Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Did'nt see a thread for this one so here goes:


Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered

Sky News

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I saw james wale on sky news this morning going on about this ,apparantly a few parents have objected because the school ,i think it's a infants school ,raised a lamb as part of a exercise to teach children were their food comes from and when it got to the correct age they sent it off for slaughter ans some of the kids were a little upset so some parents have kicked up a stink
I can't see whats wrong myself :shrug:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I always think people get to involved in this thing about what is right and wrong with raising an animal, and then sending it for slaughter.

Everyone including small children should know what happens to animals, they are bred to join the food chain, and it should be left up to them how they feel about it, parents have a duty to teach there children about this, and if it comes to it, schools should teach them what happens, when l was a kid, l would be taken to a farm and shown what was happening, ok we didn't see them being slaughted, but l would have like to see it happen, but l find it bad when a teacher has to leave becuase of it.

I watched a programme a couple of months ago, involving three different animals, and the only thing that made me feel sick was a chicken, and how they killed it,. The rest was fine, it is very interesting to see, but l would be able to slaughter anything - it would be the smell, that would put me off.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Have a shower beforehand, then....;)

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

"Dad! Where do chips come from?"


"Tesco son, Tesco"

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

a couple of years ago when my son was 9 or 10 he asked me how to make bacon and didn't know crisps and potatoes were the same thing

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Did he serve up the lamb for schooldinners? :p

They're not, you can't make potatoes from crisps ;)

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

ha,ha :p:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

My uncle used to raise chickens, geese, turkeys, and pigs on the family smallholding when I was a kid. Other than the pigs I got to see the entire life-cycle of the animals from birth/hatching to slaughter. Plus I used to shoot and butcher wildfowl and rabbits for the pot....

It really does boggle the mind what a sheltered existence people live these day's, that the slaughter of a lamb has cost a head teacher his job....

People really do need to withdraw their heads from their rectums and return to reality. :rolleyes:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I agree with you..the reasons in recent years s to why headteachers lose their jobs have gotten more and more bizarre and unfair.

Now if it was because the school was failing or the children were failing to learn to read etc I could accept a resignation/dismissal but this? Ridiculous! :mad:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I think it was inevitable he'd get the chop. I bet he's feeling a little sheepish now. :Sprint:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

it woulld be interesting to know how many people who were applying preassure for her to resign were from outside the community ,as the school was in a farming community it would appear that alot of people from outside the area and know nothing about the realities of farming and where food comes from ,like paul o grady who keeps sheep ,i suspect only as pets

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I don't really recall being taught at infant or primary school where food comes from, maybe we learnt how fruit & veg were grown. Basically our parents told us these things.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

The children voted for Marcus to be slaughtered, still I doubt that stopped the internet witch hunt that demanded this teacher should not only be sacked but never teach again, we are so lucky to have so many teachers in this country after all....

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

What wasn't inevitable though was that his chops would end up being raffled of....

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

This has much to do with the treatment of children's feelings as it does with the wishes of parents. It appears that of the many of parents didn't want this to happen and neither did many of the children, but the head teacher decided to ignore this and go ahead and slaughter the animal. It has been her decision to resign and it is the parents privilege to disagree with how the school is managed.

---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

She did not "lose" her job; she resigned.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

yep that was my first thought ,this country is trying to get good teachers who are prepared to stay in the job ,the more i read about this the more disgusted i am

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Erm - from the link in the OP btw, "he" is a "she" - Andrea Charman.

btw, CF'ers may like to examine the wording of the petition against the lamb's fate - linky
V. emotive and imflammatory, imho.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Duly noted and adjusted.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

OK, who's stupid idea was it to name the lamb? If you're buying animals for slaughter then naming it is the last thing you want anyone to do as you're putting a personality on the animal

:doh:


You should check on the side of some crisp packets, some have are not even made from potato :(

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

nice to see you're reading links again :rolleyes:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

According to the news report, the Head Teacher had the backing of the school governors, the school council, the majority of the parents. Even the pupils themselves voted to sell the meat to raise money for more animals. Busybodies sticking their noses in have cost this teacher her job and children learning the reality of eating meat.

