Ban the burkha ?
 

MUSLIM women should be banned from wearing the burkha and other veils that cover their faces in *public, the UK *Independence Party said yesterday.


Nigel Farage, the party’s former leader, said the move would prevent extremists imposing their culture – including Sharia law – on Britain.

The Euro MP told the BBC’s Politics Show: “I can’t go into a bank with a motorcycle *helmet on. I can’t wear a balaclava going round the District and Circle line.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...tain-says-UKIP

http://www.neurope.eu/articles/98617.php

ban it or just live with it .what do you think ???? and why .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Ban it.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Should we ban Christian Nuns wearing their clothes too?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Or any form of religious dress. ??

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No it doesn't hide the face.

I'm not Catholic

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If they start allowing motorcyclists to wear a full face helmet when they enter a bank, then of course the should be no need to ban a full face veil that possibly can disguise your identity.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Lets ban hoodies, and crash helmits too... lets ban hats aswell

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

How many women in the UK actually wear a Bhurka or veil? According to the link posted it's 200,000. Wiki says there's around 2.4,000,000 Muslims in the UK, so that would mean 1 in 6 muslim women wear a bhurka or veil. Frankly, I find that hard to believe.

I mean, it's not as if women in Bhurkas are a common sight. Not around here anyway.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I dont remember the last time i saw anyone wearing it, and i live in London

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I've seen plenty of them in West London.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The wearing of any garment that can be construed as deliberately trying to hide your identity will be looked on with suspicion by most people, be it a hoodie, helmet, hat or veil.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

..or wig, or glasses?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

They do not block facial recognition software.:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8464124.stm

According to the interview with nigel farage there are 200,000 and he got that number from 'experts', very convincing.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Prevent extremists from imposing their culture? You mean by, for example, dictating to people what clothes they are allowed to wear?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Clothing is not the issue but covering of the face could be a security issue.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Hope they are not the same experts that Blair used for his lie to get us into a war :LOL:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You visit some shopping precincts and you'll find that is exactly what they do.

---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:14 ----------

You've got to be joking on that one.

Personally if find religion oppresive especially this kind of oppresion by having women, (mainly of course) wearing such clothing to restrict there appearance and personallity, and yes there are alot of people who could wear clothing alot better than they do BUT AT LEAST THAT IS THERE CHOICE regardless of my opinion.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

come to newcastles west end ,plenty there ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

[QUOTE=sollp;34947507]You visit some shopping precincts and you'll find that is exactly what they do.[COLOR="Silver"]



correct you don't go shopping around here with your hoodie up or helmet on .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The majority of retail outlets already do

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It's not about dictating what people can wear it's covering the face in security sensitive areas like banks and government buildings ,just think of the possibilities for id fraud and not just from muslims

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You see that is the beauty of living in a free society,(or not depending on what they are wearing and how) no one is being dictated to, i'm not saying they should be banned from wearing a burka, i'm saying there shouldn't be an atmosphere of fear by forcing, dictating to wear such a garment.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

it also makes cctv useless -no face to id .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I thought it was the fact that not many of the 4 million CCTV cameras are actually monitored that made them useless......;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

exactly ,next i get caught on camera speeding hope i'm wearing a burkha:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No good unless its covering the reg.:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

A burkha can make a man into a woman.
you could have a man pretending to be a woman in a girls/women only toilet/changing room.

there's all sorts of security implications involved from just the wearing of a burkha. it effectively hides a person completely.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No, that's gender re-assignment surgery that does that....;)

Men dressing as women - that could never happen in Britain...
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/01/36.jpg

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You should try Sparkbrook/Small Heath in Brum :)

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

You can tell us all about it another thread, if you want :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

That would be preaching to the converted, Gary.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

[QUOTE=Gary L;34947553]You should try Sparkbrook/Small Heath in Brum :)

Last Thursday, an armed robber pushing a child's buggy and disguised as a woman in a burka went to the Friends Jewellers in Smethwick, West Midlands.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1263845088

not wrong there

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...ds/7309548.stm

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I could not agree more!!, as i said in another thread they expect us to wear a burkha, this is our country and they should follow our rules, or maybe bring in the rules lol

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Better ban police uniforms as well, then, on that premise - Securitas
And clowns' uniforms

And postmen's uniforms

And Humphrey Bogart costumes

And Winnie the Pooh

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You're getting hysterical again ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Maybe for the sake of this man's future freedom we should ban the wearing of all clothes.;)

Naked Rambler

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Shops should treat wearers of the Burkha exactly the same as those wearing any other item that conceals the face such as hoodies or motorcycle crash helmets, a person should not be allowed on the premises wearing a Burkha if other forms of concealing the face are not allowed.

