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-   -   Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33655253)

BenMcr 11-09-2009 10:35

Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitalt...-platform.html

Virgin Media has announced that it will soon deploy a new IP-based TV transmission platform to upgrade its legacy digital TV infrastructure.

The cable operator intends to roll out Cisco's Digital Video Headend technology - including IP core and edge routing and switching - over its national fibre optic network to enable the expansion of standard and high definition TV services.

Dazza124 11-09-2009 11:20

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Sorry but not really technically up on this..:dunce:

What does it mean in lamens terms for us especially V+ users.

Hopefully more channels (HD preferred) or better quality existing SD channels.

Stuart 11-09-2009 11:23

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazza124 (Post 34870838)
Sorry but not really technically up on this..:dunce:

What does it mean in lamens terms for us especially V+ users.

Hopefully more channels (HD preferred) or better quality existing SD channels.

Probably nothing. Just means that all those Virgin ADSL users will be able to have VM's TV service via their phone line, rather than Virgin having to dig up roads around the half of the country they can't currently serve.

---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ----------

I could be wrong though..

Dazza124 11-09-2009 11:26

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Surely there must be a benefit or knock on effect somewhere for digital tv customers
Would this roll out start next year after analogue shuts down?

Maybe more channels or enchanced VOD.

Stuart 11-09-2009 11:33

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Depends how they implement it. If they implement it via the phone line (and it's by no means certain they will, although that would be the cheapest way), then it would run independantly of the current cable TV system. It would also mean that they would not need to wait for the Analogue shut down.

If they implement it on the Cable network, then they may well have to replace every set top box eventually, which would bring a lot of benefits for the consumers (the boxes would almost certainly be faster and support MPEG 4), which would cost a *lot*.

greeninferno 11-09-2009 11:53

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34870843)
Depends how they implement it. If they implement it via the phone line (and it's by no means certain they will, although that would be the cheapest way), then it would run independantly of the current cable TV system. It would also mean that they would not need to wait for the Analogue shut down.

If they implement it on the Cable network, then they may well have to replace every set top box eventually, which would bring a lot of benefits for the consumers (the boxes would almost certainly be faster and support MPEG 4), which would cost a *lot*.

I think if its done properly it is supposed to free up huge amounts of bandwidth i.e. a customer only receives the current channel they are watching.

Whereas just now every channel is broadcast on the network to every set top box whether they can view it or not.

BenMcr 11-09-2009 12:06

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34870840)
Probably nothing. Just means that all those Virgin ADSL users will be able to have VM's TV service via their phone line, rather than Virgin having to dig up roads around the half of the country they can't currently serve.

---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ----------

I could be wrong though..

AFAIK by moving to IPTV transmission you decouple the transmission technology and the physical network. So it's for both the cable network and (potentially) National ADSL

altis 11-09-2009 12:23

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Sounds like this is all happening faster than I expected!

I wonder how long it will be before the telephone service is offered over IP too.

*sloman* 11-09-2009 12:25

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
it should also stop the tv thiefs, we we all need new boxes as well i believe

one2escape 11-09-2009 12:52

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
If this is what is happening this we make things interesting. I think this could be the beginning of the end for non live TV Shows if they do this correctly. For me anyway the only shows I watch live is sport. You then could subscribe / buy shows you want like Itunes! I may be completely wrong though!

devilincarnate 11-09-2009 15:22

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34870843)
Depends how they implement it. If they implement it via the phone line (and it's by no means certain they will, although that would be the cheapest way), then it would run independantly of the current cable TV system. It would also mean that they would not need to wait for the Analogue shut down.

If they implement it on the Cable network, then they may well have to replace every set top box eventually, which would bring a lot of benefits for the consumers (the boxes would almost certainly be faster and support MPEG 4), which would cost a *lot*.

got this off wikipedia

IPTV uses a two-way digital broadcast signal sent through a switched telephone or cable network by way of a broadband connection and a set-top box programmed with software (much like a cable or DSS box) that can handle viewer requests to access to many available media sources.

[edit] Interactivity
An IP-based platform also allows significant opportunities to make the TV viewing experience more interactive and personalized. The supplier may, for example, include an interactive program guide that allows viewers to search for content by title or actor’s name, or a picture-in-picture functionality that allows them to “channel surf” without leaving the program they’re watching. Viewers may be able to look up a player’s stats while watching a sports game, or control the camera angle. They also may be able to access photos or music from their PC on their television, use a wireless phone to schedule a recording of their favorite show, or even adjust parental controls so their child can watch a documentary for a school report, while they’re away from home.