She was driven to resign by these busybodies which is tantamount to losing her job.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

that's a tad worrying :erm:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

However, you didn't adjust your comment that it was against the wishes of many of the children, even though the pupil-run school council voted 13 to 1 in favour of the action.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

agreed :tu: setting up a face book campaign by people who most likely had absolutely nothing to do with that community was disgusting

any one know if there is any way of posting on that facebook thingy my views of these people

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I very much doubt they actually voted for the animal to be killed. I don't think children as young as seven would have understood the implications of such a choice. Fourteen children from a school of hundreds is not a very fair representation for such options. The children did not make this decision, thirteen children out of the whole school made it. The "school council" vote the way they are told to by those who really make the decisions. They are made up of the children who are the most popular and not those who will represent the needs and feelings of the student body (this is sounding very familiar). If you had a seven year old and told them that the animal they had cared for all year was about to die and made into sausages for them to eat and then asked them if it was okay for that to happen, what do you think they would say?

I'd say this woman has succeeded in turning many of these childen into vegetarians; so not a failure all round then.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

nevertheless the fact remains that the children were well aware of why they were rearing a sheep ,they voted on it and most of the parents agreed with it

and above all it was nothing to do with most people who objected nothing wrong in showing children of whatever age where the food comes from ,it's called ..education

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I know at that age the sheep being slaughtered would have broken my heart, where as if I had been older I would still have been heart broken but would have been able to deal with it better.
I know children raised on farms etc know all about this from a young age and except it.

Should this lady have been forced out of her job for it though...................nope I think not

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

If you really believe that, you are more naive than I thought.

It has everything to do with what most people object to. The school has a responsibility to the community of parents, to ensure that their children's welfare is observed with whatever decision they make. They also have a responsibility to adhere to the wishes of those parents, when it comes to subjects that affect their emotions and feelings. They are the ones whose childen are affected by what the school do. Yes there is nothing wrong with showing children where their food comes from, but there was no need to slaughter their friend to do it.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Flyboy , i am commenting on the facts as presented not the ones i choose to believe

here's some comments from parents of children who attend the school these are the facts i will comment on not the ones you think exist



View Comment
wayne, on 11 September 2009 16:22, said... I have 2 daughters that go to Lydd Primary and they have been aware, along with all the other children, that they would raise the lamb and then send it to market / slaughter in September. The decision for this was made in June. It is only a small minority of the parents and children at the school that oppose.


Steve, on 12 September 2009 08:03, said... My son goes to Lydd and although we new about it he's still upset over it. The decision was made in the right way with everyone voting last term so while I disagree I think the school has done the right thing

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

An interesting insight into your own personal bias then.

Walt Disney has a lot to answer for. Turning animals into cuddly talking cartoons.

Everything in the world is food for something else. That's how it works.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

shouldn't have named it should have explained to parents their intention from the beginning not up to the school to decide when a child is ready for ALL the facts of life

most here saying that she did the right thing are the first to point at parents for not parenting

i know if they had done this with out informing me especially with my youngest child I would have been gunning for her resignation too

i am not a vegetarian and would when they were old enough show them an abattoir some thing many here have never seen i have killed animals for various reasons from chickens for food to putting ( helping ) a beloved pet down

all of these things and how you explain them depend on the child and how it was brought up yes some see it from birth in real terms ( though few now ) if brought up on a farm but most don't and a lot of us would prefer the Kids stay kids as long as they can rather than being forced into the adult world for anything

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

the kids weren't marched to the abattoir and forced to watch you know ,everybody ,children and parents alike were told exactly what was going to happen from start to finish and the children were fully involved even to the point of deciding what would happen to the meat .

