Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

says senior tory

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1776160.html

Personally I don't think we should have wasted as much time as we did debating it in parliment, the country had and has much more pressing issues to deal with, although it did rather annoy me to hear that arch buffon Tony Banks shouting ''that showed the toffs'' when it finally was banned, he was obviously more interested in some sort of class discrimination than any issues of animal rights/cruelty and besides if the figures are true about the huge increase in fox deaths since the ban then I am all for it staying and it's a shame we cant do the same in the cities, I am sick of seeing the mess they create and the occasional cat being chased.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

TBH I can't understand what motivates people to want to kill wild creatures using overwhelming force, hardly sport is it? Now if the animals could fight back on equal terms I'd be happy with that but then I suppose it would lose its appeal to some people.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Of course the ban on fox hunting had nothing to do with over £1 million in donations to the Labour Party from the organisation, Political Animal Lobby. (Link)

As if Labour would do something corrupt for money, you know, like planning to ease the ban on smoking sponsorship just for Formula 1, never mind Trade Union donations and other donations below £1million.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Interesting that you defend poor little foxy woxy whilst being quite happy to see your fellow man die. I agree with you though it's not sport, it's pest control and I'll sign up to anything the gets rid of as many of them as possible as quickly as possible.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The difference there is that people have a choice, foxes don't..

If foxes are considered a pest in an area (and no they're not a common pest) then there's a lot more effiecient and humane ways of disposing of them than being torn to pieces by a pack of dogs..

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The idea of Fox Hunting is not to eradicate them, but provide a limiting factor on their numbers.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'd agree with you in the past, but in the last few decades before it was banned it turned more into a sport...

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Very emotive terminology your using there, torn to pieces, still I bow to your greater knowledge of hunts, seeing as I have never been on one and I absolutely agree with you about how efficient we are becoming, you only have to see the increase in exterminating them since the ban was brought in and I guess we can be sure that it isn't only the old, lame and full of mange that's being ''torn to pieces'' either but the young and the healthy being shot, suits me :tu:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

That sounds like a great sport. On the home leg the fox gets hunted and on the return leg Chinless Inbred-Tory gets hunted by a load of foxes. It would be unfair to expect foxes to control dogs so they should be armed with sub machine-guns to level things up. :)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Since when has hunting with dogs only gone for the old and lame?? If so then it wouldn't be much good as pest control then anyway???

Here in the village there used to be a few hunts and more and more places were being taken up by city boys who were turning it into a commerial hunt purely for the sport..

I've no qualms about shooting rabbits decemating our field and probably would shoot a fox if it was attacking chickens...

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 34860413) there's a lot more effiecient and humane ways of disposing of them than being torn to pieces by a pack of dogs..

Sounds like a very quick death to me that does. ;)

Would you rather they be shot from distance and die slowly in some hedge? :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by injuneer (Post 34860399) TBH I can't understand what motivates people to want to kill wild creatures using overwhelming force, hardly sport is it? Now if the animals could fight back on equal terms I'd be happy with that but then I suppose it would lose its appeal to some people.

So your happy with dog fighting? :erm: :dozey:

Look its kind of a sport but at the end of the day foxes are vermin a pest who eats lambs, chickens etc and spread diseases :(. They need controlling in some way hey will breed and before you know it we are over run in the city and countryside with theses pests. :erm:

Many years ago I looked after 20 chickens when I was a butcher I had a thing for theses chickens as you do when you feed an animal daily. One day I opened the hatch everyone bar two had the head ripped of just there bodies left!! Mr fox did not have the decency to eat the chickens he just mindlessly killed them for fun!!! This upset me :( ever since I have been in favour of fox control.

IMO :)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I would have thought they wouldn't have much chance of catching a young, healthy fox, which is why I am in favour of shooting them and the ban staying in place, as I have said all through the thread.

Interesting and quite sad that you say it was city boys in your village, I recognised or knew nearly everyone participating in my old towns, which's only up the road from you incidentally, it was handy as it meant I could moan at them for delaying me when I next saw them.

Or snared

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Shooting if done right is the fastest way of killing the fox outright.. but I'd be perfectly happy with cage trapping and humane disposal if foxes were a problem in an area..

Weird thing is that we talk to all the local farmers in this area which has a high fox and badger population and none of them have problems at all with them..

