Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

From http://www.chad.co.uk/news/Mansfield...All.5443250.jp


A TEACHER at Mansfield's All Saints School has been arrested on suspicion of assaulting a 14-year-old boy on the school premises yesterday morning.
The pupil suffered a head injury in the attack, and is currently at Nottingham's Queen's Medical Centre (QMC), where his condition is described as 'very serious'.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Oh heck, that sounds bad.

Wonder what on earth happened there then.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

BBC report for it as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/8141581.stm

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Skys breaking news, says the teacher is being questioned for attempted murder now.

Sky says he has attacked two other pupils as well.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Yep the BBC is saying that now to - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/8142428.stm

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:I wonder what would drive a teacher to over react in such a desperate and uncontrolled fashion..?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Stupid chavvy kids, taking the biscuit no doubt or he's just a nut job

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Probably a bit of both.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Something is not quite right here, it's one of them schools where children come into from miles away, they come from as far as Newark which is 23 miles away from Mansfield. The school has got a good name with OFSTED, trying to get your child into that school is a miracle.

The Teacher involved has been at the school for a number of years.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

. . . and is highly respected by many of the pupils. (i have just been told that by a pupil at the school).

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I was talking to Kev the caretaker + security guard last night about the inncident, he was gutted because he knew the pupil and the teacher involved.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Hmm I see the point - question is where did the source of this "aqusation" come from?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

It's well known around our area that you can't get your kids into All Saints, they'd sooner bring children in from other areas of Nottinghamshire than take children in that are in the catchment area. Some children come from as far away as Lincoln to go to All Saints in Mansfield.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Apparently the lad was messing about with some rulers, Harvey told him to stop a number of times the kid was verbally abusive to the teacher telling him to F off among other things and the teacher hit him on the head with a metal weight. As for the other 2 kids I havnt heard anything about them. Harvey is a well respected and liked teacher at All Saints and has not long returned back to work after suffering a stroke.

Stepson who attends All Saints just told me.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Like I said Al something is not right here, he sounds like a teacher you'd be glad to take a lesson with. Sounds like the kid rubbed him up the wrong way.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

"after suffering a stroke."

If that's the case then perhaps you're looking at a possible cause of non-typical behaviour from the teacher.

Stroke = brain damage

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I agree with Nidge, The biggest problem in schools today, is that children can do what they like in class, as teachers cannot punish them, but it appears that this teacher lost his cool, and this is what happens.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

They need to bring the cane back into School Arthur, it never did me and the hundreds of thousands of others who attended schools before the cane was banned.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

That's just round the corner from where I used to live on Titchfield Street (Nidge will know where that is). There was also a murder on Deven Drive which is, again, just around the corner from that school and across from my old street.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

If this was caused by a teacher, who has lost his rag, then school punishment has to be brought back, l personnally know two teachers, where l live that have been assualted with weapons, and they have just been told not to fight back, by the Head via the local authority, or they will be suspended.

I went to Christopher Wren school, in Sheperds Bush, London, And if you misbehaved in school, you got punished by the slipper in front of the whole school, and it did not do me any harm, what it did do, was respect my elders.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Fear is not the same as respect..

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Your right it isnt, but if the little scrote fears retribution for his actions then there is less chance of him being an obnoxious, verbally abusive little smeggy git, respect doesnt come into it, string the little gits up by their ankles till they wet themselves, sod the PC brigade. Its about time kids learnt the way we did before all this PC crap came about.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I'm sure the pupil will be described as a perfect little angel, they always are ...... :erm:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

