Weird Bills
 

I've read many threads like these but I'm struggling to work out just what on earth VM are up to with my bills.

Last month:

Description Date/period Amount
Telephone Line Rental 02 September - 01 October £11.00
Talk International 02 September - 01 October £1.50
Talk Unlimited 02 September - 01 October £7.95
Phone, TV & Broadband Saving 02 September - 01 October £-25.95
T V Size: X L 02 September - 01 October £23.00
XXL 50Mb Broadband 02 September - 01 October £52.00

I think we can see 1 issue - XXL price is wrong.

Now this month:

Description Date/period Amount
Broadband XXL Price Change Credit 3 September £-7.00
VAT Credit 28 September £-1.46
Partial Months Service 20 September - 1 October £-1.62


OK That takes care of the XXL price from last month and the partial month is due to a downgrade of TV from XL to M as I got my Sky HD back :) but...

Description Date/period Amount
Telephone Line Rental 02 October - 01 November £11.00
Talk International 02 October - 01 November £1.50
Talk Unlimited 02 October - 01 November £7.95
XXL 50Mb Broadband 02 October - 01 November £45.00
T V Size: M 02 October - 01 November £0.00

Where's my 17GBP triple play discount gone? I've just been charged for everything a la carte?

If I've read it wrong please let me know, but I think they've screwed up especially as a previous month before these two, with no XL TV, reads as follows:

Description Date/period Amount
Telephone Line Rental 02 July - 01 August £11.00
Talk International 02 July - 01 August £1.50
Talk Unlimited 02 July - 01 August £7.95
Phone, Bband XL & TV Discount 02 July - 01 August £-17.00
XXL 50Mb Broadband 02 July - 01 August £52.00
T V Size: M 02 July - 01 August £0.00

Relevant and missing bit from most recent bill in bold.

Any ideas peeps or is this a simple screw up?

Re: Weird Bills
 

They didn't screw up. When you took out the XL tv you went on the Triple XL 50 which requires XL tv, XXL broadband and XL phone. It is also a minimum 12 month term

Because you downgraded your TV your account no longer met the requirements for the Triple XL 50 discount, so it was removed.

Virgin's bundle rules do not allow downgrades through the bundles. Instead if you no longer qualify for the discount you had you pay the standard non-discounted price - which may end up more expensive

Basically once you go up you can't go back down again

Re: Weird Bills
 

I see.

So the advertising regarding XXL being 28GBP when taken with a phone line is conditional on not adding, then removing other services, and VM will charge me 38GBP unless I upgrade the TV pack?

I am beginning to feel a cancellation of everything bar XXL which is still contracted coming on. If they really insist on making me pay full price for other services they can stick them where the sun doesn't shine and I'll use BT instead :)

Re: Weird Bills
 

I just do not understand the billing at all. I thought it was highly publisised that the price change was for all and I was under the impression £28 was the price and thats that.

Re: Weird Bills
 

I have to say that I think the whole point of VM's confused pricing is to confuse deliberately.

Well judging by the number of queries that people bring to CF that would appear to be the case.

Re: Weird Bills
 

All the prices Virgin quote are when you take out those services, so as I said downgrading to a lower bundle is not allowed - you lose all discounts if you do.

Which is what the terms mean when it says: You must, at a minimum, take all services included in your bundle for your minimum contract term. If you change any part of your bundle, standard prices apply.

This is how the bundles have worked for the since Feb 2007. It hasn't changed.

The same would happen if you tried to downgrade from XXL to L broadband. You would lose the £17 discount so actually only pay £3 less (rather than the £14 difference between the two on the website)

The Triple XL 50 is 12 month recontracting on ALL services. So you are now under contract for XXL and TV and Phone

Re: Weird Bills
 

If that is the case why didn't the CS rep warn him that he'd be paying full price for everything before he did made the changes.

Re: Weird Bills
 

He should have done

Re: Weird Bills
 

Odd that, given that I started off on triple XL last year and downgraded the TV after 3 months to return to Sky, yet clearly was receiving bundle discounts as early as the month before I briefly upgraded the TV.

Try again - not agreed to, not explained, and assuming the call is recorded I'd be quite happy to discuss the matter in court, there was no mention at all of any contract either when I upgraded or when I downgraded the TV. I asked for an upgrade to XL TV and fully expected to pay full price for it less my current bundle discount, at no point did I ask for an upgrade to any bundle VM chose to supply that discount unprompted.

Given the masses of notes on my account regarding unreliable broadband service over the course of this year and back end of last which ended up with the CEO's office staff in Wythenshawe and my being upgraded to XXL as a priority and first install in this area, along with the near 3 weeks of downtime in the past 3 months on said XXL service all not compensated as I'm nice like that and accept excreta happens I doubt it'll get that far, still I do have some time free during the week over the next couple of weeks so it may keep me occupied.

I don't suffer fools gladly and this pricing policy and intentional obfuscation of prices and contracts is foolish. Anyone who can in all good conscience go onto a forum like this and tell customers otherwise is likewise being a fool. I'm not saying that's what you are doing I might add and hope you aren't going to, this is indefensible especially given that I was not warned either upon adding or removing the XL TV what was going to happen to bundle discounts.