Note that this is all possible, to some degree, with existing digital terrestrial, satellite and cable networks in tandem with modern set top boxes.[citation needed] In order that there can take place an interaction between the receiver and the transmitter a feedback channel is needed. Due to this terrestrial, satellite and cable networks for television does not allow interactivity. However, interactivity with those networks can be possible in the combination with different networks like internet or a mobile communication network.


[edit] VoD
VoD stands for Video on Demand. VoD permits a customer to browse an online programme or film catalogue, to watch trailers and to then select a selected recording for playback. The playout of the selected movie starts nearly instantaneously on the customer's TV or PC.

Technically, when the customer selects the movie, a point-to-point[disambiguation needed] unicast connection is set up between the customer's decoder (SetTopBox or PC) and the delivering streaming server. The signalling for the trick play functionality (pause, slow-motion, wind/rewind etc.) is assured by RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol).

The most common codecs used for VoD are MPEG-2, MPEG-4 and VC-1.

In an attempt to avoid content piracy, the VoD content is usually encrypted. Whilst encryption of satellite and cable TV broadcasts is an old practice, with IPTV technology it can effectively be thought of as a form of Digital Rights Management. A film that is chosen, for example, may be playable for 24 hours following payment, after which time it becomes unavailable.

BenMcr 11-09-2009 15:33

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Cisco press release (with Technical Links) is here http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html

Product Brochure for the Cisco kit is apparently here http://www.cisco.com/en/US/solutions...cd80613e44.pdf

Sirius 11-09-2009 16:37

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Here's hoping that its on the Cable network and that its sodding encryption is better and a lot stronger than the 2 bit system they use now. Look at Ireland and what Nagra 3 has done to the thieving scummy types and the good news is they have not cracked it :rofl::rofl:

Also lets have this asap so we can watch the thieving scummy types over here crying over there dead boxes :LOL:

Additional reading

http://www.iptv-forum.com/

http://www.iptv-news.com/

Stuart 11-09-2009 16:52

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Long term, it would make more sense for them to have one unified system distributing to both ADSL and Cable Set Top boxes, but it depends on whether they are willing to pay the price for the inevitable STB upgrades.

Digital Fanatic 11-09-2009 17:40

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34870957)
Here's hoping that its on the Cable network and that its sodding encryption is better and a lot stronger than the 2 bit system they use now. Look at Ireland and what Nagra 3 has done to the thieving scummy types and the good news is they have not cracked it :rofl::rofl:

Also lets have this asap so we can watch the thieving scummy types over here crying over there dead boxes :LOL:

Additional reading

http://www.iptv-forum.com/

http://www.iptv-news.com/

Agreed! :clap:

BenMcr 11-09-2009 17:51

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34870957)
Look at Ireland and what Nagra 3 has done to the thieving scummy types

I see what you you mean ;)

Sirius 11-09-2009 17:58

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34870999)
I see what you you mean ;)

Its good to see they have lost every single channel :LOL:

BenMcr 11-09-2009 18:13

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
I wonder how many of them had a moan at the cable companies

Sirius 11-09-2009 18:21

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34871008)
I wonder how many of them had a moan at the cable companies

From the 2 forums i watch i can tell you they were all complaining at the cable company for removing there free TV. I say excellent lets hope VM do it as well.

One of them wants to sue the cable company, because he cannot use his dodgy box that he paid good money for. :rolleyes: :D

fatassmichael 11-09-2009 18:50

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
agreed sirius, i dont know of any forums where these thieves are whinging, certainly is funny to think about them complaining though :D

Sirius 11-09-2009 18:56

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatassmichael (Post 34871026)
agreed sirius, i dont know of any forums where these thieves are whinging, certainly is funny to think about them complaining though :D

Looking at the capability of IPTV then the future is indeed bright for VM

fatassmichael 11-09-2009 19:05

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
or potentially bright, if they implement it correctly ;)

greeninferno 11-09-2009 19:39

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
this definitely signals the beginning of the end for dodgy cable boxes.

I just hope they get the new set top box/middleware correct this time.

Slow channel changes/turgid vod loading times, bigger hard drives all absolutely HAS to be perfected this time.:soapbox:

Hiroki 11-09-2009 20:02

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34870957)
Here's hoping that its on the Cable network and that its sodding encryption is better and a lot stronger than the 2 bit system they use now. Look at Ireland and what Nagra 3 has done to the thieving scummy types and the good news is they have not cracked it :rofl::rofl:

Also lets have this asap so we can watch the thieving scummy types over here crying over there dead boxes :LOL:

Looking at another site (beginning with a T) apparently card sharing and some linux based boxes can combat Nagra 3

dilli-theclaw 11-09-2009 20:03

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
I'd love it if /eventually/ got to have a virgin tv box at home again :)

Sirius 11-09-2009 20:13

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiroki (Post 34871075)
Looking at another site (beginning with a T) apparently card sharing and some linux based boxes can combat Nagra 3

That has not been confirmed to be honest. BTW is that site down at the moment ?