We have discussed this many times on this forum about how 1 or 2 parents get something into their heads and decide they need to act for the majority and be outraged for everyone on behalf of the little darlings and usually it ends up with a perfectly good teacher losing their job

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

So you are a firm believer in representative democracy until it differs from your viewpoint.....:erm:

The Ofsted report disagrees with your viewpoint - page 3 14 out of 235 pupils sounds like a good representation.

It also states which is when Andrea Charman was appointed.

Also, can you confirm how you know that any of the school council members are seven, or was that just a made-up emotive argument?

Would you be vegetarian, perchance?

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

i beg to differ more than 1 or 2 of the parents have said they were not informed nor did their kids understand that this would happen

doesn't say much for teaching if they couldn't ensure they did



and in any case this isn't something they should be doing in school

and getting the kids to vote on what to do with it afterwards doesn't mean they agreed to start with

there is a time and place for everything and school isn't the place for this


as to Ofsted i remember they said a certain social services department was great too !

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

But everyone didn't vote, did they? Only fourteen children were given the opportunity to vote. And two comments from two hundred and thirty odd, does not make a majority. If the school were that certain of the student body's opinion, why didn't they ask them all, or are saying that referenda don't mean anything?







---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

It might help to read the article referred to earlier in the thread.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

perhaps they were ones who cared for the animal most .The fact still remains and it is confirmed that the idea was given approval by parents,teachers,and the governing body everybody concerned new what was going to happen but when some wishy washy parents got wind of it they thought they would kick up a stink on behalf of a load of kids who probably already new exactly what was going to happen because it is a farming community ,and now the school system is minus one very good head teacher thanks to a load of busy bodies

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

No, they were the school council.

Well, obvioulsy not, otherwise why the complaints?

If it was just some parents, by which I presume you mean just a few, why the furore? Surely, if it was a tiny minority, they could have been dealt with pretty easily.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

So why the need for the headteacher to resign? Surely, if she was that good, a bit of tittle-tattle on facebook, from unconnected people, wouldn't faze her.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

it wasn't a bit of "title tattle" it was a campaign to force her to resign or spare the lamb from slaughter and i suspect that animal rights groups had a lot to do with it

link

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

a) which article
b) It might help if you answered some of the questions I asked. Or are we just going to keep on evading them?

You keep going on about it only being 14 children - they are the school council, selected by the other children, as their representatives; Democracy is fine, except when it doesn't agree with your views?

8 parents of the 235 children at the school complained - but thanks to the internet and the media, it became a world-wide phenomenom, with all the cranks coming out of the woodwork.

A "bit of tittle-tattle"? Times The worst feature of the internet - allows anonymous bullying from a distance.......:(

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Exactly, let's have a look at what's been said by people hiding behind keyboards on Face Book

One by Teresa Marie Compton, read: 'Burn the school down. That'll learn them.'

Katie Doolittle wrote: 'Let poor Marcus live and send the headmistress to the abattoir.'

Lisa Price posted: 'I am livid, the b******s killed him. What goes around comes around.'

And Amy Shead said of the headmistress: 'She will get her comeuppance.'

Sound like a nice bunch don't they, although the first poster didn't actually say whether or not the children should be in the school or not when it's burnt down, I'd go for inside if I were her though, it'd learn them better...

---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:21 ----------

It's alright one of the mums has contacted a solicitor now to sue :rolleyes:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

re the solicitors - I think we could all see that coming.

I am sure the mum will be suing Disney next, for the trauma her daughter suffered watching "Bambi" and "Old Yeller".

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Just carry on fooling them with this crap.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/02/76.jpg

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

no intention of fooling them just a time and a place to do it

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

And that caused her to resign. Not made of very stern stuff, was she?

---------- Post added at 00:45 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

From the BBC link earlier in the thread.

My dietary habits are irrelevant, however my conscience is with the morals that protect children from losing a loved one, how about yours?

I was unaware of the number of parents who complained, but there have not been articles which I have seen that say how many, could you let me see them?

