Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8349757.stm

I think it's decent to send a hand-written letter. Bush did not contact the fallen at all (I believe Blair phoned rather than wrote). I don't think poor hand-writing and a spelling mistake is meant as an insult :erm:

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I go back and forth on this but I do think that its right for the woman to be upset. There's no way i'd send out a condolence card like that, let alone had I been implicated in the person's death. Spelling comfort as "cumfurt" and "you family" is bad enough, but misspelling a person's name or scribling over a mistake instead of re-writing is unforgiveable. Its not like he couldn't get someone to proof-read his letters.

It isn't just the writing as wlel, he read the name out wrongly.

To me, the man is just clown. Someone said "if this is the amount of care he puts into writing letters to the families of victims, then its no wonder the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were so badly managed". Quite.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

To be honest, if my writing was that bad I think I'd get someone to draft it for me and then proofread and sign it myself :erm:

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Whilst I can fully understand the awful pain and upset felt by the family, I won't be adding to the pillorying of Gordon Brown on this occasion. Notwithstanding the intense dislike I feel for his 'leadership' and policy, I cannot accept that he's so callous that he'd wish to offend anyone in this manner and at least (it appears) he bothered to hand write the letter rather than simply sign a typed up copy.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Noone saying its deliberate, but such a blaise attitude isn't right for someone who is running the country.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think that's an assertion to say he had a 'blaise' attitude. That would have been to simply sign a pre-written letter or get someone else to do it. It's a few spelling mistakes and poor handwritting. Not ideal but not meant as an insult.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I don't think it was blase or deliberate - I think he's a busy man, his handwriting's virtually illegible and on this occasion he made a genuine, albeit extremely hurtful, mistake. Nothing more nothing less.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

The general spelling I can overlook but to get someone's name wrong twice? In writing and speech?

I can't buy that.

Noone is that busy they can't take a minute to re-read a letter give it to someone else to re-read. I'm sure if a suboordinate had made a similar mistake they would have been held to account for it.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

You all seem to be forgetting that the man is has only one eye and according to some he has failing sight in the other. Whilst the mother has every right to be upset at the death of her son, would she rather it wasn't a personal message of condolence from the Prime Minister, or that it was a stock letter from a some flunky at the ministry of defence? I am pretty sure that the Prime Minister is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. He would have been damned if he didn't and damned if did.

On anther note, I am pretty sure that his sort of thing is not first time this has happened to them. Their son is called James "Jamie" Janes, when she was reading out the name on the video, I could not discern her speech differences from "Janes" and James." It is entirely possible that the Prime Minister was told that his name was Jaimie James.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

George Bush used to get things like that wrong all the time - even the master orator Obama's had his moments. If Brown had wanted to be truly cynical, blase or just plain lazy he could just have left the whole matter to a secretary, simply signed the letter and thereby covered his posterior.

Whilst we'll have to agree to differ on this aspect, I certainly agree that had one of his minions caused this level of embarrassment they'd probably be in receipt of a nice new P45 right about now....

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Ok for a start when it comes to something that doesn't get him off the hook we're constantly told GB's eyesight is fine and doesn't represent a problem in his job now we have this letter and all of a sudden we are being asked to take that into account so which one is it GB because i would like to know. As for those saying "at least he is writing personally" so what no one asked him to do it no one made him do it, it was his choice and when dealing with familys of service people that are grieving for loved ones you better make damn sure you get it right and he didn't.

Have you seen that letter and looked at it does it convey to you a heartfelt message of condolence or a rush job to look good i know what i think. Great play was made of this writing to familys when it was felt it made GB look more human and now he is stuck with it so do it properly or don't do it at all. Military commanders are also very busy people in extremely stressful jobs and they manage to get it right everytime so GB has no excuse and people should stop trying to make them for him.