It's one way of thinking, I can't really be bothered to talk about punishment in schools. Expect to say it's odd to use a news story about a teacher beating a kid to to point of attempted murder to advocate the cane. More pointing out that you don't gain respect by hitting people, and children are less likely to know what they have done wrong to deserve punishment and will more likely feel a sense of injustice.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I'm sorry for both the Teacher and the Boy. Something like this has been waiting to happen. I used to do Electrical Maintenance in schools and couldn't believe what Teachers have to put up with. The kids think they can get away with anything. The PC brigade haven't done the teachers or the pupils any favours at all. They have ruined the childrens education. I used to see classes with bedlam going on and the teachers walking out because there was no control. Sometimes the Police had to be called to restore some order. This is covered up by the schools if they possibly can because of a fear they could be shut down.
I have friends who are/were teachers. Three I know have given the job up before it destroy's their health too much. This incident should never have happened,but there is no avoiding it whilst the kids are misbehaving the way they are.
The Teacher, his career in the gutter the pupil badly injured. They'll still find some excuse so PC isn't to blame-crazy.
George.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Sounds to me like a classic case of been pushed too far, kids are so disrepectful today, I agree teachers should be able to smack a kid lightly, but hitting them with a metal object is way over the top, I bet that kid won't do it again to the teacher if he still kept his job (I know he won't)

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Since he is still in a serious condition in hospital he may not get the chance..:dozey:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I must say I hope the kid is okay and brian damaged

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I think you may have missed the word "not" out (before "brain").

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

This is really shocking. I suppose we've become used to pupils attacking each other and their teachers, but not a teacher seriously assaulting a pupil.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

And taught you to slightly overdo it on the commas ;)

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

While sad this does not surprise me infact the only surprise here is that it hasn't hapeened before and more often. Right now we have a generations of kids growing up with no boundaries because parents have no powers anymore to discipline neither do the schools and the police have little effective power over some of them as well.

Yes there are some bad parents blah blah blah but the majority are good parents with no real way to enforce on there kids rules when the kids push it as they always do in their teens and we are going to reap the rewards of this in years to come.

I had the cane when i was a kid i think i might have been one of the last to have it and can state right now it didn't do me any harm physically or psychologically what it did teach me was where the line was and what happened when i crossed it a valuable lesson that none of todays kids have so is it any wonder they feel contempt for us.

Like it or not respect comes first from acknowledging strength and we as adults have none anymore so we deserve little respect.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Other than it made you advocate the use of weapons on children? :)

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Not as a general rule only when nothing else works which was how it was used at the school where i got it.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

But you do advocate the use of weapons against children?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

They know that they are un-touchable, two 7-8 year olds put the window through at work and with feigned shock said "ooooh i wonder who threw these two rocks at that window?" and walked off laughing, had to ring police for insurance purposes and told the pc on the other end and he said it's the same everywhere.

I say lets send em on holiday because they are bored/misunderstood!!!:rolleyes:
yup that will work.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Does anyone have information this kid was being unruly?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

As a last resort amongst the very small group of kids who will not understand anything else yes i do Russ. We do have to remember that by and large the vast majority of kds are not and will never be a problem but that small minority that are hell bent on trouble for whatever reason i believe anyone that has to deal with them should have a full arsenal to work with rather then being hamstrung as we are right now.

Caning any child is not something i like but i realise in some cases it is the only way you will get through to some kids, and having been one of those kids who took all the softly softly and loved it playing silly games that those who implement it were suckers for force was what was needed with me and it is the same today.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Read my earlier post, yes he was being unruly and he was goading the teacher.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Stop trying to twist it Russ.

and yes, I believe in the use of the cane.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

So being goaded is an excuse to beat the crap out of a child?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

No Paul I'm not stopping anything. Last time I checked we're all entitled to views on here. The point I'm making is those who say "I had the cane when I was younger and it didn't affect me" completely fail to see the irony when they say they advocate the use of caning children.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I'm not in favour of caning or belting of children like there was previously. However, I do think that as an ultimate deterent the head teacher or rector should be allowed. The use of this would have to carefully monitored and be employed only after all other attempts at behaviour correction have failed.

I would hope that it would never be used but may be a useful tool for stressed teachers to threaten the continually unruly students with.