In the end though the arguements for fox hunting is nothing to do with pest control but more to do with income for the people involved (hence it became a sport)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yes, you're right, fellow man is a bit of a pest. ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

That surprises me. I though foxes only killed what they could eat. :dunce:

Maybe the fox was framed. Did you interview the 2 surviving chickens? They could have been the Rose and Fred West of the poultry world but didn't have the resources to build a patio. :)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It's all changed :( even before the ban the local hunt trails ceased to exist though it was a fantastic course on the Chilterns... even in the smaller villages too many houses became 2nd homes... My partners lived in this house all their life and in that time the size of this village alone has multiplied by a factor of 4..

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Kill what they can carry of more like, chances are foxy would have been back to bury the rest some where else given the chance.

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

That's progress for you :(

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

More than likely to be stray dogs..... :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

No, no - It's the right to bear arms, not the right to arm bears.....;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Foxes don't "mindlessly" kill for fun, True that faced with a handy, ready meal they will take advantage & if they were able they would come back for the rest. Usually they don't get the opportunity to return to cash in on that advantage. I presume these Chickens were for slaughter anyway, so what's the difference? Oh yes, Foxy didn't pay for them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well the butchers that I worked at which was bang in the middle of the countryside in a village had a fox problem hence why they fox hunt a lot there.

Which is why I’m 100% confident it was a fox. It’s a know fact they kill for fun!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Simple question, did you see the animal make the attack?? If not then you can't be 100%

Most 'fox' attacks are stray dogs and with the safeguards put in place to prevent foxes only a larger dog can normally get past them..

I'm not saying that some areas don't have a problem with foxes but I can assure you that only 10% of the hunts are in these areas :(

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Many years ago we lost all 5 of our pet chickens to the fox. As children we were terribly upset and the fact that 4 of the 5 had been killed but left behind added insult to injury. Of course we decided to bury the remaining 4 nearby only to find a day or two later that the fox had exhumed them all! We'd unwittingly done the fox's job for him!! As has been said by others here, left to their devices, foxes will kill in numbers and then return repeatedly to the scene in order to retrieve as many carcasses as they can. That's what survival in the wild is all about.

Anyway, whatever happens about this issue in Westminster, all I hope is that it doesn't take up as much precious parliamentary time as it did under Bliar's 'government' and still result in a total shambles.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

No the chickens where for free range eggs! :dozey: :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

i hope that someday you will have a pack of hounds chewing at your nuts and then come back to the forum and express your opinion.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Thats a tad harsh. :erm:

One thing being an animal another a human.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

My little Timber (all 40Kg of him) likes nuts!!!

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/12/3.jpg

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It might very well be a 'know fact' but it is also completely wrong. The fox like all predators acts purely on instinct-in the wild if a fox were to get close to a flock of birds, it might manage to kill one or two but the rest would scatter to safety. As the fox can't be sure when the next meal will be coming, its instinct is to kill more than it needs to stock up.

You can imagine that in a confined space with a lot of trapped, frightened birds all flapping about the fox gets confused, attacks and kills everything that is moving, takes what it can and tries to return later for the rest-although it doesn't normally get the chance before the owner discovers what has happened.

The fox certainly isn't killing for fun-that seems to be something exclusive to humans-although it sure doesn't help the owner much, his chickens are just as dead whatever the fox's motive.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I will take that on board, fair point. :tu:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I hope he loves his owner more than some dogs do::shocked:

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk...7085-24437692/

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

A bit harsh, imho - licking - yes; chewing, no thanks.......;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Maybe, maybe not, coincidentally one of the jobs I have to do when our schools caretaker gets back is tell him that a fox got his 2 pet chickens, his hamster died to but he was expecting that, great holiday, shame most of his pets died whilst he was away, thank God his dog was safely locked up, the last dog I know of that got bitten by a fox had to be put down, three or four different diseases transmitted to it, including mange and a yeast infection IIRC

---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

At least I have an opinion worth sharing, still thanks for your contribution, it takes all sorts I guess

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

How many stray dogs have you got round your neck of the woods? It's foxes and round here they are a massive problem, despite the best efforts of motorists to solve it. The rubbish is horrible and it's always foxes I see digging through it, plus I have seen several chasing cats and the final straw for me I think is when I saw one emerge from the under growth with a dead cat in it's mouth.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It is though a valid point.. A person would be in great distress by a pack of dogs attacking them yet others would happily do it to a fox.. Perhaps not though put in the best phrase by the poster ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Tell you what the day I come home with some ones cat or chicken in my mouth feel free to set your dog on me.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well he's already put a policeman in hospital ;)

As I've said I'm all for humane killing of any pest as long as they are an actual pest in the area that they're being culled.