Ignitionnet 11-09-2009 21:29

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Ah cool they've finally announced this, it's been a work in progress for ages.

This will, simply, end theft of TV as it is right now. It'll free huge amounts of bandwidth on the coaxial network too.

It'll also be good for the internet side of the service as that will benefit from some network upgrades on the return path. This service needs a return path to work, no return path no TV.

Sirius 11-09-2009 22:10

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings (Post 34871112)
Ah cool they've finally announced this, it's been a work in progress for ages.

This will, simply, end theft of TV as it is right now. It'll free huge amounts of bandwidth on the coaxial network too.

It'll also be good for the internet side of the service as that will benefit from some network upgrades on the return path. This service needs a return path to work, no return path no TV.

Yes VM are moving in the right direction.

*sloman* 11-09-2009 22:15

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
BenMcr any time scales on this, am i right in think we will all need new set top boxes?

BenMcr 11-09-2009 22:24

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Dunno on timescales.

As for new STBs I doubt it - otherwise why else would Virgin continue to install the existing stock?

Hiroki 11-09-2009 22:58

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34871081)
That has not been confirmed to be honest. BTW is that site down at the moment ?

Hey well that's some good news right?

And the site seems to be still down at the moment.

musicbravo 11-09-2009 23:27

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
People talk of new STBs, surely all current boxes are capable (following software/firmware updates) of IPTV if a little slow at the process. Is it no coincidence that the new Samsung V+ boxes are capable of the more streamlined MPEG4 format?

Turkey Machine 12-09-2009 18:45

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
All the STBs have a network port, but surely all of them would need a firmware update. There are different brands, different models and all connected to the same network.

BenMcr 12-09-2009 18:50

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
But they all have to conform to the DVB-C standard ;)

Turkey Machine 12-09-2009 18:59

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Exactly. Basically, Virgin's deployment hinges on them either adhering to that standard or sending out several million IPTV boxes to their subscribers.

What I reckon they could do, initially for a period of say 6-12 months, is trial it as a cable TV "replacement" in a certain area, then trial it alongside their current TV subscriber base, then roll out the changes if there's enough interest and it's viable, both on a bandwidth and initial cost basis, to do so.

BenMcr 12-09-2009 19:09

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
I'm not sure where you are getting this IPTV box thing from. Nothing in the press releases mentions IPTV boxes.

What has been mentioned is an IPTV delivery platform to the headends. That's it. From there to the STBs can still be the current technology

Even if it's not cable VoD is already IP based (as far as I am aware) so I would expect the current STBs can already do full IPTV if required

---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------

However what it could mean is that the headends could also deliver IP based TV over the cable modems

Maggy 12-09-2009 19:14

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Would this mean that the red button would finally work on the 24 hour BBC News channel?:erm:

Ignitionnet 12-09-2009 19:17

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34871538)
What has been mentioned is an IPTV delivery platform to the headends. That's it. From there to the STBs can still be the current technology

No it can't and no it isn't just a platform for delivery to headends. That is not and has never been where the capacity issues lie.

Quote:

Even if it's not cable VoD is already IP based (as far as I am aware)
No the current cable VoD isn't IP based at all.

Turkey Machine 12-09-2009 19:28

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34871538)
I'm not sure where you are getting this IPTV box thing from. Nothing in the press releases mentions IPTV boxes.

Every IPTV deployment in this country so far has required a specialised STB to access the service either via the internet or some other means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34871538)
What has been mentioned is an IPTV delivery platform to the headends. That's it. From there to the STBs can still be the current technology

Delivery to the headends is, by comparison, very easy. Delivering from headends to customers is an entirely new salmon stream to swim up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34871538)
Even if it's not cable VoD is already IP based (as far as I am aware) so I would expect the current STBs can already do full IPTV if required

Are you talking about the VoD like catchup TV, movies, music videos, etc? If so, it's still a big comparitive step to full IPTV.

But now I think about it, when I compare what the current solution for VoD is, adding IPTV to it doesn't seem so bad. It just means that if you want to watch a particular channel without watching a particular programme that the software would need to automatically load the next programme segment on the channel, be it trailers or the next TV show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34871538)


---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------

However what it could mean is that the headends could also deliver IP based TV over the cable modems

This is what I first thought it could be, as it draws comparisons with BT Vision and Tiscali TV. But Virgin's cable network is strained enough with the amount of cable modems taxing the headends. Plus, how would customers react when they find out that they've hit the STM limit just for watching a couple of TV shows?