I agree, it is one of the worst feature of the internet and there many whom we both know who fit this profile, but surely that is a matter for the hosts and for the police. Why has there not been an investigation? As I do not subscribe to these sites, I must rely on your better knowledge that these threats exist. I cannot condone the behaviour of those who behave in this way and it saddens me, if the reports are true, that they had to resort to such methods.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I think it was a bad idea hand rearing the lamb..naming it and then sending it to slaughter... I know when I was that age I'd of been traumatised by such a thing... the children will have seen it as a pet, regardless. :soapbox:

She shouldn't have lost her job over it though.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I would say if you are a vegetarian it suggests you might be against lambs becoming lamb chops regardless of whether the lamb was a pet or not.

A loved one? The school didn't get the kids to bring in their gran and have a human BBQ. It was a lamb, they don't run wild and free, they are bred for food and giving children an insight into where food actually comes from is a good idea IMO.

It's not like they took them on a school trip to see wee mint sauce or whatever it was called getting slaughtered in the abbatoir.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Yes, what a softie - being upset and worried about threats of violence and death to her personally, and threats to set the school on fire, and animal excrement being posted to the school.:rolleyes:
Thank your for that - so, do you think the democratically elected representatives in this school, no matter what their age, should be disenfranchised - or only on matters where their views disagree with yours? (I wonder what your viewpoint/comments would have been if the vote had been 13 to 1 the other way - "a victory for democracy" perhaps?
imho, your dietary habits are extremely relevant, as they shape your world-view, and your comments upon others. And I do not regard a animal bred for food as a "loved one" (mmmm, 8/10 for emotive terminology). My children know where their food comes from, and have been educated in the food supply chain life-cycle.

If you look in the Independent article (and other local websites), you will see comments from local parents (Tedgar74) stating this.Thank you for your caveated comment - I do not subscribe to these sites either, but it only took me ten minutes to find this out; I suppose it depends if one is interested in finding out......

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

In all of this you will find many children are far less sentimental about animals and their use as food than their parents.

These children have lost a great teacher and have learned the wonderful lesson that internet bullying is a highly successful way a few people can bulldoze over the wishes of the majority. :rolleyes:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Seems to me this thread should really be called ;

I wonder how many of the posters even had a clue where the school is ...

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Or that the school was in special needs before this head took over, I wonder if some of the parents were quite so vocal then?

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

You don't have to be vegetarian/vegan to be an animal lover though do you?

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

you dont have to be a vegetarian to be against this

see post #32

and loved one yes kids can become very attached very quickly

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I'm thinking of setting up a Save Andrea Charmin Facebook entry...

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

and i would be support that ....if someone tells me how use facebook:dunce:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Created by her daughter by the look of that.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

i am an animal lover..I love steak..chops etc

I prefer mutton to lamb..except if it's a woman..then the opposite :)

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Didn't know that had happened and it is a dispicable thing to do, but again, I didn't read the right web pages. Or is this just a bit hyperbole?

Do you really expect a bunch of seven, eight, nine, ten and eleven year olds really understood what they were voting for? Surely no one is so naive to imagine, a strong minded head teacher could influence a vote by these little children (yes, they are just little children)? Which way do you think a vote to slaughter the class hamster would have gone? Were they asked to vote on whether the animal should be sold, or sold then slaughtered? It would be very interesting to know how the ballot papers were worded, if indeed there was an actual ballot, or was it just a show of hands?

[Obvioulsy I don't expect you to able to answer, but these are all questions that need to be asked]

Still, only one parent seemed to have felt strongly enough to post a message and they seemed to feel it necessary to post the same message twice and apparently the only source to the number of parents who complained. In the local press, it appears only two parents felt passionate enough to comment (one being the same from the Independent, I dare say), if they really are parents of children at the school. These sorts of things are hardly certain, are they?

