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Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitalt...-platform.html
Virgin Media has announced that it will soon deploy a new IP-based TV transmission platform to upgrade its legacy digital TV infrastructure. The cable operator intends to roll out Cisco's Digital Video Headend technology - including IP core and edge routing and switching - over its national fibre optic network to enable the expansion of standard and high definition TV services. |
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Sorry but not really technically up on this..:dunce:
What does it mean in lamens terms for us especially V+ users. Hopefully more channels (HD preferred) or better quality existing SD channels. |
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---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ---------- I could be wrong though.. |
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Surely there must be a benefit or knock on effect somewhere for digital tv customers
Would this roll out start next year after analogue shuts down? Maybe more channels or enchanced VOD. |
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Depends how they implement it. If they implement it via the phone line (and it's by no means certain they will, although that would be the cheapest way), then it would run independantly of the current cable TV system. It would also mean that they would not need to wait for the Analogue shut down.
If they implement it on the Cable network, then they may well have to replace every set top box eventually, which would bring a lot of benefits for the consumers (the boxes would almost certainly be faster and support MPEG 4), which would cost a *lot*. |
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Whereas just now every channel is broadcast on the network to every set top box whether they can view it or not. |
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Sounds like this is all happening faster than I expected!
I wonder how long it will be before the telephone service is offered over IP too. |
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it should also stop the tv thiefs, we we all need new boxes as well i believe
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If this is what is happening this we make things interesting. I think this could be the beginning of the end for non live TV Shows if they do this correctly. For me anyway the only shows I watch live is sport. You then could subscribe / buy shows you want like Itunes! I may be completely wrong though!
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IPTV uses a two-way digital broadcast signal sent through a switched telephone or cable network by way of a broadband connection and a set-top box programmed with software (much like a cable or DSS box) that can handle viewer requests to access to many available media sources. [edit] Interactivity An IP-based platform also allows significant opportunities to make the TV viewing experience more interactive and personalized. The supplier may, for example, include an interactive program guide that allows viewers to search for content by title or actor’s name, or a picture-in-picture functionality that allows them to “channel surf” without leaving the program they’re watching. Viewers may be able to look up a player’s stats while watching a sports game, or control the camera angle. They also may be able to access photos or music from their PC on their television, use a wireless phone to schedule a recording of their favorite show, or even adjust parental controls so their child can watch a documentary for a school report, while they’re away from home. Note that this is all possible, to some degree, with existing digital terrestrial, satellite and cable networks in tandem with modern set top boxes.[citation needed] In order that there can take place an interaction between the receiver and the transmitter a feedback channel is needed. Due to this terrestrial, satellite and cable networks for television does not allow interactivity. However, interactivity with those networks can be possible in the combination with different networks like internet or a mobile communication network. [edit] VoD VoD stands for Video on Demand. VoD permits a customer to browse an online programme or film catalogue, to watch trailers and to then select a selected recording for playback. The playout of the selected movie starts nearly instantaneously on the customer's TV or PC. Technically, when the customer selects the movie, a point-to-point[disambiguation needed] unicast connection is set up between the customer's decoder (SetTopBox or PC) and the delivering streaming server. The signalling for the trick play functionality (pause, slow-motion, wind/rewind etc.) is assured by RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol). The most common codecs used for VoD are MPEG-2, MPEG-4 and VC-1. In an attempt to avoid content piracy, the VoD content is usually encrypted. Whilst encryption of satellite and cable TV broadcasts is an old practice, with IPTV technology it can effectively be thought of as a form of Digital Rights Management. A film that is chosen, for example, may be playable for 24 hours following payment, after which time it becomes unavailable. |
Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
Cisco press release (with Technical Links) is here http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html
Product Brochure for the Cisco kit is apparently here http://www.cisco.com/en/US/solutions...cd80613e44.pdf |
Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
Here's hoping that its on the Cable network and that its sodding encryption is better and a lot stronger than the 2 bit system they use now. Look at Ireland and what Nagra 3 has done to the thieving scummy types and the good news is they have not cracked it :rofl::rofl:
Also lets have this asap so we can watch the thieving scummy types over here crying over there dead boxes :LOL: Additional reading http://www.iptv-forum.com/ http://www.iptv-news.com/ |
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Long term, it would make more sense for them to have one unified system distributing to both ADSL and Cable Set Top boxes, but it depends on whether they are willing to pay the price for the inevitable STB upgrades.