As a matter of courtesy I always remove my motorcycle helmet at garages and any shop before I enter. Also I would not be expected to enter my workplace wearing a crash helmet. A work colleague wearing a flip front crash helmet has been asked at a garage to remove it entirely for security reasons even though it shows his face.

My local pub makes people remove any hats or caps as they enter the premises for cctv purposes, I would expect them to request the same of someone wearing a Burkha.

I see no reason why there should be any exclusions to the rule, although perhaps the government should assure shop keepers that they will not face any action if they refuse entry to someone wearing a Burkha.

If this happened and the rule applied to all, the Burkha would perhaps not need to be banned.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Maybe for the sake of this thread we should stick to the topic , which is not naked men .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Actually I am sticking to the topic..which is where do we draw the line when it comes to banning things.Surely in a society that doesn't allow one man what he regards as his right to wear no clothes we then go to the other extreme and ban people from covering up their entire bodies by choice..

The whole stance is utterly ridiculous and is just another means of sticking it to the Muslims yet again..:rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Actually you're not. it's about banning the burkha. just like bringing up children in general isn't about Deborah the servant of God :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No you lot just don't like your prejudices being challenged..and the Naked Rambler is just the opposite side of a ridiculous argument that everyone who hides their face is a terrorist.:rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Maybe some think of the security of man, woman and child more than they care about being accused of prejudices :rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Name anyone has been attacked and killed in this country by anyone wearing a burkha at the time.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

but what's wrong in treating them same as everyone else ? why should we give them special treatment (in this case )

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I refer you to post 43

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

does attempted murder count

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing-suspect.do

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Why attacked or killed? why do we even think of terrorism in relation to wearing a burkha?
all the points that have been made about the wearing of one have been to do with toilets/banks**/cctv. forget that they're muslims. just pretend that they're ninja hoods.

** I know they don't use our banks.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Name anyone wearing a Deerstalker hat who has done the same?

If the hat hides the face from cctv the user is asked to remove it, or they are ejected from the premises.

One rule for everyone and there can be no claims of prejudice or favouritism.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Don't think I've heard anyone in those articles demanding that Deerstalkers be banned..Neither are motorcycle helmets or balaclavas being asked to be banned..just the burkha.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my...ate-for-m.html



"Two robbers – dressed in full-length women’s burkhas – pistol-whipped a post office manager during a daylight raid in Bradford. The attackers bundled their 38-year-old victim into the premises as he opened the shop. They brutally struck him on the head with the butt of a handgun when he was unable to open a safe. But the raiders then panicked and fled empty-handed when they saw a customer peering through the window of the post office, in Oak Lane, Manningham." See article below



another source http://thelambethwalk.blogspot.com/2...asian-man.html


Police are searching for a burkha-clad man who helped steal designer watches worth £150,000 in an armed robbery today.
The man and two accomplices, armed with a handgun and an axe, burst into Michael Jones Jewellers on the High Street in Banbury, Oxfordshire, at about 2.20pm.
They threatened four members of staff, a man and three women, with their weapons before making off with Rolex, Cartier and Breitling watches.
A man was waiting outside for the three suspects in a black Audi, which was later found abandoned.
Staff at the shop told police the offenders, including the one wearing the burkha, were all male.

plenty more where they came from

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Plenty of robbers wear stockings masks as well..are we going to ban those articles of clothing as well? :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

in certain places they are

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

In my post #37 I have suggested there may be no need to ban the Burkha if the person wearing it is treated exactly the same as anyone using any other device that covers their face. (Crash Helmet, hoodie, balaclavas etc)

The outcome would be simple, in places where motorcycle helmets, balaclavas and hoodies are not allowed, the burkha would also not be allowed.

Or is there a train of thought by some, that the Burkha for some strange reason should be treated differently to any other headgear?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

But they didn't walk down the street blending in with other people wearing stockings on their head. they didn't walk away with the stockings on their head and blend back in again with all the other stocking heads. :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

they already are in banks/post offices and other sensitive areas especially when worn over the face :D

all we are saying is that burkas should be banned in some areas for obvious reasons without the fear of muslims shouting racism .They do not need to wear them other than personal choice or because the fanatic that they married forces them to

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I wonder if the same some were to mind if we all were to start wearing burkhas. and we all called ourselves John :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Actually I don't want ANY item of clothing banned.The clothing used in criminal activities aren't any more responsible than the baseball bat is responsible for some idiot smashing it over someone's head.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

muslim is not a race .;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

you must agree though that if someone walks into a bank with a helmet on then at least the cashier will view it with suspicion and probably raise the alarm before anyone is shot