This is one more example of GB screwing up on something he started and while that list is long this is not an addition that should ever have been made and it is an insult to this family no two ways about it.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Stereotypical trashy tabloid blowing the story out of all proportion, not to mention the mother who's son died
It IS sad she's lost her son, but to write to the sun newspaper to complain about a handwritten letter, is insane
I think it's very decent of the PM to write to each family who's lost a relative in the war(s)

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

So if you lost a loved one you'd be happy to get a badly spelled incorrectly named untidy rushed hand written letter would you just because it was written by the PM of the country. Good for you but true value of someone and something is shown in how you deal with it and GB has done very little to show he truly values the armed forces of the UK except when he wants them to get involved in something and this latest episode is just one more way he shows how much he does really value them.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

While I'm no fan of Gordon I think the Sun have gone too far in their vendetta against him.

I wonder how long they had this letter before running the story and its very convenient the mother just happened to have recording equipment standing by to tape the phone conversation between the PM and her.

I can't see any easier way to do it. A typed and handsigned letter would look inpersonal and its not as if his handwriting is going to improve anytime soon.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

You get someone else to hand write it, dictated by you, and then you sign it.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Any time I get something like that I immediately assume its a stock letter and has been handsigned at the last minute with no real thought going into it.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Being the Sun I wonder how much money they have paid out for this letter and especially the 13 minute recorded conversation that they recorded on Sunday between the mother and GB.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think it all would have been fine if he got the name right. The fact its wrong makes the letter look rushed irrelevent of handwritting. My writting is very poor but I hope in a situation like this I would know the guys name

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

The fact he spelled the name wrong, was a mistake on his part..but it was just that, a mistake
How do you know he rushed through the letter? As he himself has stated, his handwriting was always untidy
Mine is always untidy, bordering on unreadable and that's not because I "rush" when writing, it's because I have a form of dyslexia. (Dysgraphia or something)

People make mistakes, he shouldn't be hung up and embarrassed in front of millions of people purely because he misspelled a name.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Yeah. Seems Brown phoned to apologise and she recorded it on behalf of The Sun so that they could have a running story.

---------- Post added at 08:59 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

His name was Jamie Janes. It's not unthinkable he thought it was James. Could easily have heard wrong, saw it written wrong, and so on. The fact is that Brown obviously writes to every soldiers family and if the story was he sent out letters written by someone else then there would also be outrage.

It's kind of sickening to see a paper with such a obvious agenda exploiting the death of servicemen in order to pursue that agenda.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

It don't think there are any excuses for getting the name of a dead soldier wrong if you are writing his family a personal letter. He would have had full details of the dead soldier's name, and to get that wrong, in my opinion, is extremely poor and I'd add distasteful. When I write a letter to someone I don't know personally I make sure I double check the details to make sure they are correct. For Gordon Brown not to do so in this case might be forgiveable, but its extremely poor.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think Brown's being a little hard done by in this instance, but if I were him I'd be sitting down and having a good hard think about exactly why the Press campaign against him personally, and his Government, has turned so nasty. I wonder if he's so deluded that he still thinks things are going to be better by next May.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I'm sorry for this woman's loss and I understand her anger but I deplore the lack of dignity with which her son's sacrifice is being associated now.

I also think she is being used by the paper whom won't give a second thought once her story is no longer newsworthy.

This lad deserves a better memorial than being used to sell newspapers.:(

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think selling newspapers is a secondary concern on this occasion Maggy - the Sun is engaged in war against Brown and Labour with the aim of painting them as totally unelectable by next May.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

A little? Jeez, even I'm feeling sorry for him. Apparently *Tory MPs* are feeling sorry for him.

http://www.septicisle.info/2009/11/i...or-reason.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia...rdon-brown-sun

If the Sun gave a toss about our soldiers as opposed to getting a pliant government into power that owes them one and will faithfully emasculate the BBC, they'd examine exactly why they're out there* and whether they're doing any good at all. A lot of this poppy-plastering nonsense is a kind of suppressed guilt. Not very psychologically healthy, Britain.

* Because the US are there, and to stop Pakistan becoming a nuclear-armed fundamentalist Sunni theocracy bordering nuclear armed India. Ironically if Brown had the balls to point out the second part, he might have more backing, rather than pretending that it's about security on the streets of the UK.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I know that but as a wife and daughter of ex service men I can only think about how this young man deserves to be remembered for his sacrifice not for some spat with the papers and the present government and his mother..I bet he'd be furious to see his mother used in this way..:mad:

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Ask yourself 'would the Sun be going so big on the story if the view she wanted made public was that the war was a waste of time and the boys should all come home'? Plenty of bereaved parents have made exactly that point without making the top of the news agenda for three days.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

This isn't a constituency letter this guy wrote.

