T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8243226.stm

T-Mobile UK and Orange are to merge - becoming the UK's biggest mobile phone firm with 28.4 million customers.

Doesn't mention Virgin Mobile, but Orange are probably the least likely to get nasty with them (I hope)

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Thanks for this info Ben maybe now Apple will have a rethink about giving exclusivity to O2 for the iphone as O2 will no longer be the biggest operator.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Read a bit further into it. It seems that half the new company will still be half owned by T-Mobile so there shouldn't be any change at all for Virgin Mobile - except access to Orange coverage

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Orange would not give me a contract T mobile did I wonder what will happen at upgrade time :)

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

Jailbreaking and unlocking the Iphone is common place nowadays :)

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Indeed, my iPhone 3g works very well on Virgin mobile ;)

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Orange is NOT going to merge with T-Mobile as France Telecom has denied this and has insufficient funds to do so.

The bidders will be Vodafone and 3.

Vodafone may find it difficult because the competition commision might get involved and T-Mobile and Vodafone run on two very different frequencies whilst 3 and T-Mobile run on similar frequencies and also share 3G sites. Hutchison Whampoa has a lot more funds than France Telecom.

T-Mobile have quietly being offering the Iphone to high spending customers who are threatning to leave as a retentional deal.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

Omg it is true! Well time to ditch my back up T-Mobile sim. Orange is Crap!

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Really? It was the other way around with me. (Well, Tmobile were one2one back then)

Isn't that kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face?

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

What does worry me is the comment in the BBC news:
I wonder how this leaves the Virgin Mobile customers when their contracts come for renewal?

Whilst it's not a merger as such, it's about as close as you can get to it without calling it a merger:

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

It shouldn't affect them as the price they pay is tied into the agreement VM have to operate on the T-Mobile network

As T-Mobile will retain part ownership then the agreement remains in place and so should the prices and terms.

However the sticking point will come at the next renewal of the MVNO agreement

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Some analysts are saying that the regulators may insist on a Virgin split:

"Regulators will most likely focus on the two firms’ partnerships, the Ovum analysts said. “Regulators will have to look at the Virgin Mobile wholesale deal with T-Mobile and T-Mobile’s network-sharing deal with 3,� Hartley and Obiodu said.

“We expect the Virgin Mobile deal to be decoupled – Orange/T-Mobile tacitly suggested this by separating out Virgin Mobile’s customers in their subscriber data,� they added."

Full article here : http://www.itpro.co.uk/614878/surpri...ange-uk-market

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I think that just means make it clear who are VM customers in the 'this is how many people we have using our network' data rather than anything serious

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Less competition, fewer good deals I bet...

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Yeah because if you are a Virgin Mobile 3G customer you will be using:

T-Mobile or Orange's 2G network and then you will be using 3's 3G network, its like one big network and can't see the goverment going with that!

However when Virgin and T-Mobile signed agreements and contracts for Virgin Mobile to use the T-Mobile network the contracts generally run for a period of 5 to 10 years, so they can't just kick them off. Its like when you sell a house with sitting tennants in, you can't just chuck them out.

What if Virgin uses the 3 network, that is more likely to happen, following reasons:

3 won't be expensive, 3 will get desperate and will offer Virgin Media a good deal.

3 does not compete with Virgin Media on services such as homephone,broadband,dial up internet,Analogue TV,Digital TV,FM Radio or business telecoms products.

So that will create a good partnership.

O2 competes with Virgin Broadband

Vodafone competes with Virgin phone and Virgin Broadband with its Vodafone at home service.

Orange also competes with Virgin phone and Virgin Broadband,Orange also offers Business telecoms products which you could say compete with NTL Telewest Business services.

Orange and Vodafone work with Arquiva formerly NTL Broadcast, Arquiva is planning to launch IPTV services similar to Tiscali TV in the UK, When France Telecom got rid of its shares in NTL, it quit working with NTL UK and some kind of industry dispute arose, so I cannot see Virgin Media working with a group that competes in every way and cannot see Virgin Media working with orange when it works with Arquiva as its planning to launch a TV service which threatens Cable TV.

So for good working relations, 3 would be the best partner.

3 will offer 98% 3G coverage of the UK population, in the past it had issues with network coverage, that was because the network was new and 3G technology was just taking off in Britain, I have seen an improvement.

