Small connection issue
 

Hey there.

I live in a remote place called Harlosh in Scotland, and getting broadband here is pretty hard to come by, but I have Virgin Media Cable so at least its something.

The problem is, when we first got the broadband, I could play the PS3 online (CoD4) and I could watch YouTube videos without them taking ages to load. But now, its the complete opposite.

I phoned Virgin and they said the best connection I can get is 0.5mb/s and I appreciate what they are saying, but there has been a massive drop in my connection (whether it be bandwidth or something else) and I'm not sure what it is.

To give you a rough idea, here is an example:
Lets say a YouTube video is 3 minutes long; it would take about 7 minutes to buffer when before I could watch it and it would buffer just fast enough for me to watch all of it. (I know about how the bit-rate of the video, HD and everything effects the loading time, but I'm talking about the exact same crappy video taking way longer than usual)

Oh and if you're wondering, I have tried other video websites such as Dailymotion and Metacafe and the results are all the same; slow slow slow.

Speed Test results: - http://www.speedtest.net/
Download: 0.49 mb/s
Upload: 0.35 mb/s

Ping Test results: - http://www.pingtest.net/
Packets Lost: All.
Ping: 57 ms
Jitter: 2 ms

So I was just wondering if someone could help to get my connection back on track because I really want to play CoD4 again and for CoD6 coming out in November 10th (whoop whoop!). It may be my router, but I'm pretty sure there is no way to tell unless I got a new one, right?

Thanks for any help.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Are you sure that you are actually on Virgin Media CABLE broadband and not the Virgin National product supplied down an ordinary BT phone line?

What do you get for the Host name from the following address?

http://cableforum.co.uk/board/misc.php?do=connection

Please exclude the first part of the address which will probably be an IP address.

Something like the following:

nn-nnn-nnn-nnn.cable.ubr04.livi.blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Small connection issue
 

No, I'm not 100% but they did say it was Cable because it's the only thing we can get here in Harlosh and yes, it is probably being supplied down an original BT phone line.

Host: client-ip-ip-ip-ip.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com *

*ip being my actual IP number, so I didn't want to show it.

Re: Small connection issue
 

The adsl in this address shows that you are not on CABLE (which was always very doubtful due to your remoteness) but your broadband is the normal down-the-bt-line broadband, supplied by Virgin Media.

Try putting your postcode or telephone number into the following webpage and see what speed BT say you should get.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...erview_BB_home

Given your remoteness, it would not surprise me that what you have been told by Virgin Media and seen in your own speedtest results is true - a broadband download speed of 0.5Mb.

Your issue with the applications you mention may then be down to increased contention on your very remote line because some of your very few neighbours now have broadband whereas before they didn't.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I understand what you're saying about the line usage has probably created the poor speeds, but it cannot be that. I know all my neighbors, and we have all had broadband for the same time. I remember the days of dial-up and we all got broadband at the same time, and a few others afterward, but not longer than a few months.

I live 5 miles away from the exchange, and there is roughly 40 people in Harlosh.

The BT confirms that we can only have 0.5 Mb/s at this time, and I already knew that because VirginMedia told me that when I phoned them.

I'm not convinced, at all, that its due to more people connecting to the line because there has been one new person move to Harlosh in the last 5 or so years, and more people have actually moved away/died.

Here is my result from the BT line-checker:
"We have tested your line and can confirm your line supports the UK's most complete broadband package, BT Total Broadband. We estimate your maximum connection speed to be 0.256Mbps, which is the fastest speed your line can currently support."

How can my connection go from decent (for where I life) to absolutely terrible? For no apparent reason.

Re: Small connection issue
 

The speed will be purely due to the distance from the exchange. Line attenuation on 5 miles is quite severe..

Re: Small connection issue
 

Please, I would appreciate if you read what I have written. I know what you're saying.

My connection was fine, it was totally fine 5 or so months ago. I could play CoD4 on PS3 without any issues (now, I can log in once out of 20 attempts and the lag makes it unplayable.) and I could play YouTube videos and watch movies online (but now, I cannot do either. I have noticed a massive drop, its not like its unnoticeable).

Re: Small connection issue
 

Although you say that the same number of residents of your small area are using broadband as previously, you need to understand that all broadband users everywhere are using more and more of the resource all the time.

You simply have to look at webpages which you may browse. They are starting to have more and more adverts on each page and those adverts are more sophisticated and use up more and more of your bandwidth.

You can be sure that the newer version of the program you want to use will be more resource-intensive and use more of your available bandwidth.

I'm afraid that you are between a rock and a hard place. You have to trade your tranquill location against a very poor broadband service.

Re: Small connection issue
 

This why (in my first post) I was wondering if the problem lies with bandwidth allocation.

Is there something I can do to test it, for it being too high (ha ha) or too low? Or something else?

And, it's not like it was gradual the change of connection; it was instantly, over night. It went from fine to really poor.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I think what you are failing to understand is that you and your fellow remote residents share a fixed bandwidth which you are each using more of. There is currently no more for you to use until BT get round to giving you some more.

You have used up your limited resource. Things won't get any better. They will only get worse as the applications you are using become more resource-intensive.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I do understand that, I fully understand that.