I found this comment particularly interesting though; from a horse's mouth, so to speak:

You are very welcome. Was this just hearsay, or do you believe it to be accurately reported? When I did a Google search-"teacher threats sheep excrement", the only source to reports of excrement being posted, was from that paragon of truth, balance and reliability: The Daily Heil.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

You really are clutching at straws now. Since you lost the argument about the vote you now change to having a go at the children themselves, trying to make out they didnt understand what they voted for. Just for your information, I asked my neice (who is 10) if she understood exactly what the vote was about. Sadly for your argument, she did, as Im quite sure did the school council.

You also accuse the head of influencing them with no evidence at all, just more desperation on your part as you cant comprehend that these poor "little childen" might actually have known what they were voting for, and you dont like it.

As for the class Hamster, thats irrelevant, since such an animal is clearly a pet, a totally different situation - allthough according to you they would also have voted to slaughter that as well, since they clearly had no idea of what they were voting for :rolleyes:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

one of my children is on a school council they dont really get to vote on things as in for or against its there to make the school look good in inspections ! and again to look good for a body that said a certain social services department was good !

this sort of exercise should be for the secondary schools not for these children yes children there may be ready but while there are those there who are not it should not be forced on them

and as i have pointed out i am not vegetarian i have even killed animals on a friends farm for food

but i would have done everything and still would to stop them doing this at my kids school

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

My daughter is 7 and we cook together (well, I cook, she supervises ;) ), and this came up naturally one day, as she asked what we were actually preparing, leg of lamb. I was quite clear in my answer but kept it basic, we were eating an animal, a lamb, because we eat meat and that's what happens. They live on farms and have to die for humans to eat. After pondering for a second she said "so they die and their legs are chopped off?". I said "yes". Nothing more was asked until we sat to eat and she said "are we eating a lamb's leg?"

"Yes".

She popped a piece in her mouth and said "Mmmm, yummy :). She wasn't at all troubled and always asks what she is eating now, although I did chuckle when she asked what part an animal did roast chicken come from :dozey:

Children ask questions about the world and we shouldn't be afraid of answering them, in a basic easy-to-understand way, nor do I have a problem learning this at school as it's educational about how we live. If the children were upset it was probably at the loss of animal as a pet rather than the actual slaughter, and pets are a good way of teaching children about loss. It happens unfortunately, and it should have been a good way of parents connecting with their children to understand their feelings, instead of the adults acting like hooligans (the Head should have her house burned down? Did someone really write that? :shocked: If they did they should have been hauled in for questioning for threatening this)

It could have been a interesting learning experience, but it's meant the loss of an apparently good Headmistress, and that I think is an absolute shame.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Well said :clap: I know mine have and will react exactly the same way (now aged 10 & 13). Children are far less sentimental when it comes to food than people think, and very well able to cope with the truth. The younger they are introduced to the truth the more straightforward the reaction.

We have an excellent farm shop nearby where you can see the animals in the barn and can clearly explain that when they are big enough they will be killed and sold in the on site shop.

A local butchers has a photograph of the animal with name and age and where it was from for beef sold in the shop.

Hamsters are brilliant class pets because they have a fairly short life and the children can learn about death & loss. Wrapping them up in cotton wool & shielding them from reality will do them no favours whatsoever. Is it any wonder we have a shortage of home grown Doctors & Nurses when learning about illness & death is hidden away.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

last two posts:clap:

agree 100%

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

They are also lovely with chips, corn niblets and salad cream.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

that is your decision based on what you feel you child is up to understanding and good for you doing things with your kids

BUT this is a school not all the kids are the same and it should be up to the parents when and how kids learn this sort of thing

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

The problem with this approach is out of a class of 30 you might be lucky to have 5 children with parents who take the trouble to inform their children properly. Another 5 who will have parents who are anti the school teaching anything remotely to do with emotional development. Leaving the majority with parents who believe this is the teachers job learning nothing, because of the few who cannot trust the teachers. :rolleyes:

Why else would we have such things as compulsory relationship education.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I don't think you quite understood what I was writing. Pets die all the time, but they tend to die a natural death and are very rarely eaten afterwards, but I very much doubt that childen as young as this would vote for it to be slaughtered. At no point did I suggest that this school council had voted for such a thing. If you asked a seven year old to decide to kill a lamb that they had been caring for, from birth for a year, do you really expect them to say, "yes, let's kill and eat it, mmmmmmm, tasty." I have not had a go at children, what a really odd accusation. I don't think that anyone could ever had inferred that from my post. I wonder why you have.