I think once 3 has completed its improvements to network coverage it should launch a new advertising campaign focusing on the network coverage issue, it could offer a 30 day money back gaurantee if customers find the network coverage poor, and then launch something similar to Orange's network performance promise, where phone calls drop due to poor coverage offer reimbursements.

From my experience, I found Orange 2G and 3G quite bad where ever I go, on the 2G reception from Orange, the reception bars would bounce up and down and offer poor sound quality during calls, when sending texts, i would sometimes have to press resend because the reception bars would immediately go to 0 or 1 bar and this was with a few phones. Now my problem with Orange 3G, I would get no coverage in my house and if I put it on dual mode, while i'm out it would constantly bounce from 2G to 3G all the time which meant missing incomming calls during the automatic process. Another problem with Orange 3G is that when using features such as You Tube, it would frequently keep braking out when streaming.

Now I don't get any of those problems with 3.

Now the problem with T-Mobile 2G, indoor coverage is shocking,not just my house but at work and virtually every building i go into, and as for basement flats! Forget it! Voicemail definately useful there lol Another problem I have experienced is when going outside london especially semi rural areas, the reception again lets me down.

I have no proper experience of T-Mobile's 3G coverage, as I have always had 2G phones when using T-Mobile or Virgin Mobile.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Perhaps I'll get a decent signal on my orange phone now, My T-mobile had full signal at all times.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

It will take a while before you see any changes.

Also what will happen to emergency services and International operator?

On T-Mobile its provided by Cable and Wireless
On Orange its provided by BT (Orange doesnt have international operator)

I think what they will do is run the two companies seperately like Vodafone and 3 in Australia.

In Australia, 3 and Vodafone are now owned by one group Vodafone-Hutchison Australia. However, 3 and Vodafone trade seperately.

In Australia, Hutchison quit using the Orange brand name when it migrated all its 2G customers to 3, therefore the Hutchison network in Australia is now completely 3G like here in the UK, I suppose integrating the two networks will allow better 3G coverage and provide 2G coverage for 3 customers.

Maybe thats what they will do here with Orange and T-Mobile. The group name could be called Deutsch Telekom Orange UK and T-Mobile UK and Orange Personal Communications services could be subsidaries. They could then merge the networks together but have two seperate customer bases as we currently know them.

A new subsidary could be formed specifically for business customers under a new brand name.

The T-Mobile brand is very popular and is known in many countries around the world, so I could not see Deutsche Telekom just sit there and let there brand which they spent billions on promoting go down the toilet just like that, they will continue using it.

Orange is the same, its the best brand name which France Telecom holds and spent a hell of a lot purchasing it from the previous owners together with the networks, in fact Hutchison continued leasing the brand from France Telecom in several countries around the world including Hong Kong until they launched 3.

Therefore existing names will probably be used.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

To the the average joe bloggs on the street, Orange UK has been around since the early 90s whereas T Mobile only hit the high street in 2002/3

So therefore the T Mobile brand could go the way of Wannadoo when orange acquired them

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

well as long as my coverage stays workable and my bill does not go up and they keep my contract going I do not care who owns the carrier lol

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Well, seeing as Orange is the only network I can receive reliably at home, and the virtual operators I'd like to be able to choose from are mostly on T-Mobile's network, I reckon I'll be nicely sorted by this time next year. Virgin Mobile keep sending me some pretty good deals through the post to 'thank' me for being an internet customer and I've been peeved at not even being able to consider them, due to the nearest T-Mobile coverage area being several miles from here.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

The only real change will proberly be that T-Mobile & Orange customers will be able to access each others network towers.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Initially, perhaps, but if they want to make this deal work financially in the medium term they are going to have to come up with a single, unified brand and pricing structure.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

It does mean I may be able to get hold of the Toshiba TG01 or its postdecessor( whats the opposite of predecessor? ) next year lol

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

You'll probably get two company names as such, but the whole point of the tie up is to eliminate costs where resources overlap. Certainly I think when contracts come up for renewal, then there will be a common contract offered for both sets of customers - and I wouldn't hold my breath about it being cheaper.

---------- Post added at 01:45 ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 ----------

Probably higher too..

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Successor. :)

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Will the new company be called Tangerine?

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I wondered about the new name too.
Orange Mobile? T-Orange? France Deutsche Telecom UK?

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Instead of T-Mobile it will be O-Mobile

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Maybe Oh!-Mobile

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

If it wasn't already taken T-ango :D

Maybe we will get a signal both at home and work.

