'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Link

Poor kid. What is it with some people?

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

While I am not defending her actions at all, it's worth remembering that *some* kids would lie about something like that just to cause disruption. Maybe the kids that called her have a reputation for doing that.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Why did the pupils themselves not call an ambulance if as it is alledged that the teacher was 'too busy' to do so?

Virtually everyone has a mobile these days and it is not as if a 999 call will use up anyones calling credit.

Sad story.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Tragic case - if there aren't serious mitigating circumstances (and I can't see any in the report) then it's appalling.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Miss Ford admitted being vague on policy on asthma, and said: ‘I was in after-school mode. In hindsight, I would have done things differently.’

after-school mode? and I keep saying nothing can surprise me..sad that I'm proved wrong

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Now as a teacher I'm utterly astounded at this story..A child's suffering or a meeting? I know where her priorities should have been and she deserves all that comes her way.

I would NEVER leave a child to struggle alone with an an asthma attack but then I've been a teacher for over 36 years and I've seen some children be very ill with the condition. Her fellow colleagues would have understood her seeing to a child rather than attending a meeting even in these goal driven times.

I'm guessing she had no idea that people die from asthma.Well she does now.I just don't understand how she could walk away from a child in the throes of an attack because it's a frightening sight.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

surely the only policy needed in any school is "sick child=phone ambulance asp"everything else is secondary

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The policy in most schools is to go to the First Aid trained members of staff or the school nurse if the school has one(ours has two having nearly 2000 students).This teacher failed to do that..which does make her culpable IMHO.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Special Needs Schools have rules that would make you gasp... including not chasing a child who is running away, even if they run out of the school grounds, no matter what their mental state or handicap.

But in this case I would reckon indifference from the teacher (both of our twins suffered in education as the teachers were constantly away in meetings or on courses).

Schooltime is for educating, monitoring and looking after pupils, NOT meetings or teacher training.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

i was lucky, my education was on air force bases, teachers taught me their subjects, and often extended it to other subject areas to keep it fresh (and because they needed to be multi-disciplined)

That said..i had some real witches..oh..and change the "w" to a "b" :)

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

[QUOTE=Maggy J;34982639]The policy in most schools is to go to the First Aid trained members of staff or the school nurse if the school has one(ours has two having nearly 2000 students).This teacher failed to do that..which does make her culpable IMHO.[/QUOTE]

yes i agree 100% Maggie and if there is any doubt ten a ambulance should have been called ,by anyone ,just to cover their backs

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

did you know
Carnivorous animals will not eat another animal that has been hit by a lightning strike

I didn't know that..must remember next time I'm in the wild :)

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

there will be a new bit of trivia to fill your mind with crap every week :D

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Quite true, but thats not the teachers call, her role was to see a child in distress & get the kid some help, if its later found that the kid was swinging it, fine, punish him.

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i am glad it was you who said that not me

not going to comment much else than to say i am an asthmatic and i had hoped that sort of attitude had gone from school

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Breaking news

School head and staff have been suspended this morning over the incident.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Hmmm....

That report reads like, having failed on numerous occasions to sweep this disgraceful episode under the carpet, Council reluctantly is co-erced into token action by suspending a selection of the school staff involved.

No doubt they will all be on full pay and privileges so it will be a nice extended holiday leave for them all before the inevitable lessons learned statement and they are all exonerated and reinstated. :rolleyes:

If there is any justice left in our badly broken system, then heads really should roll, all the way up the gravy chain, over this. :mad:

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

agreed involuntary manslaughter I think fits the bill

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Given all the emphasis (often OTT IMHO) on health and safety in our schools etc., I find it hard to believe that something like this was allowed to happen to a young child with a known and serious condition. It beggars belief!

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

What a thoroughly reprehensible remark, to even suggest that the child, his friend, or his brother could be in any way culpable. A lot of eleven year olds put a tremendous amount of stock in the judgement of teachers and would have trusted her to make the right choices.

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

I might be wrong but, I don't think that is a valid verdict in a British coroner's court. I think the equivalent is unlawful killing.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Nothing suprises me these days,my nephew has got cancer and is having chemotherapy at the local hospital.he went to his gp (who incorrectly diagnosed the said cancer by the way) the other day and was asked are you sure you've got cancer.my nephew is sat there with his hair falling out because of the chemo and the gp said are you sure its cancer.
UNBELIEVABLE.
What ever is this country coming to.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

I did make it clear I was not defending her actions. However, reprehensible or not, I have seen what I described happen. Some kids (not all, or even most) will do something like that.

