Cable Forum - Brickdust's rant

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Brickdust's rant

Pre apologies for the lenght of this post

Well I,ve debated with myself for months now and I have finally decided to abandon Virgin after 18yrs I think with cable, (1st Nynex then Cable & Wireless then NTL and finally Virgin Media) so as you can see I,ve been loyal to cable.
I,ve signed up to SKY, coming next week to start the installations.

Why am I leaving, there are a numbers of reasons, so where do I start,
here goes in no particular order,

SUPPORT.
Internet support can be absolutely awful, or none existent.
Tech. knowledge can be very sketchy to say the least (my apologies to the few good ones I have dealt with)
Please take note Virgin not all your customers have perfect hearing and I for one find it almost impossible to understand your personnel based abroad.

I don,t know if this story will ring a bell with anybody, but hopefully this will show what I mean. I,ve always had the top level of internet connection with cable with the exception of the curren 50meg. Some time back when the max available speed was 10meg I think, I upgraded to 20meg when it became available at a cost of Â£37.50 per month.
For approximately 2 years, numerous phone calls and visits from engineers,I argued with VM that there was something wrong with my connection as the max I could get with my new 20meg service was 8meg which was slower than I got with the 10meg service, finally they admitted there was something wrong but did not know what. I was promised but never recieved adequate compensation for this. Eventually A friend of mine who was a networking engineer came and had a look at my system and found the problem within an hour, I,ve no idea now what the problem was caused by but it was related to the modem I think. So out the window went my last ounce of confidence with Tech support.

COST
For the life of me I cannot work out how much I should be paying in comparison to other customers who seem to be on the same package as me. (by the way I,m on the xL package - I,m paying Â£88.90pm plus phone calls, I don,t have the adult channels) my monthly bill can therefore be over Â£100 easily.
Every time I look at different forums on different sites and compared to virgins own site information, people seem to be paying different amounts for the same packages. I can find about 4 or 5 different prices being paid for my package.
For example when I enquired about upgrading to the 50meg broadband package I told it would cost me another Â£10 per month, when you take into account I already pay Â£37.50per month for my 20meg connection that would make the 50meg Â£47.50 when if you look at Virgins own site the XL 20meg broadband is Â£20 and the XXL 50meg broadband is Â£28, which is Â£9.50 less than I,m already paying for a 20meg service.

And finally,
Because I recently signed up to a usenet provider and I no longer work I download a lot of the tv series I missed because of my work in civvy life and in the forces.
I got the following email from Virgin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Detrimental use of your broadband connection

As you know, we don't place any limits on how much data you can use on our broadband service. However, we've recently noticed an unusually large amount of data being transferred over your broadband connection between 9am and 9pm.

This is a problem because it is now having an adverse effect on the quality and speed of other customers' service in your area during the busiest times of the day. Under our Acceptable Use Policy we do reserve the right to take action in these rare circumstances, which affects less than 0.1% of our customers.

With this in mind we would ask you to move a large proportion of your uploading and downloading outside the busy 9am-9pm period. This will ensure you don't inadvertently affect the enjoyment of other users in your area.

If you're not sure why your broadband usage is so high during these times, try the following:

1. Check whether other members of your household are using your connection for uploading or downloading without your knowledge.
2. Make sure your wireless router is password protected and that you.ve got encryption switched on - if your connection isn't secure, you could be sharing your broadband with the rest of your street ( www.virginmedia.com/help/wireless ).
3. Make sure your PC security software is up to date and active. If you don't have any security software or yours isn't up to date, try using PCguard to keep your computer safe from viruses ( www.virginmedia.com/help/internetsecurity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
followed by a letter saying the exactly the same. When I phoned up about this I was basically told that I would not have this problem if I was on the 50meg broadband connection.

So as I see it, I can,t be detrimental to other users with my 20meg connection costing me Â£37.50 (which according to Virgins site should cost Â£20) but I can be detrimental to these same users with a 50meg connection which would cost me Â£47.50 (but according to Virgins site should cost me Â£28)
An absolutely crazy state of affairs.