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

you can claim racism if you're a different shade to the offender :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

you know what i mean ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Some of the comments l have read on this thread are stupid, the Burka should be banned, for the simple reason, that is can be 'threatening' to people, today l saw ten of them waiting for a bus, and you could not see there face,

I read an article by a muslim, that there is no rule in there book, that says they must wear it, and she feels that the burka, should be banned, and that is from a muslim woman.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Shops and garages ban certain items being worn for the safet of their employees. What are your thoughts on a shop including the Burkha to the list of items that are not allowed to be worn due to safety reasons, because they conceal the face the same as the crash helmet, balaclava and hoodie?

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

It is when there are 72 virgins waiting:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I always get them to say cheese for the camera Arthur. the one that's reluctant you keep an eye on her. or him ;) :) :jk: :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Who said they are all terrorist's, no one has said that except yourself.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Sorry ... you felt threatened by a group of middle-aged women you saw waiting at the bus stop?

What are you, a man or a mouse? ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Point of information - he wasn't wearing a burqa at the time. he tried to set off the bomb; he wore one later when trying to escape

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

Even for you, that's complete bolleaux. (and having a smiley on the end doesn't make it, or you, less offensive).

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I can't believe I even bothered opening this thread to read it, I should have known better.....

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

This is an interesting read

http://www.islam-watch.org/M.Hussain...im-Denials.htm

The part the worries me is this

So much for 'Muslims have a choice' then

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Why not, Chris?

If you cannot tell if they are a woman or indeed a man and there are ten of them, why is it unnatural to feel threatened?

What is to say that Arthur was not on the way back from the bank with a considerable sum of cash for example?

If I was in that scenario, I would certainly feel uneasy.

:confused:

(awaits being beaten down by your much better debating skillz)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Why? do you have to be a completely different colour?
People play the offensive card as much as the race card. almost overtaking the where there's blame theirs a claim card.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

maybe they should ban police uniforms first

http://www.themissinglist.co.uk/poli...ly-bournemouth

http://www.themissinglist.co.uk/poli...drive-sleaford

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/47..._teenage_girl/

http://www.northantset.co.uk/news/Bo...-on.5912240.jp

i realy cant see that the burka is any more of a threat to security or non identification than many other more used methods the main one of which is just plain old confidence in what you are doing

would you be forcing transvestites to reveal they are men at the shop ?

and even realy for all make up to be removed

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1771350.html

if i was a muslim intent on blowing up a super market i think i would arive as a white bnp member ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

yeah and this is what that verse actually says

[24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.


spot the difference

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

There are strict Muslims. but then you have some that just want to be 'normal'
I'd say personally that it's the teenage girls that want to be normal.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Anything that is intended to cover the face and be used to prevent a positive identification of a person should be banned, no ifs or buts can realistically be used in defence of deliberately hiding your face in public.

As for Arthurs crowd of women, they could have been of any age group and of any gender because the veil disguises the face, also a gang of women can just as easily attack a person.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Hmmm interesting but you forgot the notes

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

it's all down to how religious texts have been interpreted there are two different quotes from the same verse in the same book and they can be read totally different depending on how strict your teaching has been

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If l see females where they are wearing the burkas, it drives me mad, as l cannot understand them wearing it, l was told, it was there husbands don't like them to be seen by other men, can't be that bad looking can they.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Been to Tower Hamlets recently?

Didn't think so :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Me too. Shoot me next time..and I'll return the favour.;)

---------- Post added at 01:03 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

Look Folks Farage isn't saying the burkha should just be banned in banks and such places.He's saying it should be banned in all public spaces and in private spaces as well.

Now as far as I'm aware there is no ban on deerstalkers,balaclavas,stockings,hoodies and motorcycle helmets in all public spaces and private spaces at this present time nor does Farage actually ask for them to be banned as well.

So this is aimed purely against Muslim women.

Now I don't like the idea of the burkha and think it shouldn't be forced on anyone..however I don't think anyone should be banned from wearing them if they choose.

Mind I can't see what the fuss is about with the Naked Rambler either.Why should anyone be forced to wear clothes if they don't want to?

After all I don't have to look...:rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If say they don't ban them as long as you take them off in public places where concealing your identity is either a threat or a security risk. would they? would that still go against their culture?

Until everyone decided to wear one.