Hower, I agree with SMG's earlier remark. Whether she thought that or not, it was not her call to decide whether to call an ambulance or not. She should at least have gone to see the child.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Quite right, 'manslaughter' (of any kind) is not a Coroner's verdict. 'Unlawful killing' is. However, whilst Coroner's verdicts generally are arrived at on the balance of probabilities, Unlawful Killing is one of only two Coroner's verdicts which must be proved beyond reasonable doubt, the same standard of proof as would be required in a criminal trial. The only other Coroner's verdict that requires this standard of proof is Suicide.

It is very unlikely that the inquest in this case will result in a verdict of Unlawful Killing IMO.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

I believe it has already arrived at a verdict of "neglect."

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

It is very unlikely that the inquest in this case will result in a verdict of Unlawful Killing IMO.

I reckon the verdict will be Death By Natural Causes IMO.The head and Staff will return to school and nothing will happen unfortunately.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

The verdict was announced earlier today.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

I have been there myself teachers dont care as its to much hard work and paperwork.

When i was 11 back in 1993 i was attacked by 2 boys outside form class in school and the 2 boys in question were known bullies. The reason the attacked me was simple, i suffer from a skin problem called Psoriasis through stress and i was punched and kicked so bad it ruptured a disk in my spine and injured my colar bone...

My form teacher said nothing to them, left me on the floor in pain while she screamed at me to get up and stop messing around and if it wasnt for another teacher who we became good friends and its been 12 years since i left school and still in contact an Ambulance would never have been called.

That has left me with a life long disability.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

if you look at the post to which my post was a reply you will see Maggy saying the teacher is culpable. I agreed and said involuntary manslaughter at no point did I mention coroners court did I ;) ( sorry about the delay I aint been keeping up)

As the verdict was neglect they will not get criminal charges but that does not mean civil action can not be taken. Those involved should be made to pay one way or another

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Just an update on this story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-10711293

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Yes some kids can be little pains but the end of the day i would never ignore something like this however serious and i don't believe most would either you would at the very least go to the place of the incident and look for yourself. Sorry but if i had a kid that died because someone was too busy going to a meeting they might be guilty of unlawful killing but i would be guilty of much worse afterwards, this was totally disgusting.

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Exactly what good is sacking a staff member 3 years later going to do ?

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Better three years later then never although immediately would of course been preferred.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

An update.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-11493343

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

running away rather than facing up to it
i would not let a child of mine near a school where any of those involved in this taught

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so who's decision would be to sack her ,who would have had the authority? i ask because the governors wanted her sacked back in july according to the above quote

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the governers would but i expect they were going through the motions to protect them selves from an unfair dismisal suit as they havnt got the gumption to stand up and be counted and call this what it is which i think most juries would agree with that being it was gross misconduct

as i think neglect that contributed to a pupils death can not be seen by the average person on the clapham omnibus ( some will get that bit ;) ) as any thing other than that

but as usual just like those governors who were willing to curtail normal play yard games because of a few complaints they seem to think more about thier risks than that of those they volunteered to look out for they seem to like the titles but not the load that goes with it

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Thanks for that roger ,
It would appear then that the governors of the school have deliberately allowed a staff member who is guilty of neglect at best and contributing to the death of a minor at worst(if that is a real legal term) to resign instead of being sacked
I have no doubt that there was absolutely no malice or intent intended by the teacher but in cases were death is caused by neglect then criminal charges should have been brought ,after all it was only a case rearanging priorities as far as the teacher was concerened and nothing was more important than the safety and welbeing of the children in the schools care .A totally avoidable death

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

Usually governors don't have the full powers to sack a headteacher, as typically the headteacher will ultimately be employed by the local authority. They can recommend dismissal and declare a state of no confidence, in which the local authority will have little choice but to accept. I think the lack of action, in terms of her employment, was probably down to both bodies not coming to an agreement as to how they should proceed. But Roger's assessment of governors, as a whole, is not too distant from what really does go in many schools. If there any claims of this nature, they could potentially be personally responsible for any compensation. There was a case recently when a school was shut down by the health and safety executive because some very serious breaches of fire regulations (fire extinguishers not working, fire escapes sealed etc. I think), the governors were fined and had to pay the penalty themselves. I'll see if I can find a link to it somewhere.

Re: 'too busy to call an ambulance'
 

I think you will find most governing bodies can dismiss for gross misconduct as they in most cases are the employer in fact if they do not act where a teacher is not capable of doing thier job for what ever reason ( and this case i would say put the head and some others easily with in the catragory of being unfit ) they could find themselves liable


see
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ulation/3/made

The Education (Teachers) Regulations 1993

* 1993 No. 543
* PART I
* Section 3

saying that i am sure they did leaise with thier local authority for advice but it still falls to them as employers