Either way, that is amazingly crappy. I think our line is getting updating in 2011 so not too long I guess.

Well thanks for all the information and help, much appreciated. I'm going to give Virgin Media a phone and ask them about my bandwidth allocation.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Try this link to see if you have alternatives.

http://www.farina1.com/adsl/

I can't vouch for the results but you might be able to see where I'm going. I don't know if Virgin National use ADSL2+ and there's no consensus about whether or not ADSL2+ can improve reliability or speed. It all depends on attenuation and SNR. You'll need to winkle these numbers out of your router by logging onto the router and reading out from the status screen. We'd like to see those figures here, too.

As to what may have changed - it's a complex set of possibilities. I'll try and explain. The key word is CONTENTION. I'll assume for added "simplicity" that your VM service has bought BT capacity wholesale and haven't installed any infrastructure from your local exchange.

1/
You have an individual line to the exchange. You don't share anything with anyone else at this point.

2/
At the exchange up to 50 lines converge into a box where the signal is converted for use across the network and is then piped at 4 Mbps to a router. If you have 40 houses in Harlosh and 20 of them are bashing away at ½ Mbps, there is already contention and oversubscription on the available 4 Mbps.

3/
At your exchange either more villages come in to separate boxes as in (2) above and everything is then put into the network cloud (ATM) at 155 Mbps or if yours is a purely local exchange it goes to a larger exchange at 30 Mbps where it is concentrated onto the 155 Mbps pipe.

4/
Referring to (3) above, you'd really need to know what's at Harlosh exchange. How many villages (each one narrowed into the 4 Mbps pipe) are contending for the 30 Mbps pipe to the larger exchange. (Or the 155 Mbps pipe from Harlosh if it's a larger exchange, or how many smaller exchanges focus on a larger exchange and then feed 155 Mbps).

5/
The 155 Mbps pipe goes into the BT network cloud, routed to a PoP (Point of Presence). I don't know the basis for this routing - whether or not there is some algorithm to allow load balancing across the POPs (there are at least 11 BT PoPs in the cloud). Anyway, when you are routed at logon to a PoP, you reach a RAS (Remote Access Server handling thousands of connexions from hundreds of exchanges = contention) which authenticates you and assigns an IP address and during your session you are subsequently passed through to BT's Internet Backbone running at GigaBit rates. Since you don't know what anyone else is trying to do on the internet, there is more contention for you to consider.

6/
From BT's backbone, you go to a Gateway. Here the ISPs (like VM) lease a pipe of 155 Mbps or 622 Mbps depending on what they want to pay BT. Another point of traffic contention. Is VM 155 or 622? Have VM suddenly brought on a number of new subscribers from a number of additional exchanges? That adds to a change in contention you experience.

7/
So you've reached VM via the Gateway. Who knows what goes on in there and on the web?

8/
Oh - by the way, upstream capacity is about 50% of downstream. So there's delay and contention there to consider.

So - you see anything could have, and probably did, change pretty well overnight. And that's assuming you haven't changed any network card settings.

Finally, unless I missed something in your earlier posts, did you askyour neighbours what's happening to them?

Whew. End of massive!

Re: Small connection issue
 

Well first off, thank you for even taking the time to write all of that! It really is massive! Very informative though, thank you.

As for my neighbors, I asked one of them tonight actually and guess what? They done a speed test on http://www.speedtest.net and came back with these results:
Download: 1.81 mb/s
Upload: 0.33 mb/s

Now tell me this; how can she (her name is Sarah) get a better connection than me, and she actually lives further away from the exchange than I do.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Because speedtest.net is crap. I use http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/ for quick tests.

Re: Small connection issue
 

It is not crap, it is the actual speed test website VirginMedia told me to use. But, because I'm a nice guy, and to make you happy I shall use that website and make my friend Sarah do that test as well.

Speed Test results: - http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/
Download: 480 Kbps
Upload: 337 Kbps

Re: Small connection issue
 

It is crap! For example, if I use their Maidenhead server I get a ridiculously low speed number. If I use their London server, I get a number consistent with what I feel I'm experiencing. If you can be bothered to trawl through this forum, you'll see much of this discussed,

I suppose it's not always crap - but inconsistency of objective report is pretty crappy.

Anyway, I'm trying to help you out not to make myself happy. For a long time I used two speed tests (one of themk speedtest.net) to validate each other. I concluded that speedtest.net was unreliable and for your convenience labelled that as "crap".

My main aim is to help you understand what could have changed to account for your experience. One of the reasons I asked to see your attentuation and SNR figures is to see whether there is something there to justify your reported speed.

Your neighbour's figures would be helpful too. If your figures are worse, there may be a problem at your BT incoming plate - or water in the overhead wire (I had that a few years ago before I took VM) and BT totally rewired the pole strung segments, sealed it nicely and I now get (on my spare O2 ADSL2+) 50% better throughput.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I have always found it to be accurate and I get the same results as other websites, plus it looks nicer! Anyway, I'm no expert but I know speed tests aren't the same for everyone and your connection varies from the morning to late night, so there is no easy way to tell specially during peak times.

How do I figure out my attenuation and SNR figures?