Think of the little boys and girls. somebody has to.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It's the usual "It doesn't directly affect me but I disagree with it so ban it" crowd.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Well I'll try to be gentle ... ;)

I think the fact that you even pose the question, "how do you know they're not men?" demonstrates the ludicrous depths the debate has sunk to. And by that I don't mean you personally are dragging it down, but that this is where we as a nation have come to, and it's a sad thing.

Stop and think about it for a minute. We are talking about an item of female attire. Why is it reasonable to even ask whether a man might be hiding underneath it? Why would a man be doing that? Has a security guard ever had his cash delivery stolen by a robber disguised as a muslim woman? And if that has ever happened, what proportion of offences were committed that way, compared to more traditional means of surprising and disguising, such as roaring up alongside him in a Ford Cortina wearing a balaclava?

If Arthur had been carrying a substantial amount of cash, I would have expected him to have been alert for all the more common ways that someone might try to steal it from him to the extent that a load of burkha-wearing women at the bus stop shouldn't have made him any more alert than he already was.

You are right, by the way, it is not unnatural to feel threatened, but I think people need to face up to the actual reason why they feel threatened. If you are made uneasy about a woman in a burkha, it's just plain old cultural unease that arises from an encounter with the unfamiliar. That's not shameful or racist, it's just human. But instead of trying to displace those feelings and turn them into righteous indignation ("There could be anyone under there! It might be a man out to blow me up or rob me!"), why not use them as a vehicle to de-mystify what is unfamiliar. We all have access to the internet, there's plenty of background reading you could do.

At the end of it all, you don't have to believe the burkha is a good thing for a woman - I certainly don't - but you might just understand why she's wearing it, and accept her right to do so.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Sums it all up, hits the nail right on the head :clap:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

People cared about the welfare of the foxes, Russ.

---------- Post added at 09:43 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Not if she's wearing it to be oppressive, surely :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think banning things should be banned.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Foxes can still be hunted

To be honest I've never ever heard of a Muslim woman wearing a burka to be oppressive.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I'm sure there are some that do. if it's not them that are, then it can be the husband that makes her wear it for that reason.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Yes, I agree. Islamic experts such as yourself are rarely wrong on such matters.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I know.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Having spoken to my sister who works with abused women, she has told me that some women she deals with were forced to wear revealing items of clothing in their relationships, by their partners. Shall we, based on your point above, ban high heels and mini skirts?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Is that inside or outside the home? wouldn't that be offensive to other Muslims?
I find that hard to believe if it's true. it's quite shocking.

No way! :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Why do you think I'm talking about muslim women? Are you saying non muslim men can't force women to wear clothes? I said my sister works with abused women - I didn't mention their religious backgrounds. You really have a thing against muslims don't you.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Him and a few others. Current Affairs is pretty much the Muslim Bashing forum. :erm:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I had an idea you weren't talking about Muslims. I thought you had to be to be commenting about the oppressive thing in Muslim culture.
now I know it was a trick question I feel tricked :D

Ooh, he's off :erm: :rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Thankyou for taking the time to reply. I think the point I was trying to make was that unfortunately some, not all, people are less than honest in this day and age and therefore may use this as a way of disguising themselves. If I remember correctly, was there not a case where a wanted man used one of these to evade airport security?

Whilst I agree with your point about the Cortina and balaclavas, I think that in the current climate of fear etc people could use the aforementioned item of womens clothing to commit crime. Maybe in a way that will allow them to go unchallenged until it is too late for fear of being accused as islamophobic / racist etc.

I'll go back to lurking now... ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I would say that wasn't really the case. if you study the subjects then you'll notice it's the most debated. with a lot of people not actually debating or giving their opinion on the subject in question.

most just taking offence for someone else and throwing racist accusations around about other OP's that are willing to discuss and debate the subject. :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

There are constantly topics commenting on Muslims and Islam in a negative light. Just do a search for Muslim on the forum and you'll see what I mean. As soon as this topic ends another one will be started. At any one time there seems to be a ongoing topic, sometimes more, about something negative involving Muslims.

Was it only yesterday/Sunday you started the topic about the loophole for Islamic Schools which was actually a loophole for any school whose pupils only attended a certain amount of hours?

You'll find most of these people aren't 'taking offence for other people' but are themselves offended at the constant vilification of a entire group of people based on their religion.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

i would agree with that statement ,a Burka can be used as a tool of the trade for some criminals ,the same as a balaclava,crash helmet or mask ,that does not mean it should be banned outright the same as crash helmets ,balclavas and masks haven't been outright, just in sensitive areas were face covering would be seen as suspicious behaviour .There are plenty of crimes commited with the criminal using a burka as a diguise because they know that ,that is what they can get away with at the moment