But chasing them round the country in all areas as what has become a sport isn't my idea of pest control..

(BTW..anyone watching whale wars as this is so similar an arguement :D )

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Not to fussed tbh if people want to get a kick out of it I don't really care, there's far, far more important things to be worrying about

Are whale's a pest to anything other than plancton?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm of the opinion that creatures which become pests need to be controlled. That includes foxes in some areas and rats, for example, which few people seem to have too many misgivings about despatching.

Personally I'd rather see all such pest control done as humanely as reasonably possible and don't feel comfortable with the thought that people derive pleassure from it. However, nature subjects the animal kingdom to a myriad of grisly deaths in the natural course of things and it's possible to view human activity as just another.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

But one point you haven't mentioned is that most deaths in nature which is one animal killing another is based on killing for food..

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm not fussed either way about fox hunting (the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible), but I do think that Big Brother is inhumane and a cruel and unusual torture process, so shouldn't we be banning that?

(and no, I don't watch it, but I have to leave the room when SWMBO and daughter watch it, as I cannot afford to replace the TV ;) ).

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

No I didn't, mainly because it doesn't make much difference to the dead animal whether it's killed for food or because it's a pest to us humans or, indeed, whether it suffers a long painful death as a result of simply getting ill or injured in the wild.

As I've said, I believe as much as possible should be done to ensure pest control is humane. I also believe that we need to control pests even though that status is not their fault, it's just nature conflicting with humanity.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

There's no need for your urban fox to kill for food, it eats our rubbish + certain morons want to feed the bloody things and leave food out for them, if it was eating rats instead of cats it'd might be different and don't think I am some sort of massive cat fan, they decimated small bird populations for no real reason and poo all over peoples gardens, that said I'd prefer not to see one being chased to an unknown fate by a fox again.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I've never seen a cat run away from a Fox, the cats around here take no notice of them & if they do get a little close they just turn around, hiss at them they're off like a shot. Now the Cats & Foxes don't get too close to the Badgers though. I Have seen Foxes catch Rats.
As for them feeding on rubbish, who leaves the rubbish around for them? We do. It's our laziness that encourages so called 'pests' to become a problem.
Most natural predator populations are self regulating, they adjust to the food availability. I expect the human race (as a top predator) will soon have to adjust to food shortages as well in the not too distant future. As an aside, did anyone see on the news about the massive crop failures in the USA?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You know if you enter ''fox kills cat'' you get over a million hits on google, here's an interesting one. I drive around London most nights and this year I have seen foxes chasing cats 4 or 5 times, I'd never seen it before, the foxes seem a lot bolder these days to, many don't even bother running when I disturb them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

As mentioned in an earlier post by Osem, I too have no problem with foxes being dispatched in cases where they are a provable nuisance or a threat to health, but there is something insidious about a baying pack of dogs under the command of chinless wonders like Otis Ferry chasing down an animal in the name of sport.
In my opinion taking pleasure in killing an animal that isn't going to end up on the table is both perverted and sick.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

it seems to me that fox hunting is the most inefficient way of controlling a pest anybody could have thought of
farmers and rural land owners say that foxes are a pest and need to be controlled ,i don't dispute that, but take into consideration that not every hunt gets a fox ,they are only held a couple of times a month,horses and dogs both get injured during a hunt, private property gets damaged ...not very efficient really is it and when was the last time (obviously before the ban)did a hunter say that he didn't really enjoy it they were doing it for the good of the countryside.I'm sorry but if a fox is that much of a nuisance then a much more humane and efficient method of control should be employed .In the mean time should ex fox hunters feel the urge to hunt something then they are quite welcome to dress up mount their horses and chase some rats which i believe are multiplying exponentially

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Fox hunting was a very inefficient way of controlling foxes besides being rather cruel.So are many hunting methods that rely on dogs.:(

However foxes can and do get to the point where they are in danger of eating out their resources.Some sort of control is required to keep any of our native species numbers at a healthy level.

However as someone pointed out earlier I don't think that for some supporters that the health of foxes was paramount in their decision to vote against the sport.I remember one MP suggesting going after the sport od angling next..Stupid woman.At least fish can be eaten unlike foxes.:rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Mmmmmmmmmmmm - foxes......