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Up to you about speedtest.net. Pretty doesn't mean accurate. But what do I know?

What is your network equipment setup? what connects to the ADSL filter and what connects to your PC? Model name please. There'll be a login you can do and you should be able to get some stats from the device. If it's a VM supplied device, I'd have to look at what uswer functions are available or some other brainio would then know.

Re: Small connection issue
 

[edit] IGNORE the previous edit I forgot you were on Adsl :p:

Re: Small connection issue
 

My router (Netgear DG834G v4) connects to my computer (Compaq) via Ethernet. My router connects to the ADSL filter and so does my main telephone (Philips). Nothing else connects to my router (besides wirelessly) and nothing else connects to my computer.

It is a supplied router from VirginMedia and I'm not sure what you're asking? Do you want me to tell you all the options on the left hand side that I am able to click on once I log in?

Re: Small connection issue
 

I've looked at the DG834G Reference Manual and sadly the status information I'm looking for (which my Draytek ADSL router provides) is not available on the Netgear.

This is a shame. We can calculate from these figures (attenuation & SNR) what your lne speed should be under cureent conditions. If this differs from the ½ Mbps that you are expecting, we can go into why (as per the example in ,y previous post). So that's a dead end.

Re: Small connection issue
 

So what now?

Re: Small connection issue
 

So, forgetting all the argument about speedtest.net (which centred on your neighbour's odd reading), both speed checks report your speed as nominal.

Has your neighbour (Sarah) reported problems of the type you're experiencing? Like if you take your PS3 round to her place, will it behave as you expect? This is an acid test of some value, I think. It will eliminate or confirm the big whew speech I wrote.

If it works fine at Sarah's then you've most likely got a local problem. You'd need to check at your own place immediately before and after the test at Sarah's.

I think that damp pole strung wires would have produced a worse speed check result. Somewhere on this forum there is a rather more severe speed test check you could perform - I'll leave you to search for that and there's quite a discussionon the subject.

So I'd go back to something insightful that you said in your first post reproduced above in blue.

I don't think your modem is misbehaving. But the attenuation & SNR data is of interest and a modem with that kind of diagnostic would be immensely helpful - but not a reasonable price to pay for your troubles, perhaps.

So, the main "what next" recommendation is to go round Sarah's with your PS3 and see what happens.

Re: Small connection issue
 

FWIW I'd try changing the ADSL filter.

Also are you sure there is nothing else plugged into the line, like a sky box.

Re: Small connection issue
 

At last - some added wisdom to help Stuart!

Actually on a wood for the trees basis, your simple suggestion is a valuable step before looking at new routers etc, especially if we can't read the attenuation/SNR levels.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Thanks for the replies again guys, much appreciated.

I don't really feel comfortable going round to Sarah's house, though I did ask her to do the speed test with the link provided (not the speedtest.net one) and I asked her to see how long a normal YouTube video takes to load.

There is nothing else plugged into the line; but when I plug in the Sky Box (when we pay to watch a Box Office movie) the internet actually goes off until we unplug the Sky box.
The Sky box connects to the master port in my sitting room

Oh, and I have changed the ADSL filter.. many times. I changed the old ones and I changed the new ones.

Re: Small connection issue
 

So, how long did it take for the same video to load at Sarah's? (I realise it prolly wasn't the same video - but having controlled conditions is important).

If you can't make a reasonable comparison with a neighbour, it strikes me that diagnosis will be very difficult.

Re: Small connection issue
 

She has not got back in touch with me, she is just back from France and isn't too well.

I chose this video to watch in non-HQ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCl0AvwLXlU

The video is 1:50 and it took 3:30 to fully buffer. I shall tell you Sarah's results when she gets back to me, but I know for a fact it will be faster than that! That was painful to time that.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I think it's in everybody's interests (not just yours) to pool knowledge about your situation. if not Sarah, then someone else.

You see our difficulty - we're here and you've got the performance issue that you have asked us to diagnose. At this distance, we can only advise as we have done.

So it's Sunday - you hopefully know a few people in your village.

Re: Small connection issue
 

So? You're waiting for Sarah's results from the video and speed test just like me? I'm going to give VirginMedia a phone later to see if they can help or at least give an insight, but I'm sure they will just ask for proof about Sarah's connection speed she is getting.

Sarah's news:

Speed Test results: - http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/
Download: 1856 kbps
Upload: 358 kbps

It took her 1:12 to load the YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCl0AvwLXlU)

Re: Small connection issue
 

Sarah's speed is a mystery. Two different speed checks have confirmed her extraordinarily high rate. She is on VM or what?

Your modem is not ADSL2+ capable so far as I can see. If your neighbour is not on VM but say on a BT ADSL2+ service, that would be interesting. What router does Sarah have?

Re: Small connection issue
 

My router is ADSL2+; on the back of my router it says:
"54 Mbps Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Router DG834g v4."

Sarah is with BT, so she will have one of them BT-provided routers. A Home-hub I believe it is called?

Re: Small connection issue
 

The manual for your router that I downloaded didin't say ADSL2+. So I stand corrected there.