A half an hour waiting outside the rectors office wondering whether a decision to cane or not is being debated might do more to concentrate some minds than any other discipline currently available to teachers.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

As you know full and well Russ i do not and am not advocate the use of corporal punishment willy nilly or as a general rule of dealing with any problem. But i do advocate it's use when all other reasonable avenues have been explored and proved to be useless which happens with some kids.

Reality is that we do have a very destructive small core of kids these days for whatever reason and in dealing with those more extreme measures then currently available are needed and should be there to be used by those in proper authority. If this was a one off incident then of course the teacher had no right to react in the way he did and even if it happened a few times before this incident i am sure there are other resolutions.

Fact is we know nothing right now about this young man or how he normally behaves but we do seem to have a well liked and respected teacher that appears to have completely gone off at the deep end. Maybe if for those persistent trouble makers there was a cane or a slipper we wouldn't have teachers reaching the end of their rope.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

If someone were goading me, taking the urine and swearing at me regardless if they are 14 or 40 they would get a slap up the side of the head from me.

There was none or very little abusive behaviour towards teachers 25 or more years ago, get rid of discipline and this is the result unruly kids who have no respect for themselves, their parents, teachers, police or even people walking down the street.

Its about time we got back to the old ways of dealing with oiks.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Stop trying to twist my words as well.

I never said you cannot have a view (in fact, you didnt even express a view, so your comment is meaninless anyway, you asked a question)

You are quite deliberatly wording things trying to make out that people who support the use of the cane are somehow out to commit attempted murder or something.

What irony btw ? Obviously we are all missing it.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

But you are not a teacher, with a duty of care towards the children in your charge. Whilst I was at school, the tawse/cane was used, but no one ever ended up in hospital with serious injuries due to it.

I find it difficult to comment on the incident, as not enough data seems to be available, and the only firm information is that a 14 year old has suffered serious injuries and is in hospital, two other pupils were hurt, and a teacher has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

My stepson goes to that school so I am in a position where I am hearing more than what is being discussed here and what is available on news sites\tv.

Your right I am not a teacher, but it goes to show that kids today dont respect their teachers, there are a lot of teachers who wont or dont say anything to the kids or to other staff members for fear of the lies that could and do issue from the mouths of those kids who are being arsey. like "he tried to touch me up" "he tried to hit me" "he hit me" 2he swore at me" etc.

Whats going to happen when the teachers say "we have had enough" and refuse to teach, whats going to happen then?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Majority of teachers aren't going to say that just like the majority of children aren't they way you described above.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Paranoia on a friday afternoon eh? ;)

Impressive conjecture but quite wrong.

You said 'attempted murder', not me. The point I'm making is those who say things like "I had the cane and it never did me any harm" are usually the ones who advocate that punishment today. So the irony (quite surprised I have to point it out to you) is that they say it did them no harm however they seem happy for children to be hit with objects as punishment in schools.

If anyone hits my daughter (teacher or otherwise) they better believer they're in a whole world of trouble. I firmly believe that punishment is for the parents only. But if they use a weapon or an object, they've just turned up the heat 100%.

If people are in favour of corporal punishment for kids then that's one thing but if they're in favour of a cane/ruler/book or any other object/weapon then i really have to questions that person's supposed rational thinking.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Well it's no use bewailing the loss of the cane in school.

That horse has bolted and the stable door is firmly locked.

Society is going to have to deal with the consequences of children who have no respect for authority until it's too late and they have been expelled with a ruined and botched education trying to find a job(if they can be bothered) without the necessary qualifications.

I take comfort from the fact that most children do turn out ok..and do become pretty good adults.:)

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

He's been charged with attempted murder.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/8145352.stm

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

:tu:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

From what l have read about the teacher, he was a nice guy, BUT what we have here is, that the teachers no longer have control over the kids, that we had when we were young.