Janes gave his life to his country and Brown can't even care to get his name right? I wouldn't even send a letter or card to a family member with a scribbled out mistake. And we have someone running the country who can't even spell "comfort" correctly?

There is no excuse, and I am dyslexic myself. And for those who said "well, his hand-writing is messy, and he can't see what he's writing properly...", don't forget he read his name out wrong in Parliament.

I don't care who brought this up, this is disgraceful behavior for a PM. It wouldn't be accepted from a subordinate, that's for sure.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Disgraceful and Disrespectful would be not to write a letter at all, or to get a subordinate to write the letter. He didn't, he wrote it himself as he has done for every solider who died while he was prime minster. I think that is respectful. He then phoned about the letter.

I think it's just opportunistic attacks on a unpopular Prime Minster. He is obviously did not mean disrespect, the meant the opposite, but though blunders has created another problem.

He obviously shouldn't have phoned her. I am guessing it was expected by The Sun but still, he should have known it would be recorded.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

If he has a visual impairment to can excuse him reading the name out incorrectly. He should have had help I do feel he has been misjudged

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Wasnt just the spelling mistake or poor handwriting, it was the scribble on there when he got his name wrong, he could have atleast started again with no mistakes.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think as the PM he should have known the name before hand and not reading his name out for the first time. Even if he had to, then surely the could have been printed clearly enough for him to read.

Rizzy's post comes to mind. We are keep being told that Brown's eyesight doesn't affect his job but when it apparently does then they say we all must excuse him for it.

And now we're told he is too busy to re-write a letter because he scribbled out a mistake on it? Noone is that busy. Besides 5 mins spent back then could have saved a hell of a lot of time now.

Also, Mrs Janes received letters from a lot of busy people like the Queen and DOD but only Brown's letter was inexcusable.

If Brown can't even write a letter, what exactly qualifies him for running a country?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

That old saying, "if you want a job done properly, do it yourself" obviously doesn't apply to Mr Brown.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

now I do not like Brown and I do not think he can run the country. However having a learning difficulty and not being able to write and spell often does not measure my intellect. If it did do you think I would have the rep here I do? does the fact I can not write make me dumb? you yourself as a dyslexic should already know the answer to that

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

The paper also is plain, i.e no lines, my handwriting is awful and it's not because I don't take 'care'. It's much worse if I don't have lines to guide me because I end up writing an angles, taking over what would be many lines. Sometimes this means the text below a 'line' has allow extra space and so on.

It would be even worse if I had to use a big marker pen.

I mean we should be clear that he sent a letter to express his condolences in which he made spelling mistakes and we have a running news story for 2 days because The Sun is actively campaigning against him and using whatever means possible.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

You don't have to tell me what being dyslexic means.

For a start during exams at school I wasn't allowed to write illegibly or incorrectly and still get a score. I was given extra time to re-read questions and my answers but that's it. I'm not excused for poor english, content or presentation. For more serious cases of dyslexia students are allowed tools to help them but they still have to provide presentable, correct work.

He has word processors, dictionaries and staff - some of whom I imagine have a rudimentry grasp of english - on hand. He could have typed out his letter as a draft, spell-checked it and then hand-wrote it out. He could have had someone proof-read his letter after he wrote it. Even the most junior of admin staff would have said his letter is a shambles.

Being dyslexic for so many years I know my mistakes and can correct them after the fact. If he was dyslexic (and its not been confirmed he has AFAIK) then he would be similarly be aware.

I am doing a presentation at the moment for a job interview. If I have a load of spelling mistakes and spell one of my interviewers incorrectly on the hand-outs, I doubt claiming dyslexia would get me the job.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

He's getting a hard time fro trying to do the decent thing.

I'm not a Brown fan, but this is being taken too far.

Why did she tape the conversation between her and Brown??? How many world leaders would actually picvk up the phone and speak to people in this way?? he should be thanked for it, not lambasted.

