A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&M GM
 

Hi everyone-

Any comments and advice from the community very much appreciated on this. I am in the position to pay their suggested 'fine' as a settlement but I did not d/l or share the file they state and I do not want the implied guilt of a 'quick settlement to get ot all sorted and off my mind' scenario.

I recently received a recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' a firm of UK lawyers representing 'Media & More GMBH & CO KG'. It does not appear to be a 'Part 36' letter as it is requiring a 14 day maximum response time (UK Justice Ministry guidelines state clearly clearly 'not less than 21 days' to respond to a formal part 36 and I cannot see the phrase "Part 36" anywhere on it which is also a requirement of a letter 'intended to have the consequences of a part 36'.

The letter included a copy of a spreadsheet with hundreds of other IP address on it- so I imagine other people will be receiving similar letters.

They allege I used p2p software to download porn: what they have identified I did not.

The company they used to trawl for IP was 'Media Protetcor GMBH' who have a website http://stop-p2p-piracy.com

On their FAQ it states that it is impossible for their technology to identify an IP address incorrectly; or for your wireless connection to be hacked into so that an intruder can use your signal connection to download/ upload i.e. if this were the case then MP GMBH would pick up on that and not identify IP address in their trawl.

The TBI 'offer letter' appears markedly different from the ones being discussed such as the DL/ACS and Andrew Crossley situations.

For example it refers to a major case at the High Court in London (Justice Warren on 28th January 2010) and it says that there will be no more contact between them and myself unless I agree to their undertakings and make the three digit compensation- otherwise they will move straight to court proceedings. Here is the relevant text:

"Legal Consequences
The extensive file sharing activity is causing damage to our client's business. Our
client is therefore left with no alternative but to police its intellectual property rights
and enforce them against infringers.

In the event that it becomes necessary for our client to bring a claim against you for
copyright infringement, the legal costs of those proceedings will be substantial. We
must make you aware that if successful, our client will be entitled to recover from you
damages and a contribution towards its legal costs of bringing the claim to court. You
will also have to incur your own legal costs. We estimate that collectively such costs
would be several thousand pounds. In the event that you were not able to pay
whatever sums the court may direct, our client would have no option but to take steps
to enforce the debt against your property."

Next Steps —
payment and undertakings
You can provide the undertaking (referred to at 1 and 2 above) by signing the written
undertakings enclosed with this letter and returning them to this firm, together with
your payment, using the attached payment form. Payment must be made either by
cheque, bank transfer, credit card or SWITCH/DELTA. No other form of payment
will be accepted.
For the avoidance of doubt, these undertakings will represent an agreement between
you and our client and if you act in breach of that agreement, our client will have no
option but to take further action against you. The payment and undertakings must be
made and received by us within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

Next Steps —
commencing proceedings
In the event that either the payment or undertakings are not received within fourteen
days of the date of this letter, we are instructed to commence proceedings without
further notice. "

I am minded to send a brief LOD by recorded delivery but am worried about the phrase of " we are instructed to commence proceedings without
further notice" - this was not used by ACS.

Any advice on what steps to take much appreciated.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Smells to me like a scam, tbh.
But you might want to read this before making your decision.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Thanks for link- will definitely read before doing anything.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

This could be a scam but I agree with the advice above.

Which ISP are you with? When did the alleged insident take place

Why not contact TBI directly by phone and ask to speak to someone regarding the case reference on the letter. You don't need to give TBI any information other than the case ref which they will be able to verify if this is at least something they sent or if it is a fake.

If it is something from them then don't say anything other than you are going to consider your position. Then at least you would know if it is a scam or not and you still have the same 14 days to respond

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

It is from them (and they are a major law firm not like the previous cowboys) as I called from a payphone and asked to speak to the person mentioned on the BT class action (put down when they connected) isp names and address action = this one here:

From recorded package that arrived:

MEDIA & MORE GMBH & CO KG (applicant / Intended claimant)

and

BRITISH TELECOMMUNICATIONS PLC (respondent)

and

PERSONS UNKNOWN (intended defendant)

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE CHANCERY DIVISION INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
Before Mr Justice Warren
This 27th day of January 2010

Upn the Application as set out in Claim Form dated 20 January 2010

Warren forced BT to turn over names of people with a BT ISP Ip address 'identified' by Media Protector people. They had 6 months to do it but obviously turned them over immediately.

I cannot find any info on this on the web either and no serial/ ident number on High Court documents

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Do they give you a date of the alledged infringment?

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

yes

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Please don't post exact date but how many months does this go back?

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Lets just say the alleged date is from a period covered by previous law firms- I did think this was possibly a case of pass-the-parcel

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Media Protector:

http://cyberlaw.org.uk/2009/01/04/hu...-porn-pirates/

http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-...ploads-080714/


How would they know that? :confused:

They don't know if you are the infringer (is that a word?), or if it's someone else in your house (child, flatmate, whatever), or if it's someone next door or outside with a laptop.