Re: Weird Bills
 

If you weren't told about the new contract when you upgraded or about the lost of discounts when you downgraded then those agents are not doing their jobs correctly.

It is VM policy to do both and is certainly something I do

Re: Weird Bills
 

Yes well let's see what happens. Between this and the reduction in price on the XXL HSI service being applied retroactively not a happy bunny at all.

EDIT: I'm not actually that bothered about paying 38 quid a month for 50Mbit, I think it's a perfectly fair price, it's just the way that discounts are applied, removed, etc, and the obfuscation of pricing that has gotten my back up.

Re: Weird Bills
 

You have misunderstood what has happened - without any discounts you are paying £45 a month for XXL not £38

The £7 credit is a one off because the price didn't drop from £52 to £45 when it should have done. It won't appear on future bills

Re: Weird Bills
 

So I won't be paying even the 38GBP/month a la carte price that the website presently shows, and has shown ever since the 'price reduction' earlier this month but I will actually be paying a higher unadvertised price?

I am actually smiling, most amused by this. The duplicity just gets better :D

EDIT: I should mention it's more amusing given that the XL TV service was cancelled this month after the price drop, so not only would it appear VM took all bundle discounts off they also have arbitrarily decided to charge me the pre-September price for XXL with it despite it only precariously applying to my account since early September.

Who are they trying to kid here?

Re: Weird Bills
 

The £38 price ISN'T 'a la carte' it is the price of BB XXL ordered by itself with no other services - not the price without any bundle discounts. That is the price that shows on the bill which is £45 (as you posted above)

They haven't charged you the pre-September bill on the October bill, otherwise it would still be showing as £52

It was an IT error as to why the £52 charge showed on the September period bill - which is why you got a £7 correction (as did everyone else it affected)

Re: Weird Bills
 

Ben, you're too wrapped up in VM speak. If you check what 'a la carte' means its' literal translation is 'according to the menu' and in the cable world it is the term used to describe the price of a service when taken on its' own. 'A reference to a menu of items priced and ordered separately.'

Can I also suggest you re-read the above and then you'll realise how ridiculous what you are saying is.

So 38GBP is the price of the XXL service ordered by itself with no other services, however when one takes the XXL service with no other service one receives bundle discounts?

I'm astounded you are trying to make out it's fine to advertise the service as 38GBP on its' own yet think it's fine for VM to charge me 45GBP without bundle discounts. I would imagine losing bundled discounts would mean being charged the price for the service, err, on its' own?

Re: Weird Bills
 

Well you asked for an explaination and you got one. Sorry if isn't the one you wanted.

Re: Weird Bills
 

No it's fine, I appreciate that you are in a difficult position. I'm just somewhat aggrieved that VM appear to be able to charge whatever they like to certain customers. It's not like they can even claim they are 'grandfathering' me onto an old package as it's very widely published that the 38GBP price is for new and existing customers.

I'll contact them and try and make sense of the mess. Without the bundles VM is significantly worse value than my other options so they lose that business anyway but the HSI is up in the air. 38GBP is perfectly fair for my service so long as it's working, even 45GBP/month is perfectly reasonable. Advertising one price as an a la carte price then charging another figure which could have been literally anything, seriously they could have charged me 100GBP then claimed a 62GBP/month discount, isn't acceptable and is a dishonest way to price the services.

Re: Weird Bills
 

@ Broadbandings
other week u said the 50 meg @ £28 a month and the bill stated £45.00.
u said that the £17 of was right .

looks like we all run and all fooked up lol.
forums over lowing price must have been a scam to lock use all in for 12 months.

Re: Weird Bills
 

What is it with you and 'locked in for 12 months'?!

Re: Weird Bills
 

It is. It's 45GBP with 0 off that isn't right. Your price ended up correct with that weirdness, mine is higher than the price advertised anywhere.

I thought it was some legacy of a messy IT system, not an actual price that people could be charged!

Re: Weird Bills
 

Hi all, having come across this forum, it would seem that i'm not the only peron being shafted by VM in recent times then.....

Having recently upgraded to XXL 50meg, I was initially quoted £35 per month for 'customer loyalty'. Great, but how I laughed when the very next day they dropped the price to just £18!! Anyway, having paid £50 for an install that I really didn't need, I saw my first bill was for £45...One angry phone call later, it was insinuated I was lying, and they never qouted me £35....ridiculous. I then threatened to leave VM, and they dropped the price to £28 pm.

Anyway, the outcome is, that after the frankly dire customer service, and faulty equipment that takes too long to fix, not to mention them defrauding my mother, (another story) I have told VM to poke it, and i'm back to BT saving a LOT of money!

Re: Weird Bills
 

How many times have you stated, here and elsewhere, that 'EVERYONE pays the same for XXL'?

