British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8411214.stm

This has enraged me.I'm not travelling anywhere myself but I'm thinking of those like my niece who lives and works in Brussels who may well not be able to get home for Christmas and see her family..:mad:

It's cynical and it's disgusting.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

With loads of people being made redundant, not getting pay rises, or taking pay cuts I think they are extracting the urine.

BA cabin staff get more than any other cabin staff.

If they strike all customers should get a full refund plus any losses they suffer (one guy is going somewhere exotic to get married).

Striking for more money in the current climate id byind a joke.

Sack the lot.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

can she not use eurostar?

It runs from Brussels to London?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

while the planes are grounded there not destroying mother earth
and that's a positive for me .

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Hmmm, the country's deep in recession and BA's losing money hand over fist. How best to preserve our living? I know, let's go on strike and make sure our employer loses even more money, resulting in more of us getting told we no longer have a job to go to.

Muppets.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

The only good thing is that BA don't have to pay them while on they'll on strike.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

They'll just use alternative airlines or fly later. No trees will be saved.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Unions why do you think your GOD.


What a bunch of numpties.

I have just stopped my payments to the CWU last month because of the way they are constantly looking for ways to force a strike :mad:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I dare say she could but then so will everyone else trying to get home or go home to Europe..Less planes will force other travellers onto Eurostar or the ferries

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

When you have a strike you usually have a reasonably-small undercurrent of support. I'm yet to find anyone who supports this outside of the union and the CC. PPrune is quite anti-strike.

Judging by the amount of people saying they will refuse to use BA (albeit not their fault per se) is quite astounding.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Thank God I already booked my Eurostar ticket.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

i have a boat if anyone wants to pay hideous amounts of money to get to or from yerp :)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

BA Humbug?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

No wonder why the economy is the way it is. I am sick to death of people striking in this country, we seem to be world class in striking. People, shutup do your job, get on with it. Thats not directed at people here, BA staff

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Presumably these people going on strike will enjoy their dole money. Because that's what will happen as no company loosing so much money can sit idle and do nothing. I just hope that their loosing their jobs because they went on strike would be treated as having resigned from employment such that they can't get the dole for a while.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8414306.stm

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I really can't understand the logic of ths BA staff threatening to strike. The entire industry is in the doldrums, their employer's losing money almost as fast as the B of E is printing it and has a massive pension defecit and yet they still feel it's the right course of action to further erode customer confidence in BA. :confused:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

It seems there are no BA cabin crew on CF to defend their overwhelming vote to strike.

I'd imagine that if i was a fully paid up member of a trade union I'd expect my union to resist my pay being cut (up to 30% in some cases) whilst the management still get million pound bonuses.

I'd be pretty disappointed if my Employer wanted to impose changes without any negotiation or input from my chosen representative, the Trade Union.

I'd be more than a bit peeved if my genuine concerns that the Health and Safety of the travelling public could be comprimised were totally ignored by the management.

I'd be wondering why I was paying my union dues if my Union didn't offer me the chance to withdraw my labour in protest at the arrogant stance of the management in refusing to talk to it's own workforce.

As a customer I'd be wondering why the management didn't at least consider the genuine and viable proposal presented it by my Union.

I suppose when you've got the reputation of being a Union basher and you've got a press that is happy to union bash at every possible moment, you don't really have to give such considerations.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

BA clearly have financial problems and need to cut expenditure but doing it by reducing staff is not helpful as it affects the quality of their service and a strike will worsen the situation.

If the situation is really bad then the management staff need to take a big cut in salary and workers need to take a much smaller one. In that way, expenditure is reduced and BA still remains competitive allowing the company to continue to generate income.

Let's bear in mind that it is management who took the decisions which led to the company being in the state it is in.

Putting people out of work solves nothing and in the interest of keeping the company going it does seem that a bit of common sense and compromise is in order.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

:clap::clap::clap:
about time someone posted some sense instead of the usual be great-full you have a job drivel .

its a strike not the end of the world ,and a strike is always the last resort of any workforce ,try blaming bad management .