So its of to the unknown with SKY,
At least the sky package I,ve got is the equivalent to Virgins
with the following additions if want to put it that way
I get a Sky digi box plus a Sky+HD box with the 35 HD channels in comparison to Virgins 7 channels.
My package includes free calls to all Uk landlines, all week as I understand it.
Plus my 20meg broadband is not subject to limits or restrictions (again as I understand it - hope I,m not proved wrong)

But at the end of the day cost was the overriding factor
My new package with Sky Â£66 for 6 months then Â£76 per month plus the initial Â£50 installation fee. For a better phone package unrestricted broadband package and a tv package with a far better HD package.
All compared to the Â£100 plus I could pay Virgin

Anyway thats my rant, Just hope I,ve made the right decision.

Re: Brickdust,s rant

This isn't 'News', so moved.

Re: Brickdust,s rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickdust (Post 34953422)

Plus my 20meg broadband is not subject to limits or restrictions (again as I understand it - hope I,m not proved wrong) .

I have just dumped sky myself, picture always breaking up in bad rain or heavy cloud cover had sky engineers out 4 times to fix the problem they never did, hope you like loads of repeats of films and loads of adverts on the other channels it seems like you are watching adverts with some programs thrown in lol not the other way around .
As for their 20 meg broadband the most you may get will be around 6-8 meg if you are lucky enough to live next door to the exchange, hope you made the right decision I have when i said enough is enough with sky

Re: Brickdust,s rant

Sky are not as 'unlimited' as they would have you believe:-

Quote:

SKY BROADBAND CONNECT TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT POLICY

In addition to the monthly Usage Cap, this Traffic Management Policy applies to you if you take Sky Broadband Connect.

Excessive use during peak time

We will monitor your Sky Broadband usage during peak times from 5pm to Midnight each day. This is when the majority of customers use the network and when speeds could be affected by the excessive usage of a minority. If we consider that your usage is excessive during peak times we may slow down your connection for the rest of the day so that it has less affect on others. Only a very small number of customers will be affected by this (less than 2%). If you are affected, we will only slow down the speed you can get during peak times for applications which use a lot of bandwidth (for example, streaming, peer-to-peer and newsgroups) and which have a negative effect on other customers. You will still be able to use Sky Broadband to do other things normally such as browsing, email, instant messaging and VOIP. There are no restrictions in place outside of peak times.

Traffic management of our Network

To ensure we provide a sustainable quality broadband service to our customers, we continuously monitor and efficiently manage the Sky Network as a whole. To do this, during peak times (from 5pm to Midnight each day), we may slow down the speed that all Sky Broadband Connect customers can get on certain applications which we consider use up a lot of bandwidth (for example peer-to-peer and newsgroups) and which have a negative affect on other customers There are no restrictions in place for applications such as browsing, email, streaming, instant messaging and VOIP during peak times. We do not put restrictions on our network outside of peak times.

Link: http://packages.sky.com/terms/terms_skybroadband.aspx

They all do this to one degree or another :mad: I just hope your new ADSL connection is as stable as your cable was, in my area we are too far from the exchange to get comparable speeds from ADSL :(

Anyway good luck and let us know how you get on :handshake

Re: Brickdust,s rant

Good luck with Sky.

I enjoy my sky+ it's great but i'd never go with them for internet

Re: Brickdust's rant

Tony that is incorrect, note your link:

Quote:

SKY BROADBAND CONNECT TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT POLICY

Only the Sky Broadband Connect non-unbundled package is shaped. There is no shaping on any of the LLU packages and no downloading limits, at all, on Sky Broadband Unlimited.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings (Post 34953496)

Tony that is incorrect, note your link:

Only the Sky Broadband Connect non-unbundled package is shaped. There is no shaping on any of the LLU packages and no downloading limits, at all, on Sky Broadband Unlimited.

Are you sure??

Quote:

2. Using Sky Broadband

(a) Sky Broadband is for private use by you and members of your household only. It must not be used for any commercial or business purpose.

(b) You will be registered as the primary user but you can nominate additional users provided they are members of your household and they consent. Any additional user must also provide a user name and password which must be different to yours.

(c) You are responsible for the security and proper use of your username and password and you must not disclose either. You are also responsible for the security and proper use of each additional userâ€™s username and password. You are also responsible for all activities that occur under these usernames and passwords. If you know or suspect that your username or password or any username or password of your additional users has been compromised, or you suspect or become aware of any other breach of security, you must tell us immediately. In these circumstances, you must also ensure that any such username or password is changed as soon as possible.