Teachers from years ago were allowed to punish kids, if they were bad, and this is when you you got the cane or the slipper. Once they are in school, they are under the guidance of the school, so therefore if the kids are bad, the aschool should be allowed within reason to punish them.

Teachers can snap, but it takes a lot of pressure to make it go bang. Its the do gooders that say no, you can't smack kids, absolutely cobblers.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

But then your daughter probably wouldn't do anything which would justify the use of corporal punishment presumably, and therefore you would understandably be angry if anyone hit her.

I'm perfectly rational, but some children are never going to respond to rational arguments against bad behaviour. I can't see any alternative to the cane for them. I'm fed up with mine and other people's children's education being interrupted by the badly behaved.

Just today, one of my children told me that two year 9 children got dangerously drunk in the school's grounds, and had to be restrained by the police, with one getting a dislocated knee in the process. There are badly behaved children in every one of his classes. And this is in a school described as 'outstanding' by Ofsted. What hope is there for the education of children in schools rated as 'inadequate'?

:rolleyes:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Nope, still missing the irony here. :)

What ? So teachers/police whatever should not be allowed to punish your child. God help the world if that ever became reality. :erm:

There you go again with the "weapon". A cane is not a weapon in this context. A knife, a gun yes, a cane, no - (and no, im not suggesting we shoot them (just yet anyway ;)).

Weapon again ?? Anyway, feel free to question it, I question the thinking of someone who believes only parents can punish children. I wonder if we had a vote, would the majority be in favour or against the cane/ruler. :cool:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

So RussB, l have to totally disagree with you, This is the biggest problem in society today, some parents WON'T punish there kids in fear of being prosecuted by there own kids, this is how bloody stupid this country is.

Once kids are in school, they are down to the school, when kids apply to a school, the parents should be told that children will be reasonably punished for wrong doing on school premises on on the boundaries, when was the last time, you got kids swearing at you in the street or misbehaving outside your house, they are doing it all over, this is why they get asbo's.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

It's lost on you then.

I did not say they shouldn't allowed to punish her.

If it's not a weapon, why were they and rulers etc used in schools?

And you're free to question it all you want. But if anyone else lays a finger on a child of mine, things will get pretty heated. I'm not interested in what 'the majority' want. The Sun is the most popular paper in the country, that doesn't mean it contains 1 gram of common sense.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Simple solution here, bring back the cane and a gold old slap round the earhole. I've said it a thousand times and I'll keep saying it, the PC brigade have ruined this country with their "lets treat them with cotton gloves attitude". It's about time the cotten gloves were took off and give them a good crack round the side of the head if they step out of line.


Bring back the cane before all the schools fall into anarchy.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Were kids all perfectly well behaved when the cane was used? Was there no youth crime at all?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I don't think the cane is the answer, a lot of kids get beaten at home and it doesn't improve their behaviour. Problem is imo that it's ok to be a loser, cool infact and these losers are exactly the same morons stabbing people because they didn't show them any respect, it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Sadly Russ to many people share a similar opinion, hence parents assulting teachers because little Johnny had a detention, the school is responsible for them from 8 till 3 or whenever time and whatever punishments deemed legally appropriate should suffice, instead of being on the schools side some parents are on the kids and think nothing of shouting the odds regardless of what the little blighter has done.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I've never suggested that kids shouldn't be punished. Detention, lines, all that (if it works) is fine by be. If it's after-school detention I'd rather be told about it first in case arrangements have been made but all the traditional punishments I'm in favour of, including the 'hairdrier' treatment. But if anyone is going to lay a finger on my child as punishment it should be me or her mother. Just as I would never do that sort of thing to someone else's child, no-one does it to mine.

I think there should be increased dialogue between the parents and schools so they know exactly what is going on. I'm not 'soflt-softly' liberal but physical punishment IMO is a parents' duty only.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

And it's also absolute cobblers to compare the attempted murder of a 14 year old with "smacking"; what's your next escalation point if the child is cheeky again - firebomb their house? :dozey:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I never said you did say they shouldn't be punished, I said your attitude was part of the problem, if the child needs disciplining that's the end of it imo, if you made arrangements tough, same as if little Johhny has a sore bum, they should have behaved.