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

this does make me think that maybe the Unions have had their day. As others have said the company is losing money hand over fist and this is the only course of action they can take to keep going. I have had a pay freeze for a few years and just have to accept it. I'd rather a pay freeze than no money at all and can see the business sense of it.

The Unions just want to flex their muscles and justify their subs and existance if they had any sense they would just have to accept that BA are in trouble and need to make cuts

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Well that's all very well but BA's customers pay the bills and losing more of them than BA already has to its cheaper rivals seems an utter nonsense right now. I'm not sure all those whose plans are going to be disrupted by this action (if it happens) care who's to blame.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Where is the 30% salary cut?
Hardly a huge cut in staffing and if that makes it a Health & Safety issue, that hardly says much about the remaining 14 cabin crew.
Any revised contracts are for new contracts, not existing ones. If new employees are going to be on a lower salary that doesn't affect any of the existing employees.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Personally i blame a bad union for letting it get this far. But hey at least the union bosses will have a job after the BA staff lose there's so all is not lost for the union ;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Yep and they could have had a strike at ANY time of their choosing..So what do they do?Choose a time that wouldn't make people think they were a bunch of cynical manipulators?No of course not.

They pick a time that will give them maximum publicity,maximum irritation to BA customers,cost BA dearly(after all travel costs rise drastically during seasonal periods like Christmas) and think we the public should support them?When the railway workers chose Christmas in recent years we all got teed off then.Why should this be any different?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

yet millions still travel by train - and why would anyone in a dispute pick a time that is convenient to there employer ?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Possibly because they have no choice about how they travel?Also whose really inconvenienced..the public and why should we be the ones to pay the fecking price?How many of the public will lose out financially because of this?BA workers(and train workers) get their pay rise and those who have been inconvenienced will have to pay higher travel costs in the future.

There are ways to strike so that you make a point without losing the respect of those whose support you seek...

I so hope that BA stick to their guns this time..or there won't be any BA in the near future..Then see how BA cabin crew like working for the likes of Easyjet or Ryan Air...

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Back to the good ol' days of the sweatshop and kids up chimneys hey ? :erm:
Recession is no excuse for workers democratic rights to be ignored, it is all very well commenting on here or elsewhere against taking action when the ones taking the swipes are not directly involved, ie; not working for the company involved.
No doubt the boss of BA will still be ok over the festive season.
There are two sides to every story.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 ----------



Maggy, what are the ways to strike that you speak of that does not involve someone getting uppety about it?
We're all guilty of looking after number one in this country, and who is to blame for that?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Oooo, let me guess, let me guess, it's all Maggie's fault isn't it! :dozey:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

If the BA management and the unions do not resolve this amicably there may not be a BA to work for in which case everyone will be in the same boat -unemployed.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

You're the one clearly not awake with the larks my son.
Did I mention her name? No, but you can have half a point.
Any more takers?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

It is? How's that work then?:erm:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

So, because the majority of people would end up unemployed it is alright for new contracts to be pushed through without consultation?
The end of the day BA is still a very healthy business, one that is well capable of looking after it's employees.
It has chosen not to, the workers have chosen to use their democratic right that people have died in wars for, you have nothing against that have you?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I suspect that it's a game of bluff and counterbluff and you're right Maggy it's Joe Public who suffer.

I think the Union's hand has been forced though.

BA's CEO has been said in the past that you don't get anywhere negotiating.... not the best attitude to have in industrial negotiations. He's cocked up union negotiations in the past and is doing so again. The cabin crew staff, whose actions many on here are quick to denounce, care far more for BA and it's customere service than BA management. They have invested far more time and energy than any of the management have. BA cabin staff will still be there to pick up the pieces after Willie Walsh has merged BA with Iberia and {predictably} soon after rides off into the sunset with his mega bucks bonus and share options.

90% voting for strike action in a turnout of 80% really reflects how disgruntled this group of workers really are.