Well, now we aren't comparing like for like. Have you contacted BT and asked them what speed you'll get if you switch to them? You can mention Sarah's 1.8 Mbps.

Virgin won't be interested in the least in a BT customer's throughput.

I'm almost back to the damp in the pole strung line theory. Someone's got to sort this out.

Added:

Just read the intervening post. Our ideas are converging (though no solution to the VM speed problem).

Re: Small connection issue
 

Just off the phone to BT; exactly the same answer. We can only get 0.5 mb/s even though Sarah gets almost 2 mb/s.

It's the fact that no one can justify why Sarah gets such a good connection and ours is crappy.

I'm at ends with this already.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Is there is any way for me to check whether there is actually a fault with my home wiring or sockets etc, or something like that? Would that mean phoning and actually asking for an engineer to check for faults (paying lots for him to be there) but there might not be any faults?

Re: Small connection issue
 

When I had this problem, BT sent the rig round and found the damp and attenuation in the pole strung segment. With perserverance and insistence, you should be able to obtain similar service.

Have a look inside the first BT distribution point. Perhaps take a photo and post it here in case it reveals something (slightly possible).

BTt do the whole circuit to your house AFAIK and hand off to VM right at the back end. So you need to lean on BT stressing the unreasonable difference between you and your neighbour.

Keep us posted.

(P.S. I've been left alone on this one! Is everyone else only cable oriented?)

Re: Small connection issue
 

I have stressed to BT and VirginMedia. I have phoned them countless times and they have absolutely no idea what to do, and just keep saying all we can get is 0.5 mb/s.

Re: Small connection issue
 

You mentioned plugging in the sky box causes the Internet to die - that suggests that you are plugging it either directly into the telephone socket or into a faulty ADSL filter.

Expanding this thought - can you make sure you remove all other equipment from the internal telephone wiring - e.g. phones, sky boxes, burglar alarms. Are you then able to plug your modem into an ADSL socket plugged into teh master BT socket? Try re-running the test.

For even better results andif you feel comfortable with doing it - carefully remove the front plate of the master socket and plug the modem directly into the socket inside - try re-running the test.

These will start to rule out internal wiring, micro-filters, other equipment but to be honest the distance you are away from the exchange may be prohibitive - doesn't entire;y explain why you used to & your neighbour appear to get better speeds.

Out of interest did you run speedtest before when all was apparently running faster.

May also be worth checking out the forums on Thinkbroadband.com which may be a bit more ADSL centric then this one.

Re: Small connection issue
 

the problem with calling BT is that they don't have anything in their agreements with you to provide ADSL over the circuit.

I'm not sure if the tech support guys you call in Virgin will be able to log a fault to get line checks and so on done, but that might be an idea

Re: Small connection issue
 

This is the classic rock & a hard place for Stuart.

But if he wants to switch to BT, he can get the circuit looked at as part of the lure. In any case, it's all BT's up to the VM leased line from the Gateway.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I've worked in a number of companies that provide ADSL through BT - it's easy enough to do whoosh tests and things to see there is a problem, it's getting BT to send a tech that can be a pain...

this makes everyone else look like they are providing poor service, not just Virgin, but also other re-sellers.

as a customer just ask for a fault to be logged with BT regardless =)

Re: Small connection issue
 

Thanks for all the replies; sorry I've been late replying. I was out at the weekend and I got Uncharted 2: Among Thieves for PS3 so I'm glued to that right now!

I have done tests before (the connection went bad) and my download was little under 1 Mb/s and I know I had this as I could play the PS3 games online with that connection and YouTube videos loaded a lot faster than now.

I've had a lot of help from bomber_g who I'd like to say a big thanks too!

I'm going to give VirginMedia a phone, ask them to log a fault and then phone up BT and ask them to log a fault as well - whether that actually happens, I'll have to wait and see.

I am going to do some of the things Pog66 suggested to see if there is faults with the ADSL filters. I do not think there is though as we just got new ADSL filters sent to us, to replace older ones we had.

I will reply back with the good / bad news.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I get the same download / upload results when testing through the master socket.

My only other option is to get BT / VirginMedia to do a line test and check if something is wrong (which it has to be).

Does anyone know the website for BT line test?

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

For the speed test (which I doubt will work for you as a VM costomer): http://speedtester.bt.com/

For the line test: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl

Re: Small connection issue
 

They aren't the links I am looking for but thanks for getting them nonetheless and went and entered the details into them too.

The website just basically makes you enter your email, telephone number, mobile number and other details so BT can get back in touch with you. You also give some information about the fault and there is a drop-down menu of options that corresponds to the line problem you are having.

Thanks so far to everyone though.

Re: Small connection issue
 

When I was on BT ADSL the speedtester.bt.com site ran a speed test.

So what were you looking for?

Re: Small connection issue
 

Some additional information from dlschecker.bt.com:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 510 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 50-500 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :1248 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 500 Kbps

---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

It's a BT website where you can file a fault on the line and they do checks on that line and contact you at a later date and inform you whether there is a fault or not.

Re: Small connection issue
 

So, with all this 512K stuff on the speedtest, are your problems over for now?

Re: Small connection issue
 

No - it's just not the connection I had before.

