

"Ed" Balls comments in the FT today are priceless
Quote:
“We should, in retrospect, have been tougher on some of the investment banks who didn’t really know the risks they were running.”
At the same time, however, he said that Labour had been under huge pressure from the media, the City and the Tories to retain a light-touch regulatory regime
Yes, because the Labour Government always listen to and do what the Conservatives say.:dozey:

Flyboy 14-04-2010 13:59
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Do we know what the regulations were before nineteen ninety-seven? ;)

Xaccers 14-04-2010 14:03
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001056)
Do we know what the regulations were before nineteen ninety-seven? ;)
Who was in a position to change the regulations since 97?

Hugh 14-04-2010 14:05
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35001058)
Who was in a position to change the regulations since 97?
Yeah but no but yeah but no but (repeat ad infinitum....):D

Flyboy 14-04-2010 14:05
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
It can't be had both ways. The Tories either criticise plans made whilst they were in power and admit they were wrong, or cut the hypocrisy.

Chris 14-04-2010 14:06
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001056)
Do we know what the regulations were before nineteen ninety-seven? ;)
Seriously, is that what you're reduced to?

Osem 14-04-2010 14:11
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35001062)
Seriously, is that what you're reduced to?
Well in the absence of anything much to boast about since 1997, apparently it is..... :D

Damien 14-04-2010 14:12
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Surely it's a valid point that because the Tories supported deregulation that under their governance the same thing would have happened?

Xaccers 14-04-2010 14:13
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001060)
It can't be had both ways. The Tories either criticise plans made whilst they were in power and admit they were wrong, or cut the hypocrisy.
I seem to recall the regulations were changed after 97, when the BoE was given the task of controlling inflation and interest rates.

Hugh 14-04-2010 14:14
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001060)
It can't be had both ways. The Tories either criticise plans made whilst they were in power and admit they were wrong, or cut the hypocrisy.
That statement may come back to haunt you.....;)

btw, I think de-regulation went to far, and said so at the time.

Anyhoo, back to the sock puppet Headmasters......:D

Loved the line on their site (their "About" page)
Quote:
a 'report card' on recent reform commissioned for the launch event argues there is much to celebrate in the reforms and their intent since 1997 but that the next phase of continuing change needs to be driven by practitioners, government and local communities in partnership.
Could they really get their heads much further up the Labour Party's derriere?

Xaccers 14-04-2010 14:15
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001069)
Surely it's a valid point that because the Tories supported deregulation that under their governance the same thing would have happened?
The devil is in the detail.
Two parties can support deregulation, but they can have different ideas of what that actually means.

Osem 14-04-2010 14:15
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001069)
Surely it's a valid point that because the Tories supported deregulation that under their governance the same thing would have happened?
Well that'd depend on how they implemented, monitored and refined that policy wouldn't it?

Derek 14-04-2010 14:16
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001066)
Well in the absence of anything much to shout about since 1997, apparently it is..... :D
It's a baby step on from endlessly bringing up Thatcher and Ashcroft I suppose.

Anyway it's nice to see some prospective MP's think the police have nothing better to do than investigate some urine extraction on the internet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...eo-attack.html

Quote:
A Conservative parliamentary candidate who was the target of a four-letter outburst on a YouTube video featuring an actor playing Adolf Hitler has called in the police.

Osem 14-04-2010 14:19
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek S (Post 35001075)
It's a baby step on from endlessly bringing up Thatcher and Ashcroft I suppose. Anyway it's nice to see some prospective MP's think the police have nothing better to do than investigate some urine extraction on the internet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...eo-attack.html
Yes I suppose... :) Still after 13 years you'd have thought there'd be something positive in their track record to campaign about. Maybe we're just not hearing it or maybe they have better things to do....... :D

Hugh 14-04-2010 14:25
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001079)
Yes I suppose... :) Still after 13 years you'd have thought there'd be something positive in their track record to campaign about. Maybe we're just not hearing it.... :D
But........

Things can only get better!

Derek 14-04-2010 14:30
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001079)
Still after 13 years you'd have thought there'd be something positive in their track record to campaign about. Maybe we're just not hearing it or maybe they have better things to do....... :D
They have. They've abolished boom and bust, sorted out the sleaze in government, given large increases to the military every year etc. etc. :erm:

Damien 14-04-2010 14:30
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001079)
Yes I suppose... :) Still after 13 years you'd have thought there'd be something positive in their track record to campaign about. Maybe we're just not hearing it.... :D
Would be quite interested to see a list of achievements. I suppose successfully seeing though the NI peace process, increased rights for gay couples, modern apprenticeships seem to have been a success, NHS Direct and walk-in centres, The EMA allowance, Were the Child Tax Credits/Trust fund their idea? if so that, I still remember when Museums were not free, Minimum wage?, also I not sure if they did the free bus passes/tv licences for the elderly I think they did.

I wouldn't vote for them for the reasons mentioned before (I.E Massive erosion of Civil Liberties).

Hugh 14-04-2010 14:31
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
I agree, Damien, it would - I wonder why they haven't?

