Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

They kept this quiet!

http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/p...8879&highlight=

Virgin Media and Universal Music today unveiled plans for a ground-breaking digital music service designed to bring about a rapid and permanent change in the way UK consumers buy and listen to music.

The service -- a world first -- will enable any Virgin Media broadband customer to both stream and download as many music tracks and albums as they want from Universal Music's entire catalog, in return for a great-value monthly subscription fee. Downloaded music will be theirs to keep permanently and to store on any MP3 compatible device. An "entry level" offer will also be available for customers who download music regularly, but may not want an unlimited service.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

If its only an extra £5 per month i can see it going well. anymore than that in the current climate i think people will stick to the free/illegal stuff.

I'm sure VM Bum-Buddy the BPI will be happy! But i'm 99% all this music will count towards your daily STM

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

"This will involve implementing a range of different strategies to educate file sharers about online piracy and to raise awareness of legal alternatives. They include, as a last resort for persistent offenders, a temporary suspension of internet access. No customers will be permanently disconnected and the process will not depend on network monitoring or interception of customer traffic by Virgin Media. "

Sound very intresting!

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Which the illegal stuff does anyway - so what is the difference?

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

This begs more questions than it answers...

Will it count towards STM?
Will the music be wrapped in DRM to prevent me transferring it to my MP3 player, Minidisc Player (yes, actually have one, and prefer it to my MP3 player for sound quality).
Will the music be wrapped in DRM to cause it to "expire" like some services do?
etc.
etc.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Probably

Read the press release - specifically this bit:

Downloaded music will be theirs to keep permanently and to store on any MP3 compatible device.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

To be pedantic, I can store anything on my MP3 compatible device - doesn't necessarily mean I can play it :D

Ducks down and walks off...

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I wonder if they will watermark it in some way, so if it finds its way onto any of the file-sharing networks they can tell who put it there.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Probably, but then I bet the ones you download from places like Amazon and 7Digital also have that in

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

If it hosted internal then it shouldn't, Like V-stuff its internal so should not count towards your limit but it does!

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

What from people seem to be saying V Stuff isn't hosted internally - but don't quote me on that

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

From the VM Newsgroups

"VStuff is hard coded to only use a small portion of your return path
bandwidth. This to avoid users being traffic managed for using the service."

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

That is during STM hours - outside of it it uses the full bandwidth

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Surely you would need to download a stupid amount of MP3's per day for it to have any real impact on your STM limits.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Why pay a subscription fee, when you can listen to the universal catalogue and more with Spotify for free? :/

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Because you can't use Spotify on an MP3 player can you?

So at the moment you have to lug your PC everywhere

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Well if the price is right I think its a great idea. Have you been given any idea's when its going to launch and at how much Ben ? All I can see is "later this year".

---------- Post added at 13:40 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

So you can download your fav track's/albums and pop them on your phone/MP3 player or whatever you use :)

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Not a clue - this is a complete suprise. Especially after this back in January http://www.ispreview.co.uk/news/EkFkZlZypkxcNYMGHm.html

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

As well as a Internet connection :erm:

There are services to buy music legally, and services which have streaming, unlimited music. This service seems quite different in that you can download DRM free tracks, as much as you like! If priced correctly (and I see it being more than £10) it will be quite big!

But:

• They need a massive library of music, one label doesn't cut it
• Software needs to be good, I imagine it won't be!

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I think this is the right way forward imho the only thing I fear is they may put a stupid price tag on the subscription, Especially the Unlimited sub. Still I will be keeping my ear's open for anymore information as its definitely intrigued me.

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Agreed Damien. Looks like they are trying to get more labels onboard anyway.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

And so the complainers begin there bloody moaning :rolleyes:

If this service was free, no Stm and then they burnt it to disk for you for free, There would still be the numptys that would complain because they have nothing better to do with there boring lives other than moan and complain.

If you want to continue downloading from the usual places after this starts then don't come crying when the BPI take you to court. You will not have the excuse that there was no other ways to get it.

I for one will give it a try and see what its like. If i like it i will then continue to use it if i don't then i will not use it. That's my CHOICE same as i have the CHOICE of who i use for my broadband and if i use one that uses STM.