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well when I used to live on a farm with my parents we never saw the need to go hunting but we DID have the need to sort the foxes out.

So I'm going to make myself unpopular now and say that when I caught a fox attacking our rabbits (think farming scale - not just one or two) or chickens etc I shot it. They were nothing but vermin to me. But I never felt the need to go hunting them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

That's what I thought. A fox hunt seems like a rather inefficient way of dealing with a fox problem.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Exactly.Shooting them is and was a far more efficient way of dealing with them than get a group dressed in red jackets on horseback to go mob handed and watch a pack of hounds kill one by tearing it to bits.That is truly bestial and completely unnecessary.

Fox hunting was never about controlling foxes at all.However I didn't like the way it was dealt with by Parliament.This Labour government is far too keen to 'ban' things IMHO.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

imho, a fox hunt is a solution in search of a problem.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Oscar Wilde Nailed it. The unspeakable pursuing the inedible.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

There is no need to chase 1 fox with 30 odd blood thirsty dogs, that will rip the poor fox appart.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

For me, i can understand a farmer with a legitimate reason to SHOOT foxes to protect his livelyhood ( but struggle with life v money) but after having a mother fox and her cubs in my garden and watching them intently even stepping outside i found them quite trusting, maybe it's because of loss of habbitat or food i don't know i cannot condone killing them in a "sport".

There is absolutly no way you can convince me that hunting them with dogs is the right way to control fox population, infact i feel a little feeling inside when i see them that just makes me happy (bit of a hippy maybe) maybe farmers should just put more research into protecting their livestock rather than killing them (i now what i said above) if you cannot protect your livestock from an animal that is intellectually inferior to you maybe you should just give up tbh.

but it is interesting that rich/well t do people enjoy this sport because they are the sort of people i would gladly kill as they have nothing to offer the human race especially when they pass their "knowledge" to their children. but obviously there is a double standard there because i would willingly kill kill something with a lower intellect to right wrongs.

i am a meat eater first and formost but i only eat food that is farmed for purpose killing a fox is pointless due to the point laid out above:if you can stop a prisoner getting out you can stop a fox getting in if you've the intelligence.

anybody who has taken the time to watch these animals would agree, they are beautiful and even peaceful to me, even though they have tipped my wheelie bin to get to chicken but unless you've been so priviledged to not be hungry you'll never know.

hope the toffs have a painfull/fatal accidents on there stupid/cowardly outings

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Interesting that your concern for animal welfare doesn't extend to rats.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

I wonder how many other people against hunting are more concerned with class discrimination than the actual foxes, I seem to remember quite a few Labour MP's wooping for joy that ''the toffs were taken down a peg'' on the night it was banned.

---------- Post added at 00:52 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

I quite agree far better to shoot it, don't want it escaping after all.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I was brought up in the city, I have no affection for fox hunting. It is a way of life and a class apart from my lifestyle.

But if people want to chase after fox's on horseback with dogs then I don't see the issue.

People are happy to have fox's shot, poisoned etc.

It's a non-issue, I'm pretty sure that if you asked most people they couldn't give a toss.

What I am against is this country's obsession with banning things, or offending people. There's too many twisted morals in this country.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Can you back this up please.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You'll find that most of the hunts these days (including fox hunting before it was banned) was more CHAVS than country people..

As for killing badgers/birds of prey that's an extremely old viewpoint when landowners wanted grouse moors (or other hunting ground) so killed any natural predator like eagles so there was more for them to shoot and badgers were killed for the fact that they carried bovine TB..

These days most badger sets are let be and the only people killing birds are the nutters who seems to think that they look better stuffed and mounted :(

My own viewpoint is that if you're gonna kill anything then it has to be one of two things.. A pest that damages your livelyhood/health or an animal that you or someone else is gonna eat.. and at that point the killing whether it be pest or food should be by the quickest way possible..

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm a country (or was) person and i dont like to kill things :confused:

Why do townies like to stab people? :confused:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Thanks for that...

Now can you post links that prove the following statement.

'Why do "country people" always want to kill things?'

Unless of course you mean /some/ and not ALL of them?

Thank you for your links though. :tu:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Two of them stories go back to 2002 :rolleyes: Also I'm sure that the reports on knife crime that outweigh the countryside killers reports by a few thousand percent doesn;t mean that every child is a knife weilding maniac..