Osem 14-04-2010 14:32
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek S (Post 35001089)
They have. They've abolished boom and bust, sorted out the sleaze in government, given large increases to the military every year etc. etc. :erm:
Oh that's right - I forgot about all that.... :D

To be fair, they've also sorted out crime, immigration, child poverty and done soooooo much for national security - must give them credit for that..... :rolleyes:

Flyboy 14-04-2010 14:37
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001090)
Would be quite interested to see a list of achievements. I suppose successfully seeing though the NI peace process, increased rights for gay couples, modern apprenticeships seem to have been a success, NHS Direct and walk-in centres, The EMA allowance, Were the Child Tax Credits/Trust fund their idea? if so that, I still remember when Museums were not free, Minimum wage?, also I not sure if they did the free bus passes/tv licences for the elderly I think they did.

I wouldn't vote for them for the reasons mentioned before (I.E Massive erosion of Civil Liberties).
How about:

* Introduced a smoking ban in all enclosed spaces including pubs, restaurants and offices.

* Abolition of section 28.

* Relative Peace in Northern Ireland.

* A vastly improved NHS service

* Lowest UK murder rate for over 20 years

* Civil partnerships

* 14,000 more police officers on the streets

* Free bus travel nationwide for the over 60s

* Free NHS prescriptions and eye sight tests for the over 60s

* Scrapped the majority of hereditary peers in the House of Lords

* Debt of poor countries written off

* Matrons are back !

* Cancer death rates down by 14 per cent

* Devolved power to Scotland

* Paid paternity leave for dads for the first time

* Abolition of anti-discrimination legisilation.

* Ban on fox hunting and hunting with hounds of deer, hares, mink and organised hare coursing.

* 24 hour drinking laws, sale of alcohol on a Sunday

* Tax-free Winter Fuel Payment to every pensioner household.

* Free central heating for everyone receiving Pension Credit. Environmental legisilation.

* 36,000 more teachers than in 1997, 172,000 more classroom assistants

* Restored London Government

* Introduced statutory rights for union recognition. Part-time workers have the same rights as full-time workers thanks to Labour.

* Free TV licenses for over 75s

* Fur farming banned

* Free breast cancer screening for those 50-70

* The cleanest beaches, rivers, drinking water and air than at any time since before the industrial revolution.

* Paid maternity leave increased to 52 weeks

* Number of apprenticeships doubled

* 1,100 new schools built or old schools rebuilt good

* Record numbers in further and higher education

* Fewer working days lost due to industrial action than under the previous government

* Equal rights for agency workers (pay, holidays etc)

* Everyone over 60 free access to local swimming pools

* Devolved power to Wales

* There are more police on our streets than ever before, up 14,000 since 1997

* Gay adoption

* Child Benefit increased by 26% since 1997

* Everyone now has the legal right to four week’s paid holiday.

* The largest hospital building programme since the NHS began: 149 hospitals built or being built, the Tories built one.

* Police pay up 27% in real terms

* Changes to Vehicle Excise Duty - sales of low-emission cars now outstrips gas guzzlers

* Tax free personal allowances for pensioners now at least £9,030.

* There are 85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors in the NHS than in 1997.

* Nurses pay increased by 58%

* Record number of NHS operations

* Free bus travel for disabled people.

* The minimum wage.

Now I am sure there are many self-interested people who will not agree that all these things have been a success, but not a bad list really.

Osem 14-04-2010 14:41
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 35001091)
I agree, Damien, it would - I wonder why they haven't?
Well I'd guess that condensing all that success into a manageable form is taking longer than expected... :D

Hugh 14-04-2010 14:42
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Nice to see the Labour Party campaigning on policies, not personalities - Telegraph
Quote:
He also accused Mr Cameron of "looking down his toffee nose" at the country's regions, warning that Tory plans to close down regional development agencies would cost jobs and investment.
Am I alone in thinking "that's bloody rich" coming from Baron Mandelson, of Foy in the County of Herefordshire and of Hartlepool in the County of Durham?

---------- Post added at 13:42 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
How about:

...snippety snip snip.

Now I am sure there are many self-interested people who will not agree that all these things have been a success, but not a bad list really.
Thanks for that, but I was wondering why the Labour Party weren't campaigning on those "successes"?

Flyboy 14-04-2010 14:44
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
I have no idea, but then the Tories are not exactly setting the world alight with reasons to vote for them. They are more interested in telling everyone why the shouldn't vote for anyone else, which doesn't give many a reason to choose Conservative.

Damien 14-04-2010 14:45
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
How about:

* Introduced a smoking ban in all enclosed spaces including pubs, restaurants and offices.

* Abolition of section 28.

* Relative Peace in Northern Ireland.

* Civil partnerships

* Free bus travel nationwide for the over 60s

* Free NHS prescriptions and eye sight tests for the over 60s

* Devolved power to Scotland

* Paid paternity leave for dads for the first time

* Tax-free Winter Fuel Payment to every pensioner household.

* Free central heating for everyone receiving Pension Credit.

* Restored London Government

* Free TV licenses for over 75s

* Free breast cancer screening for those 50-70

* The cleanest beaches, rivers, drinking water and air than at any time since before the industrial revolution.