Re: Weird Bills
 

he has said all over the XXL threads. I am looking forward to seeing my bill as its meant to have the deduction for nearly 2 months on it as my last bill was a few days before the September 1st price drop.


here is a quote from Ben(from a different thread)

I know he is saying Bbs has lost his discount due to reducing his package but that being the case the first line of this quote is not correct

I am contracted for XXL BB M phone and M TV so that should be £39 permonth I do not pay by dd and I have a paper bill so my charges should be a little over £45 per month

Now correct me Ben if I have this wrong but if I ask to have + added to m or go to L TV if I then later ask to go back to M will I then be charged more than now? I am only contracted to M tv I was under the impression if you increase your TV thats not a new contract and you can do that month by month?

Re: Weird Bills
 

Yes everyone upgrading to XXL pays the same price for it.

However if a customer later changes another service and no longer qualifies for the bundle discount they have they will pay more for it, same as any other product holding.

This is how Virgin's prices have always worked. You have never been able to downgrade from one bundle to another. XXL hasn't changed that

Re: Weird Bills
 

But XXL broadband is £28 when taken with a VM phone nowhere does it say you have to have tv as well or you will pay £45 for it
If I was a new customer and took XXL BB and Phone what would pay Ben? how would it only be £28 as I am not in a bundle?

It also clearly states £38 if taken on its own so how in Gods name can the charge someone £45 if they drop a product?

I had a flyer throught the mail saying existing customers are treated the same as new customers this is clearly bull turd

Re: Weird Bills
 

You don't have to have TV, but if you take out TV you get a different bundle discount.

But you are in a bundle. A Broadband and Phone bundle for which you get a £17 discount.

Yes, that is if you take it out on it's own. No phone, no TV, nothing else at all

If a new customer took out a bundle and then reduced a service below the minimum product holding they would also lose the discount

Re: Weird Bills
 

even after a contract?

Re: Weird Bills
 

Yes, because you are wanting to take services lower than the contract states.

Re: Weird Bills
 

Ben, i've been charged 3 different prices, and i've not once changed my bundle - except to upgrade to XXL. I don't think its anything to do with bundle discounts, just VM not knowing what they are doing!

Re: Weird Bills
 

Sorry to sound a little frustrated here, but why post a question like that without providing details?!!

Re: Weird Bills
 

If its me you're referring to, look at my previous post above.

Re: Weird Bills
 

I did. 'I've been charged three different prices' isn't details. Look at Broadbandings post for what is helpful in trying to work out what has happened. thanks

Re: Weird Bills
 

As previously stated in my first post - £35, £45, and finally £28...

My point was that you continually go on about bundle discounts, but my bundle hasn't changed. VM seem as if they are doing as they please. They qoute once price, charge another, then charge a third once you complain. Ridiculous!

I know exactly what happened,VM are incompetant! Its sad that after 6 years of loyalty, my one and only complaint has driven me to leave.

Re: Weird Bills
 

Well as you still haven't detailed exactly what you were charged all I can say is 'Bye Bye then'

Re: Weird Bills
 

It really isn't rocket science. My first post is quite self explanitory, I don't see the need to detail my bill on here, I have given the pertinant figures....but as you are finding it difficult, I shall reiterate here:

Quote for XXL - £35 (on phone by a customer services rep)
Actual charge on bill - £45 - complained, and reduced it to £28.

It is plainly obvious, that I was lied to and that VM couldn't care less for its customers.

I'm assuming that you work for VM by looking at your posts? If so, with your attitude as displayed above clearly runs deep throughout VM, and I certainly would not do business with the cowboys again.

Re: Weird Bills
 

No I mean after the 12 month term of contract has expired?

Re: Weird Bills
 

Ok so they removed the Triple XL discount (or whatever its called).

Shouldn't they then apply another discount (the phone, XXL BB discount) so he pays £38 as everyone else does not £45?

Or is this a punishment for downgrading under a 12 month contract?

Anyway if he wasn't told he was entering another 12 month contract at the time, doesn't this make it null and void as Virgin broke their own rules?

Re: Weird Bills
 

If I argue they might return the discount to me but that's not the point, the point is with this pricing system they can freely rip people off. I am lucky it's only 45GBP. According to this charging system I could be getting hit for 100 quid a month and VM can apparently claim the price is 38 because they add a pixie dust 62GBP discount. I see a lot of use of the words 'bundle discount'. How exactly can a 'bundle discount' of 7GBP be applied to those taking XXL on its' own?!

This is in my opinion a scam plain and simple, and I have engaged Trading Standards on this issue to clarify matters. Pricing should be clear and transparent which Virgin's pricing most certainly is not going by the amount of confusion.

VM appear to just pull this 45GBP figure out of their backsides. Nowhere on their website is this 45GBP figure mentioned, a Google search returns nothing apart from BenMCR's forum posts and people copy/pasting their bills. 'Bundle discounts' is used regularly in these posts, however I'm not entirely sure how taking XXL standalone is 'bundling'..

An official price list appears to be a rather tricky thing to come by. If anyone has a link to one I'd welcome it, given that my phone call earlier got me nowhere.

Re: Weird Bills
 

Swift update:

At no point during the upgrade process is 45GBP mentioned.

So if this isn't a mistake VM are trying to charge me a price advertised and listed precisely nowhere it would seem, given there's no price list which features it and it's nowhere on the advertising blurb.

This just gets better :)