Headteachers influence the decisions of children all the time, if it suits their goals, just as any other adult, especially parents. I have seen teachers and headteachers "supervise" school council elections and votes and as chairs, they hold a veto. Do you really think that if a headteacher wanted to achieve a certain objective, that they wouldn't do their best to persuade the school council to come the "right" decision? I have seen this happen on more than one occasion, even from headteachers who apparently had a reputation similar to this one.

There really is a huge difference between the cognitive abilities and emotional awareness of a seven year old, compared to that of a ten year old. Can you really be that sure that any seven year old would really freely vote for such a thing, if they truly knew the consequences of their choice and that they wouldn't succumb to blackmail and pressure from those who are bigger and older than they are? Children of this age put an awful lot of trust in the adults who surround them and if their headteacher told that the little lamb will be going to a better place, where it can frolic and gambol in open fields and live on a cloud for all eternity, they would believe them.

This is nothing whatsoever to do with knowing where meat comes from. There are many different ways to show childen how this is achieved, but to make them choose whether to slaughter an animal, whom they know personally, I am sure that, if they were given the full facts, the decision would have had a very different outcome. This was about the headteacher imposing her extreme values upon the children, against the wishes of parents. I wonder how many of the children who where vegetarian were asked about whether the animal should be slaughtered.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Based on the catchment area for this school I would imagine many of the children knew first hand what raising & then slaughtering a Lamb for food would entail. Without the emotional baggage that has been attached to the whole episode by people who are anti meat eaters.


Would also be surprised if there were more than a handful of vegetarians in the whole school. Hardly right they should decide what happens for the majority.

Pets also have to be taken to the vet to be put to sleep due to illness. This is where parental emotional support is needed as if you bring the animal home for burial it could still be twitching for some time.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

flyboy , you keep denying the facts why?

the children DID vote
the children DID know what was going to happen to the lambs
the parents at the school DID also know the purpose of the exercise
the schools governing body DID approve the exercise

these facts cannot be denied they did happen wether you like it or not

and what "extreme values"has the teacher got ?
do you even know if their are any vegetarian children at the school and what has that got to do with anything anyway

there are other lessons that the children are learning as well besides the food chain ,what about caring for animals ,the cycle of life and death ,basic principles of democracy .The children have learned these lessons in a real world situation not the wishy washy way taught in inner city schools

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I blame Walt Disney for giving animals a lovely fluffy personality. I mean, what kid would vote yes to have Bambi killed? :)

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

which is why it shouldn't be done in school

and why there are opt outs for sex ed and relationship education

this is still for parents to decide

and in a school where basic maths even after intervention is still a problem its the last thing they should have been trying to introduce

home schooling is on the increase and a lot of that is to do with parents becoming increasingly fed up with being told what values their kids should be taught rather than schools sticking to teaching the core subjects

i seriously thought about it but think social interaction is as much a part of learning as the imparting of information but if schools continue to try to do this sort of thing I would reconsider

if and when mine are ready I will ( have already for the eldest ) explain and show what happens

( funny thing and remember i eat and have killed my own food very few are willing to show this to these or older kids ( and i think its an older kid thing ) exactly what happens in the abattoir )

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Do people not read this thread; this is about the fifth time this has been posted. ;)

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

There again my children managed very well with the death of their grandmother at the ages of 7 & 4. We were sharing the same house at the time and they knew she was not in the best of health. Was still very shocking.

Learning that something has to die in order that omnivores can eat meat is a valuable lesson particularly when healthy eating is being actively encouraged. Knowing what something really is, is vital.