* Paid maternity leave increased to 52 weeks

* Number of apprenticeships doubled

* 1,100 new schools built or old schools rebuilt good

* Everyone over 60 free access to local swimming pools

* Devolved power to Wales

* Child Benefit increased by 26% since 1997

* Everyone now has the legal right to four week’s paid holiday.

* The largest hospital building programme since the NHS began: 149 hospitals built or being built, the Tories built one.

* Tax free personal allowances for pensioners now at least £9,030.

* There are 85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors in the NHS than in 1997.

* Nurses pay increased by 58%

* Free bus travel for disabled people.

* The minimum wage.
I have reduced the list. Taking out ones which are controversial, open to interpretation (i.e more police on streets) or ones that could be considered part of a international trend (i.e cancer survival rates).

danielf 14-04-2010 14:45
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
How about:

<snip>

Now I am sure there are many self-interested people who will not agree that all these things have been a success, but not a bad list really.
Shame about the record on Civil Liberties though...

Osem 14-04-2010 14:47
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35001107)
Shame about the record on Civil Liberties though...
Not to mention illegal wars and the economy......

As popular as it may be to some, it's really not that difficult to chuck money at issues is it?? The difficult bit is ensuring that what money is spent a) is spent wisely, b) represents value for money, c) has the desired effect, and d) has been 'earned' NOT just borrowed or printed so that future generations pick up the tab.

danielf 14-04-2010 14:50
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001108)
Not to mention illegal wars and the economy......
TBH, I doubt the Tories would have fared much better on those ones.

Flyboy 14-04-2010 14:52
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35001107)
Shame about the record on Civil Liberties though...
Oh well, can't have everything. :D

Osem 14-04-2010 14:52
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35001112)
TBH, I doubt the Tories would have fared much better on those ones.
They couldn't have done any worse... ;)

Flyboy 14-04-2010 14:54
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Well just choosing one; The National Minimum Wage.

Hugh 14-04-2010 14:56
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
How about:

* Introduced a smoking ban in all enclosed spaces including pubs, restaurants and offices. - excellent

* Abolition of section 28. - excellent

* Relative Peace in Northern Ireland (strange, you don't mention all the work the Tory Party did previous to 1997)

* A vastly improved NHS service - debatable; better funded yes, "vastly improved" not so sure

* Lowest UK murder rate for over 20 years - excellent; back to the lows of when the Tories were in power - well done, Labour....

* Civil partnerships -excellent

* 14,000 more police officers on the streets - 14k more officers, on the streets, perhaps not...

* Free bus travel nationwide for the over 60s - which local councils can't afford

* Free NHS prescriptions and eye sight tests for the over 60s -excellent

* Scrapped the majority of hereditary peers in the House of Lords - and still appointing new Lords (mostly Labour, funnily enough).

* Debt of poor countries written off - good

* Matrons are back ! - woo hoo!

* Cancer death rates down by 14 per cent - but still the lowest survivability rate in Europe

* Devolved power to Scotland - Yes, that's worked so well, hasn't it?

* Paid paternity leave for dads for the first time - good

* Abolition of anti-discrimination legisilation. - you sure you mean abolition?

* Ban on fox hunting and hunting with hounds of deer, hares, mink and organised hare coursing. - excellent use of commons time.

* 24 hour drinking laws, sale of alcohol on a Sunday - erm.......

* Tax-free Winter Fuel Payment to every pensioner household. - even those who don't need it, otherwise good.

* Free central heating for everyone receiving Pension Credit. - good

Environmental legisilation. - could you be more specific?

* 36,000 more teachers than in 1997, 172,000 more classroom assistants

* Restored London Government (then lost it :D)

* Introduced statutory rights for union recognition. Part-time workers have the same rights as full-time workers thanks to Labour. - woo, and indeed, hoo.

* Free TV licenses for over 75s - meh

* Fur farming banned

* Free breast cancer screening for those 50-70

* The cleanest beaches, rivers, drinking water and air than at any time since before the industrial revolution.

* Paid maternity leave increased to 52 weeks

* Number of apprenticeships doubled

* 1,100 new schools built or old schools rebuilt good - cough, cough, PFI

* Record numbers in further and higher education - funding just cut

* Fewer working days lost due to industrial action than under the previous government - Yes, funny that.

* Equal rights for agency workers (pay, holidays etc)

* Everyone over 60 free access to local swimming pools

* Devolved power to Wales

* There are more police on our streets than ever before, up 14,000 since 1997 - I am sure you have already mentioned that

* Gay adoption - good

* Child Benefit increased by 26% since 1997 - how much has inflation risen since 1997?

* Everyone now has the legal right to four week’s paid holiday. - excellent

* The largest hospital building programme since the NHS began: 149 hospitals built or being built, the Tories built one. - cough, cough, PFI

* Police pay up 27% in real terms

* Changes to Vehicle Excise Duty - sales of low-emission cars now outstrips gas guzzlers

* Tax free personal allowances for pensioners now at least £9,030.

* There are 85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors in the NHS than in 1997.

* Nurses pay increased by 58%

* Record number of NHS operations

* Free bus travel for disabled people.

