Cable Theft - help required
 

Hello - Ive just joined and need some help.

All our neighbourhood lost their cable supply last week at it seems that it was due to some idiot stealing the cable feed to sell for its copper. Seemingly about 2,000 homes were affected.

I'm a insurance surveyor and remember that at a recent ABI meeting, we had a cop come to speak to us about new products. He talked alot about a new method of marking cable which they throught was great because he said the problem was they could find the stolen cable in a scrap yard but couldn't do anything because they couldn't prove it was stolen. This stuff changed all that because the theives couldn't burn it off.

But I can't remember its name!!! I want to tell VM about it because they said that BT, the Railways etc were already using it and it had reduced their thefts.

All I can remember - I was with somebody and wasn't paying that much attention at this point - is that it's a liquid, glows yellow under UV and contains a 'forensic fingerprint'(?) that can't be removed by the theives.

Can anybody point me in the right direction please?

Thanks


Phil

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

http://www.smartwater.com/Home.aspx

was it this ??

sorry swear filter doesn't like :) google "smart water"

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Smart water isn't any good with cable thieves as it can be burnt away when they melt the cable down

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Surely that depends on whether the thieves melt it down, or sell to a scrap yard? The OP talks about being able to identify the cable in the scrap yard.

http://www.smar****er.com/Media-Cent...de-thefts.aspx

(Swear filter again, but you get the drift)

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Yeah but before they do they also burn away the insulation as then it's pure copper and worth more, copper with a plastic jacket is worth less..

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

this new cable may or may not deter theft
but one thing is certain, no company is going to replace all its copper network to deter thieves ,cables are only replaced when the are no longer serviceable, so having a network of new cable would take a very long time to implement.

and as for smart water how do you get it on existing cable that is in under ground ducts ?

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Burnt copper is also worth less than copper thats had the plastic removed by cutting it off, not burning. I know this stuff you speak of, as I saw it on BBC news a few months ago, but I didn't know it couldn't be burnt off. Can't remember the name either.

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Fluorescein dye ?

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Yes, Smart Water, that's it - thanks everybody.

According to the cop, criminals hate it - they say so - so don't go near it...seems far-fetched but....

I'll investigate more and get back to you.


Cheers


Mark

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Unless VM have changed the cable they use, then the thieves are gonna get very little money for the copper in the cables they stole.... Seeing as any cable I ever used was made with an aluminium stinger, with only several microns of copper over the aluminium.... Very minimal amount of copper....

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

thats the coaxial

not the copper that joins dsa to street cab .

http://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/metals/ some prices insulated copper cable £1,000 per ton

infact looking at the prices for scrap i think im in the wrong end of the business .

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Updated, thanks to Kymmy et al

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Yep the copper theives are about.The main school I go to has all copper roofing(goes that really beautiful verdigris green colour) but there are gaps where the local chavvy yobby thieves have been nicking it...:mad:

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

We routinely have cables stolen where i live and while it is a stereotype i am afraid it is the two communitys of travellers that are responsible everytime also stealing the lead off an historic bell tower routinely as well. I am not sure there is any real 100% method for marking it so it can be identified after thieves have burnt it\cut it unless we are talking about minute marking of the copper strands something i would have thought that though possible would be very very expensive for any company to implement.

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Teesside, is the Virgin Media capital of copper theft, followed closely by certain areas of the capital.

In reality there is very little you can do about it. You can't lock all the chambers (although in certain areas in certain cities, this has been done)

It's not just copper, you get many would be theives cutting fibre, to check if it's copper - causes mayhem.

All you can do is get the police to visit scrap dealer and advise them not to take copper cabling from neferious types. If the scrap dealers don't buy it then no-one will nick it.

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Yep and if the scrap dealer doesn't buy it then he loses out on a lot of profit and another dodgy dealer down the road will take it ;)


You'll never get all the dealers to be 100% honest all the time :rolleyes:

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

If it happens at the same place every time, employ somebody with an airgun. ;)

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Yep and get done for firearms offences!!! Way to go!!! ;) :p:

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/8333774.stm

Will it ever stop?

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Yep, we used to find air guns were used a lot with the old overhead cable TV systems. The kids would shoot at the cables and when the got lucky it shorted from inner to outer conductor tripping the line power and shutting down the network.

Oh I see, you meant VM use air guns:)

The cases back when I worked for ntl where main hub fibres had been cut were by disgruntled ex-employees recently made redundant, or contractors that had not been paid or laid off.

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Right - my role in the insurance industry means that I've been busy digging up more info about this ...and, although naturally cynical, I actually think it's quite encouraging.

It seems that the police, utilities, EIG (church insurer) and smart water have teamed up with the recyclers (Sita, EMR and Booths) to close down the commercial outlets for stolen cable/metal. The problem they've had in the past is finding a surefire way of identifying stolen cable/metal but up stepped SmartWater. They have developed a solution that will withstand the smelting process (its been tested, I'm assured).

Now they can identify stolen cable/metal, the police are now motivated to hit the dodgy scrap metal dealers (160+ in the last 6 months) and the recyclers are refusing to buy anything marked with smart water.

So, it seems to be coordinated, joined up thinking - it's a case of 'watch this space but early results look promising - so fingers crossed!

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

in my job we have numerous ocassions where cable gets nicked, sometimes it's fresh stuff on drums - not exactly stuff you can just carry away (usually gets chopped into short lengths and gets carted off).

or on a few of our sites, they have just pulled it out live - 415v and 100A+ up your jacksey - no thankyou. but they know what they're doing, they cut through the armour and into one phase and the nuetral and spike it which in turn trips the protection breaker and thus making the cable dead, which can then be chopped and carted.

and with the cables we use there is a lot of copper to be had - and landfills are hard places to watch due to locations.

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Is the amount of copper used in fibre optics worth the bother of digging it all up and stealing it?

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

no -if a fibre cable has any copper its usually just a couple of control pairs for switching purposes most don't have any ,its the local loop where you find the copper telephony cables .

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

Is that from the cabinet to the subscribers' properties?

Re: Cable Theft - help required
 

not really its from the mux cab[level 3/main] to the level4/cab in your street
from the street cab to property is worthless .

in the bt network copper runs from the exchange to the street cab and on to the poles . they don't normally use fiber in there local network .