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I wonder how many of them had a moan at the cable companies
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One of them wants to sue the cable company, because he cannot use his dodgy box that he paid good money for. :rolleyes: :D |
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agreed sirius, i dont know of any forums where these thieves are whinging, certainly is funny to think about them complaining though :D
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or potentially bright, if they implement it correctly ;)
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this definitely signals the beginning of the end for dodgy cable boxes.
I just hope they get the new set top box/middleware correct this time. Slow channel changes/turgid vod loading times, bigger hard drives all absolutely HAS to be perfected this time.:soapbox: |
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I'd love it if /eventually/ got to have a virgin tv box at home again :)
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Ah cool they've finally announced this, it's been a work in progress for ages.
This will, simply, end theft of TV as it is right now. It'll free huge amounts of bandwidth on the coaxial network too. It'll also be good for the internet side of the service as that will benefit from some network upgrades on the return path. This service needs a return path to work, no return path no TV. |
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BenMcr any time scales on this, am i right in think we will all need new set top boxes?
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Dunno on timescales.
As for new STBs I doubt it - otherwise why else would Virgin continue to install the existing stock? |
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And the site seems to be still down at the moment. |
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People talk of new STBs, surely all current boxes are capable (following software/firmware updates) of IPTV if a little slow at the process. Is it no coincidence that the new Samsung V+ boxes are capable of the more streamlined MPEG4 format?
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All the STBs have a network port, but surely all of them would need a firmware update. There are different brands, different models and all connected to the same network.
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But they all have to conform to the DVB-C standard ;)
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Exactly. Basically, Virgin's deployment hinges on them either adhering to that standard or sending out several million IPTV boxes to their subscribers.
What I reckon they could do, initially for a period of say 6-12 months, is trial it as a cable TV "replacement" in a certain area, then trial it alongside their current TV subscriber base, then roll out the changes if there's enough interest and it's viable, both on a bandwidth and initial cost basis, to do so. |
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I'm not sure where you are getting this IPTV box thing from. Nothing in the press releases mentions IPTV boxes.
What has been mentioned is an IPTV delivery platform to the headends. That's it. From there to the STBs can still be the current technology Even if it's not cable VoD is already IP based (as far as I am aware) so I would expect the current STBs can already do full IPTV if required ---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ---------- However what it could mean is that the headends could also deliver IP based TV over the cable modems |
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Would this mean that the red button would finally work on the 24 hour BBC News channel?:erm:
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But now I think about it, when I compare what the current solution for VoD is, adding IPTV to it doesn't seem so bad. It just means that if you want to watch a particular channel without watching a particular programme that the software would need to automatically load the next programme segment on the channel, be it trailers or the next TV show. Quote:
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There will be NO disscussion of HOW to hack ANY system or any indication on how to do so. |
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Won't be much use for an IPTV solution anyway.
IKS is hardly 'hacking' and for a nice responsive operator IKS is a minor irritation and brought down quickly. |
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Having had VM cable services before moving to an area which doesn't have it in the area, this post seems interesting to me. I know it was wrote back in September, has any progress been made since then?
Also, just to be clear, does this mean that all the channels available on VM could soon be available to people in homes nowhere near a cable network? I currently have BT Vision, and am really impressed with the on demand selection which comes with it. The only annoying thing is that any HD films or shows have to be downloaded over a period of a few hours. I recall VM were able to stream HD shows on demand. |
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VM are doing trials of IPTV over VDSL2 in an offnet area. |
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I do hope VM launch a national iptv service such as what Tiscili do. Does anyone believe BT's Fiber Optic network could be an advantage in making this type of thing happen? |
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With the new tivo software we will be able to do that according to reports. http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle7050684.ece This report suggests that internet browsing through your box will be available so you can watch documentaries etc streamed from the net. Plus special features like behind the scenes, making of, gad reels. This is just going to open it up massively and will be like no other tv experience in the uk. That's if they do implement it but they seem to suggest VM will. |
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The most recent version of the TiVo PVR isn't compatible with true IPTV systems, it requires cable or cable-a-like TV, it's a cable box that also connects to a broadband internet connection to access programming on the Internet, in a similar manner to, for example, newer Blu Ray players. http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-pr...setup.html#tab Again the TiVo service is nothing to do with Virgin's IPTV program. The Virgin box may use an internal cable modem to do standard CATV and TiVo Premiere functionality in one unit but TiVo is not indicative of an IPTV cable network and can be used fully on any cable network that allows you to plug in a cable card so long as you have a broadband connection for the IPTV part. |
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The article i posted says that you won't have to have bb package through VM but they will charge you a different way but it hasn't been worked out how or how much yet. I thought TIVO was to do with IPTV as i thought a lot of the delivery will be through an internet connection and the new Tivo software will allow you to search vast amounts of content as it will pick up things from the net aswell as VMs existing catv side. So if there is a difference what is it? Because Virgin announced both iptv and tivo will be launching this year and i imagined they will be part of the same thing. According to this article and many others seem to support my theory that Tivo and VM are coming together and delivering a mix of iptv and catv tv http://www.techradar.com/news/televi...-future-674066 By the way it's already been said we won't be getting premiere boxes but something different. |
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Sorry if my earlier question caused some confusion.