* The minimum wage.

Now I am sure there are many self-interested people who will not agree that all these things have been a success, but not a bad list really.
So anyone who disagrees with you is "self-interested"? :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001105)
I have no idea, but then the Tories are not exactly setting the world alight with reasons to vote for them. They are more interested in telling everyone why the shouldn't vote for anyone else, which doesn't give many a reason to choose Conservative.
You really are shameless, aren't you?:D

Damien 14-04-2010 14:56
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001114)
They couldn't have done any worse... ;)
Hardly a convincing argument ;)

Osem 14-04-2010 14:59
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001123)
Hardly a convincing argument ;)
Wasn't supposed to be... just an observation.... ;)

It's harder to judge the parties who haven't been in power than the one which has...

Damien 14-04-2010 15:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Here is a guide to the Party's standing on Civil Liberties

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...ur&col3=libdem

Hugh 14-04-2010 15:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Re increases in services - could it possibly, just possibly, be connected to the fact that in 1997 total Government budget was £318 billion, and in 2010 it was £661 billion (Net Public Debt was £348 billion in 97, and forecast to be £777 billion in 2010).

Flyboy 14-04-2010 15:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001118)
Well just choosing one; The National Minimum Wage.
Another? Gay Adoption.

Hugh 14-04-2010 15:04
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
How about ID Cards, DNA retention, 42 days detention without charge, cutting Forces helicopter funding, sending people into battle without proper equipment?

Or don't those count?

Flyboy 14-04-2010 15:05
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001114)
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf
TBH, I doubt the Tories would have fared much better on those ones.
They couldn't have done any worse... ;)
How about more? Nurses pay increased by 58%

Hugh 14-04-2010 15:05
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Above inflation?

Flyboy 14-04-2010 15:07
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Inflation between nineteen ninety-seven and two thousand and nine was thirty-five per cent.

peanut 14-04-2010 15:09
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Even before the poll on this thread it was obvious there are more Tory supporter on here than Labour. I'm not really that politically minded and feel no matter who I vote for I know I'll regret it. If the Tories get in again I know if we fast forward a few years we'll be back to moaning about them again.

Maggy 14-04-2010 15:10
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
I find it really depressing how close the polls are at present.A 3 or 5 point lead really isn't good enough and I fear we are heading for a hung parliament.

Mind does it mean that more people are just not sure who to vote for or are they just mistrustful of ALL politicians?Has the furore over expenses truly shaken the electorate's faith in the honesty and integrity of any future government?

It certainly has for me. I feel like I'm caught between several snake oil salesmen at present.:(

Hugh 14-04-2010 15:10
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001136)
Inflation between nineteen ninety-seven and two thousand and nine was thirty-five per cent.
Nurses still don't seem happy with Agenda for Change, though...

peanut 14-04-2010 15:11
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 35001141)
Nurses still don't seem happy with Agenda for Change, though...
When are nurses ever happy?

Osem 14-04-2010 15:21
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 35001142)
When are nurses ever happy?
I went out with one once - she was pretty happy.... :D

Back to reality however, we can (and will) argue about the past but the fact is that under New Labour the state of our economy has become so bad that we're all facing some really tough times and many of the promises made about future spending, services etc.. etc... are not going to be kept. There's only one party to blame for that!

Will21st 14-04-2010 15:42
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001148)
I went out with one once - she was pretty happy.... :D

Back to reality however, we can (and will) argue about the past but the fact is that under New Labour the state of our economy has become so bad that we're all facing some really tough times and many of the promises made about future spending, services etc.. etc... are not going to be kept. There's only one party to blame for that!
at some point it's time for a new leadership,which is long overdue for the UK.
New Labour are way too meddling and authoritarian-left for my liking.They have blown up the gov to an extent that is unsustainable.
Just guess who is the biggest advertiser in the UK? that's right,the government!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...dvertiser.html

How does Labour spend your tax? Wisely?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport..._evidence.html

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001113)
Oh well, can't have everything. :D
you find a loss of civil liberties funny.... interesting. :td:

Jimmy-J 14-04-2010 16:03
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
I agree with Maggy, this is how I've felt about politicians & politics for years, and that's why my vote has gone to none of the above, since I last voted back in 97'

None of them imo deserves a single vote.

Osem 14-04-2010 16:36
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will21st (Post 35001163)
at some point it's time for a new leadership,which is long overdue for the UK.
New Labour are way too meddling and authoritarian-left for my liking.They have blown up the gov to an extent that is unsustainable.
Just guess who is the biggest advertiser in the UK? that's right,the government!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...dvertiser.html

How does Labour spend your tax? Wisely?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport..._evidence.html

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------



you find a loss of civil liberties funny.... interesting. :td:
:tu:

Yes it's ironic that is some respects New Labour have 'out Toried' the Tories they despise so much. It'd be hard for the rose tinted brigade to bear if only they could see it.....

Well, let's face it, there not much else for New Labour supporters to laugh about is there?... :D

Sirius 14-04-2010 16:39
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35001062)
Seriously, is that what you're reduced to?
It does look like it :LOL:

On a serious note having now had the chance to hear and read the 3 party's manifestos i will not be changing my mind as to my vote.