Let the service start before you moan about it.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Seems like the right thing to do to me. I don't really download music - I tend to listen to DAB radio streamed online instead. But if it were fairly reasonably priced - I may be tempted by it. Though probably not the unlimited product - possibly a mid-range one though. And as has previously been noted - the software needs to be quick and simple with no bloating.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

yes! i use spotify all the time.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Do you use spotify when you go on holiday abroad?

As I'm pretty sure, its already been noted that you need (a) a pc/laptop and (b) an internet connection for spotify to work?

IMHO its probably easier most of the time to drag an MP3 player around than it is a PC/Laptop

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Just because it can be kept forever, and played on "mp3 compatable devices", doesn't mean its not wrapped in DRM.

If its wrapped in DRM, then Sony's SonicStage cannot transcode it to a format compatable with my minidisc player, which is classed as an "mp3 compatable device", purely because sonicstage transcodes it on the fly before uploading it to the minidisc.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Yes it does.

But then you are having to convert the files to get them to play - which means the service you are downloading them from does not supply files that play on 'mp3 compatible devices'

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Spotify is being developed for mobile platforms : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALGPknOsiU

To be honest I prefer Spotify to having tons of MP3's as well as portable playlists. The sound quality tends to be better than tracks offered by legal download services too.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

In today's Guardian there is an article that says that once the service is live VM will block access to sites that promote illegal file-sharing and will block torrents as most of them are used for illegal purposes. Doesn't say if they will permit "legal" torrents.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Where does it say that?

Only thing I saw was this:

In addition Universal Music and Virgin Media say they will work together to protect the music company's intellectual property to "drive a material reduction in the unauthorised distribution of [Universal's] repertoire across Virgin Media's network".

This will include raising awareness of online piracy, legal downloading alternatives and, as a last resort for "persistent offenders", a temporary suspension of internet access. Suspension of service could be for as little as five minutes.

"No customers will be permanently disconnected and the process will not depend on network monitoring or interception of customer traffic by Virgin Media," the company said.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

£10-15 per month for this Cost of a couple of albums (Rising every year like your broadband does?) people who dont take up the offer and still download will be suspended? wth i bet your still have to pay for service while suspended too.

How exactly are they going to police the downloads people make? more uses of the phorm system? matching your downloads to ones more relevant?.

Lots of unanswed questions about it all imo guess thats transparency vm style for you.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

As it has yet to launch I'm sure all the technical questions will be answered later on

As for monitoring and suspention I suggest people read this http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...rter-broadband and realise it isn't just Virgin that are going to do it

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

If it is an affordable subscription I may sign up to it.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Hastily prepared document by ex-ntl cable man to boost media companies profits shock report at news at 10 tommorow night :P.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

http://www.techradar.com/news/intern...ic-deal-608374

Some nice nugets in there, like:

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Why is everyone so bloody cynical? As for hastily prepared, as I linked earlier Virgin have been trying to for something like this since last year

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

In the financial section of the Guardian. Says that users of the 50MB service should get the unlimited downloads as past of their package but other users will have to pay "no more than the cost of a couple of CD albums" extra each month.

Also says that users signing up will have to accept that VM will block their access to file-sharing sites.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Looks like virgins going down the pan then, use our services or get panned even though your paying our mega XXXLXXLLL price and now cant do anything with it as we block your downloads or suspend you.
Now pay some more please our power supplies need replacing up and down the country (btw we'll also data rape your connection just to monetise you the customer too).
People just wont pay for XXX speed they can never use.

In all seriousness though the government is totaly dumb, they are quick to bail out fat cat bankers for no real return to the people, yet cant provide any resources to develop our broadband to a world class speed.
Now you have an ex media company boss publishing a report that gives media companies free reign to do what they like to milk people to pay for it.

really lol you cant make this stuff up tbh.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Got a link for that?

A piece on the BBC about it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8100394.stm

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

judging by that last post of yours - yes you can

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Which part did i get wrong then?

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Well

1) Virgin will not and do not block or suspend the service for legal downloads. What they are talking about in connection with this, as far I read it, is that if a download is verified as being illegal obtained then a notice would be given to cease doing so. If it continued then further action would be taken - which may involve temporary suspension of services

2)Any costs of maintenance is already covered by the subscription fee.