Does make me laugh when people bring up news reports to prove a theory when it's obvious that the news only reports a small percentage of a one sided viewpoint :D

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm a country person, but all I want to kill are mutant space zombies on my computer. And Triffids, but I'm not sure if that counts.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It was a tongue in cheek comment. :PP:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

My point is this,fox hunting is an extremely inefficient method for controlling foxes and ergo is therefore not really about controlling foxes but is about having fun.:)

Personally if people want to go fox hunting in red coats I see no reason to interfere.I saw no reason to ban the hunts because the percentage of foxes killed was minimal.I thought that those who voted against it did so for reasons of class or because they were totally fluffy about foxes,refusing to see them as vermin because they were not in anyway realistic about the plight of foxes as predators in the food chain that are in danger of over population in certain areas.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yep pretty much my thoughts on rural hunting, what is an issue imo is the amount of time Parliment has wasted over the years on this subject, is this country so perfect that our MP's have over 700 hours time free to debate it in the chamber and now after finally making a decision some of them seemingly want to put it back on the agenda, madness :mad:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Thanks for the clarification, and I agree with you entirely

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I said this at the time the ban came in, I live in London, but to me the countryside is better known to tha farmer, so therefore they should be allowed to shoot foxes that are on the land to protect livestock, and also fox hunts has been part of country life for decades - and l don't live anywhere near the countryside.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

How can you say that when a famous man once said :)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Not as cunning as
;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Fox hunting goes back centuries, and the countryside belongs to the farmers so leave it up to them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Mmmmmmm - interesting concept; let's deconstruct it, shall we?

Land-owning and having serfs goes back centuries, and the countryside belongs to the landed gentry, so leave it up to them.

Plague, rickets, high percentages of children dying under the age of five goes back for centuries, so let's continue that tradition.

Slavery, poorhouses, lack of proper sanitation, etc, etc, yaddy yaddy yah.

I am not bothered about fox hunting, but I am bothered about very poorly thought out propositions.;)

And on the point of foxy-loxy, an (imho) amusing advert - Auchtermuchty

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I used to work for a company that delivered to many addresses in the countryside, l have seen foxes and what they do, Farmers, wether they are snooty people or not, have a duty to protect there animals, as it is there livelyhood. In regards to fox hunts l had to face a blockaide of silly people blocking a fox hunt, in Ledbury, Glos, and was given police protection to get through, I cannot believe that people will get so heated up about a vermin problem that needs to be cut, foxes give a nasty bite.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

No need to repeat yourself we all understood first time, you think foxes are a pest and should be killed humanely but at the same time your humanity doesn't extend to rats, which I think is interesting, certainly more interesting than the rest of your origional post.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Depends on the rat surely?

Lew's rats are clean and safe to handle.Sewer rats and the usual wild ones are a source of disease and as such are vermin especially at the rate that they breed in the wild.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

i didn't say i thought fox's were pests ,to me they aren't, to farmers they possibly are my point if you read and understand is that if a pest like a fox is killing your chickens for example ,the most inefficient way of killing said fox/pest, is to get 20+hunters on horse back with 30+dogs to chase it through god knows how many miles of fields in the hope they may or may not catch it coursing injury to horses and dogs when a gun or a better fence would suffice.I i use rats as an example because if the hunters were hunting fox's for the benefit of the countryside i.e to controll a pest then they should feel obliged to do it for the numerous other pests that are prevalent in the countryside
there is only one reason why people would want to hunt a fox in the way they used to is because they enjoy it all other reasons are to justify the bloodlust they crave

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Nice use of emotive terminology, not really satisfying any bloodlust though, considering they rarely used to catch anything.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

So what's the point then? Surely they can achieve all they want (having a fun day out with lads/ladesses dressed up as idiots (that's a joke btw)) by chasing an artificially laid trail?

If it's about pest control, just get the bazookas out, and deal with the pest efficiently and humanely. If it's about a day out with your mates, find a humane passtime...

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You'd have to ask some one who participates or is a particular fan of it what the point is but I have heard said that only 2 members of the hunt actually see the kill as the rest have to stay well behind the hounds, so whatever the point is, doesn't sound like bloodlust to me.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I wasn't saying it was bloodlust. To be honest it sounds a lot more like a posh day out to me. Which is fine by me, provided they don't inflict needless suffering to animals. Anyone who claims pest control is the reason for having a fox ripped to bits by a pack of dogs with 20+ people on horseback in tow is just taking the proverbial. If they want their day out, fine. But do it in a humane way. If they want to control the fox population: do it in an efficient way. Just shoot the buggers, and make it as humane as possible.