Labour have not said anything that will change my mind . There treatment of the armed forces and the extra NI costs they intend to heap on me are just a couple of the reasons why, But the biggest reason is Brown, I find him to be untrustworthy and to have no real idea of what to do other than make the same mistakes all over again.

The liberals still have not convinced me they can be trusted to defend this country's rights and i don't like there obvious sucking up to Labour. Again they have no real plans and Clegg gives me the impression he will be happy to be Browns right hand man in a coalition

As for the other partys well i have no intention of voting for racists and Ukip dont know if there coming or going.

Osem 14-04-2010 17:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Here's an alternative view on what's been going on in the NHS:

http://www.healthdirect.co.uk

Spectato 14-04-2010 17:25
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Product 13 (Post 35001180)
None of them imo deserves a single vote.
Couldn't agree more, but it's definitely time for Labour to go.
They've been in far too long and got too comfortable and complacent, like they all do.
It's worth voting just to be rid of Mandy, Prescott and Brown.

Can't vote for Cameron because he's Tony Bleugh reincarnated.
Lib-Dem is the only option as I see it, and that's really the closest thing to not voting anyway! :D

Will21st 14-04-2010 17:55
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectato (Post 35001220)
Couldn't agree more, but it's definitely time for Labour to go.
They've been in far too long and got too comfortable and complacent, like they all do.
It's worth voting just to be rid of Mandy, Prescott and Brown.

Can't vote for Cameron because he's Tony Bleugh reincarnated.
Lib-Dem is the only option as I see it, and that's really the closest thing to not voting anyway! :D
:Yes:

Hugh 14-04-2010 17:56
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
At this rate, Labour might have to be the minority party in a Lab-LibDem coalition.....:D

Damien 14-04-2010 18:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35001200)
Labour have not said anything that will change my mind . There treatment of the armed forces and the extra NI costs they intend to heap on me are just a couple of the reasons....The liberals still have not convinced me they can be trusted to defend this country's rights and i don't like there obvious sucking up to Labour. Again they have no real plans and Clegg gives me the impression he will be happy to be Browns right hand man in a coalition
Lib Dems have said they will increase Army pay to bring it in-line with other public sector workers.

Sirius 14-04-2010 18:13
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001241)
Lib Dems have said they will increase Army pay to bring it in-line with other public sector workers.
Thats not my problem,My problem is the tree hugging nature of them. Role over and let anyone walk all over us is what i see in them. They will sign us up to any stupid idea Europe has, They WILL sign up to the Euro the first chance they get that you can bet. No i still think they need a good few years more before i can consider them.

Derek 14-04-2010 18:49
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
* 1,100 new schools built or old schools rebuilt good
And how are these being paid for? By cold, hard cash or by some dodgy PFI scheme where the money is spread out over 20-30 years and off the books to try and make the national deficit even less scary than it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
* 24 hour drinking laws, sale of alcohol on a Sunday
Yep the liberalisation of drinking laws has been a great success, you only need to go down the local high street each Friday or Saturday night to see how the British have taken to the continental drinking culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
* Lowest UK murder rate for over 20 years

* 14,000 more police officers on the streets

* There are more police on our streets than ever before, up 14,000 since 1997

* Police pay up 27% in real terms
Hmmmm, more police but less than ever actually doing 'policework' thanks to reams and reams of paperwork foisted on them. Murder might be down but violent crime is up.

If Labour are such friends of the Police and law and order try checking out some of the Police blogs to see how much support they are giving them in their quest for re-election.

Murders may well be down thanks to improvements in medical care, wounds that would have been fatal 5-10 years ago are now mostly survivable, which leads me on to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001099)
* A vastly improved NHS service

* The largest hospital building programme since the NHS began: 149 hospitals built or being built, the Tories built one.

* Nurses pay increased by 58%
And a huge increase in the number of managers and the cost of them to the service. Plus as in schools most of these are being paid for by costly PFI schemes.

alferret 14-04-2010 19:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Are we not on "WEEK 2" now?

Peter_ 14-04-2010 19:31
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35001277)
Are we not on "WEEK 2" now?
A week is a long time in politics.:D

A quote from Harold Wilson.

Jimmy-J 14-04-2010 19:37
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35001277)
Are we not on "WEEK 2" now?
See post #394 and the last bit of post #400. :)

peanut 14-04-2010 19:40
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
It will be interesting to see if there are any changes to the polls after the TV debate tomorrow.

Peter_ 14-04-2010 19:41
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
This Party is a moral crusade or it is nothing
Another quote from Harold Wilson which all the Tories will love.:D

alferret 14-04-2010 19:42
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Product 13 (Post 35001294)
See post #394 and the last bit of post #400. :)
Ta muchly :)

peanut 14-04-2010 19:44
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moldova (Post 35001298)
Another quote from Harold Wilson which all the Tories will love.:D
I think the best one is 'Whoever wins, we lose". Or was that from a film :confused: :D

Chris 14-04-2010 19:48
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35001277)
Are we not on "WEEK 2" now?
Just to re-state it (as you're probably not the only one wondering), the election campaign isn't four precise weeks in length, it's a calendar month long, so that's four weeks and a couple of days. We either made the week 1 thread or the week 4 thread run for those extra couple of days, or else have a week 5 thread that only lasted 2 days. We went for the first option.

