We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Are these the most stupid parents in the country? Pandering to a stroppy rebellious teenager, who refuses to wear a full school uniform. Taking her out of school a few months before the most important exams of her school career and showing her that rules don't apply to her. All because the school didn't ask them if they minded that they changed the school tie.

Schoolgirl thrown out of classes over tie

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

i imagine it goes against everyones human rights.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

No, it doesn't - your imagination is imaging things.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

grrr... that keeps happening. I thought that her having to wear a clip-on tie went against my own human rights. and maybe yours too. I'm offended actually. i think it's racist and sexist and xenophobic. bloody rabbits.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Clip-on ties are a crime against good dress ! Hang the clip-on ties ! ;)

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

hanging a piece of rag around your neck has always confused me --why is it smart dress ,what is the point of it .

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Never thought about it before, a good point.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Solution to the problem, Painted on Ties!
Stupidity, how many more parents need to pull out their kids from school before schools " Get with the times " ?
Cane that Headteacher.

---------- Post added at 13:18 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------


Always baffled me too.
When it comes to finding a job after leaving school:
" Sorry Sonny, we have no vacancies, economic downturn see, but hey! neat knot in the Tie! "

http://www1.pgcps.org/districtheight...x.aspx?id=1954

A school with sense.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

irrespective of the rights & wrongs of wearing ties, in this case it is the school's policy on uniforms. So when the girl gets a job at Tesco's but declares she doesn't like the uniform, can't see Tesco pandering to her whims!!

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Well, it's probaby where she will end up anyway.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

i wouldn't wear a tie if you held a gun to my head ,and i don't work at Tesco nor would i ever consider doing so .
so the idea that if you don't follow convention ie you have your own ideas of dress sense means you end up in a crappy job seems like the invention of tie wearing sheep to me ;)

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

As Pogg said, it is not so much the tie itself, it is the fact that the school has rules about their uniform and the parents showing this child that she does not have to comply to the rules. What hope has she when she joins the real world and has to get a job. It has nothing to do with the clothes she will have to wear, it will be turning up to work on time, following orders and achieving deadlines, that will be her school tie.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

lol Though i quite like wearing my ties ( last count there were over a hundred up stairs lol ) i quite agree with you

as to the school changing things in their last year seems daft to me too new intake fair enough

taking her out of school also seems daft to me but were the school going to send her home anyway if she didn't wear it ?

as to them requiring clip on ties i would also refuse to wear one i wear a proper one with a double Windsor or nothing


the bit about full consultation made me laugh that means they consulted the few parents who turn up for PTA meetings if they had taken a vote then i would see it differently

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

To be fair I bet the little minx wouldn't have taken any newsletter about it home either...You should see the contemptuous way the students treat any newsletters home in ANY of the schools I teach in..

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

they email us ours ;)

i just know how school consultations work they consult with those who agree with them i know i have been on the not agreeing end a few times lol it can be a cold un informed place where invites fail to arrive to get consulted ;) though less so now with the email system cant blame the kids for loosing them now :P

lol though i do know what you mean and we also dont miss the strange once were paper things at the bottom of the school bag that we used to find

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Not everyone has internet access.;)

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

The reason why the school changed the ties was because they were fed up with telling the students to do them up properly. There is nothing more slovenly looking, than a child who wears their tie half way down their stomachs, with a huge knot and a short blade. Apparently, she was one of those who continued to ignore the instructions to wear the uniform correctly.


PTAs have nothing whatsoever to do with school uniforms. These are subjects and issues covered by the schools' governing bodies. It's a struggle to get anyone to turn up for PTA meetings and commit themselves to help out at the Christmas Fair, let alone make decisions such as this. Parental consultations can take many different forms, such as letters and e-mails, but the school cannot be held responsible, if parents are too lazy to respond.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

they can txt us too lol bet they had phones

;)

but seriously they do tend to only consult those who will agree with them most of the time

in this case it just seems a silly way to bring it in much easier just to bring it in by just moving it up from 1st year and leaving those already there as they are

think i might start a "Campaign For Real Neckties" lol

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

little minx :rofl:

now i understand, its bash st school

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Hahaha, took her out of school. I just let the school moan about my sakte shoes and jeans.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Your parents must be so proud......;)

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

So let them take her out let her fail her exams and suffer the consequences of it and so what if she learnns from this she can get her own way the real world will put that straight soon enough.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

first one i have yet to see a school where the kids wear their ties in a uniform way

as to the second point PTA may not be supposed to be deciding things but they are the ones they mean they consulted with !

as to them not bothering to take part yes it likely these may not have chosen to take part but it as likely that those making this decision chose not to consult with those that dont agree with them in any meaningful way too

been there done it had it done to me ;)

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

That could take up to seven years to implement. Meanwhile, there would be a disparity in the way the children complied with the rules. That would not make it fair for those who had to follow the rules, from year seven. But, from what I believe, they had implemented a phasing in of the ties. I don't see what the problem is, it's not as if the ties cost a fortune, is it? Three or four pounds, I would have thought. If a parent has difficulty in affording any part of the school uniform, there is assistance for such things.