I think this is more about the Daily **** putting the boot into Brown, utilising a mothers grief to their ends.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think The Sun must have known he would phone regarding the letter and so had her record it.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

But if he had not got the name wrong the Sun would only have had his spelling to talk about, and that would have been a non story. He has given the paper the ammunition. I don't think in all honesty anyone cares about whether he can spell or not. I think there are no excuses for getting the name wrong.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think once her grief subsides she will look back on this and feel embarrassed, she has done nothing for the memory of her son by her actions

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think its fair to say that people don't expect him to have good hand writing just because he is PM. What people do expect is that if you are sending a letter to a dead solidier's mother, you should at least get the name right.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

It's not like he called him smith or clarke, Janes/James.

In future why not just not send any letters out at all?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

You should but we all make mistakes and it's not as if his put Mrs Smith instead of Janes. He put James. I could easily see myself making the exact same mistake. It's a mistake he left himself open too but doing the letters himself, by hand, which is commendable. If it was automatic and done by computer then it could have been a worse outrage: Dear [NAME_OF_NEXT_OF_KIN]

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying its not good that he wrote the letter. I am saying that in my opinion there is no excuse for getting the name wrong.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

The fact is he human seems enough for me.

What is ironic is that this was a very personal, obviously imperfect, approach from Gordon Brown. It was not a letter drafted by spin doctors, checked by assistants, and cleared by a press office. He is getting blasted for making a mistake which would have been avoided if he took the new Labour spin machine approach so detested by most of us.

It seems he took time out, wrote what would have been a difficult letter to write, and then sent it. All very private and personal. Then he gets attacked because obviously that approach leaves him open to gaffes.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Do you send out letters without checking them?

If you were sending a condolence to a grieving woman that you were partially responsible for, would you have checked it? Still sent it out misnamed, misspelt and with scribbled-out words?

I can understand his writing is poor, he makes mistakes as we all do. However it shows a stunning lack of nonchalence that he couldn't bother to check something so serious. Its not like he hasn't had the support to do it. The guy has speech writers on his permanant staff.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I think it shows a lack of nonchalance* that he didn't use all the resources available to him to make it as professional and sterile as possible and did it himself. He recognises he has a duty and doesn't pawn off this unpleasant part to lackies.

*I take it you meant to showed a stunning amount of nonchalance?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I've checked letters, sent them out and afterwards noticed the odd mistake..Yes.


I'd rather have a letter, heartfelt, written by the man who is charge of this country, who has taken time out to write it, without the influence of spin doctors, speech writers or other govermental aids.

I suppose you would rather a non-descript typed letter (with perfect grammer and spelling) signed by the PM (or rather the PMs secretary?)

This whole episode saya more about the mother and and other people around this, than it does Brown

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

No, I would have at least got someone to double-check my letter before sending it out if I was incapable of doing it myself. But then again, I would have cared.

Thr "you and you family" is understandble to a point, i'm still waiting for a good excuse for misnaming a letter and then sent it out with scribbled-out mistakes.

The latter is inexcusable. Absolutely inexcusable. He scribbled a letter, probably between doing two other routine things, dispatched it without giving any care and probably though the widow through herself at his feet in gratitude.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I appreciate there's a difference between a letter of condolence and a forum posting, but I do wish those who are so keen to criticise Gordon Brown over this would at least have the good grace to spell- and grammar-check their contributions to this discussion before hitting the 'reply' button.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Which highlights my point nicely.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

You have to keep making assertions into his state of mind in order to make it seem more outrageous than it is. First of all we know from other leaked notes than spelling mistakes and awful handwriting is common from Gordon Brown. So those are not evidence of him rushing the letter.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Which point does it highlight, and how?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I'm sorry but I'm with Punky on this. Yes he wrote a letter, but in all honesty, if I received that from the PM, I'd have stopped reading it at the point of seeing he got my son's name wrong.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

That everyone makes mistakes, especially when rushed. That's excusable. Particularly when its on a forum posting. What isn't excusable Paul is when the same attitude is applied a grieving woman's condolence message.

Like Brown I have access to a dictionary but chose not to use it. Unlike Brown I don't have access to speechwriters presumably with a higher english qualification than myself.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Personally i don't care about the spelling so much although it isn't good when such a basic word as comfort is spelt cumfort by the man leading the country i am angry that this guy misspelled this soldiers name realised his mistake and scribbled it out and sent the letter. Seriously how many of you would be happy with that given that soldiers file was completely accessable to him and letting someone check the letter would have taken a whole minute or two.