Surely all they have (like all ACS/DL have) is an IP - nothing that actually proves that a specific named individual committed an act of copyright infringement.

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:53 ----------

I'd go with ceedee's advice of reading this:

http://ceedee.co.uk/everything-you-n...a-file-sharing


Plus also have a look at the usual info given to people dealing with ACS/DL, as it sounds like the same sort of thing.

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room...le-sharing.htm

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

These are the most pertinent elements where they claim its impossible to be hacked/ have IP address stolen. Ant techie explnation for a non techie appreciated

*************

Evidentiary Value Of IP Adresses

- Is It Possible That Someone Stole or Forged My IP Address?

With file sharing in the eDonkey2000 network, the use of forged IP addresses and/or the abuse of IP addresses is virtually impossible as a thorough and effective manipulation would require the Internet Service Provider’s participation in those illegal activities and would also imply further complex measures.


- Is It Possible That Another P2P Participant Was Somehow Using My IP Address?

FileWatch will not log any IP data before a direct (peer-to-peer) connection to the P2P participant was established. Extensive authentication mechanism together with the network`s bidirectional communications eliminate the possibility, that a “Hacker� could somehow use the IP address of another P2P participant.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

OK- thinking about my LOD- two questions:

1) do I say something about not expecting to receive another letter from them;
2) Do I respond to any further communication from them having sent the LOD by registered post and keeping the documentation/ proo-of-posting (and a copy of the letter)

Again advice much appreciated on this.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

It is possible that someone else was using your connection at the time - however, this isn't always a defense depending on your ISPs Terms and Conditions (some state that you are responsible for everything that happens on your connection).

They cannot distinguish WHICH computer it was on your connection doing the alleged infringing (especially if you have a NAT Router with Firewall [most are these days]). But again that brings me back to your ISPs terms and conditions :)

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Is this why BT are the 'easy target' that these law companies continue to extract IP's from ?

Well I just cannot see that argumnet standing up in court- if that is what is comes to. Luckily someone on another forum in PM offered pc-technical help with that (on trashing 'techical- forensic analysis) and best friends partner is a Barrister who has done a lot of HRA cases (including as high as ECHR) and such like so I'd not have to pay for legal counsel and representation.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

PAH- the only way they can KNOW it was from a specific computer (and even then a sophisticated hacker can get around this) is if they infected a movie/ file (and therefore a computer) with malware so that when it was clicked to open it would transmit a text file with said IP/ PC details back to File Watch.

Of course that is an illegitimate evidence collection technique (the same procedure hackers use to hijack wireless connections/ piggy back signals/ remotely control a computer etc).

It's also inadmissible in court- another reason why no DEFENDED cases have ever appeared before a Judge.

*But* File Watch and TBI are banking on the idea that if they select only those that their malware indicate did D/L the movie (wireless hackers notwithstanding) will- in the face of brutal court papers/ technical documentation and a settlement offer- cave in and pay up (a la DL before).

Don't do it. The case- should it ever get that far and it won't - will be thrown out of court once FW reveal their true actual illegitimate method of data collection.

Get off a concise denial that you nor anyone else D/L'd the file and listen to that lawyer partner of your friend.

CALM DOWN !!

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

........apart from an extremely agressive first approach these guys are no different to Davenprt Lyons and ACS. (They are only interested in getting your cash!)

As such their claim should be treated exactly the same. As the account holder (I presume) you are held totally responsible. (in their eyes)

In reality you have to have either been personally responsible or authorised the action. (in which case seek legal advice)

If the above is not the case then reply and deny. Remember to keep your response simple - any additional information you supply will/may be used against you.

I can also reccomend you visit the chatroom at "beingthreatened"

By the way welcome to the game;)

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

The more I have read about this phenomenon (being a 'virgin' till the recorded letter arrived) the more annoyed I have become.

I have not downloaded what I am being accused of and neither let anyone else do it.

All the various contributions on here illustrate that this is a fundamentally unsound (and in some cases illegitimate) technology and that it is 'unsafe and unsound' as a means to establish guilt (in the UK certainly- entrapment and/ or no evidence that ISP 'owner' was present when alleged offence took place). There have been TV programmes apparently on UK TV showing how easy (and frequent) is the hijacking/ piggy backing / hacking of wireless internet connections.

I have come to the conclusion that this is indeed simply a fishing exercise to smoke out those who indeed know they are guilty ('fair cop guv' scenarios) or the nervy/ non-cognate people who will pay up to 'make it all go away'.

The fact that it is- for the moment- a legitimate practice for erstwhile bona fide UK law firms to engage in only makes it more annoying.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

That's exactly my view too, mazwell.
But I didn't want to be seen to be influencing you too much.