This thread will remain open until first thing tomorrow morning. It will then be closed and a link provided to the week 2 thread, which will have a fresh opinion poll for everyone to vote on.

Hugh 14-04-2010 20:15
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
"The document discloses that his military planning allows for some of the WMD to be ready within 45 minutes of an order to use them."
If we are doing quotes......

Tezcatlipoca 14-04-2010 21:10
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Lib Dem manifesto at a glance:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...to-at-a-glance


Opinion piece on the Lib Dem's economic policies:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...conomic-policy




Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35001107)
Shame about the record on Civil Liberties though...
George Orwell would be rickrolling in his grave.

I'll give them the Human Rights Act, though. That was (& still is) A Good Thing... just a shame they then developed a habit of violating it with their anti-terror laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001108)
Not to mention illegal wars and the economy......
Yup... :mad:

Going back to the list of stuff Flyboy posted...

There are two I consider to have been rather half-arsed measures:

* Scrapped the majority of hereditary peers in the House of Lords

* Devolved power to Scotland


Re. the Lords - Why, after 13 years in power, have they still not gone further & removed the remaining Peers & fully reformed the upper house?

[although as an aside, I do actually have respect for the Lords, despite previously hating it for being unelected... The Lords have shown more than once that they can be a good force against the Government's crap with some laws]

Re. Devolution - THE WEST LOTHIAN QUESTION! How can it be fair that Westminster MPs who represent Constituencies in Scotland can vote on laws which have absolutely ZERO affect on their own Constituency? e.g. Health & Education are both "devolved matters".

When New Labour pushed through the introduction of Foundation Hospitals, it did not affect Scotland, yet MPs from Scotland were able to vote on it.

When New Labour pushed through the introduction of Top-Up Fees (against their own manifesto), it did not affect Scotland, yet MPs from Scotland were able to vote on it (& IIRC Labour MPs from Scotland were rather crucial in making up the numbers for the vote to pass).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001128)
Here is a guide to the Party's standing on Civil Liberties

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...ur&col3=libdem
Lib Dems FTW on Civil Liberties (& also Science, & IMO the Economy).

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 35001133)
How about ID Cards, DNA retention, 42 days detention without charge, cutting Forces helicopter funding, sending people into battle without proper equipment?

Or don't those count?
Didn't the defence chiefs specifically ask for fewer helicopters & inferior equipment? Oh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35001200)
The liberals still have not convinced me they can be trusted to defend this country's rights and i don't like there obvious sucking up to Labour. Again they have no real plans and Clegg gives me the impression he will be happy to be Browns right hand man in a coalition
In what way do you think they cannot be trusted to defend the UK's rights?

What "obvious sucking up to Labour"? :confused:

Is this sucking up to Labour?

"Nick Clegg goes to war with Labour over civil liberties"

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guardian
Nick Clegg goes to war with Labour over civil liberties

Liberal Democrat manifesto launch accompanied by stinging attack on Labour - making post-election partnership more remote



Nick Clegg will launch the Liberal Democrat manifesto with a stinging critique of Labour's record on civil liberties and human rights – criticism that makes the prospect of a post-election partnership between the two parties more remote.

Speaking to the Guardian, the Lib Dem leader said he was shocked by the lack of reference to civil liberties in the Labour manifesto, and highlighted his own plans to scrap the next generation of biometric passports, and its communication base.

He said: "It's a measure of the authoritarian streak of the Labour party that it didn't refer once to liberty in its own manifesto.

"Civil liberties and individual freedoms are part of the DNA of the Lib Dems. It makes a compete mockery of the claim by Gordon Brown that he can speak for progressive voters in other parties when his own party has turned its back on one of the cornerstones of progressive politics.

"The division between the Lib Dems and Labour on civil liberties is as wide today as it was at the height of Blair's authoritarian populism."

(snip)
I also posted a reply to you earlier mentioning a few major issues in which the Lib Dems strongly opposed Labour (some of which they also opposed the Tories on too, e.g. Iraq & the Digital Economy Bill). In case you missed it, here's a link:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post34998633


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35001248)
Thats not my problem,My problem is the tree hugging nature of them. Role over and let anyone walk all over us is what i see in them. They will sign us up to any stupid idea Europe has, They WILL sign up to the Euro the first chance they get that you can bet. No i still think they need a good few years more before i can consider them.
What "tree hugging nature"? Why do you think they will "roll over and let anyone walk all over us"?

Regarding the Euro... As I said earlier in the thread, they aren't as committed to Euro entry as they used to be, as they finally realised that it is not currently economically or politically viable. They do still believe that entry into the Euro is in the UK's long-term interests, but only after a referendum.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

The Salary Calculator: plug in your salary & other things, & get an estimate of how you would be under a Labour / Lib Dem / Tory / UKIP Government.

http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/election.php

For me, it goes (from highest take-home pay to lowest take-home pay):

UKIP > Lib Dem > Tory > Green > Labour

Xaccers 14-04-2010 21:43
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Aren't most of the items on the list provided by flyboy actually european directives?
Smoking ban etc.