3)Please can you link to a confirmed plan for virgin to 'data mine' anyones connection

4)As for the 'free reign' I'm pretty sure what they are talking about is trying to identify those people that illegally download content. You seem quite upset that a company like Phorm could possible be breaking the law with their technology, but seem fine with people actually breaking the law by downloading stuff they haven't paid for

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Have a look at this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technolog...one_blink.html

Virgin isn't going to do anything new to detect illegal downloaders. It will continue to rely on the rights holders sending it lists of IP addresses that have been observed in torrent swarms. However, instead of simply sending out warning letters, as it has previously, it will now deploy an escalating range of sanctions against people whose IP repeatedly appears on the lists it receives. The maximum sanction will be temporary suspension of service.

This is all very unsatisfactory seeing as it is now well established that a claim of 'we got your IP' really doesn't prove anything.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

"RNS Number : 1994R Phorm Inc 27 April 2009

Phorm, Inc. ("Phorm" or the "Company") Apology from "New Media Age" Magazine

On Thursday 23rd April New Media Age published a factually incorrect article titled "Virgin Media steps away from Phorm as top sites opt out".

At 17.30 on Friday 24th April New Media Age published an apology, which reads: In nma (23 April), we published an article headlined "Virgin Media steps away from Phorm as top sites opt out".

The article incorrectly stated that Virgin Media was seeking alternatives and to distance itself from Phorm and wouldn't be proceeding with the contract it had entered into with the company.

We now accept that this is wrong and that Phorm's relationship with Virgin Media is unchanged. We have been asked to make clear that BT's contract with the company remains in place and its relationship with Phorm is unchanged. We are happy to set the record straight.

"

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I would gladly pay extra to my VM internet bill if i could play the MP3's on any device i choose, and if i could burn the tracks to a CD. From what i have read so far, it seems we probably will be able to do that.

The questions is, how much am i willing to pay? I am not prepared to pay more than £5-£10 per month for the service. Music isn't worth more than that. If they are talking about £15-£20, then they can ram their service right up their down pipe.

Streaming tracks with adverts, a-la Spotify, and downloading unlimited track for £5-£10 per month, seems fair and reasonable to me. For about the past 5 years, i have spent about £0 or there abouts on music. The music industry could have £120/year off of me, and all they need to do, is set a fair price (and ask me nicely).

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

That seems to be an apology to Phorm after they made a complaint

And Virgin Media's relationship with Phorm is clearly laid out here http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/webwise.php

Virgin Media has signed a preliminary agreement with Phorm to understand in more detail how this technology works but we have not yet decided if it will be introduced

So again I ask for a link where to has a confirmed plan for 'data mining'

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Heard alot of you saying £5-10 quid would be alright, yeah even i'd pay that; but then again I could just sign up to Spotify Premium (or even keep it free).

Also it's only Universal - quite a few artists, but not the whole world, compared to Spotify which has quite a bit, including Universal.

Cost wise, it will be £20/month, which is just under the cost of 'a couple of albums' a month.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Do you honestly think your going to get one. That would stand in the way of a good nonfactual RANT :)

Lets be honest news has been a bit slow on the Virgin media side, Let them all get in a feeding frenzy over this. Its fun to watch.

But don't expect this ranting frenzy to hit the high of the "lets report them for telling us we can download spider man off the net " :LOL:

And for those that don't remember that ranting thread here you go

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Will this be part of our standard broadband package:

• Will these downloads count towards download limits?
• Most of the heavy downloaders are collectors and not music fans, how heavy will these collectors hit this service in the hope of owning the whole Universal catalogue? (be the first, buy the 50Mb and hammer it, then cancel)
• Will these downloaders kill my bandwidth?
• With no DRM would it be legal to download some music and share it with another subscriber to this service?
• What bitrate, format options?

The heaviest downloaders don't listen to the music as fans, don't watch the films as buffs, don't use the software productivly. It's all about who has the biggest collection, who gets the release the quickest, who has a copy of the most expensive, who makes the rip and gets known worldwide.

It's the new sticker album collection, it's the new graffiti.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Don't know yet but doesn't seem like it
Quite likely
And I'm sure that has been factored into the agreements and the pricing
No more than they do at the moment
Unlikely as the agreement on download will be to you personally. If the other person wants a copy they can download it themselves
Don't know yet
What would be the point of downloading all the music if you weren't going to listen to it? You wouldn't be able to give it to anyone else legally. So all you get is a hard drive full of stuff you don't want

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Some must download the whole of the internet, I know i tried it :LOL:

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Like i said, it's all about collectors. It has nothing to do with real fans. I dare say most of the internet traffic is not 'real'.