When you send a personal letter and spell the name wrong that is an insult and that's it simple and it was a completely unneeded mistake that whether some on here believe it or not can cause great distress. But i still havn't seen a credible answer to how it is we're meant to take his eyesight into account on this now when only a few weeks ago GB himself was telling everyone his eyesight wasn't an issue that also makes me angry.

As an ex serviceman i can completely understand the anger of this mother and can imagine feeling the same anger were that to happen to me and i would bet most of the other ex service's people on here can too. People talk about GB respecting this family and hence personally writing to them, well how much respect can you have when you not only spell his name wrong on a letter but in parliament you also pronounce it wrong.

I am no fan of the sun at all and never buy it or read it but sometimes even the worst can show the truth and show something to be as bad as it is and that's the case here. Do they have an agenda on GB of course they do but a smart man would limit the ammunition he handed to the likes of the sun something again GB seem's unable to do. In fact this incident is pretty representative of his whole time as PM one own goal after own goal and always an excuse and always another cock up around the corner maybe the next one will affect more people in a way they can understand better then some are understanding this.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

What some are ignoring is that it is highly probable that it was not he who got the name wrong. It is more likely that it was the person who provided him with the name in the first place.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I must say I chuckled listening to former spin doctor Charlie Wheelan this morning complaining about all the Brown 'bullying' and misrepresentation going on in the press. Rumour has it that Brown didn't get where he is today playing softball with those in his way to the top you know Charlie.... Then of course there was the Derek Draper/Damian McBride smeargate affair which I'm sure Brown knew nothing whatsoever about....:rolleyes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...ordfather.html

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

FWIW i've tried to avoid commenting on the woman an focusing on Brown's actions.

However, she's come out with a "statement" (an interview on BBC News 24 now). I'll try and be as kind as I can, she's really not doing herself, her cause or her son any favours here.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

What did the statement say?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Not sure about the full text, but just seen the headlines on News 24 and it said that she accepts his apology but hopes he has sleepless nights thinking about her son. They also had some geezer on saying that she thought she had been manipulated by the media.

No links on bbc as I type this though.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

It was more of an interview in the end although BBC News called it a statement.

Paraphrasing parts of it

1. She's not be manipulated by the media but they are mis-representing her
2. She's not being political and not trying to paint Brown as insensitive.
3. She accepts Brown is sorrry but wishes he handled it differently
4. Pushed hard on the lack of resources
5. Doesn't feel Brown knows what its like to lose an adult child although she conceeds he does know how it feels to lose a young child (as does she apparently)
6. She's setting up a fund for her son to provide squaddies with equiptment so they don't have to buy.
7. Claims all other mums who have lost sons are behind her.
8. Went into a lot of details about Jamie Janes which I feel was entirely unnecessary.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

We have to remember though that this is a mother in pain and probably saying and no doubt doing things she would never normally do and completely believe the sun is misrepresenting her as that seems to be how they normally operate. I have no doubt when she looks back on this in a few years time there will be more then one aspect she regrets but until we have been in the position of losing one of our kids in these circumstances i don't feel judgement of the mother is right.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Agree she almost certainly isn't thinking straight - who on earth would be? She's also an angry woman in unbearable pain so we must all make allowances for that fact.

I heard her recorded conversation with Brown and an interview with her this afternoon. She seems to have accepted the situation more now as might be expected. There's no doubt the Sun have tried to make the most of this to embarrass Brown but I don't feel they've misrepresented her in what comment I've heard from them so far. I don't buy or read the Sun so can't comment on what they may have written however.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

agree with that

plus as a dyslexic ( no one would have guessed that ;) ) i find the idea that just because some ones writing is untidy or miss spelled is automatically insulting insulting in its self

he personally bothers to write that should be appluaded no mater what the rights and wrongs of the conflict are

i think what ever he did would have upset this lady if it had been typed we most likely would be hearing that he couldnt be bothered to write a personal letter

and as above i think the paper is using her

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

It seems The Sun is backing way off this now after the reaction from it's commentators, some of it's own reporters, and other figures. Even Daily Fail commentators were expressing sympathy for Brown.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Gordon Brown's handwriting is awful.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Wow!:shocked:

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20091110221051

I think this is backfiring on the Sun...