(d) If we believe that there has been, or is likely to be, a breach of security of your username or password or of the username or password of any of your additional users, we may suspend such usernames and passwords and require that any or all of them are changed.

(e) You and any additional user must not use any logos or trade marks of Sky, the Sky Group Companies or Skyâ€™s processors in any way which could damage or undermine the ownerâ€™s reputation.

(f) We may require you to reimburse us for any reasonable and foreseeable losses, costs and expenses which we incur as a direct result of the misuse of Sky Broadband or your Wireless Router by you or anyone you have allowed to use Sky Broadband.

(g) If your Line is disconnected for any reason, you will lose your connection to Sky Broadband and your line provider (if this isn't Sky) may not automatically reinstate Sky Broadband after reinstating your Line. There may be a delay in being reconnected to Sky Broadband. If a re-connection fee is payable, we will tell you the amount of this fee before charging you. You will be charged for Sky Broadband throughout this period, unless the disconnection or delay in reconnection has been caused by us or our agents.

(h) To protect our network and maintain quality of service for all our users we can temporarily or permanently control or restrict your online activities via Sky Broadband where such activities may have a detrimental effect on other customersâ€™ quality of service and it is reasonable for us to do so (e.g. sending "spam" Messages or hosting a website).

(i) We may modify or temporarily suspend Sky Broadband, or part of it, to the extent necessary for us to carry out maintenance, technical repair, enhancement or emergency work. We will try to minimise the impact of this on your use of Sky Broadband and we will restore Sky Broadband to you as soon as we can. Where possible, we will notify you if this occurs between the hours of 6a.m. and Midnight and is due to last for more than 1 hour

.

Same link as before I just thought the Management Policy was more appropiate

Re: Brickdust's rant

Good luck with Sky.

I have the Sky+ and am completely satisfied with the service.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony. (Post 34953514)

Are you sure??

Same link as before I just thought the Management Policy was more appropiate

I'm positive. Without that paragraph you can pump out spam or host a dodgy website. Still no-one has been warned for high usage on Sky Unlimited or kicked off the service.

In Virgin's case I'm sure they just pick these people out of a hat to send the nasty-o-gram to. I know people who hammer the living urine out of their services and are left alone.

Re: Brickdust's rant

I have been with 3 LLU providers (UKOnline,Sky,O2) and have NEVER been restricted in anyway. The only time i have been restricted is with cable and when you can pay as much as 3 times more for the product it is a bit of a joke really. When Virgins FUP kicks in i only would get 1MB more than i get now and if you compare my puny 4meg connection to Virgins 10MB connection during the day my connection is better and cheaper as i have no FUP to worry about.

Virgins advertising should really be enjoy Superfast Cable Broadband for 1 Hour during peak times then we will bring your connection down to ADSL levels just to remind you what you would be getting.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickdust (Post 34953422)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Detrimental use of your broadband connection

As you know, we don't place any limits on how much data you can use on our broadband service. However, we've recently noticed an unusually large amount of data being transferred over your broadband connection between 9am and 9pm.

This is a problem because it is now having an adverse effect on the quality and speed of other customers' service in your area during the busiest times of the day. Under our Acceptable Use Policy we do reserve the right to take action in these rare circumstances, which affects less than 0.1% of our customers.

With this in mind we would ask you to move a large proportion of your uploading and downloading outside the busy 9am-9pm period. This will ensure you don't inadvertently affect the enjoyment of other users in your area.

If you're not sure why your broadband usage is so high during these times, try the following:

1. Check whether other members of your household are using your connection for uploading or downloading without your knowledge.
2. Make sure your wireless router is password protected and that you.ve got encryption switched on - if your connection isn't secure, you could be sharing your broadband with the rest of your street ( www.virginmedia.com/help/wireless ).
3. Make sure your PC security software is up to date and active. If you don't have any security software or yours isn't up to date, try using PCguard to keep your computer safe from viruses ( www.virginmedia.com/help/internetsecurity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
followed by a letter saying the exactly the same. When I phoned up about this I was basically told that I would not have this problem if I was on the 50meg broadband connection.