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

But that is no excuse for it to happen and this school is doing their best to stop it. What is wrong with that?

This is not the function of a PTA. They are there to provide additional and supplementary funding to the school budget. They are not their to be representative of the parents, in any decisions the school makes, that is what the board of governors are there for. The board of governors then contact ALL parents to consult them. If your school are using the PTA this way, they are not acting in a way which the local education authority/children's services would sanction. Neither would the NCPTA (National Confederation of Parent Teachers Associations). If you feel that the school is not providing adequate consultation and you are not getting a satisfactory answer from the headteacher, then talk to governors, that is what they are there for.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

1 it could take that long but likely would only take 5 as most schools have different ties for 6 and upper 6th and in any case they were taking 3 years to phase this in any way so it would only have been an extra 2 years

2 i can think of better things to worry about in behavior than ties

3 yes i know its not their job BUT that is who they mean when most school say they have consulted there was no vote taken parents were invited to a parents forum at which i expect many other topics were up for discussion as long as you agreed lol

a load of us did turn up for one of these meetings at our school on parking they had a room for 30 ! not the 200 that turned up most of us against the idea but strangely in the annual report they seemed to think their wide ranging consultation had agreed with them so i wouldn't read to much into any claims by the school on parental suport

so we are left with a school refusing to teach a child in its last year because of a tie which will likely end up costing the local authority a fortune as they will have to provide education for the child while the dispute goes through various channels most likely with home tutors all for the sake of which type of tie they wear

i am not against uniform rules but they shouldn't be changed for those already there imho you pick you rules let the new intake decide if they wish to come and obey or go else where thats ok but changing a rule and one where it seems they were following even if not all the same way to be daft

if i was the local authority ( as well as trying to get a compromise of the parents ) i would make the governors pay for the extra costs in educating a child they have already had the money to educate off the government

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

So...I don't see your problem, they have implemented a phasing in of the change, which is what you were asking for. Three years is plenty of time to phase in a change of uniform. But we are talking about a tie, not a whole uniform.

But standards are standards and the school has made the decision on uniforms and the children have to abide by them, because they are the rules. What next? Don't do the homework, because that changed? Or, because the school has decided that they will come down harder on bullies, the children don't have to abide by those rules, because they weren't the rules when they joined the school?

PTAs are not consulted about changes in uniforms. :rolleyes:

That is not the function of a PTA.


Why didn't you find somewhere else to park, get the bus, or walk? If you had a problem with their method of consultation, why didn't you challenge them about it?

The parents have withdrawn their child, not the school, it won't cost the LEA a penny.

So...if the children refuse to wear the existing uniform correctly and break the rules, why should the school stand for it? The school decided that they should wear a tie, which they can't abuse, but this child still didn't want to follow the rules. So she was sanctioned because of it; as is the prerogative of the school. Should the school not do this to children who break the rules?

As I said, the parents decided to withdraw the child, it won't cost them anything.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Flyboy, what price do you put on a child's education?
It may not cost the LEA, As you have stated, by the way, I do not know for certain if the parents can claim for educating their child at home, they may be able to.
For example, if one of the parents had to give up work so they are at home with the child, they could probably claim benefits of some type, so this whole thing may not be as " costless " as you think.
The tie should be an optional part of the uniform, and certainly not used as an excuse to deny a child an education.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

At my son's school, the tie is not an optional part of the uniform (or at any of the local schools), unless
a) you are in sixth form
b) it is "summer uniform", when polo shirts can be worn

And he and his friends were always being told to do up their ties (and tuck their shirts in).

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Quick, quick take them out ... their human rights are obviously being compromised.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

But in this case it's not. So if you send your kids to an establishemnt where there are rules to follow, shouldn't they be made to follow them. I hated wearing a tie in school, and shorts in the summer. But I, nor my parents, were going to let me miss out on my education simply because of the tie.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Saaf, whatever the rules the school have are, in my opinion, it is idiotic to not have the tie as an option.
You like others have a different take on the matter, that is fine.
The way our country is at the moment, around here at least, 200 people chasing one job, would the fact that a prospective employee wears a tie really sway an employer when they have no jobs?
The wearing of a tie should not be used to gauge a person.
There are more things that are important in the upbringing of kids than throwing a tie around their neck.
Sadly now missing it seems, basic good manners like holding the door open for someone, helping the old lady from the bus with her shopping trolley, basic simple things that can make our kids better people, hopefully.
So IMO the tie should be optional, that is my opinion, does not mean it has to be a shared one.
But as I have said before, although it may not cost the LEA directly in terms of paying for books etc for the child to be educated at home, what is the true cost, in terms of a child who has not had the usual mainstream educating?
Probably someone unable to mix with people, because they have been taught in a confined area.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Arca, it may not be fair, but the wearing of a tie (and how it is worn) can sway a prospective employer.