Flyboy 14-04-2010 21:43
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Did anyone see the LibDem broadcast this evening? I hope they picked up all the paper. ;)

danielf 14-04-2010 21:49
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 35001375)
Aren't most of the items on the list provided by flyboy actually european directives?
Smoking ban etc.
The smoking ban is not a European directive, but they are considering it.

Quote:
The commission is calling for an EU-wide ban on smoking in public places by 2012. Currently all EU countries have regulations of some kind designed to protect people from second-hand smoke and its harmful effects. But the rules vary widely from country to country.

The UK and Ireland have the strictest laws - a complete ban on smoking in indoor workplaces and public places, including public restaurants and bars. Bulgaria is due to follow suit in 2010. Greece, Italy, Malta, Sweden, Latvia, Finland, Slovenia, France and Holland have introduced smoke-free legislation that still allows special enclosed smoking rooms. The EU is now proposing that uniform laws be drafted for all 27 countries to regulate smoking more strictly in public areas and workplaces.
http://ec.europa.eu/news/environment/090708_en.htm

Tezcatlipoca 14-04-2010 22:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35001376)
Did anyone see the LibDem broadcast this evening? I hope they picked up all the paper. ;)
http://twitter.com/helenduffett/status/12175766601

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen Duffett, Lib Dem PPC for Romford
I was at the #LibDems Party Election Broadcast shoot. To reassure you: every bit of that paper was picked up at the end!

Osem 14-04-2010 23:06
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek S (Post 35001270)
And how are these being paid for? By cold, hard cash or by some dodgy PFI scheme where the money is spread out over 20-30 years and off the books to try and make the national deficit even less scary than it is.



Yep the liberalisation of drinking laws has been a great success, you only need to go down the local high street each Friday or Saturday night to see how the British have taken to the continental drinking culture.



Hmmmm, more police but less than ever actually doing 'policework' thanks to reams and reams of paperwork foisted on them. Murder might be down but violent crime is up.

If Labour are such friends of the Police and law and order try checking out some of the Police blogs to see how much support they are giving them in their quest for re-election.

Murders may well be down thanks to improvements in medical care, wounds that would have been fatal 5-10 years ago are now mostly survivable, which leads me on to.



And a huge increase in the number of managers and the cost of them to the service. Plus as in schools most of these are being paid for by costly PFI schemes.
Mere facts Derek, mere facts..... :rolleyes:

We all know New Labour are very 'relaxed' when it comes to minor details such as facts, truth and honesty. They and their apologists aren't good at answering questions either (they've got 'better things to do' IIRC :rolleyes:) although they just love asking them.... For a party that's been in power for 13 years, has access to all the 'books' and, if we're to believe the rose tinted brigade, has served us all very well, they don't seem to have many answers and are being remarkably coy about where the axe is going to fall....

They've definitely spent, wasted and lost UK PLC loads of money, however, and if these were the sole criteria for judging a successful government, this lot would be the best by a country mile. Discrimination's obviously become so politically incorrect within government circles that, so far as the economy is concerned, New Labour have suspended theirs in favour of Ponzi style economics and Viv Nicholson's budget control....

Anyway, I wonder if any of the New Labour apologists who've defended Brown so blindly over the years and were in total denial about what the rest of us knew he did wrong, realise how stupid they look now he's finally admitted he made serious mistakes WRT the regulation and oversight of the financial sector..... No doubt they have better things to do than face up to reality.... :D

Flyboy 14-04-2010 23:37
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D (Post 35001393)
http://twitter.com/helenduffett/status/12175766601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen Duffett, Lib Dem PPC for Romford
I was at the #LibDems Party Election Broadcast shoot. To reassure you: every bit of that paper was picked up at the end!
I can't imagine that every piece was collected. It seemed to be very windy.

nomadking 15-04-2010 00:02
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35001385)
The smoking ban is not a European directive, but they are considering it.



http://ec.europa.eu/news/environment/090708_en.htm
The clue to whether it is not currently an EU directive is that Germany does not have a ban. Only if Berlin gives the ok, will it be an EU directive. Although they usually implement a law first and then insist that everybody else follows suit.

danielf 15-04-2010 00:04
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35001490)
The clue to whether it is not currently an EU directive is that Germany does not have a ban. Only if Berlin gives the ok, will it be an EU directive. Although they usually implement a law first and then insist that everybody else follows suit.
I knew there was going to be rubbish when I saw your name next to the post. I was not disappointed...

Hiroki 15-04-2010 00:49
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Anybody had a play around with that http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ site?

I saw it on the north east news earlier and it was suggested that it may help people decide who to vote for.....anyway my results http://vfp.me/4BC645382FE73

Ignitionnet 15-04-2010 01:00
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
No real shocker for me.

http://vfp.me/4BC648D28830B

Voting based on local reasons rather than national so doesn't change anything. That I dislike paying taxes (high-ish income and I get very little return on the taxes I pay), like grammar schools (attended one), dislike current approaches to immigration (worked in Brick Lane and lived in East London so saw plenty of its' fallout) and consider the welfare state to be overly complicated and in some cases too generous and others unfairly harsh (have known plenty who've gamed it and some who suffered because they didn't) isn't a surprise.