I am sure they have tried the 'increased dialogue' approach, infact I can imagine teachers get very frustrated by some parents lack of concern about their childrens behaviour or welfare in general.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

If I've made arrangements for her to go to the dentist or doctor, they're taking priority.

There won't be any lack of concern from me.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

The cane might work on the silly kids but it wont work on the worst who don't care about their actions.

Will more kids start bunking off?

The cane can be abused by a few teachers who shouldn't be in the job and than there's the other few who are having a bad day and why not get rid of that stress by a good session of caning.

Society has changed and caning wont work as it might before.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I am sure any child would be grateful any behaviour problems weren't nipped in the bud for the sake a routine check up...

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

If it was a general routine check-up then that's different. But if an extraction or a hospital appointment had been booked, they would get priority then.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

If it were hospital or extraction, would they have even been in school to get in trouble?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I don't see why not - the twice I had extraction in my early teens the appointments were after school.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Teachers got more respect and lessons were quieter.I can remember it soo well.Also if the same few were being caned and not apparently learning any lesson..the rest of us were even if it was not to back chat a teacher.We also learned how NOT to get caned...obey the rules.

However in my school only the head and deputy head administered the cane..and as I've said many times it was done in public..No one was in danger of being beaten on the sly.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

EVERYONE, is getting hot under the collar over this matter of 'child punishment'.

Every parent has a responsibility for there kids, when there kids go out of the house, they worry themself sick over what will happen, They go to school, some kids cause havoc and some don't, kids cause havoc by stealing, causing aggro on the streets, go before a court, get ASBO's, what we should do, if parents won't let schools deal with the problem within the time of school hours, IF a teacher gets assualted on school grounds or even outside, then the parents get taken to court its that simple for the assualt. I get really fed up to the back teeth, when people say that kids should be treated with kid gloves, they should not be smacked, this why there are rowdy kids terrorising housing estates, shopping centres, OAP's scared to go out or vulnerable people tec. Getting a clout from the teacher, in my day was a good thing, as when l told my parents, they gave me another clout and said ' you must have deserved it, and that was that.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Just as a matter of law, and I think I may be wrong but just for clarification.

Attempted murder, I was always under the impression that to murder or try to murder someone then that is a pre-meditated act where as assault in a heat of the moment scenario is more along the lines of ABH or GBH & if someone dies from a heat of the moment assault then its manslaughter. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

So what is the answer? Bad parenting has been around for as long as there have been parents - a lot of kids have been beaten at home. It didn't mean they behaved badly in schools.

I feel sorry for badly treated children, but not all of them disrupt other children's education. I'd like to see the disruptive helped, for their own sake's and everyone else's, but a solution does need to be found. Maintaining the status quo is not an option when the education of too many non-disruptive children is suffering along with all the knock-on effects.

Maggy J is right though, corporal punishment is finished in schools, and probably every where else before too much longer.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Murder is a deliberate act, Manslaughter can be classed under many different acts, but in this case, it could be classed as manslaughter under a mental problem, which leads in many different ways.

I believe ' dimished responsibility' can be classed as well, l do feel for both parties, as we don't know exactly what happened, we should not be judge and jury in this matter, I am almost certain, the press will dig up some crap on both people over the next couple of days, My thoughts are with both parties, as we don't know why, but some poor kid is very ill.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

As a former pupil of Mr Harvey's, I cannot emphasise enough how unlike him this is. He taught me A-level physics 5 years ago, and he was the most thoughtful, kind and generous teacher out of them all. All I can say is the child must have really wound him up and been a cheeky ****.

I do hope that his 20 years of service and all the comments about his quite obvious genuine and kind personality will help in court tomorrow.