Have we gone off track or have I missed something? I need to get a line test done, a proper line test.

I still cannot play any PS3 game online nor have YouTube videos buffer normally.

Re: Small connection issue
 

This speed issue / latency will be due to:

* Distance from exchange
* Contention
* possible fault on the line
* Poor kit in the exchance

------------------

Now. Do you have your equipment in the test socket? As thats the first step. Take off the face plate on your master socket, plug your kit into the test socket.

Secondly. How are you connected. Wifi? If so, change to ethernet, especially for the PS3

Third. Do you have any other kit on the phone line? Sky box, etc?

Fourth. Do you have an extension.

Fifth. Is there any "noise" on your phone when you make a phone call - or an echo?

Sixth - have you changed your micro filters

Seventh - what router / modem do you have?

Should give us some more help

Re: Small connection issue
 

1. I have tried the master socket as I posted before and it's working fine and I get the same test results through it.

2. My computer is connected via ethernet. I have tested my PS3 via wireless (it's about a foot away from the router) and I get the same results via ethernet.

3. There is nothing plugged into the master socket (that is where we plug the Sky connector into when we're buying a movie). In this room where the computer is, the phone and router are connected to the socket. When I connection the Sky cable to the (master) socket, the DSL and Internet light go completely blank on my router.

4. What do you mean extension? House extension, then no (but I'm sure that's not what you mean).

5. There is no noise or echo or anything of that nature.

6. Yes, I have changed them around to check for faults. We have new and old ones - I have tried both and they work fine.

7. My router is a Netgear DG834G v4 - Wireless ADSL2+ Modem Router.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Ok. Thanks - dial this from your line

"17070" - making sure your kit is plugged into the test socket option 2

if you get the ”There is no CLI detected for this circuit”. Dial 1470 17070

Disconnect the modem though.

EDIT: All of this seems like contention - save your self alot of hassle and stress - move to BE* I'm on BE* as I can;t get VM Cable - and I get 16MB

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/10/21.png

Re: Small connection issue
 

I checked with BE* broadband and I got this:

"Sorry, but your phone line is unable to support our broadband. Please contact your telephone provider if you require further details."

I think BE* is out of the question as well.

So I plug my telephone into the master socket, without my router connected and phone 17070 and press the corresponding key for Option 2?

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Correct.


I assume your line is with VM aswell. If so move your line back to BT then order with BE* far superior. Thast the setup I got works a treat. No complaints.

Re: Small connection issue
 

That may be the case for you, but do you live 6.7 kilometers away from your exchange? I think this is also a big factor, even though I know I had 1 Mb/s before and my neighbor is getting little under 2 Mb/s.

I shall phone 17070 just now and reply back in a few minutes with the results.

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Well be is pretty stable everywhere, I live aboiut 2 / 2 1/2 miles away

Re: Small connection issue
 

Option 2 was a 'quiet line test' and I'm guessing I was suppose to just check for noise, crackling, squeaking etc but it came up all clear; no noises.

I do not think we can get BE* as they said when I typed in my telephone number on their website line checker that it was "unable to support" their broadband.

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

This is likely because your phone line is with Virgin aswell?

Re: Small connection issue
 

So you're telling me if I done a check on any other broadband provider, they would say that their broadband is unsupported?

Hmm.

Re: Small connection issue
 

If you are using a Virgin phone line I would say your answer will be unsupported as they usually require a BT phone line to work.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I think webcrawler250 went off the mark with this Be stuff and a VM phone line. He was spot on with his succinct summary of my first post in this thread:

This speed issue / latency will be due to:

* Distance from exchange
* Contention
* possible fault on the line
* Poor kit in the exchange

Any ADSL provider, Be included were they to offer you a service, is carried through BT's cloud up to the ISP Gateway. So whomever you do internet with, you've got to crack your local loop problem.

Sarah's data has shown that the Harlosh system is capable of 1 Mbps.

What we're lacking in your case is the proper diagnostic measure (that I first mentioned) to see what's cooking between your house and the exchange.

VM buy capacity from BT Wholesale who sell capacity to BT Retail (your phone service). BT Openreach is the creature that serves both arms of BT to cure local problems. So, either VM ask BT Wholesale to ask BT Openreach to investigate your situation, or BT Retail do so.

The former course is a matter of proper customer care by VM; the latter is proper treatment by BT of a potential broadband customer.

Either way, someone needs to be very firm and persistent at both ends of the customer services chain.

That's the best we can now advise, I feel.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Maybe a little the point I was making. If the OP moves his phone line back to BT he isn't restricted for options if he comes to move. From what i've seen, VM National service is complete and utter gob mess - personally move to a "better" provider - avoid the likes of Talk Talk anyone who is free - My first choice would be BE* Or 02 - although, they are both the "same" if your an 02 customer - you can get some good deals.

Re: Small connection issue
 

So basically if VirginMedia / BT do not get this sorted, I may as well change to a different broadband provider - is that what you're saying?

I shall phone up VirginMedia and ask for a whoosh test, then ask BT to do one too. Will they contact me afterward or does it only take a few seconds down the phone?