I was asking if VM had plans to deliver a tv service, such as is available at the mo on cable, over the internet, thus making it an iptv service. I wasn't asking if this new stb including tivo software would be available off the network. But thanks to all who gave a reply. What I'm still a little unclear on is if the previously mentioned off network trails of an IPTV service, I believe taking place in Cormwall, would be likely to be released nationally to anyone with a broadband connection. |
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The way it's working is over VDSL2+ via fiber to the cabinet, with the cabinets being connected directly to VM's network. In essence it's using VDSL2+ to extend the network. For it to be rolled out anywhere would require someone to roll out FTTC to the area (in cornwall it's vtesse) and it to be connected to VM's network. VM are not looking at supplying their services outside of their walled garden, if VM don't have a physical presence in an area then you won't get VM. Think of it like LLU, just having a phone line isn't enough to get adsl from an llu supplier, they have to have their equipment in your exchange. The same with this if it's rolled out, only instead of needing equipment in the exchange they need a complete FTTC infrastructure. |
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IPTV does not mean TV over the internet. IPTV uses a closed network, Internet TV is different. The TiVo tie in potentially provides both via a single box but is not the IPTV migration that's been discussed in the past and is in no way essential to the IPTV shift, it's STB software nothing more. A non-cable based IPTV service would not be using the Internet for broadcasts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTV#Di...om_Internet_TV VM's IPTV deployment is actually using Cisco kit. http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_091109.html The TV service will be using SDV on the VM access network. Content delivered to head ends and hubsites via IP routers and delivered to Cisco kit where the streams are managed, packaged up and pushed down the cable network in a similar manner to VoD streams. Again, TiVo Premiere is not IPTV, it is Internet TV, simply pulling content from the internet on a best effort basis using a TiVo provided front end. If IPTV were seen to be buffering you'd be wanting to do very unpleasant things indeed to your provider, this is perfectly possible with TiVo Premiere depending on the performance of the internet at the time. |
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Thank you, Ignitionnet, for clearing that up properly.
The important thing is that they have perfectly well enough bandwidth to deliver as many DTV channels as they like... but any further ones are down to contractual requirements with the customer rather than VM-specific operational ones. I assume that the new Cisco kit utilises some kind of multicast capability to headends? |
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Good job we aren't getting Tivo premiere i don't know why you keep mentioning it? VM have said they won't be using those boxes but VM and Tivo are launching something else in this country and VM will use it's own boxes. All i said to the person who asked the question earlier on is that they are launching an iptv service (even if it half and half everyone is calling it a new iptv service) and people on the cabled areas are getting it and non cable customers aren't. We're going round in circles and non of it really matters. |
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Would you please read what IPTV actually means and get out of your mind that IPTV involves the Internet. Ignore the tabloid and tech tabloid that feature articles written by clueless journos.