My thoughts are with you Peter Harvey.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Nice to hear from an ex pupil of his.

Why not set a poll up someone?

I am sure we did caning on another thread a short while ago.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I do love this attitude of "i will be the one that hits my kid no one else" yes great now you go do it and when they reach a certain age and mingle with some of the little darlings that exist they will learn that if you touch them they can have you done for it. This is the problem there is no real way for a parent to stop a child from doing something bad if that child feels they are cooler doing it then not.

We do have a problem with certain parents but also a problem in the influence those kids with the lousy parents are able to exert on larger numbers of otherwise well behaved kids. This has become a country of barrack room lawyers all knowing the little bit of the law that means they can do what the hell they want and thats the biggest problem.

Our legal system is a joke setup it seems to promote rather then deter bad behaviour hell i know some young adults with the attitude that bad behaviour is good because then they pay their on the spot fines and it helps the country i mean how screwed up do we need to get before someone does something.

We have made massive mistakes in the past that are really going to come back to haunt us and whatever you call those groups that have told us all things are better done their way the fact is we have a problem and right now no practical solution and it is going to get a lot lot worse before it gets better.

As far as i am concerned we better get used to more incidents like this because i think there are going to be many more and maybe then someone in power will wake up and start to seriously sort out this problem.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Nice to hear some good stories coming out about Mr Harvey, there's not alot coming out about the pupil.

---------- Post added at 04:07 ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 ----------

If the cane was in use we wouldn't be discussing this thread would we? Top and bottom of it is the do gooders and the PC brigade have killed this country when it comes to respect by children, even the coppers hands are tied when it comes to arresting children, the child can kick, spit and headbut the copper but they can't do a thing. We need to go back in time and teach them respect.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Imo the problem is the parents until we get them sorted we have no chance of turning the kids around

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Never ceases to amaze me that anyone ever thought, or still thinks, it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick.

Thank the Lord that it's illegal now. An otrageous and barbaric practice.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I think we would but we'd be blaming something else, because it's always someone else's fault. The do-gooders, the teachers, the parents, the government, foreigners, asylum seekers, Muslims etc.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I think the parents are the major part of the problem, but we've never been able to make parents good, so what can we do? The behaviour of an increasing number of children has been deteriorating for years, since the end of corporal punishment, and probably before that when the permisssive society first got a foothold in schools.

I'm 1000% against outrageous and barbaric practices everywhere, but I don't see corporal punishment as being that, provided it is done by a head teacher or head of year and their are restrictions on how it is administered. How would you maintain discipline in schools? The present system is simply not working, with outrageous, barbaric acts still being carried out unrestricted, and almost always, by children?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

What you're saying there is I don't think it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick, except if I personally feel it's justified and I'm afraid I cannot run with that.

All the cane does is show children that violence is the best way to get people to do as they say.

Would you accept an employer hitting staff with a big stick if they didn't perform well enough?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

So have you ever seen the cane administered in school?I'm guessing not.:rolleyes:

1-6 strokes of the cane on the palm of the hand.

Not CLOBBERING.:rolleyes:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Please don't put words into my mouth. I said exactly what I said, and it's all very well taking the moral high ground, but:

Quote:

I'm 1000% against outrageous and barbaric practices everywhere, but I don't see corporal punishment as being that, provided it is done by a head teacher or head of year and there are restrictions on how it is administered. How would you maintain discipline in schools? The present system is simply not working, with outrageous, barbaric acts still being carried out unrestricted, and almost always, by children?

Do you think it is a coincidence that uncontrolled violence inside and outside schools became more common with the decline in corporal punishment?

If a disruptive or abusive adult employee refused to listen to reason, I'd expect him or her to be sacked, not hit. I'd hope a disruptive or abusive child would listen to reason too, but when he or she doesn't what should be done?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

They get expelled which is far more damaging as it seriously affects their education in the longer term.