I think the bad bit is if you ask what the threshold was that you hit to receive that letter they will NOT tell you. Your unlimited service has a limit but your not allowed to know it.

Re: Brickdust's rant

i've haven't been on a adsl service for years, but i tried to get my nextdoor neighbour onto virgin broadband but as he already had sky tv he decided to stay with them for BB anyway to cut a long story short he opted for the sky unlimited worst move he ever made, he barely gets 4meg at most of the time and quite often it drops to around 1 meg (although we don't live next to the exchange about 1.3miles following the roads, about 2 months ago he got a letter from sky warning him of his high usage of his "unlimited" service and that they would start to cap his service if he carried on, since then i have loaded some software on his computer to find out how much he is downloading and it averages out around 1.3gb per day!! now i don't call this excessive by any means to which he has sent the proof and a snotty reply back to sky but will be moving everything (tv,phone and bb) to virgin after his contract runs out in a couple of months time.
so it goes to prove that sky's so called "unlimited" service is far from it anyway i don't think anyone truely offers an "unlimited" service but at least with virgin generally you get roughly the speed you pay for in the first place.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Good luck with sky HD i have it and its fantastic and the picture quality even during bad weather if everything is installed as it should be is fantastic , during all that heavy snow even when my dish was covered i still got a fantastic picture , so for sure sky tv is better for me than Victim media ! although VM net is better ( when it works )

Re: Brickdust's rant

Apologies for posting in wrong place.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

Reference sky,s broadband usage policy I did double check with them and was assured by a customer service manager, whom I insisted on speaking to, that as I was signing up to the unlimited broadband package that there was no restrictions. So at the end of the day I will have to wait and see. And also hope that I am pretty close to my exchange in Oldham.

As I said in my previous post my main consideration was cost and I suppose level of service after re-reading it. Must admit I,m abit surprised I have had no comments from readers of the post reference the passage:
"So as I see it, I can,t be detrimental to other users with my 20meg connection costing me Â£37.50 (which according to Virgins site should cost Â£20) but I can be detrimental to these same users with a 50meg connection which would cost me Â£47.50 (but according to Virgins site should cost me Â£28)
An absolutely crazy state of affairs."

Especially since I have found out that if I was not a virgin customer in the first place I could sign up for the 50meg broadband without a virgin line for Â£38 per month. Which is only 50p more than I am paying now for a 20meg service, please see (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...ct.do?id=15208)
I feel I,ve been ripped of by VM over this.

Re: Brickdust's rant

The discounts were automatically applied to people's accounts taking their prices down.

I have a feeling you're misreading your bill, especially the bits with a minus sign (-) in front of them.

You've had my comment on the whole 'detrimental usage' thing, they appear to be pulling the numbers for this out of their hindmost.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Did you speak to VM retentions - interested to know if they offerred anything to make you stay?

re: Sky broadband - I found it the most reliable of the ADSL services I had - however was at the end of a longline from the exchange was 2 m/b was the best I could get hence the switch to VM

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickdust (Post 34953756)

Reference sky,s broadband usage policy I did double check with them and was assured by a customer service manager, whom I insisted on speaking to, that as I was signing up to the unlimited broadband package that there was no restrictions.

I remember asking the same before I joined Orange (after Demon's home office restricted me :rolleye:)

Four month later I started getting warning letters telling me that I was breaking thier FUP (fair usage policy) with no comments as to how much I was downloading :( I hence restricted myself to 40gb a month (metered) apparently this was also breakign thier fup and they restricted me to half a meg down in the daytime..

There's no such thing as unlimited and any ISP will restict you one way or another as thier FUP bypasses all promises and is in 99.9999% of contracts