Orange is good at hubbys work but his T-Mobile G1 picks up a Vodaphone connection first. At home there is no Orange signal but good T-Mobile. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/09/6.gif

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

What I am trying to say is that we will be able to get free Iphones with our Orange contracts.

Jailbreaking might be common practice but it still means spending quite a lot of money buying an iphone.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I think there are two sad things about this, first of all there will be job losses and the other is that prices will go up, that is a certainty.

I have a better deal with Vodaphone.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

for the ES they will still be provided by BT as per every other operator in the country as per the goverment!

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Well I have had my HTC Touch HD since May and I still cannot get Orange maps which is part of my package, I have rung so many times, they always fob me off some bs reason as to why it's not working this time and promise a return call which they never give. I have asked them twice now to cancel contract on grounds of failure to provide the service paid for and they just refuse to accept responsibility, funny thing is I had thought of going to T-Mobile when/if I took Orange to small claims court. Not any more!

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Orange and T-Mobile Merger News

Virgin have got new contract and this should help to improve pricing and flexibility

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Its also provided by Cable and Wireless as previously stated, on Virgin phone lines,T-Mobile phones and Virgin Mobile phones.

Orange on the other hand is provided by BT

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Thanks for this info Ben maybe now Apple will have a rethink about giving exclusivity to O2 for the iphone as O2 will no longer be the biggest operator.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

BT holds the contract for 999 and no one else!

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I am assuming you mean future iphones? As the ihone is available on Orange now and will be available on Vodaphone after Crimbo

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

irishguymcr's post was made way back at the beginning of September, about three weeks before the Orange/iPhone tie-up was announced. ;)

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Well it's been approved http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8543683.stm

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

The European Commission said certain steps must be taken to protect the UK's smallest network operator, 3

What steps are to be taken? Whats going to happen with the 2G sharing agreement, will they continue to use Orange 2G or will they also be allowed to now use T-Mobile 2G too?

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

More technical details here http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03...ange_approved/

Specifically, T-Orange will be handing over 30MHz of the 120MHz the combined company holds at 1800MHz, and has signed a deal with 3UK which binds the new entity into maintaining the shared network

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Read Ben's link, does this mean Orange and T-Mobile will consolidate their masts to produce better coverage or maintain all masts with just reduced frequencies?

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

If 3uk are so small, then why do they provide the best 3g connection in the uk?
How soon will this merge go ahead, would it be worth keeping my virgn mbile account going hoping for a better signal One day. My account is due for renewel next month.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

T-Mobile and 3 recently merged there 3G infrastructure, I know it has been completed in the South of England, so Virgin/T-Mobile customers will have the same 3G network coverage as 3 customers.

Unfortunetly, T-Mobile 2G remains the same for now and won't be merged with Orange's 2G network for a while, in fact it will take 18 months after the merge is completed before they even trade as one big company, therefore you are looking at 2 to 3 years. In fact, it might not be worth merging the 2G networks since more and more people are upgrading to 3G phones, In japan,2G no longer exists!

I had trouble getting 3G coverage in one side of my home on 3 and T-Mobile, since it merged, I have at least 3 bars of 3G network coverage in the blackspot side of my home.

The Orange 3G infrastructure will probably be merged into MBNL(T-Mobile/3) 3G infrastructure.

MBNL is the 50/50 joint venture company owned by Hutchison 3G UK and T-Mobile UK which owns and maintains the 3G sites used by 3 and T-Mobile, as Virgin Mobile uses T-Mobile's network, Virgin Mobile customers recieve the same level of network coverage from it. T

The 2G sites owned by T-Mobile remain the same, 3 have no 2G infrastructure and use Orange 2G where 3G isn't available, this is part of a contracted lease. 3 formerly used the O2 network, but switched to Orange in 2006.

When the merger of 3 and T-Mobile 3G infrastructure is complete and there 3G coverage reaches 99%, I would expect 3 to run advertising campaigns and heavily invest in new phones and advertising to win over customers. That maybe the reason why 3 don't offer the iphone yet, they have learned that offering a service which isn't ready yet, does not satisfy customers, when 3 launched in the UK, the network coverage was very incomplete and offered poor service, now is the time to join 3 as the reception is much better.

Which has the largest 3G network, Orange or 3?