If Walsh can't meet with Unite before the strike to thrash out a compromise agreement then the demise of BA will be his responsibility.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Ooh, ;) another one clearly not had their cornflakes, may have been the hot milk ;)

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 ----------


Totally agree, but to add, after the demise of the company you will not see walsh begging on a street corner, selling the big issue, or being turfed out of his house.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

You didn't need to mention her name. When it comes to blaming Prime Ministers from the last century for today's industrial problems, you have form:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34893842-post287.html

;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Your post is based on your belief that BA is a very healthy company. What evidence is there that your belief is valid?

My post is based on the belief that BA is not a healthy company for the following reasons.First, as a result of the recession, BA has reported losses which will worry shareholders.Second, the fact that the workers want to strike is indicative that industrial relations within the company are poor.Third,the strike will result in refunds to customers which will reduce the income to BA weakening its position.Fourth, the impact of the strike if it goes ahead will damage future customer relations with the result that some customers may not wish to travel with BA because they are unreliable.

As I understand it, the workers have exercised their democratic right to strike because they do not wish to have new contracts foisted on them without consultation. If that's the case, I'm just wondering why the union has not sued BA for breach of the present contract or taken BA to arbitration?

Further, the workers must still want to work for BA because if they were so aggrieved by the management action, they could have resigned en masse and left the management with a massive organisational headache.

As this hasn't happened, we have to conclude that the strike is a negotiating tool designed to force the BA management back into contract re-negotiations.

If your belief is wrong and this situation is not resolved, BA will probably go belly up and there will be a lot of unhappy, unemployed people.

If my belief is wrong, the management and unions will keep battling it out until they reach an agreement or until they create a situation where BA goes under.

It is, as I said earlier, a situation requiring common sense and compromise.

As for democracy, it is a two-edged sword that needs to be used wisely. Though it gives you freedoms,it does not ensure that you will necessarily use them for your own good.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Sorry, I missed this little gem earlier. Which war was fought over the right to withdraw labour?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I suspect arc2004 was alluding to wars fought to protect democratic rights, one of which is right to withdraw labour.. but I also suspect you knew that ;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Where does it say that existing contracts are going to be changed?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

No not at all, I am saying that no matter what recession we are in, I am sick to death of hearing strike this strike that, people should just stop moaning about their "rights" and what they think is "right" and do the job they are paid for. It's a no wonder, why people use Temp's and Outsourcing.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Now again, point me in the direction of the thread you initially commented on, where it is I mention her name, stupidly saying " I have form " means I did?
Until you do behave yourself.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Germans can strike too, you know.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

So everybody should just get on with it and allow the culture of management by bullying to dominate. Meanwhile you see the status of the organisation you have been proud of being continually eroded due to management ineptitude. That's not the world I want to live in.

This isn't a bunch of left wing militants who have voted overwhelmingly to withdraw their labour. This is middle England calling.

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

Would they have been able to if the result of that tiff had been different? ;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

IIRC it was their(as well as Japan) reluctance to strike after WW2 that allowed them to build a strong economy.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Allow me to repeat myself:

I've put some of it in bold to make it clearer. :)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Linky

a) Majority of people would end up unemployed - erm, no; 12.7% of jobs to be cut by March 2010 (please see attachment)

b) BA is still a healthy business - once again, erm, no; it suffered a loss before tax of £292m for the six months to the end of September 2009

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

So 800 trained staff need jobs? BA need trained staff? :scratch:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

My point prooven. They have frozen to pay to help cut costs.
Different rates of pay. Pfft, who acres?

My point prooven, I am SOOOO sick of hearing the same stuff. It's not about "rights"

You get paid, you do your job. End of. Maybe, when they are in the dole que, they might change their attitudes. Without offending anyone, it seems the country is a good at moaning, we could probably win the Moaning World cup of some description.

They want more pay because of the 5000's Tax's we have to pay. (Not that many really)

Polltax
TV License
Road Tax
Phone Line Tax
Etc etc

So maybe, we as a country should unit against, our pile of pants government..

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

[QUOTE=webcrawler2050;34929022]My point prooven. They have frozen to pay to help cut costs.
Different rates of pay. Pfft, who acres?