Mick Fisher 12-09-2009 19:58

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34871543)
Would this mean that the red button would finally work on the 24 hour BBC News channel?:erm:

:D

metoyou 13-09-2009 11:56

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34870957)
Here's hoping that its on the Cable network and that its sodding encryption is better and a lot stronger than the 2 bit system they use now. Look at Ireland and what Nagra 3 has done to the thieving scummy types and the good news is they have not cracked it :rofl::rofl:

Also lets have this asap so we can watch the thieving scummy types over here crying over there dead boxes :LOL:

Additional reading

http://www.iptv-forum.com/

http://www.iptv-news.com/

Nagra3 is close to being hacked:

There will be NO disscussion of HOW to hack ANY system or any indication on how to do so.

Ignitionnet 13-09-2009 19:46

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Won't be much use for an IPTV solution anyway.

IKS is hardly 'hacking' and for a nice responsive operator IKS is a minor irritation and brought down quickly.

kesterwww 05-03-2010 18:36

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Having had VM cable services before moving to an area which doesn't have it in the area, this post seems interesting to me. I know it was wrote back in September, has any progress been made since then?
Also, just to be clear, does this mean that all the channels available on VM could soon be available to people in homes nowhere near a cable network?
I currently have BT Vision, and am really impressed with the on demand selection which comes with it. The only annoying thing is that any HD films or shows have to be downloaded over a period of a few hours. I recall VM were able to stream HD shows on demand.

tvtimes 05-03-2010 18:45

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kesterwww (Post 34974966)
Having had VM cable services before moving to an area which doesn't have it in the area, this post seems interesting to me. I know it was wrote back in September, has any progress been made since then?
Also, just to be clear, does this mean that all the channels available on VM could soon be available to people in homes nowhere near a cable network?
I currently have BT Vision, and am really impressed with the on demand selection which comes with it. The only annoying thing is that any HD films or shows have to be downloaded over a period of a few hours. I recall VM were able to stream HD shows on demand.

Unfortunately i don't think non cabled areas will be getting it any time soon. This IPTV roll out is for cabled areas and cabled customers will basically be able to browse ondemand content from the internet like Youtube etc. It will be with Tivo software. As far as i know VM were doing a freeview box in non cabled areas but that was all their plans were.

Ignitionnet 05-03-2010 23:06

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tvtimes (Post 34974969)
This IPTV roll out is for cabled areas and cabled customers will basically be able to browse ondemand content from the internet like Youtube etc.

IPTV is nothing to do with content hosted on the Internet, it refers to the way in which content is taken from the existing digital hubsites and the Seachange VoD kit that lives in them to the STBs.

VM are doing trials of IPTV over VDSL2 in an offnet area.

kesterwww 07-03-2010 00:50

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34975065)
IPTV is nothing to do with content hosted on the Internet, it refers to the way in which content is taken from the existing digital hubsites and the Seachange VoD kit that lives in them to the STBs.

VM are doing trials of IPTV over VDSL2 in an offnet area.

OK, this seems to indicate that people outside the cable network could get VM, but how far off the network? For example, I'm in Chippenham, Wilts (SN15) and to my knowledge, am nowhere near a VM cabinet.
I do hope VM launch a national iptv service such as what Tiscili do. Does anyone believe BT's Fiber Optic network could be an advantage in making this type of thing happen?

tvtimes 07-03-2010 14:37

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34975065)
IPTV is nothing to do with content hosted on the Internet, it refers to the way in which content is taken from the existing digital hubsites and the Seachange VoD kit that lives in them to the STBs.

VM are doing trials of IPTV over VDSL2 in an offnet area.

I was talking about VM's new iptv delivery they are implementing this year. This will only be available to cable customers at least for the foreseable future.
With the new tivo software we will be able to do that according to reports.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle7050684.ece

This report suggests that internet browsing through your box will be available so you can watch documentaries etc streamed from the net.
Plus special features like behind the scenes, making of, gad reels. This is just going to open it up massively and will be like no other tv experience in the uk. That's if they do implement it but they seem to suggest VM will.

Ignitionnet 07-03-2010 16:15

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tvtimes (Post 34975869)
I was talking about VM's new iptv delivery they are implementing this year. This will only be available to cable customers at least for the foreseable future.
With the new tivo software we will be able to do that according to reports.
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle7050684.ece

This report suggests that internet browsing through your box will be available so you can watch documentaries etc streamed from the net.
Plus special features like behind the scenes, making of, gad reels. This is just going to open it up massively and will be like no other tv experience in the uk. That's if they do implement it but they seem to suggest VM will.