People continue to underestimate the ability of children to cope with the unpleasant aspects of life and death. Persisting in attributing the same level of learned sentimentality as adults have to children, does nothing to teach youngsters to cope for themselves.

Would imagine the rearing of this lamb would involve some very practical arithmetic. From the initial purchase through to housing & feeding costs, followed by the value of the meat once sold & to calculate the profit.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

calculate the profit? Most hill farmers should be so lucky..

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

not arguing with any of that except where it should be taught

yes lots of children cope very well but not all do and it is their parents who make those choices

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

People have the right to be offended or upset by what this head teacher has done regardless of any oppossing view....

.....but I don't condone what some of the idiots on that Facebook group have said / done... that was totally unacceptable.

As usual people hear the extremes on either side and that ruins the actual debate here.

I still feel the children we're too young for this "lesson" and would have been more suitable for older children.

I'd of been traumatised at that age for sure.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Mmmmmm, hyperbole - rich coming from someone who called a school farm animal "a loved one"!:erm: So, if you find something, that's evidence - if someone else finds something to the contrary, that's hyperbole?
Anyway, if you will deign to accept something from the Daily Heil as evidence, this was printed in September last year when it originally all kicked off Re the school council - should it be abolished, as they, in your opinion, can be convinced to vote whichever way the school wants? And since the school hamster wasn't orginally bought to be raised and slaughtered as part of teaching the children about the food life-cycle, it would appear your old friend Mr Hyperbole is visiting again....

Strange how the only evidence you find credible is that which supports your viewpoint.


Perhaps if your search had been a bit simpler (why put "sheep" in it?), and put in "charman threats" (name of person & threat) you would have seen, in the first couple of links (I left out the Mail and the Mirror) -

Times Guardian On a related note, if anyone reading or taking part in this thread has been traumatised by the treatment of Marcus, they can leave a message here, a memorial to Marcus.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

They might have learned about negative numbers then ;)

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

no you wouldn't ,and how the hell would you know
you may have been traumatised if you had seen the lamb slaughtered which was not the case
this sort of attitude is exactly what's wrong imo with modern parenting ideas .Some people think we must at all costs protect the children ,don't let them see,hear or learn about anything that is a little unsavoury
i think children are protected far too much and not given enough credit for the ability to handle situations. For gods sake i used to watch my nan knecking chickens and we didn't live anywhere near a farm ,we lived in the black country in the 70's
so i must oh so traumatised ...absolute load of poppycock from overbearing and over protective parents

---------- Post added at 18:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------


what rubbish ,what absolute crap ,i'm going to sign up and leave my own personal poem

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

That statement puts you in the same group as the people who posted on the Facebook group :(

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

I'd know because I'm an animal lover and always have been. Who are you to question that? :confused:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

yeah so am i but i am also realistic and being a animal lover does not give anyone the right to hound a perfectly good teacher out of her job

and by the way you would not know if you were truly traumatised as that would be self diagnosis of a mental condition ,also that word is much overused by people who think a footballer who scores a winning goal is a hero ..wrong a child who takes part in raising a sheep is NOT traumatised when one day it is not there anymore ,they might be a tad upset but they will get over it if parents let them work it out for themselves and stop wrapping them in cotton wool

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

some wont get over it

it never bothered me but my mother still wont touch pork after seeing one killed as a child on a farm where she was brought up !

which is why it shouldn't be done in school it is not about cotton wool its about making a choice as a parent when its time for things for a particular child

lol most would laugh at me being called protective

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

that's the point though some people are behaving like the children saw the animal slaughtered ..they didn't they knew it was going to be because it had been talked about since the animal arrived

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

No, fourteen children voted. It is a lot easier to manipulate a small group of childen, than it is to control the whole school.

And how do you know this for sure?

Apparently not all of them.

Not relevant, seeing as it was unlikely to affect them personally.

These "facts" can clearly be challenged, without any evidence to support them.

The thought that she can ride roughshod over the feelings of seven year old children, is one extreme value I would have thought.