My point prooven, I am SOOOO sick of hearing the same stuff. It's not about "rights"

You get paid, you do your job. End of. Maybe, when they are in the dole que, they might change their attitudes. Without offending anyone, it seems the country is a good at moaning, we could probably win the Moaning World cup of some description.



aint you the little forelock tugger

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

[QUOTE=papa smurf;34929026]
Noooo LOL just annnoyed with this as I've got family coming on in BA over the xmas period..

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

[QUOTE=webcrawler2050;34929029]sorry to hear that
its the same every xmas planes boats and trains grind to a halt ,this is after all the uk we do misery really well .

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Yup and I am sick of having to work my backside off and these people take their jobs for granted because some union desk jockey, gave them the stupid idea to strike.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

you do know that a union is its membership not just a couple of desk jockys ,
this was a unanimous vote by the rank and file .

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

and it is pretty much an unselfish strike. The rank and file are less concerned about their pay freeze, and more concerned about, working along side lower paid colleagues in the future (usually an industrial recipe for disaster), reduced standards of customer services, and the Health and Safety of those using BA. I suspect that the bullying arrogance of BA management may have assisted the vote being so overwhelmingly in favour of strike action.

I'm sick and tired of the typical kneejerk reaction of some people on this forum who immediately denounce any industrial action and automatically blame those who have most to lose. :(

A little bit of homework into the record and the background of BA management might enlighten you.;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

From my understanding some of the people who voted weren't actually employees of BA anymore. So why did they vote?

Plus most union bosses rake it in (Some earn £50,000+).

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Some wouldn't get out of bed for that ;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Good new, the strike can't go ahead, As deemed illegal. BBC News

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

there was to low a percentage being made redunant they could just re ballot and it be all back on again

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Yup - that'd seem likely. Bit sloppy of the union though eh?..

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I do think its appauling and with Eurostar on about it as well its maximum disruption spoiling peoples chrismases. Did you see that shop that barred all BA staff?

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

some faiths have had their celebrations not every one is a christian ole bean ;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

its still spoiling christmases. Its obvious its aimed at this time of the year to do that . Nothing to correct me for old bean ;)

I would imagine a very large number of athiests celebrate christmas ;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

it just so happens that that xmas and big bang day are on the 25 dec:)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I'm giving presents or cash for family and close friends, not because I'm into the Christmas thing. But because I know I'll be getting something, so it would be churlish not to respond in kind.... I could truely give a gnats fart for the fairy story of a sprog in a manger, a jewish minx who got pregnant before she got married, a celestial event and 3 pimped up rich dudes on camels.... :rolleyes:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

A guy I work with (buddist) celibrates it to a point with his work colleges.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

c'mon - good one BA!

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Stick that up your joint chair, Simpson. :D

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

is this some new smoking platform that i am unaware of;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Good news indeed. The union leader seemed pretty ****ed off that he was not going to be able to ruin 1000's of people's travel plans.
What a prat.

Glad to see the courts saw sense and kicked the unions butt.

One member of staff said this about the strike
So i wonder did the union tell there staff how long and when the strike would be . ????

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

It could well be, they're clearly out of their minds on something. :D

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

enter mother nature

Flights cancelled, trains delayed and roads closed - Britain wakes to transport chaos after heavy snow falls overnight

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0a1jVmiTK

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

And isn't it heartening that there are no strikes to look forward to on top of all that.;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

I don't think anybody looks forward to strikes.:erm:.. but it looks likely that there will be some.

IMHO it's another nail in the coffin for BA. Walsh and the rest of BA management could spend some of their energy on negotiating a settlement instead of prolonging the uncertaintly.

The clearly disgruntled work force remain disgruntled. They should be disgruntled with Unite too for allowing Walsh the opportunity to challenge the ballot result.

Where does it leave BA though? How many people are going to book BA in advance when they know that industrial action will happen.