It's not strange to suggest that needless suffering should be avoided when there is a need to kill an animal is it?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Ah more of the emotive terminology, needless suffering, ripped to pieces etc most people seem to accept that the fox is killed more or less instantly and research by the Oxford Uni suggests that the average time a fox actually spends being chased is around 15 mins, I wonder what the average time is for a fox to survive being riddled with buckshot, being hung up in a snare or enduring poison, in fact who is to say that hunting isn't preferable to being driven mad and biting at your own sores with mange.

I do agree though it does sound like a posh day out, which is why I suspect a lot of people have a problem with it.

When it comes to hunting I wonder why more people aren't concerned with hounds than the fox, after all thousands of healthy dogs are put down every year for no other reason than old age.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Its murder plain and simple, lets try this then the hunters should be chased and attacked and ripped apart by the dogs, that would be fun for me to watch.

Evil is all it is, there is now way to defend it at all, so please flame me if you wish and like been a killer.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Let's face it, a lot of humans just like killing & destroying things whether it's animals, each other, property or the environment. It's what we excel in, destruction. We must be inherently psychopathic with Lemming like tendencies.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I beg to differ - a small minority may have these tendencies, but I believe that the majority of humanity actually care for each other.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Why then have gallops across the countryside not taken the place of fox hunting? Would seem to me to be a better alternative and I am surprised no one has thought of a way of organising such an event.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

And so endeth the rational debate.............


Look, let's not kid ourselves. It is not about pest control.

It's about sport, a blood sport. It's also about a bloodsport that is, historically, undertaken by the so called upper classes.

That said, I still don't see anything wrong with it.

You can't chase after hares and rabbits with dogs anymore, dogs have chased after rabbits for thousands of years, rabbits have evolved to outrun predators, they don't always outrun them but our government think rabbits need a helping hand.

Your probably still allowed to snare a rabbit and let it die in agony though.

And of course there is always fishing, I'm amazed that we're still allowed to do that.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Don't know, would having a gallop support the local economies built up on the back of hunting, also you wouldn't need the hounds either. I think they have some sort of mock hunt anyway, drag hunting I believe it's called.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Is that where all the huntsman dress up like Danny La rue?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Possibly and your horse has to prance instead of gallop

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

There are a large number of stables locally and AFAIK none of them had any Hunt related activity so losing the hunting may not have had the huge impact those in favour would have us believe. The major impact would be on the hounds and their keepers as I could not imagine much happening to the "precious" horses.

In the grand scheme of things the decimation of the mining and steel industries had and still has a huge impact on areas of the country. Compared to this the loss of Hunting, one relatively small, non productive, unnecessary activity it pales into insignificance.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

In the grand scheme of things I don't think hunting is important at all, far, far from it and there is no denying that the job loss is in any way comparable to mining or steel however if your one of the 10 000 odd that makes their living from it I'd say it was pretty damn significant, in fact I still remember an MP on Question Times answer to a audience member that quoted that figure and how he had never done anything else work wise, her answer was tuff, great answer, wonder if she gives her constituents the same answer.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

So a steel workers livelihood is more important than a hound keepers?

Are you a labour voter by any chance?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I think it's about the scale of things...

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Careful, you're getting a little close to the sort of tawdry class rhetoric I'm sure you don't really subscribe to ... at least I hope you don't.

Nothing and nobody is insignificant, and we do well to remember that governments will always ultimately fail if they continually ignore problems that they consider too small to be worth their time.

Having said that, if hunting really is that insignificant it begs the question, why did this Labour Government dedicate such a vast amount of parliamentary time to banning it?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Ah, nothing like context eh? Clearly, the statement was about the economic significance of hunting being relatively small.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It's not clear at all. You seem to have ignored social significance. Both may equally be read in the post.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

In response to this?

I doubt it...

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

And so denying them of their livelihood is not a big issue? Nothing to concern ourselves with?

So at what level do you believe it becomes worthy of recognition?????

Should we set a sliding scale?

How about if it only affects less than a thousand then they can just go a whistle.

1000-5000 we listen sympathetically

over 5000 we'll become outraged.

Yes, that's fair.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I have to disagree there, I think a minority do care but in my 50 odd years life experience & observation I think the caring side in the majority is only skin deep. If modern civilisation collapsed we would all descend into anarchy very quickly IMO. The reality is it's a dog eat dog (or Fox ) world out there.