A few strokes of the cane on one hand or a succession of different schools because you cannot learn not to be disruptive or violent? :shrug:

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Though personally I think for the odd few a clobbering should be an option!

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I agree bring back the cane, kid’s need it as current forms of punishment in schools aren't working.

My partner works in a school and they follow the rule of positive discipline system.

Whereby 2 comments can be given in a planner if this continues they are given a 3rd comment and removed from the room and put in a room usually with either pupils they do not know or for example if they are year 7-8-9 they are put in a room with 6th formers.

The idea of this is to make them feel small and not funny in a room with a more mature approach.

If this does not work then they are given a 4th comment and moved to isolation where they work all day in a cubicle inside a cabin and have different breaks and lunch times to all the other kids.

This can go on for up to a week depending on what the child has done.

To get an on call which is when they are removed it’s usually a deputy head or a behaviour support worker someone of authority.

However most kids never get (4th) comment (isolation) because it looks bad on the school figures and are usually given a dressing down from the deputy head or head teacher.

More than not it doesn’t work kids are abusive in her school I have seen it myself over the course of 3 years I have known my partner she has been attacked had her car set alight for punishing a pupil and the school didn’t do anything about it as it was outside of school premises. Had her car spray painted with grass written on it for going to the police about a pupil attacking her.

Had nails put in her tires, threatened outside of school hours e.g. holidays and after work by pupils.

Most deputy heads and behaviour support workers try to be the pupil’s friend it doesn’t work and they won’t suspend kids because they loose 10k of funding for every child out of school.

So this happens in most schools just we/the public don't get to see this.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Would caning work for the worst though. I can see kids getting caned every day and this would make them rebel even more.

How many more kids will start bunking off if caning was introduced.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

sorry but thats just not the whole story IF we could be sure of exactly how and when it was used it possibly could be good BUT it was often used excessively and for no good reason


here it was used to hit children for daring to speak their own language ( welsh ) my dad can tell you of many injuries that needed attention from the use of the cane

i was i school in the last few years of its use and i often saw the same ones sent for it often because the teacher picked on them often and others who did do things wrong who still did things wrong

the cane would not solve the problems

getting teachers who make learning fun is the best way to improve things ;)

as to this case from what i have read it may just be a case of a teacher who may have needed more recovery time and or more assistance whether wanted or not in his way back into the class room

hitting non consenting people of any age should never be condoned unless its in self defence or defence of others

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

Well things are no better discipline wise than when I was in school and we were caned...In fact they are worse.

However as I said earlier in this thread it's too late.Caning has gone for good.It won't be returning so it's a moot point to argue about it.

I also said I take comfort in that most children turn out to be decent human beings and even some of those that cause most of the trouble may well turn themselves around eventually.

The problem with the present system is it is much more damaging to disruptive children in the long run.They run the gamut of the low level punishment of detention,isolation,inclusion up to suspension.Suspension can last from a day up a month or so.Eventually these accrue into months.This is all time away from a full time education.

Finally when their personal file is inches thick and they commit the sin that breaks the camel's back and here comes expulsion.More time away from education until another school can be found unless their parents win a reprieve until the next time.

If the child cannot mend their ways they may not survive the probationary period at a new school and it's back to no education while an alternative is sorted unless the original school will agree to take them back.

So time absent from full time education builds up..and the child is finding it harder and harder to keep up when they are in school so they take to bunking off for which they and possibly their parents will face further repercussions and they get further and further behind.GCSE results are bound to be disappointing under those conditions

But luckily that just applies to a small number of students.:tu:

In the meantime those who are decent hard-working students face continual disruption from the hard nuts and more staff are required to deal with those who are disruptive. But that's OK because no one gets hurt in the process.;)