Flyboy 15-04-2010 01:32
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
What was startling was how easy it was to spot the BNP's ludicrous policies.

Tezcatlipoca 15-04-2010 01:56
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
I dunno... the fact that they are always so ludicrous makes them rather easy to spot a mile off, not so startling really.

----------------------------


The first Election Debate with Gordon Brown, David Cameron, & Nick Clegg, takes place on Thursday night at 8:30pm on ITV1.

http://www.itv.com/electiondebate/

Be interesting... I think this will be the first time we've had something like this in the UK?

frogstamper 15-04-2010 02:12
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D (Post 35001523)
I dunno... the fact that they are always so ludicrous makes them rather easy to spot a mile off, not so startling really.

----------------------------


The first Election Debate with Gordon Brown, David Cameron, & Nick Clegg, takes place on Thursday night at 8:30pm on ITV1.

http://www.itv.com/electiondebate/

Be interesting... I think this will be the first time we've had something like this in the UK?
From a totally neutral stand point each of these guys must be worried sick about making a mistake on air, talk about pressure.

Chris 15-04-2010 11:00
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Welcome to the General Election Thread, Week 2. I have moved the last 24 hours' worth of posts from the week 1 thread in to this one to help preserve the continuity of the discussion. If you want to reply to an older post from week 1 please copy and paste it into your reply. Remember to attribute your quotes within the quote tags: [ quote=namehere] paste content [/quote].

Remember to have a vote in our new poll - let's see whether voting intentions are changing as the campaign progresses.

Ignitionnet 15-04-2010 11:17
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
If the debates have an effect will be interesting - I suspect right now most will be more entrenched in their views than they were a week ago :)

Osem 15-04-2010 11:28
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Are we really going to get a debate though? Or are we going to get little more than a series of short pre-prepared speeches from each party leader in succession? From what little I've heard about the format I don't see much chance of lively off-the-cuff debate.

I still haven't decided who I'm voting for but it won't be for more of the same old lies, spin, hypocrisy, sleaze, nepotism, ineptitude, etc., etc...

TheDaddy 15-04-2010 11:39
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Hmm who thinks Gordon Brown is awsome

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-22186713/

Osem 15-04-2010 11:44
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35001638)
Hmm who thinks Gordon Brown is awsome

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-22186713/
:rofl:

Of course he is, after all, Brown single-handedly "saved the world" and "broke the cycle of boom and bust" before even having his Weetabix..... :rolleyes:

They're really struggling if that's what they're forced to rely on...

Damien 15-04-2010 11:46
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35001638)
Hmm who thinks Gordon Brown is awsome

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-22186713/
The amount of bias in that article is unbelievable :erm:, I don't know why people buy these papers expecting 'news'.

TheDaddy 15-04-2010 11:48
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35001643)
:rofl:

Of course he is - Brown singe-handedly "saved the world" and "broke the cycle of boom and bust" before even having his Weetabix..... :rolleyes:

They're really struggling if that's what they're forced to rely on...
I beleive the line was 'and we not only saved the world' hinting at other un-worldy things also saved by His Awesomness

Chris 15-04-2010 11:48
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35001638)
Hmm who thinks Gordon Brown is awsome

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-22186713/
The answer to this, of course, is simple. A lot of people, me included, at one time had great respect for Brown's apparent prowess as chancellor. But a couple of things have since come to light.

1. He wasn't an iron chancellor. His ineptitude was merely being masked by the very banking sector bubble that he ought to have been regulating to prevent, and which was eventually the downfall of us all.
2. He's not the chancellor any more. He's the Prime Minister. And in that job he has not at any time managed to build up a positive reputation.

I doubt very much whether anyone is planning to bring up Cameron's former praise for Brown in tonight's debate.

Osem 15-04-2010 11:53
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
While we're on the subject of embarrassing clangers, who said this do you reckon?

Quote:
A weak currency is a sign of a weak economy and a weak government.
Answers (including the above quote) on a postcard to No 10 Downing Street,.... :D

TheDaddy 15-04-2010 11:56
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35001647)
The amount of bias in that article is unbelievable :erm:, I don't know why people buy these papers expecting 'news'.
Meh you actually read the article.

I think I am going to refer to Gordon as His Awesomness from now on though.

Osem 15-04-2010 11:59
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35001661)
Meh you actually read the article.

I think I am going to refer to Gordon as His Awesomness from now on though.
Don't forget to:

:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:

when you hear or speak his name..... :D

Xaccers 15-04-2010 13:01
Re: The 2010 General Election Thread: Week 2
 
The difference in reactions to the LibDem manifesto interested me, we had Labour doing their usual soundbites and slurs, and Cameron saying "If libdem voters want *list of things in the LD manifesto* then they should vote conservative as we're bringing them in too" and no slurring of the LD's, and actually, the interviews I've heard with Cameron, he's not slurred the other parties.


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