I was helping out a local college last week who were interviewing for the Head of IT position - one of the applicants came in with his neck undone (quite a bit), and the tie down at the first button down from the neck button.

The principal was less than impressed, as part of the job is to work with both internal and external senior management, and first impressions count.

btw, I hate wearing a tie, and when I left the forces I swore I would never wear another uniform (that so didn't work out, as most of the jobs I have had since then involved wearing a suit and tie).

It is about dressing appropriately, and if the child does not learn this lesson at school, what chance does she have in the real world? It may not be fair, but it's real.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

The rule might be idiotic to the child's parents but its still a rule that the school has. So rather than taking the child out of school because of teh rule, I would say that it would be more beneficial for the child in the long run to put up with the rule in favour of a school education.

The parents should think about this before they took their steps to remove her from school. They are the ones inflicting any disadvantages on their child, not the school.

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

I feel it's also about respecting rules of an establishment. If the parents are saying its ok for her not to follow the rules by taking her out of school, what sort of lesson does that give her for the future too.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

If they have a choice of 200 people, Employers can be swayed by the most petty of things..

The thing is that people assume that if you wear a suit and tie that you are more professional, and possibly more intelligent. There is no real scientific basis for this (indeed, the opposite is often true - I have met many smartly dressed people who are, to put it politely, as thick as the the proverbial), just a perception that a tidy exterior means you have a tidy mind. I don't believe there is any link, however.

The situation is gradually changing (more and more companies are allowing their staff to wear smart casual clothing at least for behind the scenes functions), but it's going to take a while yet.

As for Uniforms, I am actually in favour of them, particularly at school, but to some extent at work.

At school, not only do they teach people that they do sometimes have a dress code to adhere to, but they can help reduce bullying. The simple reason being that if everyone is wearing the same thing, no one can be beaten up or bullied for having better/worse clothes, or for not wearing the latest trainers. They can still be bullied for other stuff, it's not a total cure.

At work, uniforms can have a practical value. My Sainsbury's uniform was as uncomfortable as hell (cheap polyester and sweat are not a good combination), but it did have the advantage that it stopped me damaging my own clothes for work (important because, being a shelf stacker, there was at least a passing chance that my clothes would be damaged)..

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Why is this being twisted to make it the school's fault.

It was the parents that chose to take the child out of school, not the school telling the child to stay away

It's a uniform/dress code, I have one at work. If I don't adhere to it then I suffer the cosequences(warning letters, diciplinaries etc).

There are no religeous or health grounds for the girl not to wear a tie, she should just wear it and have done with it. She doesn't have any "rights" in this, and all her parents are doing is creating the impression that rules are not for everyone.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

But it is not the school who is denying the child an education, it is the parents. It is the parents who are refusing to send their darling little princess to school, because she doesn't want to wear a tie, just like all the other students do.

One cannot give up work and claim benefits in order to home educate a child. There are no funds, from government, national or local, that are available to access to provide for home education. If this had been the case, I would have taken this option a long time ago with Flyboy10 (a subject for another thread :)).

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

Any employer who is expecting a certain amount of professional commitment and gravity to the position they are offering, would at least expect a candidate to do the same. Whenever I interview someone for a position, I will always take into account their professional ability, their competency and their commitment to their future and to the recruitment process. That includes turning up for an interview appropriately prepared; including being dressed accordingly. If I am interviewing someone for a position as a project manager, for example, I will expect them to turn up with a copy of their CV, any references and a breakdown of what they want to achieve in the position and how they will accomplish it; I will also expect them to show me the courtesy of wearing a suit, shirt, collar and tie. If they turned up in t-shirt, jeans and trainers, they wouldn't even get in the door, because if they can't be bothered to commit to this, what can I expect from them as an employee.

You have described the very reason why it is important to follow the rules that are set out. They are there to educate children that there are rules to be followed and standards to be met. Otherwise we will never see those days again.

But the tie is not optional, in this case and that is the rule needs that to be followed.