OK we're confusing a couple of different things here. The TiVo Premiere service is not the same as the IPTV deployment. Virgin going IPTV doesn't mean everyone gets access to the TiVo service it just means they save bandwidth on their cable network.

The most recent version of the TiVo PVR isn't compatible with true IPTV systems, it requires cable or cable-a-like TV, it's a cable box that also connects to a broadband internet connection to access programming on the Internet, in a similar manner to, for example, newer Blu Ray players.

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-pr...setup.html#tab

Again the TiVo service is nothing to do with Virgin's IPTV program. The Virgin box may use an internal cable modem to do standard CATV and TiVo Premiere functionality in one unit but TiVo is not indicative of an IPTV cable network and can be used fully on any cable network that allows you to plug in a cable card so long as you have a broadband connection for the IPTV part.

tvtimes 07-03-2010 17:27

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34975922)
OK we're confusing a couple of different things here. The TiVo Premiere service is not the same as the IPTV deployment. Virgin going IPTV doesn't mean everyone gets access to the TiVo service it just means they save bandwidth on their cable network.

The most recent version of the TiVo PVR isn't compatible with true IPTV systems, it requires cable or cable-a-like TV, it's a cable box that also connects to a broadband internet connection to access programming on the Internet, in a similar manner to, for example, newer Blu Ray players.

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-pr...setup.html#tab

Again the TiVo service is nothing to do with Virgin's IPTV program. The Virgin box may use an internal cable modem to do standard CATV and TiVo Premiere functionality in one unit but TiVo is not indicative of an IPTV cable network and can be used fully on any cable network that allows you to plug in a cable card so long as you have a broadband connection for the IPTV part.

Maybe i am getting confused. What i am trying to say purely cable customers would be getting the new iptv system. VM are deploying thier new IPTV system with tivo middleware etc aren't they? We will have access to internet services through our tv. I said non cabled areas have to make do with what they have, they won't have access to the same service we do on the network. There has been no mention by Virgin that they plan on launching outside of the cabled network. At the mo they have Virgin phone and BB but it is very limited and if they were to launch a proper tv service then it wouldn't be like the one we're getting with Tivo. No doubt it would be a second rate service like BT vision. The person asked whether they will be getting the same channels as we do and the answer at the moment is no.

The article i posted says that you won't have to have bb package through VM but they will charge you a different way but it hasn't been worked out how or how much yet.

I thought TIVO was to do with IPTV as i thought a lot of the delivery will be through an internet connection and the new Tivo software will allow you to search vast amounts of content as it will pick up things from the net aswell as VMs existing catv side.

So if there is a difference what is it? Because Virgin announced both iptv and tivo will be launching this year and i imagined they will be part of the same thing. According to this article and many others seem to support my theory that Tivo and VM are coming together and delivering a mix of iptv and catv tv
http://www.techradar.com/news/televi...-future-674066

By the way it's already been said we won't be getting premiere boxes but something different.

kesterwww 08-03-2010 00:10

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Sorry if my earlier question caused some confusion.
I was asking if VM had plans to deliver a tv service, such as is available at the mo on cable, over the internet, thus making it an iptv service. I wasn't asking if this new stb including tivo software would be available off the network.
But thanks to all who gave a reply. What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection.

TheDon 08-03-2010 08:34

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kesterwww (Post 34976223)
What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection.

The trials in Cornwall aren't off network.

The way it's working is over VDSL2+ via fiber to the cabinet, with the cabinets being connected directly to VM's network. In essence it's using VDSL2+ to extend the network.

For it to be rolled out anywhere would require someone to roll out FTTC to the area (in cornwall it's vtesse) and it to be connected to VM's network. VM are not looking at supplying their services outside of their walled garden, if VM don't have a physical presence in an area then you won't get VM. Think of it like LLU, just having a phone line isn't enough to get adsl from an llu supplier, they have to have their equipment in your exchange. The same with this if it's rolled out, only instead of needing equipment in the exchange they need a complete FTTC infrastructure.

tvtimes 08-03-2010 10:17

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kesterwww (Post 34976223)
Sorry if my earlier question caused some confusion.
I was asking if VM had plans to deliver a tv service, such as is available at the mo on cable, over the internet, thus making it an iptv service. I wasn't asking if this new stb including tivo software would be available off the network.
But thanks to all who gave a reply. What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection.