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

BT won't do it - Virginmedia will do it via the OpenReach panel they have - or atleast should. What I am saying is, if you cant get it sorted, I would do this

Move your phone line to BT line rental aswell.
Move your broadband to BE*

Re: Small connection issue
 

Why should I move my phone line to BT line rental?

I shall phone VirginMedia soon and ask them to do a whoosh test. I'm completely stuffed if they do not.

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Well at the moment, you are restricted - technicall it's not a "BT" Line - thus moving your line to BT will give you better options for broadband etc.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Well that was fun!

I phoned up Virgin, and all they said was: "You're very far from your exchange."

That was after asking them to do a 'whoosh test' which they did not do, they also told me to try my master socket, which I told them I have tried many times already.

Why can they not just do a 'whoosh test' like I asked them? Why?

Getting pretty frustrated now.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Save yourself LOTS of hassle. Move your line to BT - move to better ISP - reccomendations for a "decent" ADSL service


BE* / 02
PLUSNET

Re: Small connection issue
 

This thread scares me.

Has anyone asked the OP who he actually pays his line rental to, or asked for line stats from his ADSL modem / router?

As a reminder it would appear they have more options than just Virgin on their phoneline:

5 pages of rigmarole for what's probably nothing more than a noisy line (note the 500kbps IP Profile that BT's DLM has set on his 1.2Mbps sync, this is abnormally low and indicates instability) that could be resolved through something as simple as removing ring wire which is soaking up noise or installing a filtered face plate such as one available from http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

It's also worth noting that Alcatel modems also work well on longer lines and have given some excellent results on BT Wholesale lines.

If OP is a low bandwidth user they may also find some value from this.

Migration to another mass-market ISP isn't going to fix it, Be won't even accept orders from very long lines, resolving the line issue at home or using an ISP that guarantees to resolve it will.

So, OP, what ADSL modem / router are you using, so that some line stats and error stats can be obtained please?

Re: Small connection issue
 

I've posted already what my router is, but I guess you cannot be bothered reading back several pages to find it which I can understand: Netgear DG834G v4 ADSL2+ Modem Router.

Would it really be worth it, getting one of them faceplates? I thought buying one of them was pretty much the same as plugging my router straight into the master socket, no?

Re: Small connection issue
 

Thanks, please see below:

A faceplate gives the same effect as plugging into the test point on the NTE / master socket. It is however not the same as just using the master itself, if you were to take the front off the master you would be able to locate this test point.

I see Sephiroth asked you for the stats but couldn't find where to get them - good man!

Re: Small connection issue
 

ADSL Link----------------------Downstream-------------Upstream
Connection Speed---------------992 kbps----------------448 kbps
Line Attenuation-----------------63.0 db-----------------31.5 db
Noise Margin---------------------9.6 db------------------15.0 db

Re: Small connection issue
 

Cheers.

I take it you've run through this process: http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/view-master.html

Re: Small connection issue
 

Yes, I have done that; everything works as normal.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Roger that.

Can you try another router at all?

Some work better with BT's kit than others.

Your line may take a different route to other people making it a touch longer, however it's hard to be certain as your line is so long your router doesn't accurately measure it as it only goes up to 63dB attenuation ;)

Re: Small connection issue
 

That was one of the things BT told me when I phoned them; that our line could take a longer route that our neighbor who is getting just shy of 2 MB/s.

But in any case, she is still over 5 miles away from her exchange even with a completely strange line, and even if our line takes a longer route, Harlosh is pretty small (as in tiny) so it cannot be that big a difference.

No, I cannot try another router, sorry -- I don't particularly want to buy a new one either, unless it really is the problem.

Re: Small connection issue
 

OK it was more for diagnostic purposes.

Please try and reset your modem tomorrow morning / afternoon after 9am and see what it syncs up at. If it's higher than 1152kbps leave it be. Note the SNR margin and check this every so often so we can see how much it swings during the day.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Well done Broadbandings for the backdoor to these stats.

Just what I was looking for. Stuart knows what's coming next. What are her neighbour Sarah's stats? He needs ammunition to get BT out to look at the attentuation on what I take to be his pole strung segment (damp, rust, etc).

Downstream attenuation needs to be < 50 dB to have anything like 1 Mbps.

Noise Margin needs to be > 7dB to avoid synch problems.

So, Stuart MUST get the engineers out. We'll be going round in circles otherwise.

Incidentally, I thought Stuart had a BT phone line and a Virgin ADSL (using the Gateway (IP stream)). If it is a Virginphone line it's a strange arrangement since it's a remote exchange and there will be no Virgin LLU, IMO.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Okay, I will reset my router at 11am and post the results here, then edit my post every hour from then onwards for you to get the proper picture; I also wont watch any YouTube videos etc so the line isn't stressed.

I don't really feel comfortable asking my neighbor for these stats as she isn't the most technically minded. And, I will have to find out what model of router she has too, will I not?

In fact, I shall turn off my router for 10 minutes just now then fire it up again and post the results, just for the sake of it.

Oh, in my very first post, when I done a 'ping' test it said all packets were lost. Is that not a big worrying? Seen as no one bothered to say anything about packet loss, I though I should ask, to be safe.