If your pro bono legal advisers are up for it, I'd suggest you consider taking on the copyright speculators in court and the press.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

the trouble is - on what grounds would you do this?

they are always careful not to send out too many letters so that counts out harrassment. Folk recieving more than 3 letters are the same folk who have tried to be clever. The extra info they supply invites yet more questions.

Hence the best advice is -
1/Chill
2/ send a simple "I did not do it" LOD (Do Not try and look for a loophole)
3/ Repeat 2 as and when required
4/ Make a note in your 2016 Diary that case is now statute barred

In the meanwhile get complaining to the SRA and lobby your MP

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Can you imagine if this had been a virgin customer that has just been sent this letter and then you factor in the fact that they are about to or are testing there detica snoopware. Smoke without fire would have been the first thing out of my mouth.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

I am following yours (and others similar) steps 1-4.

But if they do take it to court I will request a suitable location (not NE) and will enlist partner of my friend- I've already communicated with her at Garden Court chambers.

I hope and anticipate that it does not come to that as its all so unnecessary and a total hassle (not withsatnding a allegation I am innocent of): but contest it vigorously we shall.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Top tip. They sent you a recorded delivery letter? Don't accept or sign for it. After all if you aren't expecting something sent in that manner, you don't need it do you ;)

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Rob, I realise your comment was intended to be humerous and please do not take this the wrong way but that is poor advice....

Clearly the business model has no intention of going any where near a court

BUT....

Davenport Lyons claim to have scored a "major victory" in court. It was against a "non-person" i.e. someone who did not respond or as some conclude did not actually exist.

In either case advocating a recipient to "ignore" letters invites them being "picked on" to attend court and whilst the general consensus of opinion is that the "evidence" is poor, no one knows this for a fact.

Far better advice is just to play the "game" and eventually (so far) they will get bored and leave you alone.

Remember people recieving this type of letter turn to the forums for advice;)

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Please see Beingthreatened tye it into google

Also Slyck Forums have a great thread on this over 300 pages

Just use google type acs bore wordpress to get a blog

Twitter acs_law_illegal

Their are LOTS of resources out their. Do NOT Worry, Stand STRONG, you are NOT alone

---------- Post added at 23:59 ---------- Previous post was at 23:57 ----------

http://acslawscammers.bravehost.com/index.html

IF any of you have a scanned letter from Tilly Bailey Irvine please post it to me at acs.bore@googlemail.com Thanks, take out the destails or I will.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Hello all to this thread!
Me and my family are also now victims and have uploaded edited scans of the claim documents that where sent to me a week ago, i noticed many of you have asked for someone to do it, i hope these scans are helpful for research x
The Law Firm is (Tilly Bailey Irvin) working on behalf of (Media & More GHBM & CO.KG)

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...do/BSScam1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...do/BSScam5.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...do/BSScam2.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...do/BSScam3.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...do/BSScam4.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d.../BSScam1-2.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...BSScam1001.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d.../BSScam1-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...ap-BSScam1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...ap-BSScam2.jpg


---------- Post added at 02:53 ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 ----------

Your not alone ;-D

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Suprised no-one has posted a link to it yet but I'd suggest that the OP fully reads the Davenport Lyons thread

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/25...ort-lyons.html

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Maybe this thread should be merged with the DavenportLyons/ACS thread?

......it is the same story after all

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Yes and no, We don't know yet how TBI is playing this and to merge the threads before that happens might muddy the waters.. It's interesting as they've included the intended claim paperwork (which I presume they used to get the IP's)

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Sorry to disagree with you Kymmy but TBI are proceeding exactly the same as D/L and ACS

Essentially they have used an as yet unsubstantiated method to "detect" IP addresses. The accuracy of this "method" is in serious doubt (discussion of this point "done to death" elsewhere).

They have then used an NPO to obtain account holder details from the ISP - in this case BT

Finally they have sent an extremely agressive "offer to settle" letter to said account holder.

The only difference I can see is that TBI seem to be trying to outdo D/L in the agressiveness of their approach. They seem to be breaking the same pre-action protocols as all the other shy.. err ...law firms involved in this sca... err ...scheme.
Yes they seem more organised
No I do not see them going anywhere near a court

However you are correct they are still an unknown quantity (however I know which way I am placing my Bet)

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

I don't disagree but TBI might be stupid enough to proceed to court, if so that might put this whole practice to bed once and for all..

The DL/ACS thread is linked to from this one so lets take it from there

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Many of the issues may seem similar. It is better to keep this as a separate thread rather than merging them. There are plenty of links in each thread to the other. But keeping them as separate threads will help others in difficulty find this forum's assistance if they are doing a search by the various company names.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

There's an informative write-up on TorrentFreak.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Good news for some.

Re: A new Sheriff in Town? Recorded letter from 'Tilly Bailey Irvine' on behalf of M&
 

Mr Angry's Post copied to this thread since it's relevant here too ;)