Sorry, i think i knew what you meant:erm:. I gathered you was talking about tv over the net through iptv. But unfortunately there is no plan to launch a service like on net to your area for the foreseeable. VM are rolling out a new iptv service (partnered with Tivo) to their cable customers. The off net customers will either have to stick with Freeview, BT or Sky at the moment.:(

Ignitionnet 08-03-2010 10:47

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tvtimes (Post 34976336)
I thought TIVO was to do with IPTV as i thought a lot of the delivery will be through an internet connection

/wrists

IPTV does not mean TV over the internet. IPTV uses a closed network, Internet TV is different. The TiVo tie in potentially provides both via a single box but is not the IPTV migration that's been discussed in the past and is in no way essential to the IPTV shift, it's STB software nothing more.

A non-cable based IPTV service would not be using the Internet for broadcasts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV#Di...om_Internet_TV

VM's IPTV deployment is actually using Cisco kit.

http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html

The TV service will be using SDV on the VM access network. Content delivered to head ends and hubsites via IP routers and delivered to Cisco kit where the streams are managed, packaged up and pushed down the cable network in a similar manner to VoD streams.

Again, TiVo Premiere is not IPTV, it is Internet TV, simply pulling content from the internet on a best effort basis using a TiVo provided front end. If IPTV were seen to be buffering you'd be wanting to do very unpleasant things indeed to your provider, this is perfectly possible with TiVo Premiere depending on the performance of the internet at the time.

jrhnewark 08-03-2010 11:03

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Thank you, Ignitionnet, for clearing that up properly.

The important thing is that they have perfectly well enough bandwidth to deliver as many DTV channels as they like... but any further ones are down to contractual requirements with the customer rather than VM-specific operational ones.

I assume that the new Cisco kit utilises some kind of multicast capability to headends?

Ignitionnet 08-03-2010 11:16

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrhnewark (Post 34976363)
I assume that the new Cisco kit utilises some kind of multicast capability to headends?

It certainly could, seems to be all new kit not shared with the Internet service and multicast would make a lot of sense.

tvtimes 08-03-2010 11:18

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976347)
/wrists

IPTV does not mean TV over the internet. IPTV uses a closed network, Internet TV is different. The TiVo tie in potentially provides both via a single box but is not the IPTV migration that's been discussed in the past and is in no way essential to the IPTV shift, it's STB software nothing more.

A non-cable based IPTV service would not be using the Internet for broadcasts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV#Di...om_Internet_TV

VM's IPTV deployment is actually using Cisco kit.

http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html

The TV service will be using SDV on the VM access network. Content delivered to head ends and hubsites via IP routers and delivered to Cisco kit where the streams are managed, packaged up and pushed down the cable network in a similar manner to VoD streams.

Again, TiVo Premiere is not IPTV, it is Internet TV, simply pulling content from the internet on a best effort basis using a TiVo provided front end. If IPTV were seen to be buffering you'd be wanting to do very unpleasant things indeed to your provider, this is perfectly possible with TiVo Premiere depending on the performance of the internet at the time.

I know the tv won't be coming over the net a lot of the ondemand content will. Bt is not even tv over the net, it is essentially a freeview box with ondemand content through a bb connection. VM and Tivo are launching an iptv service which will entail a normal catv style television service aswell ondemand as BB ondemand content streamed when you want it.

Good job we aren't getting Tivo premiere i don't know why you keep mentioning it? VM have said they won't be using those boxes but VM and Tivo are launching something else in this country and VM will use it's own boxes. All i said to the person who asked the question earlier on is that they are launching an iptv service (even if it half and half everyone is calling it a new iptv service) and people on the cabled areas are getting it and non cable customers aren't. We're going round in circles and non of it really matters.

Ignitionnet 08-03-2010 11:46

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Would you please read what IPTV actually means and get out of your mind that IPTV involves the Internet. Ignore the tabloid and tech tabloid that feature articles written by clueless journos.

We're going around in circles because of your obsession that without TiVo or Internet integration there's no IPTV, this is not true, the IPTV upgrade is to free up space on the cable network for more HD and VoD it's nothing to do with TiVo! You do not need IPTV cable networks to run the TiVo services, they are running perfectly well over SDV and non-SDV CATV networks in the States and the TiVo service is not IPTV.

Neither you nor I know what Virgin plan to do with the TiVo tie-up so to suggest it won't be TiVo Premiere rebranded and built into a VM branded box is an assumption. Indeed unless Virgin plan on giving every subscriber a TiVo equipped PVR, 4 million of them, it would seem quite likely that many customers will be using legacy STBs which are happily tuning in to IPTV streams.