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

You can get 1.5 or even 2+Mbit out of 60dB attenuation if the line is clean enough, however the router can only display 63dB so chances are the line is even longer than that.

There are some Virgin services that use Wholesale Line Rental / WLR so you pay Virgin line rental but use BT Wholesale provided line and DSL. LLU isn't required to charge line rental as well.

We need to confirm SNR variance, getting neighbour's stats would also be a bonus however the chances are that BT won't be too interested as it does sound like an exceptionally long line and someone like A+A would be needed to beat them into sorting it :(

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Don't worry about stressing the line, stress it as much as you want it won't change the stats.

If you can ask your neighbour if she's nice enough that'd rock.

Not worried about 100% packet loss, if you did actually have 100% packet loss you'd have a hard time getting onto here :)

Re: Small connection issue
 

After over 10 minutes letting my router cool off (turned it off from the plug) here are the stats:

ADSL Link----------------------Downstream-------------Upstream
Connection Speed---------------576 kbps----------------448 kbps
Line Attenuation-----------------63.0 db-----------------31.5 db
Noise Margin---------------------9.6 db------------------15.0 db

Before I turned the router off, the 'Noise Margin' Downstream was 6.5 db, but it's back up now after resetting. Seems like the 'Connection Speed' Downstream has changed for the worse, too.

After typing this, and refreshing the stats page the 'Noise Margin' Downstream is 12.0 db.

I love how the title of this thread is 'Small connection issue' when it clearly isn't, and there is 6 pages of replies! Maybe it should be renamed to "*Small* connection issue" for sarcasms sake. ;D

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

How am I meant to get an engineer out when Virgin think there is nothing wrong with our line/connection and that it is functioning as normal. I would have to blatantly lie to them for them to send out an engineer.

Re: Small connection issue
 

I shall start taking note of the stats tomorrow, once I reset my router at 11am.

I will record them every half hour, posting them here. I will date the stats, so it's easier to know when the the stats might be worrying.

Good night for just now, thanks for all the help so far!

Re: Small connection issue
 

11:00am:

ADSL Link ---------------------- Downstream ------------- Upstream
Connection Speed --------------- 1472 kbps ---------------- 448 kbps
Line Attenuation ----------------- 63.0 db ----------------- 31.5 db
Noise Margin --------------------- 9.4 db ------------------ 16.0 db

11:30am:

ADSL Link ---------------------- Downstream ------------- Upstream
Connection Speed --------------- 1472 kbps ---------------- 448 kbps
Line Attenuation ----------------- 63.0 db ----------------- 31.5 db
Noise Margin --------------------- 9.4 db ------------------ 16.0 db

12:00am:

ADSL Link ---------------------- Downstream ------------- Upstream
Connection Speed --------------- 1472 kbps ---------------- 448 kbps
Line Attenuation ----------------- 63.0 db ----------------- 31.5 db
Noise Margin --------------------- 9.3 db ------------------ 16.0 db

12:30am:

ADSL Link ---------------------- Downstream ------------- Upstream
Connection Speed -------------- 1472 kbps ---------------- 448 kbps
Line Attenuation ----------------- 63.0 db ----------------- 31.5 db
Noise Margin --------------------- 9.4 db ------------------ 15.0 db

Noise Margin seems to be fine, but there has been a massive increase in the Connection Speed since yesterday, even though when watching a YouTube video it loads at the same speed as when I had 575 kbps.

Re: Small connection issue
 

How can BT say this:

"Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that it is VERY UNLIKELY you will be able to receive fixed 512Kbps or 256Kbps broadband service due to the very long length of your telephone line. However, your order will be accepted if you still wish to order. An engineer may need to visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service."

But then, as the connection says I'm getting 1472 kbps.

What's going on? That's pretty much proof of the pudding: They say we cannot get better than 0.25 Mb/s, when that reading shows we are getting better than that (even though it doesn't seem to transfer through the router, because it doesn't make watching YouTube videos any faster, or make my PS3 work online or the laptop) and Sarah, our neighbor, gets almost 2 Mb/s.

Are they lying to me, or just haven't checked the line properly? I'd appreciate a reply, because I'm probably totally wrong here but the longer my connection continues to suck, the greater my frustration becomes.

I done the Postcode checker and got this:

"Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial check on your postcode indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line rate up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our check also indicates that your line currently supports a potential ADSL Max broadband line rate of 500Kbps or greater."

Are they retarded? Completely contradicting themselves.

Thanks.

Re: Small connection issue
 

The postcode is a guesstimate based on averages of a few lines, in addition if you notice it refers to the following:

You aren't on a fixed service you are using ADSL Max.

The postcode check contradicts somewhat with regards to a fixed 1Mbps rate but 500kbps ADSL Max.

I think you are ok for the 1.472Mbps - just leave your line alone now and don't reboot it at all and your speeds should increase as BT's kit notices you are synched up at 1.472Mbps and are good for the 1Mbps line profile.

Go to the BT checker to see what your current IP Profile is, it was previously 500kbps and is probably the same and will remain that way until you are stable at 1.472Mbps for a little while.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Right, OK, thanks.

And what happens if my connection does not change?