Come on, out of two hundred and thirty-five there are bound to be some. But then, going by assumptions being made here, is that the mother of one of the pupils is spearheading the campaign and she has been classed as an animal rights nutter.

There are other more effective ways of teaching about the circle of life, it doesn't have to involve the slaughter of the animal they have come to love and care for. If you belive that they should be taught this, why stop at voting on a slaughter. Why not take them to the abattoir and watch the animal bleed to death. Surely that would abate your oppostion to wishy-washy teaching.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

it doesn't mater whether they did or didnt either way some children are not going to take it well

which is why it shouldn't be done in school unless they get specific informed consent from every parent and child in the school

and as to seeing it killed IF this is really about understanding the food chain then that should be part of the exercise which again imho puts into the secondary school not not junior school

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

what more effective way is there of teaching than showing things first hand in real life where appropriate and i believe this was appropriate ..especially in a farming community

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Well said :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Actually thats how democracy works, the minorities do have a say.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Nothing about minorities there..

A minority appear to have a say in screwing up their children's(and others) education.They also have set out to hound a perfectly good and respected teacher out of her job by setting up a Facebook entry.

Hardly democratic.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I don't think anyone in this thread thinks that was right... I've already said that the freaks spoil it for the sane... the argument can be lost because of them :(

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

I'm finished with this now... there's nothing more to say. :sleep:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

not a perfectly good head teacher imho else she would have made sure everyone was onside BEFORE starting this exercise off ( i don't support using the internet to make hate sites but i would have used every legal channel to remove her from my kids school )

not her job to decide when how kids learn about this in this way, its the parents job

who seem damned if they leave it to the school as being condemned for not being involved with their kids education and damned if they do take an interest for being interfering

and they wonder why home schooling is rocketing

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

ditto

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Actually she is a very good teacher head hunted to turn a failing school around and IF you had bothered to even read any of the articles about this story you would have picked up on that.Up until this event she was doing a very fine job.

If only the few parents whom took umbrage had gone for home schooling..:rolleyes:

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

read the ofsted report and a lot of other stuff school still has a big problem just getting them to do simple maths

and as i said a good head would have got every one onside BEFORE doing this

last thing that school needed was this

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Agreed so let us hope that they can find some who is ready to be put through the meat grinder..or this school will close.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

I have to say, some of the posts in this thread are funny, in a Greek Tragedy sort of funny....

I see a lot of hysterical, over the top posts about how this incident must have traumatised a school full of children. Posted by members who seem to have a definate view on the rights and wrongs of raising animals for food.... I would suggest that far too many parents are too chickensnot to actually teel their kids the truth of where their meat products come from. thus leaving it to people like the head teacher of a rural school to teach her pupil's a bit of lifes truth....

If people don't have the bottle to teach their kids about the unplesantness (in their view), then you forfit the right to throw strop when another adult does it for you....

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Utter tosh. It is the parents' decision when and how this happens. Just as it is about any stage of life. It is the parents' decision to decide when a child is ready to learn about how life is created, just as much as it is to learn about how it ends.

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 ----------

It's a little convenient, for some, to now suddenly put so much store in the results of an OFSTED report.

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

And you keep overlooking the reported facts that all the parents were told, at inception of the project, the options and potential outcomes - some only objected after the event, rather than in a timely manner.

You really don't like democracy (a decision was agreed by the School Council, the teachers, and the governing body) when it doesn't agree with your viewpoint, do you?

Re: Headteacher Quits After Pet Lamb Slaughtered
 

Oh really ?

I think you give parents far too much credit for teaching their kids about certain aspects of life.... I remember my own parents encouraging me to read, play amd do many things from an early age that would broaden my horizons. Yet still they failed to educate me in any way about sex, or death. It wasn't until atleast 4th form (what is now called year 11) that I introduced to any information about reproduction or sex. And it wasn't until I was in the army, and seen the "Highway of Death" that I and my parents sat down and talked about death. Strangely, I doubt my own experiences in this regard is different from the vast majority of others who frequent these forums....