My point is they are very separate things. Talking about them like they are the same is just wrong. People will not suddenly wake up one morning to find their area has been upgraded to IPTV and they suddenly are able to stream off YouTube and their STB has grown a hard drive and is running a Tivo-based operating system.

With the appropriate STB one could get exactly the same experience on a non-IPTV network - build a cable modem into the STB and use that for the internet content, which is likely what Virgin will do, and the job's done.

It's actually not unlikely that Virgin will release a home gateway box - a single STB which combines TV, PVR, DOCSIS 3 Cable Modem, Wireless Router all in one. Having a single cable modem for both video and internet access won't be a major problem, bandwidth can be guaranteed for video streams in between the uBR / CMTS and the cable modem using assured information rate service flows while using the same equipment as the existing internet services in the headend. :)

tvtimes 08-03-2010 13:31

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976412)
Would you please read what IPTV actually means and get out of your mind that IPTV involves the Internet. Ignore the tabloid and tech tabloid that feature articles written by clueless journos.

Vm themselves said they were launching iptv and that it was going to revolutionise thier tv service. How is just freeing up space going to revolutionise anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976412)
We're going around in circles because of your obsession that without TiVo or Internet integration there's no IPTV, this is not true, the IPTV upgrade is to free up space on the cable network for more HD and VoD it's nothing to do with TiVo! You do not need IPTV cable networks to run the TiVo services, they are running perfectly well over SDV and non-SDV CATV networks in the States and the TiVo service is not IPTV.

Lol i don't have an obsession thanks. I never said without tivo there is no integration at all i just said that tivo is going to be part of it as part of vms new tv service and new delivery system. I am aware you don't need iptv networks to run the tivo service i never said it did. I said that it will be part of what we are getting with the new service. You are taking everything said out of context and twisting words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976412)
Neither you nor I know what Virgin plan to do with the TiVo tie-up so to suggest it won't be TiVo Premiere rebranded and built into a VM branded box is an assumption. Indeed unless Virgin plan on giving every subscriber a TiVo equipped PVR, 4 million of them, it would seem quite likely that many customers will be using legacy STBs which are happily tuning in to IPTV streams.

No we don't know but we do know that we won't be getting their premiere boxes rebranded or not. VM have said already that they won't be using the boxes but using their own. Some are suggested it may work on our existing boxes, some are suggesting that we will need new boxes. But VM have said they won't be using Tivo boxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976412)
My point is they are very separate things. Talking about them like they are the same is just wrong. People will not suddenly wake up one morning to find their area has been upgraded to IPTV and they suddenly are able to stream off YouTube and their STB has grown a hard drive and is running a Tivo-based operating system.

They may be very different things but it's all going to be part of the same thing that VM are launching this year. VM are launching a new tv service which they say will be iptv and VM will be using Tivo software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976412)
With the appropriate STB one could get exactly the same experience on a non-IPTV network - build a cable modem into the STB and use that for the internet content, which is likely what Virgin will do, and the job's done.

Vm have said no such thing though, they have't said they will be rolling it out nation wide. Even if they did it will be a poorer service seeing as you have exchange distance issues. VM are in no rush to offer their new service to offnet customers which is what i said in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34976412)
It's actually not unlikely that Virgin will release a home gateway box - a single STB which combines TV, PVR, DOCSIS 3 Cable Modem, Wireless Router all in one. Having a single cable modem for both video and internet access won't be a major problem, bandwidth can be guaranteed for video streams in between the uBR / CMTS and the cable modem using assured information rate service flows while using the same equipment as the existing internet services in the headend. :)

That just goes right over my head infact most of this does.

I'm going to leave it here, you're obviously more switched on than i am. All i am going to say is that they won't be giving their new tv service to offnet customers anytime soon which is what i said in the first place.

Buffalo2102 13-03-2010 13:18

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Just to clarify a couple of points.

The new VM IPTV network does not involve SDV at all and it doesn't in itself actually free up any bandwidth. The coinciding drop of analogue services does.

The TIVO product is totally separate and could easily be done without the new IPTV network.

Ignitionnet 13-03-2010 14:19

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Then the plot thickens - I was informed, perhaps misinformed, that the new Cisco Edge QAM equipment was being used for an SDV deployment.

Given you seem to know more about this than I do what is being done about the 550MHz areas that are pretty loaded up with QAMs even with analogue crushed, along with having heavily restricted capacity upstream due to the 30MHz return path?

Horizon 13-03-2010 14:40

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34979583)
Then the plot thickens - I was informed, perhaps misinformed, that the new Cisco Edge QAM equipment was being used for an SDV deployment.

It's between headends. Or to be more precise between the superhead and local ones. It enables them to update VOD faster and simultaneously to multiple sites.