School yard, who has the biggest collection of MP3s, they'll never listen to them all. Who is the first to find a copy of the latest album/film. Who makes the first rip themselves and tags it and how many people download it, how far around the world has it gone. (like virus writers). If a collector has rare downloads etc. he/she could trade with friends.

Legitimate fans buy the media because they want the quality. They want the package. They want the uncompressed surround sound HD movie. They won't use this service. They'll use the free ones for background music.

Middle of the road music listeners and film viewers may use this service, they don't care about 128k background music quality or they have their DVD player hooked up to the biggest plasma they could afford via scart or composite. The aren't the most Tech Savvy and they probably bought and IPod without considering sound quality.

The collectors, internet graffiti writers never gave a damn about legalities anyway and still won't. One or 2 may use this service to grab a massive collection fast, but they'll just share it anyway via other means.

If Walmart charged an entrance fee and everything was free there'd be loads of folks who raped the store of all it's good rather than popping back when they needed someting. Just cus they can...................

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Spotify hardly has any music anyway, since the big labels don't have the quality music normally, it's all old recordings and crossover.
Yes but you can remove it with a tag editor.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Just thought I'd add a quick plug for EMusic, since it mainly seems to exist under the radar but seems to be what quite a few people are asking for.

It's got a huge amount of non-mainstream music (or non-crap as I see it) for about £2 an album, but the most important point to me is the extra effort they put in to hiring proper music journalists to write loads of reviews. You can spend ages on the site following official and customer reviews, taking journeys through sub-genres.

And best of all it's all DRM-free. It is a subscription based service with a set number of downloads rather than an unlimited service but then realistically how many new albums can you give a decent listen to every month, plus I find choosing albums part of the fun of experiencing new music.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

So they won't use this service which will allow them to do whatever they like with the music forever and get as much of it as they wan't - but will use iTunes will allows someome to play it on a PC or an iPod and nothing else (barring the more expensive DRM free tracks) and will cost more to get the same amount of music

As the BBC points out though, a parent could subscribe to the service on behalf on the family, but the kids could then use it to download what they want onto their phones, MP3 players, iPods etc.

And if they do, they will get the other end of this which is the stick. As has been noted it is very likely that the MP3s will have a traceable watermark to tie it back to original customer.

They then won't have to prove how you shared it, the fact it got shared in the first place will be enough.

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

The watermark doesn't have to be in the tag - it could be embedded in the audio itself - it's not difficult to do

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

1) In answer to your earlier post how is any file i download to be verified and by whom and how its a bit scant on the details here for some reason.

2) Its about upgrading the network not running it 2 different things there.

3) you answered your own question in 4

4) Yeah i break the law downloading my paid for games through steam whats that im traffic shaped now my ping sucks more too thanks for the qos vm.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Well so far it seems to be the rights holder of the thing that has been illegally downloaded.

Obviously the full technical details of how that works have yet to be revealed

No they are not. You subscription pays for both

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I agree that a subscription based service is the way things need to go.
We need a one-box media solution, and a wireless media on the go solution.

Money should be made for music artists and film makers with the sale of media at a higher quality than can be had over the net. Uncompressed Blu-Ray, SACD/DVD-A/DTS-CD with too much data to share for those fans that want it. That is until broadband speeds catch up again. Then there's ticket sales.

It ain't what it used to be, the music business will no longer be a business. Studio time costs a bomb, nah I can do it at home with a 1000 pound PC. They're clinging onto ways of making money.

Tivo type TV viewing will mean we all miss out the ads too. There goes that revenue.

TV, Movies, MP3's, Radio will ALL be free under the subscription.
Quality will be paid for, the above is just advertisement for it.

Big music artists are a thing of the past. Home artists and internet stars are the future.
Then again stars will be a thing of the past too.

We're not there yet and these changes, this service won't make much difference.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

This is only the start of things to come. Like poster above TV and movies will end up doing something similar. Just look at the next PSP completely digital distribution. We will end up paying subscriptions for everything we want. TV providers like Virgin and Sky will have to adapt as you will end up just dealing with the content providers. It will all end up as IPTV. Anyways I will getting this when comes out!