Well, the answer is 3, despite the recent advertising campaigns by Orange, 3 offers the widest 3G coverage in the UK,Why? Because they have more 3G masts then Orange and since the merger of 3 and T-Mobile 3G infrastructure hasn't been completed yet, its fair to say that 3 offers the widest 3G coverage. Orange claim they offer the widest 3G coverage for one reason, the fact that they cover the most towns and cities and villages, however, that does not mean you will get decent 3G coverage indoors or in certain buildings. By putting a 3G mast in every town,village and city, Orange is allowed to make that claim. Its kind of misleading.

When the the merge of 3 and T-Mobile's 3G infrastructure is complete, 3,T-Mobile and Virgin Mobile will offer the widest 3G coverage and when the merge of Orange and T-Mobile's business is completed, 3,T-Mobile,Virgin and Orange will leave O2,Tesco,Asda and Vodafone looking pretty outdated.

The solution for O2 and Vodafone is to merge its 3G infrastructure with each other to offer a similar level of service.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

There is still a chance that the merger of T-Mobile and Orange may be blocked if 3 and the UK's competition commision get there way according to the news articles though.

However, I think the merger maybe good for 3 as people will look to 3 as an alternative, I know a lot of people that hate Orange and T-Mobile with a passion, but when it comes to spectrum, thats where 3 should be worried, increasing costs to frighten off customers away from 3 would be Orange/T-Mobile's first task.

I mean phones like Nokia N97 are being offered by 3 on dirt cheap tariffs, When or if the iPhone range comes to 3 UK, the prices will make Orange,Vodafone and O2 look like con artists.

I will certainly take up the iphone 3GS on 3 if/when it comes out.

1.Free 3 to 3 calls
2. Free Skype
3. Unimited Texts
4.Fast downloads and mobile internet
5.Free voicemail
6. Generous amount of minutes to call other networks

Appeals to me because

1.I know around 8 people that I regularly call who are on 3.
2. I use Skype a lot
3. I don't like the idea of paying extra for voicemail when its basically a robot
4.Low cost calls to 08 numbers, no way am I paying T-Mobile 40p per minute!
5. Network capacity on Vodafone,O2,Orange and T-Mobile tends to be smaller, it always takes time to load up pages when surfing the net on your phone.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

All those issues have been resolved according to the latest BBC News article

The OFT said its competition concerns had been "fully addressed"

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Regarding iPhone on 3 - Orange are crooks in this as their tariffs are nowhere NEAR as appealing as Vodafone's or o2's.

Provided the coverage improves in both 2G and 3G, especially HSDPA, I think the merger can only be a good thing. It will spur the other operators to do something about their coverage too.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I thought Orange's were more appealing than O2's

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Orange and T mobile have announced that their customers can sign up for a roaming agreement that allows them to switch to the network with best coverage.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09...ange_t_mobile/

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Thanks for the info Stuart

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Now that could come in handy. T-mobile have a dead area near me and a friend has to hang out of a window to get a signal at her new flat. :D

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

We have some Orange kit in the Headend and there has been a lot of work going on expanding the bandwith and putting new kit in .I wonder if its for this ? :erm:

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Bet we won't see Virgin Mobile customers getting the same facility. I've heard plenty moaning about their coverage.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I suspect you will need to wait until the networks are formally merged for that. I can't wait, Orange is the only reliable network where I live but as a light user myself, I'd love to be able to choose from the deals on some of the virtual networks like Tesco, Asda, Ikea and everyone else ... most if not all of whom seem to be carried on T-Mobile.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Tesco Mobile is a joint venture with O2.

Asda Mobile uses the Vodaphone network.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

... neither of which work at my house. :shrug: But thanks for the info. :D

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

You can now sign up to use the other operators network:
Orange Customers https://kareena.orange.co.uk/share/
T-Mobile Customers http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/share/

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

Any news from Virgin yet?

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

You will get several texts (free) from your provider (Orange sent me 4).

My logo now says Orange T-Mobile, if yours doesn't you may need to go into the phones setting and select "Orange T-Mobile", I don't know if T-Mobile has it in the same order or the other way round

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------

Just had a 5th, telling me I've picked up a T-Mobile signal for the first time.

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

I am on Orange and have roamed on T mobile quite a few times but the problem I have found is that it does not switch back to Orange until you get to an area where no T mobile coverage so the automatic switching doesnt seem to work and also as its only 2G very slow data speeds they seem actually slower than Orange GPRS

Re: T-Mobile and Orange to merge
 

But they're working on the 3G for next year.