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

most of that is down to schools not wanting to loose money

too many suspensions at the moment are not legal as they dont go through the proper channels which would get the child out of the school and still provide them with proper education

also they often go out of their way to avoid statementing kids which could lead to the child getting the extra help it may need in education which would likely improve their behaviour because they dont want to have to provide that help but prefers the in house non enforceable help which appears and disappears depending on their budget

in this case though it seems that it is more about the teacher maybe not getting enough support coming back from an illness which most likely though it should have happened didn't for many reasons most likely the highest of them that he didn't think he needed it as most of us don't

i cant see that all the ex pupils would be so praise full of him if he wasn't good at his job and as the school seems to be very selective in its pupil roll i don't think that the pupil will be one of the ones who every one hates either

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

As a teacher yourself, what would you suggest as an alternative?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I haven't one as such..except that pushing everyone down the same academic route is wrong and a more vocational based education system/qualifications would benefit everyone.We did have such a system except it meant children were separated into Grammar,Secondary Moderns and Technical schools via the 11 plus.This was a bit too decisive and unfair(as personal choice was put to one side)and thus the whole system was changed to the Comprehensive system.

All well and good but they somehow forgot that not everyone is academically inclined and more or less did away with vocational education.

The lack of certain skills in our workforce has come about as a consequence and we have a lot of people with media studies degrees... :(

I was looking forward to the governments new initiative to provide more vocational education for 18-25 year olds but I'm wondering how the present recession will sit with it now..finances will be a problem.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

It is all too easy to constantly put the blame on bad parents but in my experience it isn't bad parenting that is too blame it is the system everyone is forced to go through. We are statistic obsessed in this country and thats ok but if there is a problem it is better to sweep it under any carpet then address it in the current enviroment.

I agree with Maggy it is wrong to insist all go the academic route as that simply doesn't suit some and they become distanced from the system through a feeling of personal isolation that isn't helped by being punished with a physical isolation.

I would love to see a system whereby academic study by and large ended at secondary level and the upper level was used to give kids a vocational training of sorts so they leave school at least partly qualified to do a job they choose.

I blame successive governments for this obsession with league tables and statistics and the way funding is decided on those and that is something that urgently needs to be scrapped getting back to good academic basics and a generation of kids that have some clear idea of why they are in school and the benfits of it as many right now don't see it.

We do also need to bring back something be it the cane or slipper or whatever else for those whose idea of a day at school is to cause as much trouble as they can having a usually disproportionate effect on all the other students in the school.

One thing we cannot do anymore is allow the system to put the blame elsewhere for it's failings as they do be it on bad parenting or add which since we have gone to this obsessed system has shot through the roof and get back to personal responsibility and the understanding of how things can affect you even when you don't think they will.

Thats what we have really lost in the UK personal responsibility it has become far too easy to blame someone or something else for your own shortcomings and that is eroding a lot of what was so good about this country.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

It was the backside at my first Grammar School. Only ever done by the Head Master, and always in the presence of another teacher, even in the old days.

My husbands school in Leeds did caning too, infact it was the one where all my kids had their secondry education. That school also did the wooden ruler on the tops of the hands, side of it as well, hurt more than flat on, he only ever got that.

The fear of either kept most folk in check.

As an ex pupil who went to a school where they were allowed to disipline, I feel it worked better than it does in the schools today.

Typed by a Mother of three children, who have only ever been disiplined by teachers by detention methods.

I like Russ do believe that punishment methods should be at home, but when we took everythng away from the teachers the school behaviour did become worse.

Its the fear of something that usually keeps people in check, not nowadays though, as we live in a way different world, than we did in my school days

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

For most that is what this is about it is not a hankering for a caning epidemic in our schools it is the real threat that it could happen. Also that would also aid many parents in the home with kids but you really are chancing it these days even threatening to touch your child in that way. You cannot take away all the ways then moan when things go pear shaped and thats what is happening now and some people seem happy to look about for the scapegoat rather then facing that unpleasant fact.

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

I'm sure it was easier when middle schools were around?

Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 

But would you give them a slap with a 2 kilo steel weight?
How do you know he was goading the the teacher etc?