But it is the parents who have decided to not allow her to go to the school, not the school. It is they who will have to make sure they educate their little princess in an appropriate manner, or they will fall foul of the law.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:30 ----------

With all of this said, I have to admit that Flyboy10 starts year seven, next year and the secondary school he is going to have actually deleted ties entirely from the uniform (he is most disappointed, as he loves wearing a tie, :shrug: go figure :)). For the very reason that the school in this thread had changed the tie to a clip on. But that still doesn't change the fact that this school has a rule and it needs to be followed. :)

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

1 they chose the worst way they should either implemented for all which they didn't so they already had some doing and some not or done it by natural wastage ie started with year 1 and just moved it up each year this problem wouldn't be here then

2and 3 i think i know its not the PTA job but thats how it works if it doesn't at your school you are lucky !

4 we did but still the school seemed to believe that despite most disagreeing that most had because their most is those they were choosing to consult with ;) not those of us who were disagreeing who they seemed to think didn't count

it cost them and the council quite a bit as once their method failed abysmally they had to do what we told them in the first place thus spending money which would have been better spent on redoing a car park almost the same as we started off with

5 on

it will while they are in dispute the council will end up forking out for home tutoring or even more likely they will end up with her being taught in a separate class room at the same school to get her through the exams

plus they now have a growing band of kids opposing ties altogether which will likely end up with no tie which i find even sadder

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

They have chosen the way they feel, as is their right, to carry out the change in the most efficient way. Taking five to seven years to change a uniform is not efficient, nor is it practical. It breeds contempt amongst those who will be made to feel different. To balance this effect, with the wishes of the parents to not have to spend more money on unnecessarily buying ties, they have planned it over a three year period. The average life-time of a school tie, is less than two years.

No PTAs are the sole form of parental consultancy, in any school I have ever heard of. So, instead of my school being the lucky one, I would say that it is the normal one.

:confused:

No it won't. The parents have decided to withdraw their child from state education. The cost will be theirs. She will not be given any extra help to get through her exams. If she has missed lessons because of her and her parents' stupidity, that is their look out.

No they don't. They have one stroppy, moody teenager with excessively over-indulgent parents, who can't say "no" to their little princess.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

I don't think the "clip on ties" were the issue here. I would be very against clip-on ties personally. Kids need to learn how to tie them. And if she were a well behaved pupil, maybe she would have gotten a warning so she could tell her parents about it. Also if they were going to be "phased in over 3 years" then whats the problem on the schools part? What if parents cant afford them right now?? So long as the tie is in the school colours or whatever, then the style, IMO is irrelevant!

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

i've been following this thread since it started and i have to say i aggree with Flyboy on this
the school have gone out of their way to implement the change ,a very minor change,and lets face it how much is a school tie ?i don't know ,my kids school doesn't have ties but i wouldn't expect to pay more than a fiver for a clip on so in my opinion the parents have pandered to a spoiled brat
when i was at school it was considered "fashionable"to wear a tie a certain way ,one year it was a huge knot ,the next a tiny knot ,and the bullies in the school would target kids with the wrong knot so i can see what the school are trying to do
the parents of this child should be gratefull to the school for making every effort to stamp out bullying

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

But it's very relevant. Having the tie at half-mast and the knot about a foot wide, disrespects the uniform and in turn, the school itself and looks slovenly. There is a dress code and the school has rules, so it is just as much to do with fllowing rulles in a wider sense than the actual tie.

If it was a case of learning to tie a tie, I would have thought that at fifteen, most teenagers would have already learned that.

The problem about the phasing, is that this little madam was part of the phased introduction, but decided that the rules do not apply to her, like they do to everyone else.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

Three points:

1. Clip on ties are a crime against style. I'd maybe wear one if it'd save my mum's life, but I'd make sure there was no photographic evidence, and I'd make it the rest of my life's work to track down and silence any witnesses.

2. If you've spent your teenage years wearing a clip on tie, how are you going to work out how to tie a real one when you go for your first job?

3. This dumb headmaster doesn't even understand what the point of a uniform rule is. Teenagers want to rebel. They want to break the rules. So give them a nice pointless rule that they can break without any ill effects for anyone. Far better to have them rebel by wearing not quite the right knot, rather than by vandalising things or shoplifting.

Re: We don't like the new school tie; our daughter isn't going to school.
 

True. I completely Agree.

Also true.

That wasn't the point at all... The point was, she was a good girl, not the usual rebel for the sake of being a rebel type. Maybe she genuinely didn't like the clip on tie and decided the proper tie one was better.

Also - nowhere in the article did it say that particular girl was one that wore her tie incorrectly :)

I stand by the "School Rules" thing. But being sent out of class for not having a clip on tie, is completely Over-The-Top!

If you were the teacher would you

(a)Kick her out of class because shes an evil rebel that needs to be taught a lesson (bearing in mind her "usual" demeanour)

or

(b)Give her a stern warning that it wasn't school uniform anymore and that tomorrow she needs the clip on one worn?

I'd choose b and then if it happened again and again further action would need to be taken.