Re: Brickdust's rant

Hi Broadbindings ref reading my bill correctly, after 18yrs dealing with cable I can assure you I know how my bill works, and anyway I,ve not said that is the problem, what I,ve been trying to get across is why the difference I seem to have paying for my 20meg service compared to the advertised cost of the 20meg and 50meg services.
Hi Pog66, Spoke to Vm retention department a couple of times but found they could not really do anything for me.
Hi Kymmy, I understand that there's no such thing as unlimited, so I ask again why should I be put in the situation I mentioned in my previous post,
"So as I see it, I can,t be detrimental to other users with my 20meg connection costing me Â£37.50 (which according to Virgins site should cost Â£20) but I can be detrimental to these same users with a 50meg connection which would cost me Â£47.50 (but according to Virgins site should cost me Â£28)
An absolutely crazy state of affairs." when you take into account that when I phoned up VM I was told I could download at the maximum speed as much as I wanted with no restrictions whatsoever if I changed to the 50meg tarrif, when VM are basically telling me with this statement get 50meg and forget any restrictions downloading and effects I might have on other local users, when they have previously told me that my 20meg usage is affecting other users. So according to Virgin way of thinking their 50meg tarrif is unlimited or should I say thats the impression I get from this.
It would be very interesting to find out how many 50meg users have had a
"Detrimental use of your broadband connection" email or letter.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickdust (Post 34953808)

It would be very interesting to find out how many 50meg users have had a
"Detrimental use of your broadband connection" email or letter.

Fairy snuff, you're being misbilled though, you should not be paying that price.

I would guess none, given that they seem to be throwing these letters at whoever they feel like at the time while people on 50 seem quite ok downloading TB a month and people on the same platform on 20 are getting bothered for using considerably less.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickdust (Post 34953808)

An absolutely crazy state of affairs." [/I] when you take into account that when I phoned up VM I was told I could download at the maximum speed as much as I wanted with no restrictions whatsoever if I changed to the 50meg tarrif, when VM are basically telling me with this statement get 50meg and forget any restrictions downloading and effects I might have on other local users, when they have previously told me that my 20meg usage is affecting other users. So according to Virgin way of thinking their 50meg tarrif is unlimited or should I say thats the impression I get from this.
It would be very interesting to find out how many 50meg users have had a
"Detrimental use of your broadband connection" email or letter.

This could be because the 50 meg tier uses a different system DOCSIS 3.0 the lower tiers use DOCSIS 1.0 or even DOCSIS 1.1. The more techie amongst us will be able to explain the differences much better than me :)

Re: Brickdust's rant

Taken from another site....

I read recently that this was being looked into by one of the many European "we spunk your money" Departments. Basically it might actually be a good thing with them this time as they were saying that a company is not allowed to offer a service at a set fee then at any given time reduce the service that the customer is paying for. It was along the lines that if the company wished to reduce any service then a partial refund must be given, they are not allowed to take full payment for only a percentage of the service expected.

###################################

Many thanks for your mail below.

As someone who spends well over Â£100 per month with Virgin media, I find the contents of your mail quite surprising.

I originally contracted for a 20mb line due to the fact that I was a heavy user.

I accept (very begrudgingly) your ridiculous traffic shaping policy which reduces my paid for 20mb broadband to 5mb.

I will not accept your patronising request to request my usage to certain times of the day. I am a customer in good faith, I pay for my usage, I expect to use my account as and when I like.

Rest assured, if I receive another mail in the same tone as the one attached below, I will cancel all my Virgin media services immediately.

Yours Faithfully

Re: Brickdust's rant

Nice email, but why post it here?

:confused:

Re: Brickdust's rant

It's a suggested reply for Brickdust to send to VM.

Re: Brickdust's rant

Posted this here because the op has recvd a letter re "Detrimental us of your broadband" and thought i would thats the beauty of forums....

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauls9 (Post 34953995)

It's a suggested reply for Brickdust to send to VM.

OIC, thanks..

Re: Brickdust's rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickdust (Post 34953808)

Dont count on getting 20Mb from ADSL, unless you live in the exchange.
I am counting the days until Virgin upgrade the network here so we can get broadband, the ADSL here is poor. Varies between 2Mb and 5Mb, and I am 1.5 miles from the exchange. Loads of engineer visits but no total fix. Its just how it is with 60 year old cables. I did sign up with Sky BB in the begining, all I got was 6 weeks with no internet due to no spare capacity in the exchange!

Virgin will save me Â£10/Â£20 per month and hopefully give me a better service, Sky is great if you are a new customer, you get all the offers, If the've got you then you get nothing!

Dont get me wrong, Sky for some is great, just dont expect everything the sales people have told you.

You shouldnt be paying so much to Virgin and getting the hassle you are getting anyway!