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Virgin media dont need phorm to track what is being downloaded on their network. the operative word is computer their network. As we are all connected to Virgins Network to get our internet all they require are tools to they already possess to track network use by reading the logs/packet sniffers. These sort of tools give you bandwidth used, what sort of traffic is being used ip source ip destination etc etc.

Example :- http://lachniet.com/cheaplogging/

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Indeed - but Virgin have already stated in the press release:

No customers will be permanently disconnected and the process will not depend on network monitoring or interception of customer traffic by Virgin Media.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Being disconnected, temporarily or not I couldn't care less, at the arbitrary whim of a 3rd party is deeply concerning.

The product itself is an attractive proposal, however Virgin can shove the restrictions in the same place where 'Lord Carter' (he of 'I BS ntl shareholders' fame) can insert his farce of a report.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

none of these paid for download services will really take of until they include ALL music not just one companies catalogue

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Indeed and thats why (once again) the press release says:

Virgin Media is negotiating with other UK major and independent music labels and publishers to ensure it can offer a complete, compelling catalog by the time it launches.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

i will wait and see but that doesn't say ALL, "complete" can be as limited as their idea of unlimited just depends what their idea of complete is

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

At £20ish a month extra, on top of my VM costs, too expensive, not interested. Particularly when it will count towards my STM limits. Considering it will probably be "internal" bandwidth, as in not costing them peerage charges, it shouldn't be counted towards STM.

Now if they included say, x tracks a month with your subscription, then, I might be interested.

Overall, I think I will wait to see how this pans out, before deciding if I like the idea of this or not.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Over 3 Million tracks available to UK users (it may be a lot more, that's going on an old quote) with more added weekly, 90k just got added yesterday. Pretty much everything I've searched for has been available. Notable exceptions are Pink Floyd and The Beatles but I have everything by Floyd on CD already. They cover many independent labels including CD Baby and Rough Trade.

I can't ever imagine taking Virgin's offer up but I would subscribe to Spotify if it ever went subscription only. It's so much more elegant than downloading, legal or not.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

While I like spotify you arent comparing like for like. You 'stream' the music with this you in theory keep the music and stick it on your Ipod can you do this with Spotify?

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

No but for £240 a year, I could get bare albums from the shop in a Physical format, and you can get offers like 2 for £10.

And anyway, I'd like to directly support a band, not just a little cut of it.

Also, there is a Spotify app for iPhone/Android platforms coming out later this year, so no thank you Virgin Music!

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Sounds interesting, I am sure it has it's place, but personally I would still be buying bargain cd's having spent thousands on my hifi rig.

Spotify is quite an interesting site I have been looking at, whether I would subscribe to what VM is offering I am not so sure.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

For which you are going to have to pay - as it will for Spotify Premium only - so that is £120 a year. And then it will not allow you to do anything with those files apart from use them on the iPhone/Android phones.

And if you ever cancel the Spotify sub or it goes under, you will lose access to those files - just as you do with any other DRM file

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

True, but what about download limits?

I mean if a person subscribed to the service they could not phone VM and ask for a temporary halt on the direct debit because they have reached their download limit could they?

If " unlimited " really was " unlimited " as defined in the dictionary I could see a place for the idea.

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

What happens if you cancel your subscription to VM Ben ? or dare I say VM go under ? :erm:

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Well until they release the full T&Cs we won't know either way!

Er - they are MP3s so nothing - which is the whole point of why this is different to ANYTHING else (at the moment)

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

BenMcr on the hard sell again :D

---------- Post added at 10:06 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------

I have read it and there is nothing in it about suspension of services nor is that a final report - the full one is out today actually and will address this. If they do decide to run with mandatory suspension regimes I'm emigrating early ;)

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

If they get the pricing right on this it will pretty much sell itself

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Stones and glass houses, especially re: the BPI comment. - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...l#post34814646

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Well this is what the Guardian thinks: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...in-lord-carter

All ISPs will have to sign-up to a new warning letter regime which will be backed up by "technical measures" that will see the worst offenders have their connection speeds reduced sharply. Exactly how those measures will work and what standard of proof and appeals procedure will be needed, will be the job of the ISPs and content players to work out through the auspices of the "rights agency" – although that will not, however, be its name.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Yes but that's still similar to a naughty boy STM, not a temporary disconnection. However given the cretin whose name is on the report mandatory disconnection and public flogging wouldn't be a huge surprise.