Personally I can't see SDV being deployed to homes for many years yet, why would they need to? VM have huge capacity and with upgrades to existing technologies (docsis3/mpeg4/dvb-c2) vm can increase capacity to a much greater magnitude without deploying sdv to the front end.

Ignitionnet 13-03-2010 15:25

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Verizon (Post 34979592)
Personally I can't see SDV being deployed to homes for many years yet, why would they need to? VM have huge capacity and with upgrades to existing technologies (docsis3/mpeg4/dvb-c2) vm can increase capacity to a much greater magnitude without deploying sdv to the front end.

Err.

The Edge QAMs that are going in as part of the IPTV project are SDV capable and all that's needed for the STBs is software. Tad more viable than replacing every set top with one that can do MP4 / dvb-c2 don't you think?

DOCSIS 3 doesn't address the issue of RF networks being under stress - US companies that already run SDV aren't going to 1GHz networks for their health.

I believe you are wrong about the masses of capacity. There's still a not inconsiderable part of the network which runs on 550MHz networks which are rather full and will need either SDV or plant upgrade in the not hugely distant future.

Buffalo2102 13-03-2010 17:01

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
I can't really say what is definitely happening on the 550MHz networks but there are a few options.

1. First and most obvious is to change some or all of the current 64QAM carriers to 256QAM. That would give an immediate 30% increase in capacity.

2. Just because the network is rated to 550MHz doesn't mean you can't exceed that. I have seen QAMs up to 635MHz being used successfully on a 600MHz network.

3. DVB-C2 would also give a bandwidth boost but would obviously take time as DVB-C2 set-tops would be needed.

4. Changing from mpeg2 to mpeg4 would also give a bandwidth improvement but also needs new set-tops. This could be done in conjunction with DVB-C2.

5. SDV, as you say.

6. Upgrade the 550MHz network.

Short-term, I doubt that it will be any one particular thing but a combination of 1 and 2.
Long-term, it will depend on the strategic view. Since set-tops naturally have to be replaced anyway, 3 and 4 may well come into play at some point, but not now.
Depending on timing, SDV may be an option but I think it's probably the least likely, given the expense and complexity of doing it.
Upgrading the networks would be very expensive but it would at least standardise things - may be done but over a long period?

Ignitionnet 13-03-2010 17:45

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo2102 (Post 34979689)
1. First and most obvious is to change some or all of the current 64QAM carriers to 256QAM. That would give an immediate 30% increase in capacity.

Can the lasers that are powering these networks handle such a move?

Quote:

2. Just because the network is rated to 550MHz doesn't mean you can't exceed that. I have seen QAMs up to 635MHz being used successfully on a 600MHz network.
Appreciate that some kit is underspecified and I've seen carriers just over 550 also but not a lot above.

Quote:

Short-term, I doubt that it will be any one particular thing but a combination of 1 and 2.
Long-term, it will depend on the strategic view. Since set-tops naturally have to be replaced anyway, 3 and 4 may well come into play at some point, but not now.
Depending on timing, SDV may be an option but I think it's probably the least likely, given the expense and complexity of doing it.
Upgrading the networks would be very expensive but it would at least standardise things - may be done but over a long period?
Given the Cisco edge QAMs are SDV compatible would it be so expensive to just add some more? From that the only other expense I can think of would be the STB software.

I would hope there will be no more huge network upgrades from the not too distant future on the HFC side apart from deep fibre, node + 1, and then RFoG / DPON.

Buffalo2102 13-03-2010 20:08

Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34979717)
Can the lasers that are powering these networks handle such a move?

Yes. Most of the lasers will cope but there will probably need to be some network re-alignment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 34979717)
Given the Cisco edge QAMs are SDV compatible would it be so expensive to just add some more? From that the only other expense I can think of would be the STB software.

If only it were that simple. There is a whole system required to handle the request/tuning traffic to and from from the set-tops and also to manage the switching and modulation of the video on the edge QAMs.
The software for the set-tops would not be simple either as there are about 8 different set-top variants at the moment. Each performs differently and has a different, finite amount of memory. I'll bet there would need to be many months of development and testing involved before there could be any confidence that SDV would work reliably with all set-tops.
There are a lot of other considerations to take into account too. For instance, at the moment if you have a flaky return path connection, it doesn't affect your broadcast services at all. If SDV were introduced, a flaky return path could cause a number of heartbeats from the set-top to be missed and you could lose your channel. SDV can't tell the difference between SD and HD so the customer has to select the correct channel. If they don't they might not get a picture or end up watching SD on their nice new HD TV set.


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