Walsh is pinning all his hopes on a merger with Iberia. Once Iberia have a look at the books and see how deep the hole in the pension fund is they may well just walk away from the proposal. If they don't walk away it will be a marriage in which BA will be the weaker partner. BA will exist in name for a while in much the same way as Abbey National did but in reality it's a British institution that will be lost forever. :( Great victory eh:confused:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

and all it cost was democracy what a bargain .

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

it makes we wonder if workers have any rights left at all .It seems to me that reguardless of what workers think about new employment practices they will be ignored ,given the size of the vote for strike action then there is obviously something wrong at BA and if the work force feel that strong they should just walk out anyway and there wont be that much BA could do about it

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

If this happens it will be a institution lost partly because of the Unions. The truth is, compared to other airlines, they had one of the best salary packages for staff. I don't see how giving them even more would 'save' BA.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

i think the strike was called because BA want to impose a new contract on staff with different working practices ,i don't think it has a lot to do with money

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

You won't find anywhere in my posts a suggestion that anybody should be given more money. The only tactic Walsh brought to the job when he became CEO was bullying and attacking staff terms and conditions. He has repeatedly stated that you don't get anywhere negotiating. This is the attitude of a previous era. During his time at Aer Lingus he made quite a few costly blunders while dealing with union. His strategy then was to take Aer lingus to the point where a management buyout, led by him, was the only viable option. Fortunately the Irish politicians finally saw through him.

He provoked the Gate gourmet dispute which cost BA millions, he oversaw the T5 fiasco and is now hellbent on being the CEO of a merged BA/Iberia airline. There was much made by the supportive press of him forgoing his bonus during the T5 fiasco, I didn't notice any reporting of the £1 million pound "additional payments" he received.

The only way for BA to survive is to get rid of this numpty and install mangagement who are willing to bring a strategy that is for the benefit of BA, not the CEO.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

No, they didn't. Derek Simpson was on five live last night right after the announcement. When Peter Allen asked him if they'd told the BA staff how long and when the strike was to be before the ballot, Simpson told him to find out how a union works.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

i am sure that the details of how long a strike is going to last and when it takes place has to be ironed out before the ballot .If people say they didn't know how long the strike was on for or when it would take place then they are talking out their backside

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Quite right. Who would blindly put an X in a box without knowing the possible consequences. The press will find some idiots who claim this but it isn't representative.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

well i've just checked my big book of strike rules and it states that any action voted on must commence within 4 weeks of the ballot or the ballot is invalid
it also states that the employer must be notified of how many people and who they are and when they will be implementing any action before the ballot takes place

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

This is what makes the High court decision so undemocratic. There is a fair bit of time passes between informing the employer of the ballot process, the ballot, the result and then the industrial action.

In that time there will always be some people who receives a ballot paper who are not entitled to vote. The decision yesterday was about a few hundred people who no matter how the voted wouldn't have affected the overall outcome.

In the future, if there is a much closer ballot, does the employer only have to find one or two people who shouldn't have voted to run to the High Court to force the union to start the process again. Bad precedent :(

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Hang on, hang on ... I think it's about time we tempered all this feverish commentary with a little learned opinion. Here's a few wide words from an industrial relations lawyer, offered to the BBC before the outcome of the legal challenge was announced:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8414306.stm

As is often the way in these sorts of cases, there's the critical word reasonable. What you're suggesting as the future nightmare scenario simply is not reasonable. No judge is going to halt a strike just because an employer can find a small handful of people who shouldn't have been balloted. For BA to have won this, there must have been a substantial number of people who were not entitled to vote, and there must have been some good evidence that Unite didn't bother to take reasonable steps to avoid balloting them.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

What's so democratic about a trade union that's prepared to flout the law in order to get its way? The laws on how strikes are called are there to prevent unions abusing their power and were put there by a democratically-elected parliament.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

thats the problem the word REASONABLE is used far to much in employment law and can be very vague also it does depend on a judge to rule on what is resonable and what's not .I understood that some of the people ruled invalid to vote were people on voluntary unpaid leave or voluntary redundancy (serving notive)surely these people technically still work for BA and so should have been allowed to vote

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

BA complained about ballot papers that were sent to people who had already left and those who were in the process of leaving... These were all people who had gone or were going under the VR scheme. All within the last 6 months, most more recent .