In other news for those commenting on STM, STM is not a device to alleviate transit and peering capacity issues or save money there, it is to save money on local HFC network upgrades and CMTS hardware. Regardless of whether the traffic is on-net or not it still uses CMTS capacity and that's where the crunch point and most cost per Mbit is by a very long way.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Possibly.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/12467...ht_piracy.html

though I don't think this has been rolled out as yet.



---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

It does because mp3 decoders will not understand the DRM, and thus won't play the file.

So clearly it won't be DRM'd if the claim that it will play on any "mp3 compatable devices" is to be true.

A watermark, however, is not DRM.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

They why does someone sell a product that does just that?

http://www.musictrace.de/products/contentmark.en.htm

ContentMarkMP3 is a product for embedding watermarks in existing MP3 audio files. The format is not changed by the watermark, consequently the MP3 audio file still conforms with standards. After watermarking, the file can be played on any MP3 player and is accepted by any MP3 player software that also accepts the original MP3 file.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Indeed, my mistake. I changed the post to reflect my wrongness.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

This sounds good. Pay for one month, set up a site leecher to download their entire catalogue of music, then cancel subscription. Thousands of songs for a tenner or so, all above board and paid for.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

No guarantee that that would work? If you look at the way Amazon work - although you get MP3s the only way you can download them is using their software

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Once you get the MP3's, what can Amazon/Virgin do after?

DRM-Free as well, nothing can be done - but obviously there will probably be some sort of 'contract' for it.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Well nothing - unless they appear on P2P sites, in which case they will take you to court.

As linked to earlier you can watermark an MP3 on download with details of who downloaded it. So if that appears on the internet then Virgin could 100% prove the file came from you. How it came to be online wouldn't even matter

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Is this another coming soon promise or is there actually a date for this.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Will it be a DRM ridden service?

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Before Christmas 2009 - as it says in the Press Release

No they are MP3s - as strongly suggested in the Press Release and already discussed several times in the thread

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I do normally read all the thread before I post!
Honest! :p:

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I been given this some thought while reading this thread.

Could Virgin charge those to sign up who get it from there own source method. I have used a internet radio software which you purchase a contract yearly and permits you download songs you like.

Another thought is this why dont virgin run a P2p service which then has a centrally stored data which can be increased by partisipating companies artist and even tied with VOD online service so TV series and ultimately films go on it.

Anybody signing up will be able to share between its users these files but user will not be able to upload own stuff to to stop piracy issues.

People will be able download store this files on medium to watch wherever. So it would useful for those with media centre could put favourates stuff to take on holiday to watch. We could even have a way to watch your Virgin media tv package subscribed on the net like sky do. But this needs a new idea as an wifi setup in the country so you could use your internet service wherever in the country via virgin wifi hotspots.

If done properly this could open so much to its customers.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at with that. The service Virgin is launching apparently will allow both streaming AND downloads for the monthly fee

The service will be centrally stored as far as I can make out - I'm not sure what P2P would bring to the service that would be useful. The BBC recently dropped P2P because it was more trouble for most that it was worth.

As for TV series and Films, that is a whole different sector and issues completely

And exactly do you do that? With this service you can download what you like but you cannot upload anything. It is the only way to have any sort of control over the content

You seem to be going on about TV again - this service is only about music. It is a whole different ball game for the TV and Film industry

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Ah I am new to this so be kind to me lol! Well this site anyway! Now the point I have always raised is that all the time we get record companies, artists, etc. etc going on about illegal file sharing sites, BUT my valid point is that I download lots of Dance music etc. and a huge amount of the various mixes and remixes of some tracks are NEVER legally available as record companies decided what they will and will not make available to download or indeed buy on cd singles, even if you can find an outlet that sells them, BUT a lot of these mixes are freely available from file sharing sites so why oh why can companies not make all the various mixes that were originally produced by various remixers before the final track listing is decided available then people like myself would legally buy them, it often happens that various dance music stations like Kiss 100 and Gaydar play mixes that were legally made and listeners love them, BUT you cannot get these mixes you like as companies choose not to release them, please don't get me wrong, MOST of my music collection is 100% legally paid for but odd mixes have to be obtained elsewhere due to this non availability.
I welcome a Virgin download site, good idea but please Virgin, don't add DRM rights stuff, if you pay for a track you should be free to reasonably use it for what you want to. Thanks all.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

i think they would still have to show you intentional shared it to go after you for copyright damages the worst they could with out showing that intent would be civil for breach of contract if they put in their T&C's that you had to secure your computer and even that i suggest wouldn't get them much as you could point many breaches of highly secure systems and that you couldnt be held to have to reach the sort of standard where your computer was unbreachable