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Well, it seems to have backfired on them, Apparently, the majority of support from their readers is for the Prime Minister, as it is amongst Westminster as a whole. It also seems as the majority of the media are supporting him as well.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

According to The Guardian The Sun's new political editor advised against going in strongly on this. I am guessing he was overruled, especially as this week is an especially powerful moment to exploit the deaths of servicemen.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I have just flicked thorough the first fifty or so messages on this article and I couldn't find one which supported the Sun's approach. Virtually every one of them of them sympathised with the Prime Minister.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

That's a first for the BBC Have You Say section. Usually populated by foaming at the mouth cranks.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Listening to the recorded conversation between her and Gordon. she sounds like she's interviewing him on behalf of The Sun. as much as I feel sorry for her and her son. the discussion was about apologising for the spelling mistakes, which she doesn't seem to want to accept. she just wants to talk the politics of it all.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Well if he read it out wrong to chances are a subordinate is responsible then.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Was The Sun always this active in supporting (or opposing) a party?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Most certainly, once we get into the actual general election campaign they will ramp it up, as will several others. I think Brown has caused himself a big problem here though, in that a lot of people feel they should have been entitled to an election long before now. I think the Sun's editorial team feel they are therefore justified in carrying on as if the election has been called.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I don't think he intentionally went out to upset someone who had lost a son in Afghanistan, but you'd be upset too if you had been told by the coroner that your son may have survived if there were enough evacuation helicopters to have picked him up sooner.

I also think that Brown is such a megalomaniac and can't let go of anything that he thinks it's unneccesary for anyone to check his work before sending to a relative/opening his mouth. Who on earth wants to receive a badly spelt and written letter from the leader of the country. You'd expect a polite letter, clearly written, with no spelling errors. It's not rocket science. Receiving a badly scrawled letter with your sons name wrong and dozens of spelling mistakes is going to annoy a lot of people. It's sloppy and makes it look like you couldn't give a toss if your letter comforts someone or not.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

If the likes of the Sun now modify their behaviour as a result of this, so much the better. The same has also to be said for our glorious leaders, however, who haven't been averse to a bit of bullying, intimidation and smearing themselves from time to time. Perhaps the public reaction to this affair will demonstrate to them that large portions of the puiblic aren't going to be hoodwinked by their unpleasant tactics, even if the subject of those tactics is highly unpopular.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

He only has a 7 months left now to name the date, so in effect we are in an election run up. The next election has to be before 3rd June 2010.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Yes, as are most of Murdoch's companies (Sky doesn't seem to have so much of a bias), which is why I am opposed to so much of the media being owned by Murdoch. It can, and does, distort our political system.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Yes it does, but it's encouraging to see how so many people haven't been taken in by this latest attempt to inlfluence the electorate. Maybe the game's up....

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Well apparently he wouldn't have survived and in this case at least, the helicopter was ready quite fast anyway (according to MOD who said the entire operation was completed within an hour), but his injuries were too bad. In the phone transcript she listed them and it seems like they were fatal.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Speculation either way, but I wouldn't believe a word Brown says about our forces having enough kit of the right standard, whether it's a bullet of a tank. The guy had no credibility when he started, and is now into negative credibility.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Yes, this is indeed the problem he faces. For many people, he's now just reaping the 'reward' for all the lies and spin he and Bliar have been a part of over the years.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I don't believe they are well equipped. It seems pretty certain they are not. I was saying in this case it wasn't a shortage of Helicopters that caused it (although it easily could have been).

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Cart and Horse.

AFAIK you could send other another 50 choppers to Afghanistan, we haven't got the pilots to fly them.

The problem we have is that running up to the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts we had been changing the nature of the British armed forces. Everybody thought that the days of the British being involved in a lengthy land offensive were pretty much over once the wall came down.

Therefore the army was being formed into a strike force; go in, sort it out, leave.