I've seen various figure quoted for those not entitled to vote but there seems to be a consensus that it was in the region of 800 - 1000.

The membership figures of most trade unions is usually out of date because the vast majority of members pay through their wages. The Union therefore depends on the Employers to inform them of leavers, sickness etc, through their payroll process. Some employers do this monthly, others quarterly, a few even less frequently. I don't know how regular BA send returns to Unite but a balloting process that started at the end of October would have been using figures from further back than even that.

I totally agree with the expert you quoted on what is reasonable. The high court judge didn't.

The undemocratic aspect is that even if every single ballot paper that was incorrectly issued was counted as no vote, there would still be an overwhelming majority voting for industrial action.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

surely anybody in the process of leaving through a VR scheme still works for the company and therefore should vote

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

That was the phrase used by BA in the high court documents. I'm assuming these are people that will have left before the strike starts, or in between ballot papers being issued and their employment terminating, but how the hell the union are supposed to know that. :shrug:

This was a secret ballot so nobody actually knows if any of these people actually voted.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

The details of how long and what dates were not known when the vote took place, this is why some members of staff are ok about it being cancelled now, because they know the impact it would have had over Christmas. Let's face it, they have little public support as it is, without TV pictures of people stranded in far away places over the Christmas period.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

as i said before the dates and duration of any strike action or work to rule action have to be announced to the relavent company before the ballot takes place . i am reasonably sure of this but stand to be corrected

the public support for this strike was never going to be strong at any time of year it does inconvenience the public and the public hate anybody who inconvenience them for anything as trivial as workers rights ...untill it's their job on the line

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Maybe if the Union put forward a better case. Instead of the weak one they presented.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

over 90% of the people who voted thought it was a strong case. I haven't witnessed too much press coverage of their views.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Well, you obviously know trade union rules better than Unite's Derek Simpson, who stated last night on Five Live that the BA workers didn't know the dates when they voted. You can see how well informed the members were by this quote from this BBC News story:

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Derek Simpson doesn't know his elbow from another part of his anatomy.;)

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Oh, Five Live also had an industrial relations expert on after Derek Simpson last night and he warned that next week there may be a very big boycott of BA by the staff, all phoning in sick, which has happened before by BA staff apparently.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

agreed, and if the person quoted by Charlie Bubble didn't have any idea when the strike was going to happen then they should be paying more attention to the meetings

this is a direct quote from the DTI's code of practice

Communication with members

36. A union should give relevant
information to its members entitled to vote
in the ballot, including (so far as
practicable):-
• the background to the ballot and the
issues to which the dispute relates;
• the nature and timing of the industrial
action the union proposes to organise

if a majority vote “Yes�;

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Well perhaps one judge, they found 800 max who may have voted of 13 000, 92% of the 11 000 which did vote, voted to strike, still a substantial majority even taking those into account, elections have been won and lost with less voting irregularities than that but I bet our learned friend wouldn't have a bar of that in court.

http://money.aol.com/article/results...129?v=aolrssdf

I was on the fence on this strike, normally I side with the work force but on this occassion I think a 12 day strike was way ott and something I am sure they weren't voting for, I mean who can afford to take nearly 2 weeks of? This sham of a court case has pretty much evened the score up for me though and Willy Walsh, good God everytime he opens his mouth I have more sympathy for the workers.

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

It's not that I have no sympathy for the workers, I just view the ploy of having a strike in the travel industry at Christmas as cynical and manipulative in the extreme.:mad:

I'd have supported such strikes at other times and in shorter timescale and spaced out more but this was the union really being uncharitable to the people whose support they really require in the future of BA if BA is to survive.:(

Re: British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike
 

Because it's not relevant. Either the strike ballot has been legally performed or it has not. It is not in the judge's gift to determine what may or may not have been the outcome had the irregularities been discounted.

If it has been illegally performed, then it must be set aside. Anything else is a red herring.