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I not sure that they would, but there is always the possibility that they could show that not only was the music a copy of the one you had downloaded, but it had come from your IP address, then I think they would have a pretty good case for that

One or the other may not be enough, but both together might very well be.
Well if you care to risk it when the service launches be my guest.

And you think if you were prosecuted for Copyright theft that they wouldn't have computer experts that could work out if your computer had been hacked or not?

---------- Post added at 01:27 ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 ----------

The issues surrounding releasing music on MP3 and the legal ramifications will have been poured over by the music business long before this.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Let's not do the BPI's dirty PR misinformation for them. There is no such thing as 'copyright theft'. You cannot steal someone's copyright.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Sorry Copyright Infringment and Offences - still carries up to 10 years in prison though

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

You are at the top end of a very long scale with that. To get any sort of jail term, you have to be found guilty in crown court of the criminal offence of making or dealing in items that infringe copyright ... basically what we used to call 'pirate videos', although these days that could be CDs or DVDs.

What the vast majority of p2p users are doing is the civil offence of copyright infringement. You cannot go to jail for that. If you are held liable for copyright infringement in the county court, the judge awards damages against you, in favour of the copyright owner. But in the case of p2p, that has never happened, except in a very small number of cases where the person accused of file-sharing has ignored their summons and has ended up with a default judgement against them.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

And thats fair enough if one or two copies of the files ended up online of course it wouldn't be worth prosecuting, or as you say a civil infringement

But, if you ended up sharing hundreds or thousands of files from the service, all linked to you - then it is likely to be a different story

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

Chris,

Copyright infringement can warrant a criminal offence - especially secondary infringements with regard to distribution.

From the Act.

Offences

107 Criminal liability for making or dealing with infringing articles, &c

(1) A person commits an offence who, without the licence of the copyright owner—
(a) makes for sale or hire, or
(b) imports into the United Kingdom otherwise than for his private and domestic use, or
(c) possesses in the course of a business with a view to committing any act infringing the copyright, or
(d) in the course of a business —
(i) sells or lets for hire, or
(ii) offers or exposes for sale or hire, or
(iii) exhibits in public, or
(iv) distributes, or
(e) distributes otherwise than in the course of a business to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the owner of the copyright,
an article which is, and which he knows or has reason to believe is, an infringing copy of a copyright work.

The penalties are 6 months and / or £5,000.00 fine - as per here. No "BPI dirty PR misinformation" required.

Re: Virgin Media to Launch World's First Unlimited Music Download Service
 

I know ... that's what I was alluding to when I said 'long scale'. At the bottom of it are the p2p people, at the top are the major-league money-making pirates, and somewhere in the middle are those who would be affected by your bold paragraph.

I'd be sceptical of anyone suggesting that p2p downloaders could find themselves on the receiving end of one of the Act's criminal sanctions though, because of the need (1) to prove beyond doubt that they actually did it and (2) to demonstrate prejudicial effect. A downloader isn't selling a direct physical alternative to the real thing. If you go down the Barras in Glasgow and buy a ripped off copy of GTA, there is something you can actually point to and say 'that represents a lost sale'. But it is well known that people download things online that they would never contemplate buying, simply due to their ready, cost-free online availability. It isn't the case that every downloaded copy of a game or movie represents a lost sale - despite those industries persistent attempts to quantify lost sales by simply putting the RRP value on every downloaded copy. If you can't quantify the extent of the effect on the copyright owner, to the standard of proof required in a criminal prosecution, then how can 'prejudicial effect' be shown?


And on the subject of industry misinformation, when I said 'dirty PR misinformation' what I meant was their persistence in the use of the term 'copyright theft' which does not exist as an offence.