Re: Small connection issue
 

A call to the dreaded tech support, it can take a day or two though, it's a precaution for a load of esoteric load and traffic shaping related reasons you shouldn't have to care about.

How's the pings and packet loss now mate?

Re: Small connection issue
 

I've really given up phoning the support line as they seem to know less, or want to know less about the entire situation - rather than give me support.

Packet Loss: All.
Ping: 65 ms.
Jitter: 2 ms.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Hiya,

The high ping will have come from interleaving. BT's kit will have seen your line being unstable at some point, so it applies interleave in increasing amounts to try and stabilise it. The result of this interleave is higher pings.

Just leave it be for now, try and get that IP profile up and give the impression of a nice stable service. We need to get your service stable, keep it stable, then we can drop your interleave down, along with your SNR margin, to give you faster downloads and better pings.

If it drops at any particular time during the evening try and have a think about what happens at that time of day. Lights clicking on, heating, whatever. Many things can interfere with ADSL.

One major issue is how unhelpful your ISP are. They seem unlikely to want to push BT to get a specialist engineer out. See what we can do inspite of them.

Re: Small connection issue
 

So I shall leave my connection to settle for the next day or two? I am out all tomorrow besides nighttime so I wont be able to monitor the stats, but I will keep an eye on them tonight.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Yes, don't worry about the stats just leave it be for now.

If you are concerned a bit about the stability of it perhaps get a latency monitoring service on the case.

http://f8lure.mouselike.org

Re: Small connection issue
 

Stuart,

Leaving the techie stuff for now to my friend Broadbandings, you have a real opportunity to get the line quality sorted to optimum.

The BT guff to which you referred isn't lying. It's two variants of the same thing as your neighbour has proved. But we'll disregard that.

If you take the decision to dump VM and go to BT and their ADSL service, they'll send the engineer. Then you've got him. He can call up the cherry picker to renew the pole strung segment when they check the attenuation on that length or even by inspection. IMO, it'll take two BT visits to sort but they'll sort it to optimum obtainable.

Waddaya say?

Re: Small connection issue
 

I will leave my connection for a day or so, and reply back here with the news to whether it's got better/worse etc.

When we phoned BT to ask if they could actually do anything because it is actually their line, they just said the same thing as Virgin Media: that we are very far from our exchange, even though I told them about our neighbors connection.

I'm just worried that changing to BT will not end up in them sending out an engineer, and in fact, I go through the same cycle of terrible 'support' that Virgin Media have given me.

Oh and my 'Noise Margin' is at 3.7 db which is terrible.

I know this because I done some research on Wikipedia:

* 6dB or below is bad and will experience no sync or intermittent sync problems
* 7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions
* 11dB-20dB is good with no sync problems
* 20dB-28dB is excellent
* 29dB or above is outstanding

Re: Small connection issue
 

The whole point of the ADSL Max product is to get as high a data rate as possible by pushing the noise margin. 6dB or below isn't necessarily bad, indeed some ISPs target 6dB margin for their customers.

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.

You do, however, have an issue on your line somewhere, it is picking up a lot of noise from outside. During the evening when people get home, switch lights and appliances on, etc, it increases the ambient 'noise' on the frequencies ADSL uses which is causing your problems.

I wonder, have you only recently started using your heating? Something as silly as a boiler clicking on can cause problems on a long line :(

Re: Small connection issue
 

No, haven't put the heating on. The same lights, appliances have been throughout the day as well.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Noise is probably coming from elsewhere in that case and for some reason your line is happily sucking it up. Could even be due to temperature variations causing copper to expand and contract.

Your mission however is to find someone at Virgin who gives enough of a monkey's to sort it.

BT won't take the case on from you because while you are Virgin's customer your broadband service is simply not their problem, it's absolutely up to your ISP to report faults to them, you literally cannot do this. BT Openreach will fix faults on the line only if your supplier of services raises the fault to them.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Ah - that reminds me. If the pole strung segment is a half wave of a strong medium wave radio station .... But then he would hear Radio Luxemburg on his telephone.

But Broadbandings is right to get you to look at that.

But back to the question of getting a BT engineer out to you. Just make your order conditional on that. They want you back. You can escalate up the BT hierarchy if you need to. It's a case of just.do.it.com not fret about it.

These steps are entirely in you hands now.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Now if he could hear Radio Luxembourg that'd be fairly easy to fault out to BT.

Hrm... Stuart how is the quality of voice on your phone? ;)

Re: Small connection issue
 

It's fine, totally fine.

So basically what I have to do is keep phoning and asking for them to send out an engineer. Even though every time I have suggested that to them they just say it's because we're far away from the exchange.

Excellent - I can see this getting nowhere.

Connection Speed is now 704 kbps with Noise Margin at 10.8 dB.

Re: Small connection issue
 

Too much noise to hold the 1.4Mbps sync so it resynched lower to get the noise margin back up :(

I would suggest going to another ISP if Virgin won't fix it. This behaviour isn't normal and isn't acceptable regardless of line length.

Could you please start a thread in http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general.html explaining the big swings in noise margin and connection speed? No offense to CF but that is more geared towards DSL and someone there may have a contact within BT that can assist.

Cheers and sorry I couldn't be more help Stuart.