We haven't budgeted, and we're not structured for a 20year plan. Therefore we just don't have the equipment or manpower for such a campaign.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

You mean like John Major did?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Question is do we vote for a party and it's policies.. or do we vote for the leader and their personality??. Labour won the election in 2005 therefore have no obligation to call an election before next year - just like the Tories in 1987 went full term to 1992.....oh and won it as well!!

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Or do we vote for who the Sun and Rupert Murdoch tell us to vote for?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I am tempted to vote for whoever The Sun tells me not to vote for :dozey:

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

lol :)

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Insane ? Maybe. But Grief can take a long,long time to work its way out and newshungry newspapers with an axe to grind might think better before becoming involved in the process.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

End of the day GB could have killed this straight off by just saying "i am sorry i made a mistake and i should have been more careful" but this is a man that seems incapable of doing that and how many times has his failure to admit any real personal responsibility come back and bitten him in the backside. I don't believe for one minute he meant to offend but the fact is he did and in doing what he did he handed the sun some ammo to use which a half smart politician wouldn't have done.

That's the problem with GB he isn't a smart politician he is a bully and seems to be unable to act any other way in dealing with things it's his way or no way and if it goes wrong then it's not his fault. Not exactly the type you want running anything if people are honest is it.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Any half smart politician would have sent out a template devoid of any content which could be interpreted as offensive. Just get a speech writer to type out a sweet letter, have the spin doctors comb though each word to ensure no dangerous ambiguity in any word and then just quickly sign in when an aide hands him it. Job done.

Truth is that in this case he made a mistake while attempting to do something decent. Those who dislike him, and have a unhealthy attitude to political debate, opportunistically used it as an attempt to attack him again.

Some people lost all perspective that they foam at the mouth whenever his name is mentioned and pilloried him instinctively.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

they have always had to buy thier own kit which ever flavor of government was in

in this case though the main two things that are leveled at them by those who want to make them look bad is helicopters and armored vehicles

and as many solidness i know point out helicopters are not much use if your doing foot patrol because they want you to be seen to boost some confidence that they are there to help

and armored vehicles are only of use if your enemy hasnt got the brains to put a bigger bomb next time when the last didnt dent the new vehicles

he did something other PM's have not done and personally sent his condolences

i know the one who sent my uncle to the Falklands in an unarmored ship minus the anti aircraft missiles as they were considered to expensive didnt bother to do so

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

According to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8349757.stm

and I believe Margaret Thatcher always wrote to the families of any soldiers killed in action although I don't know if her letters were hand written. Having said that if I had writing as illegible as the PM's I don't think I'd hand write such letters for the very reason that they'd appear very hurriedly composed.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

Not commenting on Thatcher but I believed the MOD drafted the letter and it was signed (maybe not even that) by the Prime Minster. It did not mean they wrote a hand-written letter to the families.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

So he's not going out of his way to write a letter, it's something he has to do anyway?

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

I've just dealt with the 'hand' written aspect in my previous post. In any event, given the rather shabby appearance of Brown's letter I'm surprised that it was sent in that form - it's hardly something which conveys great care and attention to detail so perhaps in such tragic circumstances someone in No. 10 should have made Mr Brown aware of that and opted for the word-processor....

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:27 ----------

A letter has to be sent by the PM but whether it has to be done by hand is unclear and frankly I'd doubt it. My real point is that PM's always send letters and in this case the whole hurtful furore would have been avoided if Brown had chosen to dictate and signed a letter.

Re: Gordon Brown attacked over letter 'insult'
 

am talking about personally writing NOT signing a civil servant made up letter

as to the second bit i find it insulting as a dyslexic myself he bothered to do it personally

its well known as some seem to think his eye sight is also something they can use to bash him with and speculated ( i dont think he has ever said he is ) that he is dyslexic

to say that he has to use other ways to write when doing something personally makes my blood boil

he was not setting out policy or negotiating a deal he was just sending his personal condolences

Some have seen fit to exploited this grieving Lady who at that moment would have been upset by what ever means He had written to her as she obviously feels her son should have not been there and been safer if he was which is understandable

but hey maybe we should make it law that dyslexics must use computers to communicate an that people with less than 20/20 vision should not be allowed to manage anything


i did warn i bite on that subject ;)