We're going around in circles because of your obsession that without TiVo or Internet integration there's no IPTV, this is not true, the IPTV upgrade is to free up space on the cable network for more HD and VoD it's nothing to do with TiVo! You do not need IPTV cable networks to run the TiVo services, they are running perfectly well over SDV and non-SDV CATV networks in the States and the TiVo service is not IPTV. Neither you nor I know what Virgin plan to do with the TiVo tie-up so to suggest it won't be TiVo Premiere rebranded and built into a VM branded box is an assumption. Indeed unless Virgin plan on giving every subscriber a TiVo equipped PVR, 4 million of them, it would seem quite likely that many customers will be using legacy STBs which are happily tuning in to IPTV streams. My point is they are very separate things. Talking about them like they are the same is just wrong. People will not suddenly wake up one morning to find their area has been upgraded to IPTV and they suddenly are able to stream off YouTube and their STB has grown a hard drive and is running a Tivo-based operating system. With the appropriate STB one could get exactly the same experience on a non-IPTV network - build a cable modem into the STB and use that for the internet content, which is likely what Virgin will do, and the job's done. It's actually not unlikely that Virgin will release a home gateway box - a single STB which combines TV, PVR, DOCSIS 3 Cable Modem, Wireless Router all in one. Having a single cable modem for both video and internet access won't be a major problem, bandwidth can be guaranteed for video streams in between the uBR / CMTS and the cable modem using assured information rate service flows while using the same equipment as the existing internet services in the headend. :) |
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I'm going to leave it here, you're obviously more switched on than i am. All i am going to say is that they won't be giving their new tv service to offnet customers anytime soon which is what i said in the first place. |
Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
Just to clarify a couple of points.
The new VM IPTV network does not involve SDV at all and it doesn't in itself actually free up any bandwidth. The coinciding drop of analogue services does. The TIVO product is totally separate and could easily be done without the new IPTV network. |
Re: Virgin Media to rollout new IPTV platform
Then the plot thickens - I was informed, perhaps misinformed, that the new Cisco Edge QAM equipment was being used for an SDV deployment.
Given you seem to know more about this than I do what is being done about the 550MHz areas that are pretty loaded up with QAMs even with analogue crushed, along with having heavily restricted capacity upstream due to the 30MHz return path? |
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Personally I can't see SDV being deployed to homes for many years yet, why would they need to? VM have huge capacity and with upgrades to existing technologies (docsis3/mpeg4/dvb-c2) vm can increase capacity to a much greater magnitude without deploying sdv to the front end. |
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The Edge QAMs that are going in as part of the IPTV project are SDV capable and all that's needed for the STBs is software. Tad more viable than replacing every set top with one that can do MP4 / dvb-c2 don't you think? DOCSIS 3 doesn't address the issue of RF networks being under stress - US companies that already run SDV aren't going to 1GHz networks for their health. I believe you are wrong about the masses of capacity. There's still a not inconsiderable part of the network which runs on 550MHz networks which are rather full and will need either SDV or plant upgrade in the not hugely distant future. |
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I can't really say what is definitely happening on the 550MHz networks but there are a few options.
1. First and most obvious is to change some or all of the current 64QAM carriers to 256QAM. That would give an immediate 30% increase in capacity. 2. Just because the network is rated to 550MHz doesn't mean you can't exceed that. I have seen QAMs up to 635MHz being used successfully on a 600MHz network. 3. DVB-C2 would also give a bandwidth boost but would obviously take time as DVB-C2 set-tops would be needed. 4. Changing from mpeg2 to mpeg4 would also give a bandwidth improvement but also needs new set-tops. This could be done in conjunction with DVB-C2. 5. SDV, as you say. 6. Upgrade the 550MHz network. Short-term, I doubt that it will be any one particular thing but a combination of 1 and 2. Long-term, it will depend on the strategic view. Since set-tops naturally have to be replaced anyway, 3 and 4 may well come into play at some point, but not now. Depending on timing, SDV may be an option but I think it's probably the least likely, given the expense and complexity of doing it. Upgrading the networks would be very expensive but it would at least standardise things - may be done but over a long period? |
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I would hope there will be no more huge network upgrades from the not too distant future on the HFC side apart from deep fibre, node + 1, and then RFoG / DPON. |
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The software for the set-tops would not be simple either as there are about 8 different set-top variants at the moment. Each performs differently and has a different, finite amount of memory. I'll bet there would need to be many months of development and testing involved before there could be any confidence that SDV would work reliably with all set-tops. There are a lot of other considerations to take into account too. For instance, at the moment if you have a flaky return path connection, it doesn't affect your broadcast services at all. If SDV were introduced, a flaky return path could cause a number of heartbeats from the set-top to be missed and you could lose your channel. SDV can't tell the difference between SD and HD so the customer has to select the correct channel. If they don't they might not get a picture or end up watching SD on their nice new HD TV set. |
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